My wife and are are approaching a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. We have the green light and are set to cross the intersection when from our right, comes a suicidal bicyclist. He's on the sidewalk, then into the cross walk, on the wrong side of the road, and going through a red light, and for that matter, a do not walk light for pedestrians. Cathy locked up the brakes, laid on the horn, gave him the stink eye, and used some sailor's language not fit for your tender ears, gentlemen. She couldn't have missed him by more than 6 inches. The dufus is lucky he's alive. Why is it that bicyclists think the rules of the road never apply to them?
Against the law here to ride on sidewalk. On the road, obey the rules like other vehicles.
Used to ride a bike a fair bit.
Seen DUI types and punks ride without a clue. Doesn't bother me when they turn into road pizza.
Having said that, doing everything right on a bike...........seems to annoy the hell out of a lot of car drivers. They can get aggressive/dangerous too.
What gets me..............folks riding in dark clothes, at night, no lights...........and just cutting here and there.
Fuggin deathwish.
Usually some idiot on way to stop n rob or liquor store.
The bicyclists I hate are the ones that can't ride single file but insist on riding two or three abreast so they can talk and socialize, acting as though it's their right to do so and the motorists are out of line.
The other day I saw one actually stop for a stop sign, a day later I saw one use hand signals for making a turn. Must be something in the water.
The worst of the worst are the racing bike types, they drive like they are racing everywhere they go and you just better look out for them.
Most adults on bicycles who are hobby or part time riders, or drunks who no longer have a driver's license, simple act worse than little children with no regard whatsoever for traffic laws.
If you are ever in an RV resort, heads up for the little old blue hairs on their tricycles. Terrifying.
My wife and are are approaching a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. We have the green light and are set to cross the intersection when from our right, comes a suicidal bicyclist. He's on the sidewalk, then into the cross walk, on the wrong side of the road, and going through a red light, and for that matter, a do not walk light for pedestrians. Cathy locked up the brakes, laid on the horn, gave him the stink eye, and used some sailor's language not fit for your tender ears, gentlemen. She couldn't have missed him by more than 6 inches. The dufus is lucky he's alive. Why is it that bicyclists think the rules of the road never apply to them?
Why is it that dumb fugking motorist attribute the actions of a few to a population as a whole?
The bicyclists I hate are the ones that can't ride single file but insist on riding two or three abreast so they can talk and socialize, acting as though it's their right to do so and the motorists are out of line.
What would be wrong with me riding 2-3 abreast in the right lane of this roadway in traffic conditions as shown?
Obey the rules of the road like everyone else and I'll do my best to give you room to ride...just that simple.
On what planet does everybody else obey the rules of the road? Without fail every time I go any where I see motorists break the law. Over the speed limit, no turn signal, slow rolling stop signs, slow rolling right turn on red, and the list goes on. I am fascinated that group of adults would expect one group of road users to abide by laws that they don't abide by themselves. When I bicycle, I break the law with regularity. When I do, it will either be to benefit the overall flow of traffic or it will have no impact on other road users.
My wife and are are approaching a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. We have the green light and are set to cross the intersection when from our right, comes a suicidal bicyclist. He's on the sidewalk, then into the cross walk, on the wrong side of the road, and going through a red light, and for that matter, a do not walk light for pedestrians. Cathy locked up the brakes, laid on the horn, gave him the stink eye, and used some sailor's language not fit for your tender ears, gentlemen. She couldn't have missed him by more than 6 inches. The dufus is lucky he's alive. Why is it that bicyclists think the rules of the road never apply to them?
Why is it that dumb fugking motorist attribute the actions of a few to a population as a whole?
I will say one good thing about the popularity of bicyclists.
My wife and are are approaching a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. We have the green light and are set to cross the intersection when from our right, comes a suicidal bicyclist. He's on the sidewalk, then into the cross walk, on the wrong side of the road, and going through a red light, and for that matter, a do not walk light for pedestrians. Cathy locked up the brakes, laid on the horn, gave him the stink eye, and used some sailor's language not fit for your tender ears, gentlemen. She couldn't have missed him by more than 6 inches. The dufus is lucky he's alive. Why is it that bicyclists think the rules of the road never apply to them?
Why is it that dumb fugking motorist attribute the actions of a few to a population as a whole?
I will say one good thing about the popularity of bicyclists.
Those bicycle lanes. Those are FUGKING AWESOME.
For realz.
I much prefer bike lanes to mingling in the main lanes of traffic. But I much prefer this kind of 45 MPH almost no traffic rural roadway to either.
That driver was a straight up cocgkhole. The riders were to the right of the fog line and not holding him up at all. In fact the only delay he experienced was in loading the engine up so he could roll his coal. I have seen videos of cyclists catching up with cundts like that. They typically aren't badasses when confronted. They seem to find a degree of humility all of a sudden.
On this one, oddly enough most are going pretty close to the speed limit. It's Ohio Creek Rd in Gunnison CO. It turns to gravel a bit further up the road and leads to a somewhat rough mountain pass. The only people that drive it are a few locals who are ranchers and tourists. I rode it last week and had maybe 15 cars pass me in about 20 miles. Sightlines are generally good, motorists are accustomed to seeing cyclists, there's rarely ever a delay in a motorist passing a bicyclist. It's a great example of how motorists and cyclists can exist in harmony. One time on the pictured ride I was climbing slowly up and around a blind bend when a couple trucks with horse trailers came up behind me. I just got off the road. We exchanged a friendly wave.
They have to. They never know when they're going to come around a bend and have a dumb bass bike in the road.
Nobody should ever outdrive their line of sight. If you do, you are the idiot. It could be a cow, a mail delivery truck, a broken down vehicle, a rockslide or any other number of obstacles around the blind bend. I am more than a little disappointed that I have to point this out to a driver that considers himself smart.
Nobody should ever outdrive their line of sight. If you do, you are the idiot. It could be a cow, a mail delivery truck, a broken down vehicle, a rockslide or any other number of obstacles around the blind bend. I am more than a little disappointed that I have to point this out to a driver that considers himself smart.
They have to. They never know when they're going to come around a bend and have a dumb bass bike in the road.
Nobody should ever outdrive their line of sight. If you do, you are the idiot. It could be a cow, a mail delivery truck, a broken down vehicle, a rockslide or any other number of obstacles around the blind bend. I am more than a little disappointed that I have to point this out to a driver that considers himself smart.
So a cow, a truck, a rock slide, and a bicyclist. One of these things is not like the others. Only one of these deliberately put itself in harm's way.
They have to. They never know when they're going to come around a bend and have a dumb bass bike in the road.
Nobody should ever outdrive their line of sight. If you do, you are the idiot. It could be a cow, a mail delivery truck, a broken down vehicle, a rockslide or any other number of obstacles around the blind bend. I am more than a little disappointed that I have to point this out to a driver that considers himself smart.
The bicyclists I hate are the ones that can't ride single file but insist on riding two or three abreast so they can talk and socialize, acting as though it's their right to do so and the motorists are out of line.
What would be wrong with me riding 2-3 abreast in the right lane of this roadway in traffic conditions as shown?
They have to. They never know when they're going to come around a bend and have a dumb bass bike in the road.
Nobody should ever outdrive their line of sight. If you do, you are the idiot. It could be a cow, a mail delivery truck, a broken down vehicle, a rockslide or any other number of obstacles around the blind bend. I am more than a little disappointed that I have to point this out to a driver that considers himself smart.
And I never implied I was smart.
I can certainly respect honest self-assessment.
Says the guy who compared his own intelligence to a rock slide.
Certain Liberal folks have been taught that if they are riding a bike , they are special because they're saving the planet. I used to ride bikes a lot, but I knew I would lose a fight with even a Yugo, so I was careful to avoid cars.
I am amazed at the number of people here who readily admit they don't have the emotional or intellectual faculties to safely and politely interact with other road users. I drive too. I never have had an issue at all safely or courteously interacting with law abiding cyclists.
I drive a very curvy road everyday. No shoulder, dips, rises, curves, trees blocking line of sight....It's an incredibly stupid road to try and ride a bike on.
One day I slowed to share that point of view with a few cyclists. They didn't seem receptive.
I rode for years, still like to fugg around on bikes, but can't fathom that level of idiocy. It's gonna really ruin my day if one of those dumbazzes goes under my truck.
I am amazed at the number of people here who readily admit they don't have the emotional or intellectual faculties to safely and politely interact with other road users. I drive too. I never have had an issue at all safely or courteously interacting with law abiding cyclists.
Your statement only affirms the average motorist's point of view.
My wife and are are approaching a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. We have the green light and are set to cross the intersection when from our right, comes a suicidal bicyclist. He's on the sidewalk, then into the cross walk, on the wrong side of the road, and going through a red light, and for that matter, a do not walk light for pedestrians. Cathy locked up the brakes, laid on the horn, gave him the stink eye, and used some sailor's language not fit for your tender ears, gentlemen. She couldn't have missed him by more than 6 inches. The dufus is lucky he's alive. Why is it that bicyclists think the rules of the road never apply to them?
Why is it that dumb fugking motorist attribute the actions of a few to a population as a whole?
Maybe because it was the ENTIRE pack of about 30 that ran the stop sign and forced the oncoming car to either head for the ditch, run over their asses, or come head on into my lane...... choosing the latter and forcing me into the ditch.................
And then there is my favorite........ when they don't like me being behind them at 20 MPH they will motion me around, on a double yellow, and a curve, going up a hill....................
....... and when you come into the cafe after your little run............ those pedal clips on the bottom of your shoes, or whateverthehell they are, combined with sweaty spandex really ruins my coffee..............
Other than that your probably a real nice bunch of guys to hang with.......................
I drive a very curvy road everyday. No shoulder, dips, rises, curves, trees blocking line of sight....It's an incredibly stupid road to try and ride a bike on.
One day I slowed to share that point of view with a few cyclists. They didn't seem receptive.
I rode for years, still like to fugg around on bikes, but can't fathom that level of idiocy. It's gonna really ruin my day if one of those dumbazzes goes under my truck.
Are you incapable of operating at speeds that allow you to react to things that may be around blind bends? If not, then it is you who is stupid. Your day will be ruined when the civil and possibly criminal proceedings follow.
My wife and are are approaching a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. We have the green light and are set to cross the intersection when from our right, comes a suicidal bicyclist. He's on the sidewalk, then into the cross walk, on the wrong side of the road, and going through a red light, and for that matter, a do not walk light for pedestrians. Cathy locked up the brakes, laid on the horn, gave him the stink eye, and used some sailor's language not fit for your tender ears, gentlemen. She couldn't have missed him by more than 6 inches. The dufus is lucky he's alive. Why is it that bicyclists think the rules of the road never apply to them?
Why is it that dumb fugking motorist attribute the actions of a few to a population as a whole?
And then there is my favorite........ when they don't like me being behind them at 20 MPH they will motion me around, on a double yellow, and a curve, going up a hill.................... .
If you are concerned about what might be around the bend, you certainly have a leg up on most of the mindless dolts speaking up in this thread.
Paul - The speed limit on this particular road is 35 mph. At 25 mph, in several spots, you would likely have a hard time avoiding a collision. At that speed or slower you would risk causing an accident with other vehicles.
There are roads that are simply not safe for bicyclists.
My wife and are are approaching a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. We have the green light and are set to cross the intersection when from our right, comes a suicidal bicyclist. He's on the sidewalk, then into the cross walk, on the wrong side of the road, and going through a red light, and for that matter, a do not walk light for pedestrians. Cathy locked up the brakes, laid on the horn, gave him the stink eye, and used some sailor's language not fit for your tender ears, gentlemen. She couldn't have missed him by more than 6 inches. The dufus is lucky he's alive. Why is it that bicyclists think the rules of the road never apply to them?
Have you been to a large city with the rental electric scooters? We were in Denver last week and those things were everywhere. They do about 15mph and are all over the place. A wonder more people don't get smashed on those things.
Paul - The speed limit on this particular road is 35 mph. At 25 mph, in several spots, you would likely have a hard time avoiding a collision. At that speed or slower you would risk causing an accident with other vehicles.
There are roads that are simply not safe for bicyclists.
If that were the case I'd slow my driving down so that I didn't outdrive my line of sight. My experience tells me there can be any number of hazards around a blind bend. Driveway entrances where someone may be pulling out. Mailboxes where a mail carrier is stopped. Stalled vehicles. Tractors. Fallen trees. Livestock. Wild animals. The list goes on. I have a choice as a motorist. Drive at a speed that allows me to react, or drive with negligence. I choose the former.
There's a certain psychology at play where people would find that funny and those same people would be ready to fight if someone did it to their loved ones in the theater parking lot. Some of it is a bully mentality, but I think the bulk of it is that somehow an encounter with someone on a bike is less than a human encounter. I generally have favorable interactions with motorists, and I think that has to do with the fact that I make myself as easy to get along with as possible. About 3 years ago around the fourth of July I dressed myself out in patriotic garb and did a 50 mile ride through the rural countryside. I had never had motorists go to greater lengths to engage respectfully. Wider than normal berths as they passed me. Scrubbing off more speed before passing me. Waiting more patiently than normal. Friendly waves as they passed by. Something about the patriotic attire humanized the encounter.
Paul - The speed limit on this particular road is 35 mph. At 25 mph, in several spots, you would likely have a hard time avoiding a collision. At that speed or slower you would risk causing an accident with other vehicles.
There are roads that are simply not safe for bicyclists.
If that were the case I'd slow my driving down so that I didn't outdrive my line of sight. My experience tells me there can be any number of hazards around a blind bend. Driveway entrances where someone may be pulling out. Mailboxes where a mail carrier is stopped. Stalled vehicles. Tractors. Fallen trees. Livestock. Wild animals. The list goes on. I have a choice as a motorist. Drive at a speed that allows me to react, or drive with negligence. I choose the former.
Exactly. Somebody dumps coal on me, with my asthma? They'll have to see if their bad ass truck driving punk ass can out run a 9mm.
You have asthma and bicycle up mountains?
Why not just backpack? Or take up running?
There are no mountains in Michigan. I bicycle because it's easier on my beat up body and I enjoy riding. BTW, like Paul Barnard, I always try to stay out of the way of cars while I ride. I don't like how the militant bicyclists choke up the roadways either. They make it difficult for those of us who are trying to enjoy a ride without having some late to work or just impatient azzholes try to kill me.
I learned early on at 10 years old to stay out of car's way. A lady swung wide onto the shoulder and launched me into the ditch and kept on going. Luckily the person who stopped knew the assailant and she was arrested and convicted. The dumb chunt actually said she just didn't like people on her road. Circa 1967
Paul - The speed limit on this particular road is 35 mph. At 25 mph, in several spots, you would likely have a hard time avoiding a collision. At that speed or slower you would risk causing an accident with other vehicles.
There are roads that are simply not safe for bicyclists.
If that were the case I'd slow my driving down so that I didn't outdrive my line of sight. My experience tells me there can be any number of hazards around a blind bend. Driveway entrances where someone may be pulling out. Mailboxes where a mail carrier is stopped. Stalled vehicles. Tractors. Fallen trees. Livestock. Wild animals. The list goes on. I have a choice as a motorist. Drive at a speed that allows me to react, or drive with negligence. I choose the former.
Bicycles and rabbits arent hazards to my truck..
Wrongful death and negligent injury lawsuits tend to be a hazard to the net worth. Assuming there is net worth. Most folks with that mindset ain't smart enough to have accumulated any, and I doubt my heirs want a doublewide with a mortgage on it.
Exactly. Somebody dumps coal on me, with my asthma? They'll have to see if their bad ass truck driving punk ass can out run a 9mm.
You have asthma and bicycle up mountains?
Why not just backpack? Or take up running?
There are no mountains in Michigan. I bicycle because it's easier on my beat up body and I enjoy riding. BTW, like Paul Barnard, I always try to stay out of the way of cars while I ride. I don't like how the militant bicyclists choke up the roadways either. They make it difficult for those of us who are trying to enjoy a ride without having some late to work or just impatient azzholes try to kill me.
I learned early on at 10 years old to stay out of car's way. A lady swung wide onto the shoulder and launched me into the ditch and kept on going. Luckily the person who stopped knew the assailant and she was arrested and convicted. The dumb chunt actually said she just didn't like people on her road. Circa 1967
I am more than accommodating of auto traffic. Both out of a sense of safety and courtesy. Sometimes motorists don't get why I do what I do though and become petulant.
Paul - The speed limit on this particular road is 35 mph. At 25 mph, in several spots, you would likely have a hard time avoiding a collision. At that speed or slower you would risk causing an accident with other vehicles.
There are roads that are simply not safe for bicyclists.
If that were the case I'd slow my driving down so that I didn't outdrive my line of sight. My experience tells me there can be any number of hazards around a blind bend. Driveway entrances where someone may be pulling out. Mailboxes where a mail carrier is stopped. Stalled vehicles. Tractors. Fallen trees. Livestock. Wild animals. The list goes on. I have a choice as a motorist. Drive at a speed that allows me to react, or drive with negligence. I choose the former.
Bicycles and rabbits arent hazards to my truck..
Wrongful death and negligent injury lawsuits tend to be a hazard to the net worth. Assuming there is net worth. Most folks with that mindset ain't smart enough to have accumulated any, and I doubt my heirs want a doublewide with a mortgage on it.
Lighten up Matilda. You act like an uptight lieberal douchebag dimocrap. Sheesh. Any of you corksuckers ever laugh? Oh never mind.
Are you smart enough to get a clue as to just how much the Fire needs teachers pets like you, running around and telling everyone how they should poo.?
There's a certain psychology at play where people would find that funny and those same people would be ready to fight if someone did it to their loved ones in the theater parking lot. Some of it is a bully mentality, but I think the bulk of it is that somehow an encounter with someone on a bike is less than a human encounter. I generally have favorable interactions with motorists, and I think that has to do with the fact that I make myself as easy to get along with as possible. About 3 years ago around the fourth of July I dressed myself out in patriotic garb and did a 50 mile ride through the rural countryside. I had never had motorists go to greater lengths to engage respectfully. Wider than normal berths as they passed me. Scrubbing off more speed before passing me. Waiting more patiently than normal. Friendly waves as they passed by. Something about the patriotic attire humanized the encounter.
Reading about your bad attitude and whosit over there with the 9 mm is it any wonder you get smoke blown in your face Not to mention the road hogging, like you own it, and the attire. I definitely keep my distance when I pass a bike but I cannot understand the mentality of bicyclists thinking that they own the road. Roads were made for cars and trucks and motorcycles, not Bicycles Do you guys pay road taxes on those bicycles?
There's a certain psychology at play where people would find that funny and those same people would be ready to fight if someone did it to their loved ones in the theater parking lot. Some of it is a bully mentality, but I think the bulk of it is that somehow an encounter with someone on a bike is less than a human encounter. I generally have favorable interactions with motorists, and I think that has to do with the fact that I make myself as easy to get along with as possible. About 3 years ago around the fourth of July I dressed myself out in patriotic garb and did a 50 mile ride through the rural countryside. I had never had motorists go to greater lengths to engage respectfully. Wider than normal berths as they passed me. Scrubbing off more speed before passing me. Waiting more patiently than normal. Friendly waves as they passed by. Something about the patriotic attire humanized the encounter.
Reading about your bad attitude and whosit over there with the 9 mm is it any wonder you get smoke blown in your face Not to mention the road hogging, like you own it, and the attire. I definitely keep my distance when I pass a bike but I cannot understand the mentality of bicyclists thinking that they own the road. Roads were made for cars and trucks and motorcycles, not Bicycles Do you guys pay road taxes on those bicycles?
Yes. I pay taxes that fund road building and maintenance. I don't hog the road. No matter whether I am walking across the road, bicycling, driving my truck, motorcycling or towing a trailer. I care about other road users and do my best to get them on their way as quickly as I safely can. At the same time, I am not going to apologize when someone has to lift off the gas for a second or two or apply gentle pressure to their steering wheel to move over. Frankly I have no use for a cundt that would whine about that.
Theyre a pain in the ass. On the project I'm working on I have to deal with them daily. I can say most of them are fine but the few that give them a bad rap, deserve to be hit with a skid steer. And some of them might be.
My wife and are are approaching a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. We have the green light and are set to cross the intersection when from our right, comes a suicidal bicyclist. He's on the sidewalk, then into the cross walk, on the wrong side of the road, and going through a red light, and for that matter, a do not walk light for pedestrians. Cathy locked up the brakes, laid on the horn, gave him the stink eye, and used some sailor's language not fit for your tender ears, gentlemen. She couldn't have missed him by more than 6 inches. The dufus is lucky he's alive. Why is it that bicyclists think the rules of the road never apply to them?
Why is it that dumb fugking motorist attribute the actions of a few to a population as a whole?
I will say one good thing about the popularity of bicyclists.
Those bicycle lanes. Those are FUGKING AWESOME.
For realz.
I like them too. A lot times they're open when traffic is heavy so I can cruise right down them.
I am amazed at the number of people here who readily admit they don't have the emotional or intellectual faculties to safely and politely interact with other road users. I drive too. I never have had an issue at all safely or courteously interacting with law abiding cyclists.
I have no problem sharing the road with law abiding bikers and motorists. Both who blatantly break the law are ass holes. The problem with the bikers doing it, is it seems they forget that 200 pounds loses to 3500 pounds every fuc king time.
Paul - The speed limit on this particular road is 35 mph. At 25 mph, in several spots, you would likely have a hard time avoiding a collision. At that speed or slower you would risk causing an accident with other vehicles.
There are roads that are simply not safe for bicyclists.
If that were the case I'd slow my driving down so that I didn't outdrive my line of sight. My experience tells me there can be any number of hazards around a blind bend. Driveway entrances where someone may be pulling out. Mailboxes where a mail carrier is stopped. Stalled vehicles. Tractors. Fallen trees. Livestock. Wild animals. The list goes on. I have a choice as a motorist. Drive at a speed that allows me to react, or drive with negligence. I choose the former.
Well bikers aren't really a hazard. It's more of a speed bump...you just need to slow down a bit when you run over one.
I am amazed at the number of people here who readily admit they don't have the emotional or intellectual faculties to safely and politely interact with other road users. I drive too. I never have had an issue at all safely or courteously interacting with law abiding cyclists.
I have no problem sharing the road with law abiding bikers and motorists. Both who blatantly break the law are ass holes. The problem with the bikers doing it, is it seems they forget that 200 pounds loses to 3500 pounds every fuc king time.
I have serious issues with riders like the OP described and large groups that don't give a damn about holding up motorists. There are other cyclist behaviors that are peeves of mine as well.
There's a certain psychology at play where people would find that funny and those same people would be ready to fight if someone did it to their loved ones in the theater parking lot. Some of it is a bully mentality, but I think the bulk of it is that somehow an encounter with someone on a bike is less than a human encounter. I generally have favorable interactions with motorists, and I think that has to do with the fact that I make myself as easy to get along with as possible. About 3 years ago around the fourth of July I dressed myself out in patriotic garb and did a 50 mile ride through the rural countryside. I had never had motorists go to greater lengths to engage respectfully. Wider than normal berths as they passed me. Scrubbing off more speed before passing me. Waiting more patiently than normal. Friendly waves as they passed by. Something about the patriotic attire humanized the encounter.
Reading about your bad attitude and whosit over there with the 9 mm is it any wonder you get smoke blown in your face Not to mention the road hogging, like you own it, and the attire. I definitely keep my distance when I pass a bike but I cannot understand the mentality of bicyclists thinking that they own the road. Roads were made for cars and trucks and motorcycles, not Bicycles Do you guys pay road taxes on those bicycles?
Yes. I pay taxes that fund road building and maintenance. I don't hog the road. No matter whether I am walking across the road, bicycling, driving my truck, motorcycling or towing a trailer. I care about other road users and do my best to get them on their way as quickly as I safely can. At the same time, I am not going to apologize when someone has to lift off the gas for a second or two or apply gentle pressure to their steering wheel to move over. Frankly I have no use for a cundt that would whine about that.
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does. The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped. I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
Looks like the cyclist was heading for the shoulder, but had to cross the highway on-ramp.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by Salmonella
I loathe the arrogant prixx. They ride 3 wide with no shoulder. Fuxx them and their spandex and high heels.
It takes less time to pass a group 3 wide than it does to pass a 3 deep.
Passing three side by side most certainly does not take less time. Sure the amount of time you're aside a cyclist is less, but it takes a lot more time and movement to move completely into the oncoming traffic lane, and then back into your lane. Back when I rode seriously, it was just common courtesy (as well as just plain faster) for groups to ride in single file when shoulders were narrow or non-existent. Or if riding two-three up, to call out "car back" and get single file. But times and entitlements change...
I'll take passing three cyclists one-up in a paceline on a country road over three side by side every day and twice eighteen times on Sundays.
Oh, and to anyone complaining about or defending cyclist behavior as shown or described in this thread - this ain't nothing. Spend a few days driving in SF. Literal home to the militant cyclist movement. Still, I can't condone the "rolling coal" behavior either.
To quote and expand on our MIA brother Steelhead's saying: "People are f---ers, and they abound."
If they want to be able to have a right to the road they should have to pay a road tax every year!
I'm a rider, and I do, every time I fuel up. To the tune of about 1500 gallons a year. I'm certainly not the only cyclist in this situation.
Furthermore, being as I'm in CA, I probably pay a metric s--t ton more road taxes than you do annually. So as you're not carrying your weight, how about you get off my road?
That's fine and dandy that you pay your fuel taxes, but you bicycle freaks want more shoulder width to ride on or special bike paths and think the general public should pay for that too. Thing is, you want more, PAY more. Tax the bicycle.
If they want to be able to have a right to the road they should have to pay a road tax every year!
I'm a rider, and I do, every time I fuel up. To the tune of about 1500 gallons a year. I'm certainly not the only cyclist in this situation.
Furthermore, being as I'm in CA, I probably pay a metric s--t ton more road taxes than you do annually. So as you're not carrying your weight, how about you get off my road?
So by that logic, because we have a car that we pay fuel taxes on, I should be able to buy untaxed diesel for my truck and drive it on the roads.
If they want to be able to have a right to the road they should have to pay a road tax every year!
I'm a rider, and I do, every time I fuel up. To the tune of about 1500 gallons a year. I'm certainly not the only cyclist in this situation.
Furthermore, being as I'm in CA, I probably pay a metric s--t ton more road taxes than you do annually. So as you're not carrying your weight, how about you get off my road?
So by that logic, because we have a car that we pay fuel taxes on, I should be able to buy untaxed diesel for my truck and drive it on the roads.
Try again...
Everyone over 16 yo should be licensed to ride a bike on public roads and pay a regular registration fee to pay for all the infrastructure they demand.
If they want to be able to have a right to the road they should have to pay a road tax every year!
I'm a rider, and I do, every time I fuel up. To the tune of about 1500 gallons a year. I'm certainly not the only cyclist in this situation.
Furthermore, being as I'm in CA, I probably pay a metric s--t ton more road taxes than you do annually. So as you're not carrying your weight, how about you get off my road?
So by that logic, because we have a car that we pay fuel taxes on, I should be able to buy untaxed diesel for my truck and drive it on the roads.
Try again...
Everyone over 16 yo should be licensed to ride a bike on public roads and pay a regular registration fee to pay for all the infrastructure they demand.
I have no problem with that. User tax is the most fair way to do it.
That's fine and dandy that you pay your fuel taxes, but you bicycle freaks want more shoulder width to ride on or special bike paths and think the general public should pay for that too. Thing is, you want more, PAY more. Tax the bicycle.
What about those gosh darned pedestrians! Heck, tax them even more! What with wanting crosswalks, sidewalks, their own special time to cross the roads at intersection!
How about all you "them pesky bicyclists get all the goods for free" just stfu and realize that for better or worse, cyclists, pedestrians, electric scooter riders by law are entitled to some portion of public easements. It's just how it is. Get over it already. Don't like your locality spending money on separate bike paths for cyclists, I've got no problem with that. So why don't you get out and push against it? But for f--ks sake, don't blame some guy thousands of miles away that has nothing to do with it. Especially if that individual is dead set against it.
Ride unobtrusively, ride like every motorist is Mr. Magoo is my motto. All I hope for is that motorists don't behave like [bleep], just 'cuz I'm on a bike. Minding my own effing business... Ditto for cyclists when I'm in a car. Or did you not read my post about having to drive in SF?
If they want to be able to have a right to the road they should have to pay a road tax every year!
I'm a rider, and I do, every time I fuel up. To the tune of about 1500 gallons a year. I'm certainly not the only cyclist in this situation.
Furthermore, being as I'm in CA, I probably pay a metric s--t ton more road taxes than you do annually. So as you're not carrying your weight, how about you get off my road?
So by that logic, because we have a car that we pay fuel taxes on, I should be able to buy untaxed diesel for my truck and drive it on the roads.
Try again...
What logic? Whelanman applied zero. I responded in kind.
As for your untaxed diesel fuel. I do believe that farm equipment often uses roads in a bunch of localities, without paying that pesky road tax. Why aren't you/Whelanman/everyone else on the "cyclists don't pay road taxes" bandwagon up in arms about that?
If they want to be able to have a right to the road they should have to pay a road tax every year!
I'm a rider, and I do, every time I fuel up. To the tune of about 1500 gallons a year. I'm certainly not the only cyclist in this situation.
Furthermore, being as I'm in CA, I probably pay a metric s--t ton more road taxes than you do annually. So as you're not carrying your weight, how about you get off my road?
So by that logic, because we have a car that we pay fuel taxes on, I should be able to buy untaxed diesel for my truck and drive it on the roads.
Try again...
Everyone over 16 yo should be licensed to ride a bike on public roads and pay a regular registration fee to pay for all the infrastructure they demand.
I have no problem with that. User tax is the most fair way to do it.
A fair way to do it is like ATV's here if the speed limit is above 45 MPH no bicycles at all
If they want to be able to have a right to the road they should have to pay a road tax every year!
I'm a rider, and I do, every time I fuel up. To the tune of about 1500 gallons a year. I'm certainly not the only cyclist in this situation.
Furthermore, being as I'm in CA, I probably pay a metric s--t ton more road taxes than you do annually. So as you're not carrying your weight, how about you get off my road?
So by that logic, because we have a car that we pay fuel taxes on, I should be able to buy untaxed diesel for my truck and drive it on the roads.
Try again...
Everyone over 16 yo should be licensed to ride a bike on public roads and pay a regular registration fee to pay for all the infrastructure they demand.
P.S. I Just realized that as I demand no infrastructure whatsoever for my bicycle, by YOUR logic, I should not need to be licensed or registered. Cool, got that settled.
Bicycles can have all the road they need as long as it's on the right side of the fog line. On the left side of the fog line,.............. Well that's where the food chain ends.
Looks like the cyclist was heading for the shoulder, but had to cross the highway on-ramp.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by Salmonella
I loathe the arrogant prixx. They ride 3 wide with no shoulder. Fuxx them and their spandex and high heels.
It takes less time to pass a group 3 wide than it does to pass a 3 deep.
Passing three side by side most certainly does not take less time. Sure the amount of time you're aside a cyclist is less, but it takes a lot more time and movement to move completely into the oncoming traffic lane, and then back into your lane. Back when I rode seriously, it was just common courtesy (as well as just plain faster) for groups to ride in single file when shoulders were narrow or non-existent. Or if riding two-three up, to call out "car back" and get single file. But times and entitlements change...
I'll take passing three cyclists one-up in a paceline on a country road over three side by side every day and twice eighteen times on Sundays.
Oh, and to anyone complaining about or defending cyclist behavior as shown or described in this thread - this ain't nothing. Spend a few days driving in SF. Literal home to the militant cyclist movement. Still, I can't condone the "rolling coal" behavior either.
To quote and expand on our MIA brother Steelhead's saying: "People are f---ers, and they abound."
I am not just speaking out of my ass. I have researched this. The larger the group the greater the time advantage to passing side by side cyclists, but the advantage applies to passing 3 side by side as opposed to strung out. This obviously assumes the motorist has to enter the oncoming lane to safely pass the cyclist. Where there's a useable shoulder or a lane wide enough for a motorist to safely share with the cyclist, then single file is best for the motorist.
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does. The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped. I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded.
If they want to be able to have a right to the road they should have to pay a road tax every year!
I'm a rider, and I do, every time I fuel up. To the tune of about 1500 gallons a year. I'm certainly not the only cyclist in this situation.
Furthermore, being as I'm in CA, I probably pay a metric s--t ton more road taxes than you do annually. So as you're not carrying your weight, how about you get off my road?
So by that logic, because we have a car that we pay fuel taxes on, I should be able to buy untaxed diesel for my truck and drive it on the roads.
Try again...
Everyone over 16 yo should be licensed to ride a bike on public roads and pay a regular registration fee to pay for all the infrastructure they demand.
Yous sound suspiciously like a big government liberal. I don't demand any infrastructure. I am perfectly happy riding on the roads my taxes built.
That's fine and dandy that you pay your fuel taxes, but you bicycle freaks want more shoulder width to ride on or special bike paths and think the general public should pay for that too. Thing is, you want more, PAY more. Tax the bicycle.
Bicycles can have all the road they need as long as it's on the right side of the fog line. On the left side of the fog line,.............. Well that's where the food chain ends.
The food chain ends and the civil and/or criminal proceedings begin. If your income is commensurate with your intellect, there's probably nothing there for the taking in a civil suit though.
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does. The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped. I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded.
Public roads are funded by government. Government is funded by taxes and fees.
That's fine and dandy that you pay your fuel taxes, but you bicycle freaks want more shoulder width to ride on or special bike paths and think the general public should pay for that too. Thing is, you want more, PAY more. Tax the bicycle.
kinda like the gays wanting special rights.
I don't really consider the desire not to be run over by a damn idiot on a road that I pay for a special right.
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does. The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped. I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded.
Public roads are funded by government. Government is funded by taxes and fees.
When riding a motorcycle a single lane road is divided up into 3 equal parts. Just like that video show an approaching left corner the m/c approaches from the far right into the center then into the left part of the lane and coming out of the corner it’s just the opposite, from the left to center to the right right into where you bicyclists are.
One more little thing, my boyfriend and I like to ride side by side so when you come up behind us at 70 mph maybe just slow down really fast or swerve way over into the other lane when you finally get an open spot to pass pulling the heavy trailer.
One more little thing, my boyfriend and I like to ride side by side so when you come up behind us at 70 mph maybe just slow down really fast or swerve way over into the other lane when you finally get an open spot to pass pulling the heavy trailer.
It won't be an issue Sam. Applying a little pressure to the brake or the steering wheel isn't physically exhausting to me.
So do you wetards that ride bicycles on the highway carry insurance to cover the damage you cause? Of course not your all a buucnha arrogant jerks and this thread proves it
The bicyclists I hate are the ones that can't ride single file but insist on riding two or three abreast so they can talk and socialize, acting as though it's their right to do so and the motorists are out of line.
I am not just speaking out of my ass. I have researched this. The larger the group the greater the time advantage to passing side by side cyclists, but the advantage applies to passing 3 side by side as opposed to strung out. This obviously assumes the motorist has to enter the oncoming lane to safely pass the cyclist. Where there's a useable shoulder or a lane wide enough for a motorist to safely share with the cyclist, then single file is best for the motorist.
Sure, except that in the instance with the riders two up, the motorist was way too damned close while following them. If two had tangled and gone down, the car didn't have enough room to avoid running over them. So car should have started a couple seconds further away. So now it's 18 seconds vs 14.
Secondly, here in the US, I'm aware of no laws requiring the motor vehicle to move completely to the other lane. CA requires 3 feet between car and bike, other states require only 2. So there's more time made up not moving fully over into the other lane. Tons of places here where you don't even need to cross the centerline, and yet leave plenty of room to pass a group of single file cyclists.
Thirdly, what does the motorist do when something appears suddenly on the left. (or from the right in the English video)? Quite possibly swerves to the right. Where there is now less room for error because the riders are three up. Again, riders potentially getting mangled. Oh sure the motorist may, or may not face civil penalties. I hope the families of those lost take comfort in that. Best remember there's a jury in that civil action. And those people on the jury? They're made up of folks just like the ones found in this thread. So good luck with that massive lawsuit. Oh, and BTW, if you're not riding your bicycle "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway", well here in CA, that's illegal. So, super dooper good luck with that lawsuit...
And last, there's the emotional/psychological effect that three riders abreast, blocking the entire lane has, vs those same three riding single file. The former incites the kind of anger found here in the thread. The latter, not nearly as much. Especially if this single file group is entirely within the shoulder.
I've seen several times in my travels, when they have pulled right out in front of moving vehicles.... and then learn the logistics of 5 to 10,000 lbs vs 200lbs of cyclist and rider....
saw one get wacked last year, after pulling right in front of a Dodge 3500 Dually, after running the stop sign.
Left no room for the Dodge not to hit him.....
I felt no sympathy for the the cyclist....he played Russian Roulette with a large loaded pickup and lost....
kinda like feeling sympathy for someone who shoots himself... stupid should hurt...
I've seen several times in my travels, when they have pulled right out in front of moving vehicles.... and then learn the logistics of 5 to 10,000 lbs vs 200lbs of cyclist and rider....
saw one get wacked last year, after pulling right in front of a Dodge 3500 Dually, after running the stop sign.
Left no room for the Dodge not to hit him.....
I felt no sympathy for the the cyclist....he played Russian Roulette with a large loaded pickup and lost....
kinda like feeling sympathy for someone who shoots himself... stupid should hurt...
Motorists do that too. Disregard for stop lights and stop signs isn't unique to the cycling community.
I am not just speaking out of my ass. I have researched this. The larger the group the greater the time advantage to passing side by side cyclists, but the advantage applies to passing 3 side by side as opposed to strung out. This obviously assumes the motorist has to enter the oncoming lane to safely pass the cyclist. Where there's a useable shoulder or a lane wide enough for a motorist to safely share with the cyclist, then single file is best for the motorist.
Sure, except that in the instance with the riders two up, the motorist was way too damned close while following them. If two had tangled and gone down, the car didn't have enough room to avoid running over them. So car should have started a couple seconds further away. So now it's 18 seconds vs 14.
Secondly, here in the US, I'm aware of no laws requiring the motor vehicle to move completely to the other lane. CA requires 3 feet between car and bike, other states require only 2. So there's more time made up not moving fully over into the other lane. Tons of places here where you don't even need to cross the centerline, and yet leave plenty of room to pass a group of single file cyclists.
Thirdly, what does the motorist do when something appears suddenly on the left. (or from the right in the English video)? Quite possibly swerves to the right. Where there is now less room for error because the riders are three up. Again, riders potentially getting mangled. Oh sure the motorist may, or may not face civil penalties. I hope the families of those lost take comfort in that. Best remember there's a jury in that civil action. And those people on the jury? They're made up of folks just like the ones found in this thread. So good luck with that massive lawsuit. Oh, and BTW, if you're not riding your bicycle "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway", well here in CA, that's illegal. So, super dooper good luck with that lawsuit...
And last, there's the emotional/psychological effect that three riders abreast, blocking the entire lane has, vs those same three riding single file. The former incites the kind of anger found here in the thread. The latter, not nearly as much. Especially if this single file group is entirely within the shoulder.
Stay safe out there.
Under California law, what does "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" mean when the lane isn't wide enough for a cyclist and motorist to safely share?
I rarely ride in groups. When I do it's on lightly traveled roadways. We always single up for motorists. It doesn't save them time, but they feel better about it. As you have correctly identified, it serves the same purpose a pacifier does to a baby. It provides emotional comfort.
The bicyclists I hate are the ones that can't ride single file but insist on riding two or three abreast so they can talk and socialize, acting as though it's their right to do so and the motorists are out of line.
I've seen several times in my travels, when they have pulled right out in front of moving vehicles.... and then learn the logistics of 5 to 10,000 lbs vs 200lbs of cyclist and rider....
saw one get wacked last year, after pulling right in front of a Dodge 3500 Dually, after running the stop sign.
Left no room for the Dodge not to hit him.....
I felt no sympathy for the the cyclist....he played Russian Roulette with a large loaded pickup and lost....
kinda like feeling sympathy for someone who shoots himself... stupid should hurt...
Motorists do that too. Disregard for stop lights and stop signs isn't unique to the cycling community.
In my experience the percentage of bicyclist disregarding traffic signal and rules of the road is much higher than the percentage of motorists.
In fact I never see a car go from riding down a side walk, slip over to the road, blow through a red light and cross diagonally across an intersection. I've see that at least once just this month. Several other times seen something similar. Changes states like a quantum particle, pedestrian->vehicle->unnamed thing impervious to physics.
The bicyclists I hate are the ones that can't ride single file but insist on riding two or three abreast so they can talk and socialize, acting as though it's their right to do so and the motorists are out of line.
I am not just speaking out of my ass. I have researched this. The larger the group the greater the time advantage to passing side by side cyclists, but the advantage applies to passing 3 side by side as opposed to strung out. This obviously assumes the motorist has to enter the oncoming lane to safely pass the cyclist. Where there's a useable shoulder or a lane wide enough for a motorist to safely share with the cyclist, then single file is best for the motorist.
Sure, except that in the instance with the riders two up, the motorist was way too damned close while following them. If two had tangled and gone down, the car didn't have enough room to avoid running over them. So car should have started a couple seconds further away. So now it's 18 seconds vs 14.
Secondly, here in the US, I'm aware of no laws requiring the motor vehicle to move completely to the other lane. CA requires 3 feet between car and bike, other states require only 2. So there's more time made up not moving fully over into the other lane. Tons of places here where you don't even need to cross the centerline, and yet leave plenty of room to pass a group of single file cyclists.
Thirdly, what does the motorist do when something appears suddenly on the left. (or from the right in the English video)? Quite possibly swerves to the right. Where there is now less room for error because the riders are three up. Again, riders potentially getting mangled. Oh sure the motorist may, or may not face civil penalties. I hope the families of those lost take comfort in that. Best remember there's a jury in that civil action. And those people on the jury? They're made up of folks just like the ones found in this thread. So good luck with that massive lawsuit. Oh, and BTW, if you're not riding your bicycle "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway", well here in CA, that's illegal. So, super dooper good luck with that lawsuit...
And last, there's the emotional/psychological effect that three riders abreast, blocking the entire lane has, vs those same three riding single file. The former incites the kind of anger found here in the thread. The latter, not nearly as much. Especially if this single file group is entirely within the shoulder.
Stay safe out there.
Under California law, what does "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" mean when the lane isn't wide enough for a cyclist and motorist to safely share?
I rarely ride in groups. When I do it's on lightly traveled roadways. We always single up for motorists. It doesn't save them time, but they feel better about it. As you have correctly identified, it serves the same purpose a pacifier does to a baby. It provides emotional comfort.
"as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" means the same thing when the lanes are narrow or when they're wide. There are quite reasonable exceptions of course, look at "cvc 21202" for the actual text. Oh, and this section only applies when the cyclists are going slower than the normal speed of traffic. I'm not sure about where you live, but there are a couple roads near where I'm working where cyclists can easily outpace and pass motor vehicles. Though when doing so, I typically did so on the right.
CA (and other states) also legally require motorists to pass cyclists safely with some minimum distance between them. So to directly answer your question, when the lane is narrow (not the full roadway) then the motorist must move to some extent (partially or fully) into the oncoming lane. Hopefully nice and safely. Generally not an issue. Gets to be an issue when the entire width of the roadway is narrow, sightlines are limited, and half a dozen or more riders are doing 12 in a 35 mph zone and using the entire lane with half a dozen motorists stacked up behind them. In this instance, the cyclist are violating at least 3 laws: Obstructing traffic, failing to pull over when going slower than normal traffic and more than 5 vehicles are behind you, and not staying to the right of the roadway. Motorists in this instance don't want a "pacifier", they merely need the cyclists to obey the vehicle laws. End of story.
Now, riding like this most certainly does not justify intentionally doing harm to the cyclists. However, while passing the above peleton, should a deer jump from the left side of the roadway and the driver instinctively swerve right, running over cyclists, I've got to put a significant portion of the blame on the group of cyclists. Were they single file, staying right - fault solely on the motorist.
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does. The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped. I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded.
Obviously not through bikes? As part of them should be!
The next thing will be ,why can we ride on the freeway, we pay for that too!!!
The argument is not what they pay for. Everyone knows that's total bullschit.
The argument is that since they are a wheeled vehicle they could be reducing emissions and reduce the amount of traffic in already congested streets and roads.
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does. The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped. I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded.
Obviously not through bikes? As part of them should be!
Question for you: What would be a reasonable amount for a bicyclist that rides about 3500 miles a year? On a bicycle that's valued at about $500?
The next thing will be ,why can we ride on the freeway, we pay for that too!!!
The argument is not what they pay for. Everyone knows that's total bullschit.
The argument is that since they are a wheeled vehicle they could be reducing emissions and reduce the amount of traffic in already congested streets and roads.
In the simplest of terms, a dumb fugk idea.
Not following you. Are you disputing the fact that smaller vehicles reduce the amount of traffic congestion in metropolitan areas? Cuz I've driven amongst the sit-down scooter hordes, and was damned glad all those folks weren't in a car as I was.
My wife and are are approaching a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. We have the green light and are set to cross the intersection when from our right, comes a suicidal bicyclist. He's on the sidewalk, then into the cross walk, on the wrong side of the road, and going through a red light, and for that matter, a do not walk light for pedestrians. Cathy locked up the brakes, laid on the horn, gave him the stink eye, and used some sailor's language not fit for your tender ears, gentlemen. She couldn't have missed him by more than 6 inches. The dufus is lucky he's alive. Why is it that bicyclists think the rules of the road never apply to them?
Oh, to get the OP:
Originally Posted by Steelhead
People are [bleep].
People are stupid
I'm certain he said the former. Pretty darn sure he said the latter.
The two non-mutually exclusive statements cover a metric s--t-tonne* of the problems in the world today.
I am not just speaking out of my ass. I have researched this. The larger the group the greater the time advantage to passing side by side cyclists, but the advantage applies to passing 3 side by side as opposed to strung out. This obviously assumes the motorist has to enter the oncoming lane to safely pass the cyclist. Where there's a useable shoulder or a lane wide enough for a motorist to safely share with the cyclist, then single file is best for the motorist.
Sure, except that in the instance with the riders two up, the motorist was way too damned close while following them. If two had tangled and gone down, the car didn't have enough room to avoid running over them. So car should have started a couple seconds further away. So now it's 18 seconds vs 14.
Secondly, here in the US, I'm aware of no laws requiring the motor vehicle to move completely to the other lane. CA requires 3 feet between car and bike, other states require only 2. So there's more time made up not moving fully over into the other lane. Tons of places here where you don't even need to cross the centerline, and yet leave plenty of room to pass a group of single file cyclists.
Thirdly, what does the motorist do when something appears suddenly on the left. (or from the right in the English video)? Quite possibly swerves to the right. Where there is now less room for error because the riders are three up. Again, riders potentially getting mangled. Oh sure the motorist may, or may not face civil penalties. I hope the families of those lost take comfort in that. Best remember there's a jury in that civil action. And those people on the jury? They're made up of folks just like the ones found in this thread. So good luck with that massive lawsuit. Oh, and BTW, if you're not riding your bicycle "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway", well here in CA, that's illegal. So, super dooper good luck with that lawsuit...
And last, there's the emotional/psychological effect that three riders abreast, blocking the entire lane has, vs those same three riding single file. The former incites the kind of anger found here in the thread. The latter, not nearly as much. Especially if this single file group is entirely within the shoulder.
Stay safe out there.
Under California law, what does "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" mean when the lane isn't wide enough for a cyclist and motorist to safely share?
I rarely ride in groups. When I do it's on lightly traveled roadways. We always single up for motorists. It doesn't save them time, but they feel better about it. As you have correctly identified, it serves the same purpose a pacifier does to a baby. It provides emotional comfort.
"as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" means the same thing when the lanes are narrow or when they're wide. There are quite reasonable exceptions of course, look at "cvc 21202" for the actual text. Oh, and this section only applies when the cyclists are going slower than the normal speed of traffic. I'm not sure about where you live, but there are a couple roads near where I'm working where cyclists can easily outpace and pass motor vehicles. Though when doing so, I typically did so on the right.
CA (and other states) also legally require motorists to pass cyclists safely with some minimum distance between them. So to directly answer your question, when the lane is narrow (not the full roadway) then the motorist must move to some extent (partially or fully) into the oncoming lane. Hopefully nice and safely. Generally not an issue. Gets to be an issue when the entire width of the roadway is narrow, sightlines are limited, and half a dozen or more riders are doing 12 in a 35 mph zone and using the entire lane with half a dozen motorists stacked up behind them. In this instance, the cyclist are violating at least 3 laws: Obstructing traffic, failing to pull over when going slower than normal traffic and more than 5 vehicles are behind you, and not staying to the right of the roadway. Motorists in this instance don't want a "pacifier", they merely need the cyclists to obey the vehicle laws. End of story.
Now, riding like this most certainly does not justify intentionally doing harm to the cyclists. However, while passing the above peleton, should a deer jump from the left side of the roadway and the driver instinctively swerve right, running over cyclists, I've got to put a significant portion of the blame on the group of cyclists. Were they single file, staying right - fault solely on the motorist.
Regards, Scott
As close to the right hand edge as practicable does not apply on a lane to narrow to share. The cyclist can be anywhere within that narrow lane.
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does. The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped. I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded.
Obviously not through bikes? As part of them should be!
when i was 6 my friends and i decided to ride our bikes to Dick kleberg park in kingsville tx, down hwy 77, Darrel got hit by a truck and killed. first funeral i ever went to, still remember it. cured me of riding bikes on the high way.
Its pretty fuggin simple. Airfields are built for air commerce and transportation. They don't let F'heads recreate on runways, they are for planes, and necessary support vehicles, only. (With rare special exceptions)
Highways are the same. Business and transportation. Bikes, even when being used as transportation (which is not the norm), impede that intended use.
Your mama told you not to play on the road or in traffic. She was a smart woman, you should listen.
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does. The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped. I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded.
Obviously not through bikes? As part of them should be!
You don't understand how roads are funded.
Ok dipshit, how are roads funded. But taxes on innertubes and Lycra! How about license fees and fuel taxes? I really don't care if bikes played taxes, they don't belong on the venues created for motorvehicles.
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does. The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped. I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded.
Obviously not through bikes? As part of them should be!
You don't understand how roads are funded.
Ok dipshit, how are roads funded. But taxes on innertubes and Lycra! How about license fees and fuel taxes? I really don't care if bikes played taxes, they don't belong on the venues created for motorvehicles.
I had a wonderful ride on a public road today. Nobody commented on my apparel or my sexual preference. Nobody told me to get off the road or to get onto the sidewalk. Nobody buzzed me or ran over me. I made myself very easy to share the road with as always. A few cars were going so slow they held me up. I didn't pitch a fit. I behaved like a man.
Last week I took a 60 mile ride from Mount Crested Butte to Gunnison and up Ohio Creek Road and over Ohio Pass. The drivers here are very respectful of cyclists. I told some ranchers that they had a post card perfect place. They thanked me. Later I saw one of their cows had gone tits up. Saw a pretty buck in velvet. It was quite a workout for these below sea level legs and lungs.
I am not just speaking out of my ass. I have researched this. The larger the group the greater the time advantage to passing side by side cyclists, but the advantage applies to passing 3 side by side as opposed to strung out. This obviously assumes the motorist has to enter the oncoming lane to safely pass the cyclist. Where there's a useable shoulder or a lane wide enough for a motorist to safely share with the cyclist, then single file is best for the motorist.
Sure, except that in the instance with the riders two up, the motorist was way too damned close while following them. If two had tangled and gone down, the car didn't have enough room to avoid running over them. So car should have started a couple seconds further away. So now it's 18 seconds vs 14.
Secondly, here in the US, I'm aware of no laws requiring the motor vehicle to move completely to the other lane. CA requires 3 feet between car and bike, other states require only 2. So there's more time made up not moving fully over into the other lane. Tons of places here where you don't even need to cross the centerline, and yet leave plenty of room to pass a group of single file cyclists.
Thirdly, what does the motorist do when something appears suddenly on the left. (or from the right in the English video)? Quite possibly swerves to the right. Where there is now less room for error because the riders are three up. Again, riders potentially getting mangled. Oh sure the motorist may, or may not face civil penalties. I hope the families of those lost take comfort in that. Best remember there's a jury in that civil action. And those people on the jury? They're made up of folks just like the ones found in this thread. So good luck with that massive lawsuit. Oh, and BTW, if you're not riding your bicycle "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway", well here in CA, that's illegal. So, super dooper good luck with that lawsuit...
And last, there's the emotional/psychological effect that three riders abreast, blocking the entire lane has, vs those same three riding single file. The former incites the kind of anger found here in the thread. The latter, not nearly as much. Especially if this single file group is entirely within the shoulder.
Stay safe out there.
Under California law, what does "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" mean when the lane isn't wide enough for a cyclist and motorist to safely share?
I rarely ride in groups. When I do it's on lightly traveled roadways. We always single up for motorists. It doesn't save them time, but they feel better about it. As you have correctly identified, it serves the same purpose a pacifier does to a baby. It provides emotional comfort.
"as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" means the same thing when the lanes are narrow or when they're wide. There are quite reasonable exceptions of course, look at "cvc 21202" for the actual text. Oh, and this section only applies when the cyclists are going slower than the normal speed of traffic. I'm not sure about where you live, but there are a couple roads near where I'm working where cyclists can easily outpace and pass motor vehicles. Though when doing so, I typically did so on the right.
CA (and other states) also legally require motorists to pass cyclists safely with some minimum distance between them. So to directly answer your question, when the lane is narrow (not the full roadway) then the motorist must move to some extent (partially or fully) into the oncoming lane. Hopefully nice and safely. Generally not an issue. Gets to be an issue when the entire width of the roadway is narrow, sightlines are limited, and half a dozen or more riders are doing 12 in a 35 mph zone and using the entire lane with half a dozen motorists stacked up behind them. In this instance, the cyclist are violating at least 3 laws: Obstructing traffic, failing to pull over when going slower than normal traffic and more than 5 vehicles are behind you, and not staying to the right of the roadway. Motorists in this instance don't want a "pacifier", they merely need the cyclists to obey the vehicle laws. End of story.
Now, riding like this most certainly does not justify intentionally doing harm to the cyclists. However, while passing the above peleton, should a deer jump from the left side of the roadway and the driver instinctively swerve right, running over cyclists, I've got to put a significant portion of the blame on the group of cyclists. Were they single file, staying right - fault solely on the motorist.
Regards, Scott
As close to the right hand edge as practicable does not apply on a lane to narrow to share. The cyclist can be anywhere within that narrow lane.
Not following you. Are you disputing the fact that smaller vehicles reduce the amount of traffic congestion in metropolitan areas?
Yes.
This is from personal experience, nothing theoretical about it:
Riding singly vs driving singly, 6-8 people or more occupy the same area in a lane when on scooters/bicycles. Double up in cars, sure, but scooters can double up too then. Since cars are at the same time highly restricted in speed in metropolitan traffic, perhaps 20-30x OR MORE people can use two wheeled vehicles to go from point A to point B in the same amount of time. A commute that normally took 15 minutes in a car, could take an hour during commute periods. Yet it still took just a little bit more than 15 minutes on an electric scooter. I would be joined by dozens upon dozens of other riders at each red light. One thing: this was with a lane dedicated solely to two wheel transit, with a physical boundary between motorists and two wheelers. But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever that were all those people that were on two wheels move to cars, then traffic would be quite significantly worse.
It is the language used in the law you previously cited. I don't know how CA defines it. If a lane is too narrow to accommodate a cyclist riding about 2 feet from the curb or fog line and a car passing at a safe distance, then it is generally considered too narrow to share.
You think Schofield Pass is bad you should check out Mt Blanca. There is another 4 wheel drive road that is absolutely nuts in terms of how steep it is, but I can't remember the name.
Red Cone maybe?
We did the Holy Cross trail probably 20 year ago now and that is some gorgeous country too.
It is the language used in the law you previously cited. I don't know how CA defines it. If a lane is too narrow to accommodate a cyclist riding about 2 feet from the curb or fog line and a car passing at a safe distance, then it is generally considered too narrow to share.
Ok, so our logic is similar. So that equates to any lane 10.5-11.5 feet wide or less. (5 foot wide car, 2-3 foot margin for safety, 3 foot wide cyclist, 2 feet from tire to edge of road. Again, should there be obstacles/right turns, cyclists exceeding the speed of traffic... then the cyclist has no need to abide by "as far to the right as practicable".
So justify cyclists saying they should take the lane if it's narrower than 14 feet. This, in instances when none of the exceptions to cvc 21202 apply. Doing so because "it feelz dangerous if i don't take the lane"
Oh, just realized you said two feet from the fog line. Nope, sorry. There's no mention of "fog line" in the regulation. And here's why: There are shoulders here that are 4 feet wide or more, no obstructions or debris whatsoever. Absolutely zero justification for riding outside them unless 21202 exceptions apply. And yet, there are the pair of riders, two up, chatting away, with one outside the shoulder by a couple feet. Becuz "I need to take the lane for safety".
Schofield is no big deal. That ain't Schofield, it's Crystal Canyon. And it's pretty bad in places.
I thought that was Gothic Mountain, beautiful area, and one that is as well suited to bikes as any. Used to hunt that area every year. Time/expense kept me away for awhile. Now, I just can't justify the cost, it's gotten outrageous. Not that I can't, now. Just won't. License alone cost darn near as much as my total cost in 1988, including 12 nights in a cabin.
You think Schofield Pass is bad you should check out Mt Blanca. There is another 4 wheel drive road that is absolutely nuts in terms of how steep it is, but I can't remember the name.
Red Cone maybe?
We did the Holy Cross trail probably 20 year ago now and that is some gorgeous country too.
I have passed Blanca a number of times but have never been on it. It's a totally different Colorado there. I love this state for its geological diversity and beauty.
It is the language used in the law you previously cited. I don't know how CA defines it. If a lane is too narrow to accommodate a cyclist riding about 2 feet from the curb or fog line and a car passing at a safe distance, then it is generally considered too narrow to share.
Ok, so our logic is similar. So that equates to any lane 10.5-11.5 feet wide or less. (5 foot wide car, 2-3 foot margin for safety, 3 foot wide cyclist, 2 feet from tire to edge of road. Again, should there be obstacles/right turns, cyclists exceeding the speed of traffic... then the cyclist has no need to abide by "as far to the right as practicable".
So justify cyclists saying they should take the lane if it's narrower than 14 feet. This, in instances when none of the exceptions to cvc 21202 apply. Doing so because "it feelz dangerous if i don't take the lane"
Oh, just realized you said two feet from the fog line. Nope, sorry. There's no mention of "fog line" in the regulation. And here's why: There are shoulders here that are 4 feet wide or more, no obstructions or debris whatsoever. Absolutely zero justification for riding outside them unless 21202 exceptions apply. And yet, there are the pair of riders, two up, chatting away, with one outside the shoulder by a couple feet. Becuz "I need to take the lane for safety". Some cyclists don't use a god shoulder because there "may be debris." In my mind that puts them outside the hazard exception. It is for real not potential hazards.
I only mentionedfog line because it is often the edge of the roadway where I ride. I love a good shoulder to ride on and use them unhesitatingly. If I am riding side by side with one on the shoulder and one on the roadway, I'll single up when auto traffic approaches. If auto traffic is steady, I'll stay on the shoulder. I try to avoid areas with steady traffic though.
Schofield is no big deal. That ain't Schofield, it's Crystal Canyon. And it's pretty bad in places.
I thought that was Gothic Mountain, beautiful area, and one that is as well suited to bikes as any. Used to hunt that area every year. Time/expense kept me away for awhile. Now, I just can't justify the cost, it's gotten outrageous. Not that I can't, now. Just won't. License alone cost darn near as much as my total cost in 1988, including 12 nights in a cabin.
I think hunting here would be an incredible experience. At my age with my bad joints packing and animal out would be hell. I have never been to Crystal Canyon and it does indeed look bad.
1988 we were hunting the 12 day season. We took a day to basically ride around see what there was to see, and maybe a different place to hunt. I was a 19 year old, in the back of a Toyota with a cap. There was another guy in the back, two up front.
We went over the pass, down through the meadow past the little cabin, and past the signs saying experienced 4-wheelers with properly equipped vehicles only. A little way in it was narrow, with a drop on one side, the road cut into the rock wall And a solid wall on the other. Then we came to the boulder in the road. Not wanting to back out, and figuring we would be fine on the other side, we got out and guided the truck around. Barely!
The road was mostly like #4 or 6 stone, and much of it was so narrow the guys up front couldn't get out. There were vehicles rolled down into the canyon that couldn't be recovered, and one had to ponder the fate of the passengers. After the worst, there is an old mill, near Marble, Google it. There was a little store at a crossroad, nothing else. We stopped to get a drink, and ask an old man the best way back to Crested Butte or Gunnison. He looked at us a bit, and said, "Well how did you get here". We just said down this road. He looked at us again, and said "Boys, I won't go through there on anything but a horse".
Some of our group were behind us, and tried to go through in an F-250. The driver drove trucks and well drilling rigs his whole life. They couldn't get around the boulder, and had to back probably a mile or more back out. Those passengers wouldn't ride. Said someone had to live to tell the story.
We stayed at Lost Canyon Resort, just cabins. Telling the owner about our ride, he shared the story of a family that tried to go through there in a full size Bronco or Blazer. It went over in the Devil's Punchbowl, the driver bailed as it slid off the road. He lived, his family didn't.
If you remember the Snuffy Smith road above Emerald Lake, in the '90's, a truck driver tried to go through that road in an 18 wheeler. He got hung up there, and was stuck for days. They finally had to bring in cranes to hoist him out. If he had gotten through, He was looking to go through the canyon to Aspen.
1988 we were hunting the 12 day season. We took a day to basically ride around see what there was to see, and maybe a different place to hunt. I was a 19 year old, in the back of a Toyota with a cap. There was another guy in the back, two up front.
We went over the pass, down through the meadow past the little cabin, and past the signs saying experienced 4-wheelers with properly equipped vehicles only. A little way in it was narrow, with a drop on one side, the road cut into the rock wall And a solid wall on the other. Then we came to the boulder in the road. Not wanting to back out, and figuring we would be fine on the other side, we got out and guided the truck around. Barely!
The road was mostly like #4 or 6 stone, and much of it was so narrow the guys up front couldn't get out. There were vehicles rolled down into the canyon that couldn't be recovered, and one had to ponder the fate of the passengers. After the worst, there is an old mill, near Marble, Google it. There was a little store at a crossroad, nothing else. We stopped to get a drink, and ask an old man the best way back to Crested Butte or Gunnison. He looked at us a bit, and said, "Well how did you get here". We just said down this road. He looked at us again, and said "Boys, I won't go through there on anything but a horse".
Some of our group were behind us, and tried to go through in an F-250. The driver drove trucks and well drilling rigs his whole life. They couldn't get around the boulder, and had to back probably a mile or more back out. Those passengers wouldn't ride. Said someone had to live to tell the story.
We stayed at Lost Canyon Resort, just cabins. Telling the owner about our ride, he shared the story of a family that tried to go through there in a full size Bronco or Blazer. It went over in the Devil's Punchbowl, the driver bailed as it slid off the road. He lived, his family didn't.
If you remember the Snuffy Smith road above Emerald Lake, in the '90's, a truck driver tried to go through that road in an 18 wheeler. He got hung up there, and was stuck for days. They finally had to bring in cranes to hoist him out. If he had gotten through, He was looking to go through the canyon to Aspen.
That Devils Punch Bowl road has eaten its share of vehicles and people from what I have heard. I have ridden pretty far back in there on a bicycle, and I would not want to do it in a regular size motor vehicle. I cannot imagine any sober person trying any of that in an 18 wheeler. This is what it looked like today after I turned around because of a mound of snow across the road.
Yesterday was my last day of riding the mountains. I did a 61 mile ride from Mt Crested Butte to several miles shy of Buffalo Pass. I hate to leave this place behind.
"BUTTE, Mont. — A bicyclist from Washington state has died of his injuries after being struck by a vehicle on a Montana highway.
The Montana Standard reports the 70-year-old died Monday from injuries he suffered in the accident on the shoulder of Montana Highway 2 around 2 p.m. Sunday.
Authorities did not identify the man.
The Montana Highway Patrol says the man was struck by the side mirror of a motor home, which caused him to crash.
The motor home was on the same side of the road as the cyclist and reportedly slowed, but could not move over on the two-lane highway as another vehicle approached.
Authorities say alcohol, drugs and excessive speed are not considered factors in the accident.
It is the language used in the law you previously cited. I don't know how CA defines it. If a lane is too narrow to accommodate a cyclist riding about 2 feet from the curb or fog line and a car passing at a safe distance, then it is generally considered too narrow to share.
Ok, so our logic is similar. So that equates to any lane 10.5-11.5 feet wide or less. (5 foot wide car, 2-3 foot margin for safety, 3 foot wide cyclist, 2 feet from tire to edge of road. Again, should there be obstacles/right turns, cyclists exceeding the speed of traffic... then the cyclist has no need to abide by "as far to the right as practicable".
So justify cyclists saying they should take the lane if it's narrower than 14 feet. This, in instances when none of the exceptions to cvc 21202 apply. Doing so because "it feelz dangerous if i don't take the lane"
Oh, just realized you said two feet from the fog line. Nope, sorry. There's no mention of "fog line" in the regulation. And here's why: There are shoulders here that are 4 feet wide or more, no obstructions or debris whatsoever. Absolutely zero justification for riding outside them unless 21202 exceptions apply. And yet, there are the pair of riders, two up, chatting away, with one outside the shoulder by a couple feet. Becuz "I need to take the lane for safety".
Bicyclists have a death wish and arrogance that needs controlled. The camera is wide angle and the distances are deceiving. This is a highway with a legal speed limit of 70 MPH. The truck in the oncoming lane is also doing 60-70 MPH and if you count the centerlines, it gives you a better idea of just how close he is and at this speed doesn't allow you to swerve over into the oncoming lane to avoid the cyclist. the cyclist is a better target than a semi truck. This is the rule, not the exception...
It is the language used in the law you previously cited. I don't know how CA defines it. If a lane is too narrow to accommodate a cyclist riding about 2 feet from the curb or fog line and a car passing at a safe distance, then it is generally considered too narrow to share.
Ok, so our logic is similar. So that equates to any lane 10.5-11.5 feet wide or less. (5 foot wide car, 2-3 foot margin for safety, 3 foot wide cyclist, 2 feet from tire to edge of road. Again, should there be obstacles/right turns, cyclists exceeding the speed of traffic... then the cyclist has no need to abide by "as far to the right as practicable".
So justify cyclists saying they should take the lane if it's narrower than 14 feet. This, in instances when none of the exceptions to cvc 21202 apply. Doing so because "it feelz dangerous if i don't take the lane"
Oh, just realized you said two feet from the fog line. Nope, sorry. There's no mention of "fog line" in the regulation. And here's why: There are shoulders here that are 4 feet wide or more, no obstructions or debris whatsoever. Absolutely zero justification for riding outside them unless 21202 exceptions apply. And yet, there are the pair of riders, two up, chatting away, with one outside the shoulder by a couple feet. Becuz "I need to take the lane for safety".
Bicyclists have a death wish and arrogance that needs controlled. The camera is wide angle and the distances are deceiving. This is a highway with a legal speed limit of 70 MPH. The truck in the oncoming lane is also doing 60-70 MPH and if you count the centerlines, it gives you a better idea of just how close he is and at this speed doesn't allow you to swerve over into the oncoming lane to avoid the cyclist. the cyclist is a better target than a semi truck. This is the rule, not the exception...
Damn rumble strips. That'd be an ideal shoulder if it didn't have them. What difficulty did you experience in seeing or negotiating your way around that cyclist? I am reckoning I could see him on that road from a mile away, and it's not like traffic density is such that I couldn't easily pass him.
Damn rumble strips. That'd be an ideal shoulder if it didn't have them. What difficulty did you experience in seeing or negotiating your way around that cyclist? I am reckoning I could see him on that road from a mile away, and it's not like traffic density is such that I couldn't easily pass him.
The highway was designed for motorized use. Cyclists believe they are special and deserve special treatment. So I need to change my driving habits to accommodate a cyclist. I usually do because I don't want to intentionally injure someone, meanwhile these arrogant cyclists pedal all over Montana and other highways with little regard for an automobile that could smash the piss out of them and then finger you when you pass. Don't tell me that doesn't happen because it does.
Worse yet is to get 2 or more cyclists and they ride side by side and ride casually expecting everyone to yield to their riding habits. I have spent over 40 years driving professionally all over southwest Montana and have easily logged over 1.5 million miles avoiding those people. I will admit they are not all that way, but most are. That is an observation from being on the road, not reading about it...
I fully understand that there are no shortage of idiot motorists who need rumble strips. The rumble strips pictured relegate to shoulder to a useless piece of asphalt for cyclists. If the stripe were flush against the fog line and half the width they are, they's still help save idiots from themselves and give riders a useful place to ride. Even occasional breaks in the strips would help.
Damn rumble strips. That'd be an ideal shoulder if it didn't have them. What difficulty did you experience in seeing or negotiating your way around that cyclist? I am reckoning I could see him on that road from a mile away, and it's not like traffic density is such that I couldn't easily pass him.
The highway was designed for motorized use. Cyclists believe they are special and deserve special treatment. So I need to change my driving habits to accommodate a cyclist.
Do you need to change your habits? I certainly don't expect special treatment. Just like I expect when I drive my car, I expect not to be killed or injured through the negligence of others. Is that special treatment in your mind? I did some driving in addition to my riding yesterday. When I was driving and encountered cyclists, I didn't need them to do anything. I braked, slowed or steered around them as necessary. To expect other legal road users to do anything for me is to expect special treatment.
I fully understand that there are no shortage of idiot motorists who need rumble strips. The rumble strips pictured relegate to shoulder to a useless piece of asphalt for cyclists. If the stripe were flush against the fog line and half the width they are, they's still help save idiots from themselves and give riders a useful place to ride. Even occasional breaks in the strips would help.
The irony is hilarious! A guy who rides a bike on a road designed for cars going 65-70 miles a hour, with no more protection than a plastic helmet and a law that will try the person who accidentally kills him for manslaughter, calls the motorists "idiots".
I fully understand that there are no shortage of idiot motorists who need rumble strips. The rumble strips pictured relegate to shoulder to a useless piece of asphalt for cyclists. If the stripe were flush against the fog line and half the width they are, they's still help save idiots from themselves and give riders a useful place to ride. Even occasional breaks in the strips would help.
The irony is hilarious! A guy who rides a bike on a road designed for cars going 65-70 miles a hour, with no more protection than a plastic helmet and a law that will try the person who accidentally kills him for manslaughter, calls the motorists "idiots".
Do you think rumble strips are for alert, attentive motorists or for idiots?
That's why some cyclists are adamant about not using a shoulder. It invites a squeeze play like the dumbass motor home driver attempted. Far be it for them to slow until they could safely pass.
I think they're to try and remind bicyclists that roads are designed for cars and they should probably stay away. Bicyclists don't get the hint.
I get the hint. There are no shortage of mental or emotional midgets who cannot seem to safely share the roads with cyclists. Is it the physical, psychological or intellectual part you find so difficult?
That's why some cyclists are adamant about not using a shoulder. It invites a squeeze play like the dumbass motor home driver attempted. Far be it for them to slow until they could safely pass.
Bicycles shouldn’t be on any road that doesn’t have a bike lane, let alone a 70mph highway. Few things worse than the summer chit show bike riders bring to MT. Bikes don’t pay for roads anyway, needs to be put into law.
That's why some cyclists are adamant about not using a shoulder. It invites a squeeze play like the dumbass motor home driver attempted. Far be it for them to slow until they could safely pass.
Bikes don’t pay for roads anyway, needs to be put into law.
Yes they do moron. I have posted links in this very thread.
Damn rumble strips. That'd be an ideal shoulder if it didn't have them. What difficulty did you experience in seeing or negotiating your way around that cyclist? I am reckoning I could see him on that road from a mile away, and it's not like traffic density is such that I couldn't easily pass him.
The highway was designed for motorized use. Cyclists believe they are special and deserve special treatment. So I need to change my driving habits to accommodate a cyclist.
Do you need to change your habits? I certainly don't expect special treatment. Just like I expect when I drive my car, I expect not to be killed or injured through the negligence of others. Is that special treatment in your mind? I did some driving in addition to my riding yesterday. When I was driving and encountered cyclists, I didn't need them to do anything. I braked, slowed or steered around them as necessary. To expect other legal road users to do anything for me is to expect special treatment.
Pal [bleep] you right or wrong if I'm hauling a D7 and heavier you're a dead mother f***** getting my way
Was hauling an 8N with semi u dozer still on (had permit to do so) and my pilot car had to persuade a California bicycle rider we needed the road for a minute.
Argument did not last very long . Friggin bicycles.
That's why some cyclists are adamant about not using a shoulder. It invites a squeeze play like the dumbass motor home driver attempted. Far be it for them to slow until they could safely pass.
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard! Get the frick off the road! On the shoulder, Duh!
Damn rumble strips. That'd be an ideal shoulder if it didn't have them. What difficulty did you experience in seeing or negotiating your way around that cyclist? I am reckoning I could see him on that road from a mile away, and it's not like traffic density is such that I couldn't easily pass him.
The highway was designed for motorized use. Cyclists believe they are special and deserve special treatment. So I need to change my driving habits to accommodate a cyclist.
Do you need to change your habits? I certainly don't expect special treatment. Just like I expect when I drive my car, I expect not to be killed or injured through the negligence of others. Is that special treatment in your mind? I did some driving in addition to my riding yesterday. When I was driving and encountered cyclists, I didn't need them to do anything. I braked, slowed or steered around them as necessary. To expect other legal road users to do anything for me is to expect special treatment.
Pal [bleep] you right or wrong if I'm hauling a D7 and heavier you're a dead mother f***** getting my way
My wife can only hope you have more insurance than driving skill.
I think they're to try and remind bicyclists that roads are designed for cars and they should probably stay away. Bicyclists don't get the hint.
I get the hint. There are no shortage of mental or emotional midgets who cannot seem to safely share the roads with cyclists. Is it the physical, psychological or intellectual part you find so difficult?
This thread started to point out the self-righteous, condescending attitude of most bike riders. I'm glad you're here to help moderate that opinion.
And based on the pictures you've posted of where you ride, no, you haven't gotten the hint. But at least when you get squished, you can pass on knowing you were killed by a mental midget.
That's why some cyclists are adamant about not using a shoulder. It invites a squeeze play like the dumbass motor home driver attempted. Far be it for them to slow until they could safely pass.
Come on Paul. Seriously, you have to admit that there is blatant disregard among cyclists for running stop signs, traffic lights, and not staying over to the side so cars can safely get by them. Many cyclists seem to think the rules of the road don't apply to them, and that's wrong. Explain to me what's going on with the dumbazzed idiots who continually ride on the wrong side of the road. This is your brethren, buddy. Bikes are supposed to obey the same rules as cars, not make up their own rules of the road as they go. As for staying over to the side of the road, doesn't it pizz you off when you're in a car and a much slower vehicle gets in your way and refuses to move over so you can safely get around? Sure it does, but bicyclists often refuse to stay to the side to the right side where they should be. It's no wonder people get fed up with them THEY BRING IT ON THEM SELVES!
I think they're to try and remind bicyclists that roads are designed for cars and they should probably stay away. Bicyclists don't get the hint.
I get the hint. There are no shortage of mental or emotional midgets who cannot seem to safely share the roads with cyclists. Is it the physical, psychological or intellectual part you find so difficult?
This thread started to point out the self-righteous, condescending attitude of most bike riders. I'm glad you're here to help moderate that opinion.
And based on the pictures you've posted of where you ride, no, you haven't gotten the hint. But at least when you get squished, you can pass on knowing you were killed by a mental midget.
Why don't you take a moment to tell me what I did when vehicles approached me from behind on the road in the most recent photo. How may vehicles did I encounter on my 61 mile ride?
That's why some cyclists are adamant about not using a shoulder. It invites a squeeze play like the dumbass motor home driver attempted. Far be it for them to slow until they could safely pass.
Come on Paul. Seriously, you have to admit that there is blatant disregard among cyclists for running stop signs, traffic lights, and not staying over to the side so cars can safely get by them. Many cyclists seem to think the rules of the road don't apply to them, and that's wrong. Explain to me what's going on with the dumbazzed idiots who continually ride on the wrong side of the road. This is your brethren, buddy. Bikes are supposed to obey the same rules as cars, not make up their own rules of the road as they go. As for staying over to the side of the road, doesn't it pizz you off when you're in a car and a much slower vehicle gets in your way and refuses to move over so you can safely get around? Sure it does, but bicyclists often refuse to stay to the side to the right side where they should be. It's no wonder people get fed up with them THEY BRING IT ON THEM SELVES!
Every road user I know takes regular liberties with the law. Be it slow rolling stops and right turns on red, going over the speed limit, not using turn signals, etc. The difference is that cyclists pose almost no thereat to the safety of others when they screw up. Certainly far less of a threat than a motor vehicle. When I break the law bicycling it often serves to enhance the overall flow of traffic.
Most of the wrong way cyclists I see are people who aren't qualified to have a drivers license. I certainly advocate strongly against wrong way cycling.
It pisses me off if a slower vehicle gets in front of me an I am stuck behind them for a while. I have never been stuck behind a cyclist for more than 30 seconds though. Most often it's much less than that. They take up a small space and travel slowly. Very easy to pass! When I have had frank conversations with motorists, most of them admit that they get held up by motorists more on their average trip than they have been held up by cyclists cumulatively over the whole of their lives. On the ride my most recent photo captures, some drivers slowed. None had to. I worked all of them around me immediately. I pulled off at one point to take a pic. A motorhome came by. It had about a dozen vehicles stacked up behind it. The same thing happened with a semi. Put in the proper perspective, cyclists are a non-issue.
Sometimes it's unsafe to hug the right. Bicycle safety experts have written volumes about it and that's why laws rarely strictly relegate a cyclist to the far right. The link someone posted about a motorhome clipping a rider and killing him is an example of the hazards of hugging the right.
Damn rumble strips. That'd be an ideal shoulder if it didn't have them. What difficulty did you experience in seeing or negotiating your way around that cyclist? I am reckoning I could see him on that road from a mile away, and it's not like traffic density is such that I couldn't easily pass him.
The highway was designed for motorized use. Cyclists believe they are special and deserve special treatment. So I need to change my driving habits to accommodate a cyclist.
Do you need to change your habits? I certainly don't expect special treatment. Just like I expect when I drive my car, I expect not to be killed or injured through the negligence of others. Is that special treatment in your mind? I did some driving in addition to my riding yesterday. When I was driving and encountered cyclists, I didn't need them to do anything. I braked, slowed or steered around them as necessary. To expect other legal road users to do anything for me is to expect special treatment.
Pal [bleep] you right or wrong if I'm hauling a D7 and heavier you're a dead mother f***** getting my way
My wife can only hope you have more insurance than driving skill.
I have to ask are you guys that are so dead set against riding bikes seeing a bunch of bicyclists daily or something? I can almost understand the vitriol if you guys are seeing A-hole bicyclists every frigging day. I live on a popular bike route and every so often I see one that makes me cuss, but if I'm honest about I see a lot of drivers that make me cuss too.
I ride 2-5 times a week depending on weather for fitness reasons. I have an old back injury that makes the pounding from running painful rather then fun or I'd probably run on occasion.
It can be a pretty good aerobic workout especially on a single speed.
Paul, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Bicyclists break far more traffic rules than cars do. If you can't bring your self to admit that, well-that's where we disagree. As far as motorists doing right turns on red, where I live, that's legal, unless otherwise posted. Cyclists turn right, left, and go straight ahead on red regularly. You have to admit this is true Paul. Don't tell me you haven't seen this, and don't tell me you haven't done it.
Supposedly Idaho made it legal for bicyclists to slow roll a stop sign. I've seen it referred to as an "Idaho Stop" a lot on the bike forum. Basically they get to treat a stop sign as a yield sign.
Honestly I don't understand why that is considered beneficial, but whatever.
Paul, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Bicyclists break far more traffic rules than cars do. If you can't bring your self to admit that, well-that's where we disagree. As far as motorists doing right turns on red, where I live, that's legal, unless otherwise posted. Cyclists turn right, left, and go straight ahead on red regularly. You have to admit this is true Paul. Don't tell me you haven't seen this, and don't tell me you haven't done it.
I have to ask are you guys that are so dead set against riding bikes seeing a bunch of bicyclists daily or something? I can almost understand the vitriol if you guys are seeing A-hole bicyclists every frigging day. I live on a popular bike route and every so often I see one that makes me cuss, but if I'm honest about I see a lot of drivers that make me cuss too.
I ride 2-5 times a week depending on weather for fitness reasons. I have an old back injury that makes the pounding from running painful rather then fun or I'd probably run on occasion.
It can be a pretty good aerobic workout especially on a single speed.
They are making a mountain out of a mole hill as most anti-cycling motorists do.
"Researchers from the University of South Florida gathered data from 100 bike riders in and around Tampa. Participants’ bikes were mounted with sensors, cameras, and GPS to record their movements for a total of 2,000 hours."
No doubt, those cameras hangin offa the handlebar didn't influence the cycling habits a those bicyclers.
"Researchers from the University of South Florida gathered data from 100 bike riders in and around Tampa. Participants’ bikes were mounted with sensors, cameras, and GPS to record their movements for a total of 2,000 hours."
No doubt, those cameras hangin offa the handlebar didn't influence the cycling habits a those bicyclers.
We have a few cyclists around here, especially when the Tour De'Toona is happening. I see them a lot near Horseshoe Curve... I never have a problem slowing down and driving around them.
On a much more important note... Paul, will you be aware when those awesome sales start at Walmart this year and will you make it a point to keep us informed here? (Please)
We have a few cyclists around here, especially when the Tour De'Toona is happening. I see them a lot near Horseshoe Curve... I never have a problem slowing down and driving around them.
On a much more important note... Paul, will you be aware when those awesome sales start at Walmart this year and will you make it a point to keep us informed here? (Please)
The first set of markdowns should have already taken place. Go take a look around. Anything on clearance will be further reduced within a few weeks. This year I am expecting Henry Big Boys to be reduced 50%. I may be wrong, but I can't imagine them being hot sellers for WM.
We have a few cyclists around here, especially when the Tour De'Toona is happening. I see them a lot near Horseshoe Curve... I never have a problem slowing down and driving around them.
On a much more important note... Paul, will you be aware when those awesome sales start at Walmart this year and will you make it a point to keep us informed here? (Please)
The first set of markdowns should have already taken place. Go take a look around. Anything on clearance will be further reduced within a few weeks. This year I am expecting Henry Big Boys to be reduced 50%. I may be wrong, but I can't imagine them being hot sellers for WM.
Thank you, I'll do some shopping. If you do hear of any spectacular deals I'm sure we here would appreciate a heads up
All this defense about bicycling. The OP told a story that happens to often. Because someone rides and enjoys riding bicycles, doesn't mean they need to stand up for other idiots. I have had three near missed with bicyclists. All three were within the last month. Two were spandex wearing pucks crossing against lights at a busy intersection. The other was a methead looking puck weaving in and out of traffic. He clipped the car next to me went down and I ran over his front tire, just as he appeared in vision. The police took him away, left his bick laying beside the road! Most aren't as perfect as the spandex rep in this thread.
Was hauling an 8N with semi u dozer still on (had permit to do so) and my pilot car had to persuade a California bicycle rider we needed the road for a minute.
Argument did not last very long . Friggin bicycles.
Cyclists are a goofy lot, when I encounter them on trails horseback riding they stop and get out of the way for fear of getting kicked. On the highways they seem to not have any fear of getting run over.
It is the language used in the law you previously cited. I don't know how CA defines it. If a lane is too narrow to accommodate a cyclist riding about 2 feet from the curb or fog line and a car passing at a safe distance, then it is generally considered too narrow to share.
Ok, so our logic is similar. So that equates to any lane 10.5-11.5 feet wide or less. (5 foot wide car, 2-3 foot margin for safety, 3 foot wide cyclist, 2 feet from tire to edge of road. Again, should there be obstacles/right turns, cyclists exceeding the speed of traffic... then the cyclist has no need to abide by "as far to the right as practicable".
So justify cyclists saying they should take the lane if it's narrower than 14 feet. This, in instances when none of the exceptions to cvc 21202 apply. Doing so because "it feelz dangerous if i don't take the lane"
Oh, just realized you said two feet from the fog line. Nope, sorry. There's no mention of "fog line" in the regulation. And here's why: There are shoulders here that are 4 feet wide or more, no obstructions or debris whatsoever. Absolutely zero justification for riding outside them unless 21202 exceptions apply. And yet, there are the pair of riders, two up, chatting away, with one outside the shoulder by a couple feet. Becuz "I need to take the lane for safety".
Bicyclists have a death wish and arrogance that needs controlled. The camera is wide angle and the distances are deceiving. This is a highway with a legal speed limit of 70 MPH. The truck in the oncoming lane is also doing 60-70 MPH and if you count the centerlines, it gives you a better idea of just how close he is and at this speed doesn't allow you to swerve over into the oncoming lane to avoid the cyclist. the cyclist is a better target than a semi truck. This is the rule, not the exception...
Damn rumble strips. That'd be an ideal shoulder if it didn't have them. What difficulty did you experience in seeing or negotiating your way around that cyclist? I am reckoning I could see him on that road from a mile away, and it's not like traffic density is such that I couldn't easily pass him.
Well, I ain't really taking one side or another in this debate, tho I just put in about 600 roadside miles (??) in Montana and might be about to put in another 140.
That guy in the photo could be me if I didn't hear the vehicle in back and/or weren't watching my mirrors. I run the widest tires I can fit on my 30yo touring bike (35mm) with an aggressive tread (Schwalbe Marathon Mondials) precisely for running off of the asphalt into the dirt when needed.
In that photo I would most likely be riding the strip of smoother asphalt between the rumble strip and the dirt. I can't very well RIDE the rumble strip of course, but I can transition across it pretty easy, my bike frame being so softly sprung. I haven't seen many places but one or two short stretches where the rumble strip took up ALL the shoulder.
In the fatality Shrapnel posted, it reportedly happened on a blind curve, for all we know if the dead guy had been center lane he might have simply been run over.
I must say I fail to see much difference between riding a bicycle in a traffic lane and being a pedestrian in a traffic lane, so I generally vacate them in a heartbeat in the presence of vehicles.
A sad deal for the RV driver, I'll bet it ruins your whole trip to kill some guy.
Like I've said if I get run over unintentionally its ALWAYS gonna be my fault, if it were me that got taken out by the RV mirror I'd say the same.
I will say I have learned to be wary of RV's plainly lots of folks driving 'em don't have much time behind the wheel of a vehicle that size.
We have a few cyclists around here, especially when the Tour De'Toona is happening. I see them a lot near Horseshoe Curve... I never have a problem slowing down and driving around them.
On a much more important note... Paul, will you be aware when those awesome sales start at Walmart this year and will you make it a point to keep us informed here? (Please)
The first set of markdowns should have already taken place. Go take a look around. Anything on clearance will be further reduced within a few weeks. This year I am expecting Henry Big Boys to be reduced 50%. I may be wrong, but I can't imagine them being hot sellers for WM.
Thank you, I'll do some shopping. If you do hear of any spectacular deals I'm sure we here would appreciate a heads up
Will do. It brought me great pleasure last year watching the members stock up on the deals.
Paul, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Bicyclists break far more traffic rules than cars do. If you can't bring your self to admit that, well-that's where we disagree. As far as motorists doing right turns on red, where I live, that's legal, unless otherwise posted. Cyclists turn right, left, and go straight ahead on red regularly. You have to admit this is true Paul. Don't tell me you haven't seen this, and don't tell me you haven't done it.
The situation I’ll often run red lights is passing under a freeway overpass where there’s a traffic light on either side of the overpass. This allows me to pass under the overpass bridge in the absence of traffic in my lane while at the same time not impeding traffic by my presence.
I do not do this in the face of oncoming traffic, only when the way is clear.
Paul, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Bicyclists break far more traffic rules than cars do. If you can't bring your self to admit that, well-that's where we disagree. As far as motorists doing right turns on red, where I live, that's legal, unless otherwise posted. Cyclists turn right, left, and go straight ahead on red regularly. You have to admit this is true Paul. Don't tell me you haven't seen this, and don't tell me you haven't done it.
I often run red lights on my bike. When I do it, it enhances the flow of traffic and/or my safety.
Oh this is classic-explain how running stop signs and traffic lights makes things safer for you.
I'll give you one example on a route I take on occasion.
I am northwestbound on Oak St. I am the first vehicle caught at the light at the intersection of Oak and S. Carrollton. My destination is the dedicated bike path at the end of Oak. The light is unusually long. If there are no cars coming on Carrollton, I'll go. That way I am well down Oak when the light changes. I hold up no cars and eliminate the possibility of impatient driver brush passing me. Oak is very narrow and most often has cars parked on each side. When I ride into the driving lane beyond the swing radius of the parked car doors (outside the door zone) the road is so narrow that it's too tight for cars to safely pass me. If I wait for the light to turn green the motorists have a choice. Stay behind me or pass unsafely. The end result is that by running the light I enhance my safety and improve overall traffic flow with no risk to anyone.
That's but one of many examples of how I get the hell out of everyone's way and make it better for all of us. You are on record as wishing I'd wait the light out and hold people up.
That’s a situation where I’d run a red light too. Sometimes when I do that I get off and walk across and then get on again on the other side of the intersection.
End result is the same but seems to PO people less.
That’s a situation where I’d run a red light too. Sometimes when I do that I get off and walk across and then get on again on the other side of the intersection.
End result is the same but seems to PO people less.
That overpass scenario you laid out is another one in which I'll run a light if I can safely do so.
Paul, like I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree. This whole thread was started by me due to a bycyclist traveling on the sidewalk on the wrong side of the road. We approached the intersection on a green light and this idiot came from our right, off the sidewalk, and into the crosswalk going right to left on the wrong side of the street. He never slowed down, never looked. We were lucky we saw him and didn't hit him. Never flinched, never looked back, just kept right on going down the wrong side of the road on the sidewalk.
Paul, like I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree. This whole thread was started by me due to a bycyclist traveling on the sidewalk on the wrong side of the road. We approached the intersection on a green light and this idiot came from our right, off the sidewalk, and into the crosswalk going right to left on the wrong side of the street. He never slowed down, never looked. We were lucky we saw him and didn't hit him. Never flinched, never looked back, just kept right on going down the wrong side of the road on the sidewalk.
My wife almost took out a cyclist in a similar situation. He cussed her out. Sidewalk cycling is rife with hazards. Wrong way sidewalk cycling much more so. Adding inattention to that is a deadly combination.
The study suggests that cyclists are less likely to hit cyclists while driving motor vehicles, it does not touch at all upon how many of those same cyclists pull stupid and/or irritating crap while riding their bicycles on the street..
My favorite thing to do with any “pro bicyclists” is to act like I’m gonna stop at a 4 way and when they start pumping I act like I’m gonna just roll through it, the pay off if is when they have their shoes attached to the peddles🤣🤣🤣
The study suggests that cyclists are less likely to hit cyclists while driving motor vehicles, it does not touch at all upon how many of those same cyclists pull stupid and/or irritating crap while riding their bicycles on the street..
I'm not sure how that relates to the fact that when a car and a bike tangle, the bicyclist always loses. It doesn't matter how good the bicyclist is when he's driving a car. What the law says about a bike rider's right to use the road is irrelevant. It doesn't matter where the rumble strips are, or how wide the shoulder is. The mental maturity of the car's driver is not important. The. Bicyclist. Always. Loses.
The study suggests that cyclists are less likely to hit cyclists while driving motor vehicles, it does not touch at all upon how many of those same cyclists pull stupid and/or irritating crap while riding their bicycles on the street..
I'm not sure how that relates to the fact that when a car and a bike tangle, the bicyclist always loses. It doesn't matter how good the bicyclist is when he's driving a car. What the law says about a bike rider's right to use the road is irrelevant. It doesn't matter where the rumble strips are, or how wide the shoulder is. The mental maturity of the car's driver is not important. The. Bicyclist. Always. Loses.
I have heard truckers espouse the same big boy mentality. And you are right, riding in compliance with the law doesn't matter. That is until the wrongful death suit is filed.
Juries tend to be hard on those who cause cyclists deaths. I would imagine more so when their social media rantings expose them as having a cavalier attitude toward cyclists.
Looked like abject stupidity or discourteous riding for the most part. There were several that should not be held up as examples of cyclist stupidity. The clip at the 5 minute mark and the 5:10 mark showed cyclists who had established themselves in the lane and had the right of way. At the 1:10 mark the cyclist provided an example of why cyclist don't like to hug the right. It invites a squeeze pass and leaves no room for error. Further, that cyclist was riding in the door zone. That's something I NEVER do.
Paul you seem to fit the bicyclist train of thought very well, indignant a$$holes every one of them! Where I live they finally put in god damn bike lanes do you think they use them?
Paul you seem to fit the bicyclist train of thought very well, indignant a$$holes every one of them! Where I live they finally put in god damn bike lanes do you think they use them?
I love bicycle lanes. Good ones that is. I have seen too many cyclists summarily dismiss them. Some (few) based on my observations are poorly thought out. Some here in NOLA are completely within the swing radius of car doors. I avoid those. When you get doored, 90% of the time you get knocked out into traffic. A Coast Guard bud of mine got doored and it tore his bicep almost completely in half. He was knocked into a travel lane and were it not for an alert motorist he would have been run over.
Most of the motoring public sees a cyclist avoiding a bike lane and they automatically think "azzhole" You can't really blame them if they don't recognize the threat that a cyclist may see.
You seem to object to my postings. Let me ask you to identify a single point I have made that is incorrect or shows that I am discourteous to other road users. If you are going to hold up my mere presence on the road as an example, then there's not a conversation to be had.
In writing you god damn cyclists always act prim and proper, on the road is where your true colors shine! Something about that seat post up your azz that flips the switch, you people just don’t realize it’s happening.
Dress like Antifa and go where they go you will be associated and thought to be with them, same on a bicycle.
Why does my attire matter? As long as I am in a place I have a legal right to be, and I am behaving in a legal manner why would anyone have a problem with it?
The tight spandex/lycra clothing actually is functional on a couple of levels.
1. Moisture wicking 2. Aerodynamics. Somewhere above 15 mph wind resistance starts to really come into play. 3. Bright colors make them more noticeable to cell phone zombies and others on the road. 4. For some it almost seems to be status signaling. Some of the road bike group are very much elitist and look down on guys like me. They even have a term for us "Freds". A "Fred" (if I understand right doesn't worry about how much his bike weighs or if it has the currently faddish gear, if he wears any bike specific kit at all the colors might or might not match the rest of his stuff. Real cyclists when I ride by have a tendency to ignore me. Considering how much bike traffic I see out here I very seldom actually see riders on the routes I ride.
In the online world bicyclists very much seems to be fairly heavily left politically. A lot of environmentalists and anti vehicle stuff. Some of the Live Car Free types are way out there.
Dress like Antifa and go where they go you will be associated and thought to be with them, same on a bicycle.
Why does my attire matter? As long as I am in a place I have a legal right to be, and I am behaving in a legal manner why would anyone have a problem with it?
Perhaps because the guys on bikes that dress like Birdy don't ride three abreast across a windy road so when I come around a corner on my motorcycle with a girl on the back our lives are not put in danger, Dressing like the spandex fools places you as their associate.. BTW I didn't have time to stop and if a vehicle would have been coming in the opposite direction I would have been forced to hit a bicyclist or oncoming cars. This was not the first time or an isolated incident, Spandex dressing bikers are like pit bulls some may be OK but the percentage of bad ones ruin it for all.
The tight spandex/lycra clothing actually is functional on a couple of levels.
1. Moisture wicking 2. Aerodynamics. Somewhere above 15 mph wind resistance starts to really come into play. 3. Bright colors make them more noticeable to cell phone zombies and others on the road. 4. For some it almost seems to be status signaling. Some of the road bike group are very much elitist and look down on guys like me. They even have a term for us "Freds". A .
5. Not prone to snagging or getting hung up during seating position adjustments.
Dress like Antifa and go where they go you will be associated and thought to be with them, same on a bicycle.
Why does my attire matter? As long as I am in a place I have a legal right to be, and I am behaving in a legal manner why would anyone have a problem with it?
Perhaps because the guys on bikes that dress like Birdy don't ride three abreast across a windy road so when I come around a corner on my motorcycle with a girl on the back our lives are not put in danger, Dressing like the spandex fools places you as their associate.. BTW I didn't have time to stop and if a vehicle would have been coming in the opposite direction I would have been forced to hit a bicyclist or oncoming cars. This was not the first time or an isolated incident, Spandex dressing bikers are like pit bulls some may be OK but the percentage of bad ones ruin it for all.
I get that mentality. Those who would deny us of our gun rights have that mentality.
Dress like Antifa and go where they go you will be associated and thought to be with them, same on a bicycle.
Why does my attire matter? As long as I am in a place I have a legal right to be, and I am behaving in a legal manner why would anyone have a problem with it?
Perhaps because the guys on bikes that dress like Birdy don't ride three abreast across a windy road so when I come around a corner on my motorcycle with a girl on the back our lives are not put in danger, Dressing like the spandex fools places you as their associate.. BTW I didn't have time to stop and if a vehicle would have been coming in the opposite direction I would have been forced to hit a bicyclist or oncoming cars. This was not the first time or an isolated incident, Spandex dressing bikers are like pit bulls some may be OK but the percentage of bad ones ruin it for all.
I get that mentality. Those who would deny us of our gun rights have that mentality.
Night and day, apples to oranges. I can't even recall the last time I saw a gun owner being a jerk with his gun but will see the spandex idiots on bicycles doing just that most weekends if I drive much...Like snowflaks, you'll never figure it out or admit you if have.
Motor vehicles far out number the cyclists I see daily , yet the the number of cyclists I see violating road rules on a daily basis far out number motor vehicle offenders...I say that only because Ive see it happening that way , day after day year after year.
nOt only do they ignore road rules in car lanes and designated bike lanes, they also choose to not use those and instead ride along the pedestrian sidewalk pushing walkers out of the way.
Motor vehicles far out number the cyclists I see daily , yet the the number of cyclists I see violating road rules on a daily basis far out number motor vehicle offenders...I say that only because Ive see it happening that way , day after day year after year.
Odd, and yet its motorists who are killing nearly 40,000 other motorists per year. And when bikes and cars are involved in collisions, it's normally the motorist that is at fault. That despite the fact that many of the cyclists killed ride bikes because they are drunks or otherwise don't have the faculties to hold a license. Never mind that in fatal car/bike crashes the only witness is the car driver. Then when you start looking at the number of people these lawless cyclists kill every year, you get a real handle on the severity of the problem all of you are crying about.
Dress like Antifa and go where they go you will be associated and thought to be with them, same on a bicycle.
Why does my attire matter? As long as I am in a place I have a legal right to be, and I am behaving in a legal manner why would anyone have a problem with it?
Perhaps because the guys on bikes that dress like Birdy don't ride three abreast across a windy road so when I come around a corner on my motorcycle with a girl on the back our lives are not put in danger, Dressing like the spandex fools places you as their associate.. BTW I didn't have time to stop and if a vehicle would have been coming in the opposite direction I would have been forced to hit a bicyclist or oncoming cars. This was not the first time or an isolated incident, Spandex dressing bikers are like pit bulls some may be OK but the percentage of bad ones ruin it for all.
I get that mentality. Those who would deny us of our gun rights have that mentality.
Night and day, apples to oranges. I can't even recall the last time I saw a gun owner being a jerk
Odd, and yet its motorists who are killing nearly 40,000 other motorists per year.
Considering The sheer number of motor vehicles on the road vs bicycles , it not unreasonable that most roads deaths are result of motor vehicle vs motor vehicle.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
And when bikes and cars are involved in collisions, it's normally the motorist that is at fault...
Odd, and yet its motorists who are killing nearly 40,000 other motorists per year.
Considering The sheer number of motor vehicles on the road vs bicycles , it not unreasonable that most roads deaths are result of motor vehicle vs motor vehicle.
You'd think as often as you see bicyclists breaking the law and as big of a deal people make of it you'd see bicyclists at fault more often in fatal accidents.
You'd think as often as you see bicyclists breaking the law and as big of a deal people make of it you'd see bicyclists at fault more often in fatal accidents.
Do you have official data showing motor vehicles are largely at fault when cyclists are involved?
not just deaths, Im talking all road incidents involving motor vehicle vs cyclist.
it could be days or weeks before I see a car run a red light, but I see a good number of city cyclists doing it every single day, morning, noon and night.
proportionally, city cyclists are by far [or overwhelmingly], the biggest road rule offenders I witness on a 7 daily and year round basis.
cyclists running red lights, riding on the sidewalk, riding/using pedestrian crossings, I see numerous instances of each such offence committed every day of the week virtually without fail....yet,Its extraordinarily rare for me to see a motor vehicle committing all those violations.
Where I live the major traffic violations are speeding and slow rolling the 4 way intersection which is about 1/2 mile from the house.
Just about everybody slow rolls the 4 way. I mean everybody bikes, cars, trucks of course our equivalent of a traffic jam is 3 vehicles getting there at the same time.
You'd think as often as you see bicyclists breaking the law and as big of a deal people make of it you'd see bicyclists at fault more often in fatal accidents.
Do you have official data showing motor vehicles are largely at fault when cyclists are involved?
not just deaths, Im talking all road incidents involving motor vehicle vs cyclist.
it could be days or weeks before I see a car run a red light, but I see a good number of city cyclists doing it every single day, morning, noon and night.
proportionally, city cyclists are by far [or overwhelmingly], the biggest road rule offenders I witness on a 7 daily and year round basis.
cyclists running red lights, riding on the sidewalk, riding/using pedestrian crossings, I see numerous instances of each such offence committed every day of the week virtually without fail....yet,Its extraordinarily rare for me to see motor vehicles committing all those violations.
If you'd piddle around on Google, you'd find the same stuff I have read about who is most often at fault in car/bicycle collisions. I see cyclists do the same thing you see them do, and I agree that it happens more frequently in the city. Cyclists break different laws from motorists. I will never roll up to a red light in my car, slow and run it. Not because I don't think I can do it safely, after all we do take the same risk management measures at yield signs, but because I fear a ticket.
On my walk to my truck and on my drive home today I paid attention to motorists and other road users. As I walked the 4 blocks from the office to where I park, at the first crosswalk a small delivery van came flying up to the traffic light and stopped squarely in front of me, blocking the crosswalk. At the second intersection a box truck flat out ran the traffic light and made a right turn. He did give a turn signal. The overwhelming majority of turns and lane changes I saw went unsignalled. I saw several incomplete stops at right turn on reds and stops. I purposefully drove the speed limit and got passed by 90 % of the other motorists. surprisingly few had their phones in their faces. One guy was going 45 down the interstate. I stayed behind him for a bit and sure enough as I moved out to go around and I accelerated, guess what he did? Yep, he sped up. I continued to accelerate until I was doing about 5 over. He paced me. By this time another driver had driven up my ass. Probably mad because I was in the passing lane and not passing. I continued to slow and tuck back in behind the guy who didn't know how fast he wanted to go. A few minutes later he was back don to 45. Another driver shadowed me on the left and drifted into my lane while right beside me. All in all it was a normal drive home. On the drive in this morning there was a near collision just in front of me.
I break the law every damn time I drive or ride and so does every other person I know. If they aren't driving dumb, dangerously, discourteously, drunk or distracted, I don't care who breaks the law.
I suspect that since cyclists are are rarer that we tend to pay more attention to their actions. Next time you drive, pay attention to your own actions. Do you come to a complete stop? Signal every turn and lane change? Never break the speed limit? Pay attention to other drivers. I suspect you'll see what I see, and that is a lot of infractions coupled with some dangerous and discourteous driving that negatively affects you. Today one idiot that refused to turn onto a road despite a 1/4 mile of clear real estate caused me to get caught by a light. I lost 2 minutes of my life to that idiot and that is more than I have been delayed by all cyclists combined over the course of the past decade.
A couple of fruit loops lolly gagging in the crosswalk held me up. The didn't have any license plates strapped to their asses and they didn't pay road and gas tax, yet there they were using the road.
I suspect that since cyclists are are rarer that we tend to pay more attention to their actions.
I notice the unlawful actions of cyclists so much , simply because motor vehicles in my experience do not commit them with any where near the same frequency.
I do not see motor vehicles driving down the sidewalk everyday like I see numerous cyclists doing I do not see motor vehicles running red lights everyday like I see numerous cyclists doing I do not see motor vehicles using pedestrian crossings everyday like I see numerous cyclists doing
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Next time you drive, pay attention to your own actions. ...
I don't run red lights , I don't use a pedestrian crossing while operating a car I don't drive on the sidewalk,
however I witness many city cyclists , do those acts every day year round.
I suspect that since cyclists are are rarer that we tend to pay more attention to their actions.
I notice the unlawful actions of cyclists so much , simply because motor vehicles in my experience do not commit them with any where near the same frequency.
I do not see motor vehicles driving down the sidewalk everyday like I see numerous cyclists doing I do not see motor vehicles running red lights everyday like I see numerous cyclists doing I do not see motor vehicles using pedestrian crossings everyday like I see numerous cyclists doing
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Next time you drive, pay attention to your own actions. ...
I don't run red lights , I don't use a pedestrian crossing while operating a car I don't drive on the sidewalk,
however I witness many city cyclists , do it each and every day year round.
Thank you for making my point that the laws cyclists and motorists break are different. You did it better than I did. You slow roll stops, fail to signal turns and lane changes and speed. Yet you are enough of a hypocrite to complain about cyclist breaking the law. I must say I have an odd admiration for you proudly putting your hypocrisy on parade!
I'm pretty sure riding on the sidewalks is legal in some jurisdictions. I know in Colorado Springs that is true with some limitations depending on signs being posted.
The study suggests that cyclists are less likely to hit cyclists while driving motor vehicles, it does not touch at all upon how many of those same cyclists pull stupid and/or irritating crap while riding their bicycles on the street..
I'm not sure how that relates to the fact that when a car and a bike tangle, the bicyclist always loses. It doesn't matter how good the bicyclist is when he's driving a car. What the law says about a bike rider's right to use the road is irrelevant. It doesn't matter where the rumble strips are, or how wide the shoulder is. The mental maturity of the car's driver is not important. The. Bicyclist. Always. Loses.
I have heard truckers espouse the same big boy mentality. And you are right, riding in compliance with the law doesn't matter. That is until the wrongful death suit is filed.
Juries tend to be hard on those who cause cyclists deaths. I would imagine more so when their social media rantings expose them as having a cavalier attitude toward cyclists.
The jury will never be as hard on the motorist as death is on the cyclist.
If you think fishermen are liars, when is the last time you asked a cyclist how far he road his bike today?
?? When was the last time you asked one?
Anyhow, 55 miles for me, up Rt 84 to Loma. Had to wait for the local bike shop in GF to open at 10, cleared town about 11.
First ten miles or so the truck traffic was so bad and the road and shoulder so narrow I thought about turning back, felt like a hazard to everyone, slow progress bailing off the asphalt every couple of minutes onto grass and gravel impossible to ride. Got better after that, wider shoulder, much less trafficplus I had a tailwind. Felt lousy later on tho, sick, quit with three hours of daylight left but found an ace inexpensive little motel in here in the wide spot on the Marias called Loma. Beautiful evening 😎
You should have ran a broom stick through their spokes 700! There is nothing I despise more than cyclists and their attitudes!
When they park the bike they get in their Prius and assume that smug, holier than thou facial expression when you pass them with your gas guzzler pick-up.
When the wife and I started cycling we both said there was no way that we would be wearing spandex shorts. After the first couple fifty mile rides we changed our minds. Spandex shorts with a chamois pad and plenty of chamois buttr is a necessity if riding over 35 miles.
We rarely ride on the road anymore but will attest that many riders are a-holes. If you think they're bad on the roads, try a bike trail close to a town. We've been run off the trail several times by oncoming riders.
You should have ran a broom stick through their spokes 700! There is nothing I despise more than cyclists and their attitudes!
When they park the bike they get in their Prius and assume that smug, holier than thou facial expression when you pass them with your gas guzzler pick-up.
They can look at me holier than though all they want to. My Ram 1500 gets great economy. This is on a trip from west CO through the mountains of CO into the mountains of NM and into west TX. It hauls 3 bikes in the bed. I am not using my $3000 bikes for a back bumper.
If you think fishermen are liars, when is the last time you asked a cyclist how far he road his bike today?
?? When was the last time you asked one?
Anyhow, 55 miles for me, up Rt 84 to Loma. Had to wait for the local bike shop in GF to open at 10, cleared town about 11.
First ten miles or so the truck traffic was so bad and the road and shoulder so narrow I thought about turning back, felt like a hazard to everyone, slow progress bailing off the asphalt every couple of minutes onto grass and gravel impossible to ride. Got better after that, wider shoulder, much less trafficplus I had a tailwind. Felt lousy later on tho, sick, quit with three hours of daylight left but found an ace inexpensive little motel in here in the wide spot on the Marias called Loma. Beautiful evening 😎
It's no fun regularly bailing to the right, but I will do it too. My last ride in CO was one where I did it. Where are your pics?
When the wife and I started cycling we both said there was no way that we would be wearing spandex shorts. After the first couple fifty mile rides we changed our minds. Spandex shorts with a chamois pad and plenty of chamois buttr is a necessity if riding over 35 miles.
We rarely ride on the road anymore but will attest that many riders are a-holes. If you think they're bad on the roads, try a bike trail close to a town. We've been run off the trail several times by oncoming riders.
Where I just came from in Crested Butte, it's like a modern day Mayberry. The people there are the nicest, happiest people on earth.
That Chamois Butter makes a huge difference. I jumped in a lake halfway through a 100 mile ride. It washed out. I ended up with friction burns on the skin over my sit bones. Probably worse than the carpet burns 700LH gets on his forehead.
The tight spandex/lycra clothing actually is functional on a couple of levels.
1. Moisture wicking 2. Aerodynamics. Somewhere above 15 mph wind resistance starts to really come into play. 3. Bright colors make them more noticeable to cell phone zombies and others on the road. 4. For some it almost seems to be status signaling. Some of the road bike group are very much elitist and look down on guys like me. They even have a term for us "Freds". A .
5. Not prone to snagging or getting hung up during seating position adjustments.
When the wife and I started cycling we both said there was no way that we would be wearing spandex shorts. After the first couple fifty mile rides we changed our minds. Spandex shorts with a chamois pad and plenty of chamois buttr is a necessity if riding over 35 miles.
We rarely ride on the road anymore but will attest that many riders are a-holes. If you think they're bad on the roads, try a bike trail close to a town. We've been run off the trail several times by oncoming riders.
The secret for me is a Brooks (leather) saddle, hard as a rock when new but they break in perfect. That and thin loose fittingnylon pants, no underwear. Works fine for me, never had a problem, even if it’s been two weeks or a month between rides,
Sure I too look silly out there, but it’s a different kind of silly.
Can you imagine a shower every three or four days (often happens on a trip) with them bicycling shorts?
Thin nylon doesn’t hold sweat, rinses out easily in water, put it on wet and it’s dry in 15 minutes. I think lots of people wear those ridiculous cycling outfits because they ain’t aware there’s any other way.
Greasing my a$$ and crotch with “butter”? heck the way I dress I don’t even need sun block. My way ain’t perfect but clearly the cycling community went way off the rails with respect to clothing a loooong time ago.
Likewise those silly shoes that hat clip into the pedals, I ride on regular platform pedals, wearing Crocs. About to put 60 or 70 miles in today on a 80lb bicycle no problem.
Ain’t figured out how to post pics on the Fire from my iPhone. I left my clunky little laptop at my buddy’s house for this brief last leg of the trip. Sure ain’t missing the weight, heavy sumb$tch for its size.
Likewise those silly shoes that hat clip into the pedals, I ride on regular platform pedals, wearing Crocs. About to put 60 or 70 miles in today on a 80lb bicycle no problem.
Mike,
I'm a fan of your endeavors, but you're ignorant of differing cycling goals. There's a chasm between what you do and what I do.
If the speed limit is above 45 MPH bicycles should not be allowed
Just like the anti-gunners. Any magazine over 10 rounds. It's arbitrary but they try to justify it.
Just what entitles you to unlimited access to highways that were built for motorized use? You and your selfish minions won’t let go of your conceived absolute to be somewhere that some have tolerated but you still don’t deserve...
I'm a fan of your endeavors, but you're ignorant of differing cycling goals. There's a chasm between what you do and what I do.
Oh heck J, a highly visible subset of cyclists dress and ride in those otherwise entirely silly outfits, buttered crotch, sunblock and all because it works for a narrow application.
As a group, these people riding in close packs on public highways, also infuriate lots of folks.
With respect to those snap-in pedals I have read the same articles and seen the same YouTubes as everyone else pertaining to their advantage or lack thereof (IIRC the upstroke’s contribution is negligible). I will acknowledge that to have your feet come off the pedals in competition can result in cut-up calves pretty quick (a big reason why you guys also shave your legs, cleaner cuts).
When you do go on tour, ditch all that silly stuff, there’s other ways.
Just as an aside there Rambo, pursuant to the other thread, the folks at the remarkable Shedhorn store in Ennis were friendly and helpful, pointed me to the stuffsack I was looking for at a very reasonable price, my unusual outfit and hat notwithstanding
If the speed limit is above 45 MPH bicycles should not be allowed
Just like the anti-gunners. Any magazine over 10 rounds. It's arbitrary but they try to justify it.
Just what entitles you to unlimited access to highways that were built for motorized use? You and your selfish minions won’t let go of your conceived absolute to be somewhere that some have tolerated but you still don’t deserve...
What entitles me to use roadways designed for multimodal transportation? My tax dollars and the law. Do you have any other questions for which the answer should be painfully obvious?
What entitles me to use roadways designed for multimodal transportation? My tax dollars and the law. Do you have any other questions for which the answer should be painfully obvious?
What is painfully obvious is that your mother dropped you more than once when she was changing your diaper.
Your zeal to defy death and ire of motorists on the road, define you and your stupidity of what you want to consider yours. Show me and everyone here where this highway was designed for people like you to ride your bicycle...
What entitles me to use roadways designed for multimodal transportation? My tax dollars and the law. Do you have any other questions for which the answer should be painfully obvious?
What is painfully obvious is that your mother dropped you more than once when she was changing your diaper.
Your zeal to defy death and ire of motorists on the road, define you and your stupidity of what you want to consider yours. Show me and everyone here where this highway was designed for people like you to ride your bicycle...
Any driver who has an issue with navigating that traffic situation should have their license revoked. Bright yellow and visible for probably a mile away. One oncoming vehicle. Plan ahead. Slow for a brief moment to allow the oncoming vehicle to clear. Then apply gentle pressure to the steering wheel and accelerator (if you can't figure out how to do both at the same time, just do one and then the other) pass at a safe distance, then move back into your lane.
I cannot think of a fully emotionally and intellectually developed man who would take issue with that cyclist as pictured. What a petty life one must live to get worked up over that. Seriously, grow the f#^k up.
Don't know how much you ride your bicycle paulbanard but you sure been riding this thread for all it's worth. Didn't get much attention as a kid did you? Probably didn't have any real life friends neither. Oh well, keep milking away.
Typical of a losing debater, get foul and emotional. You are telling automobile drivers how they are supposed to change their driving to accommodate you, yet in your “multimodal” definition, there is still no evidence of this highway and millions of others that it was designed for you and your cyclist buddies to ride on a public highway without the drivers of cars and trucks to slow and swerve so you can peddle your bike down the road...
And I might mention the tax on fueling just one of my Peterbilts was way more than any bicycle rider ever paid. Ever price out a set of super singles and the excise tax on one of those puppies. You could buy a chitpota of bicycles for that.
After reading all this paulbanard BS, bikers just might want to stay to the right of the fog line for a few days.
Typical of a losing debater, get foul and emotional. You are telling automobile drivers how they are supposed to change their driving to accommodate you, yet in your “multimodal” definition, there is still no evidence of this highway and millions of others that it was designed for you and your cyclist buddies to ride on a public highway without the drivers of cars and trucks to slow and swerve so you can peddle your bike down the road...
I would only ask someone to change their habits if their habits endangered me or other lawful road users. When I drive up behind a slower motor vehicle, I'd like for them to work with me to get me around as soon as they safely can. Most of the time that means they don't have to do a damn thing other than exactly as they are doing when I roll up. I have the same expectation of a cyclist. When I am driving my motor vehicle more slowly with other road users, I will work to get them around me as soon as I safely can. I am the same when I ride my bike.
Do you have an issue with my consistent behavior and expectations?
You have still yet to describe the difficulties you would experience as a driver in the photo you posted. I'll bet you don't care to take and honest shot at that one do you hun?
And I might mention the tax on fueling just one of my Peterbilts was way more than any bicycle rider ever paid. Ever price out a set of super singles and the excise tax on one of those puppies. You could buy a chitpota of bicycles for that.
After reading all this paulbanard BS, bikers just might want to stay to the right of the fog line for a few days.
It sounds like you pay tax at a level that is commensurate with the wear you cause. I mentioned the last rural ride I went on in Colorado was a 61 mile ride. Here's the pic again.
It was a lightly traveled road with no useful area right of the fog line. I encountered few vehicles. When most vehicles approached from behind I rode into the grass on the right, stopped and waved politely as they drove by. I got a friendly reception to my behavior. The only delay I witnessed on that road was this. I noticed no cars had come from behind for 10-15 minutes. Then I heard a big rig coming up from behind beyond the bend. Without hesitation I removed myself from the road. The tractor trailer rig came slowly by with about a dozen autos stacked up behind it. This despite the fact that there were numerous places where the driver could have pulled over to let traffic vent.
I don't let the selfish behavior of others shape my behavior. I just keep right on being polite and accommodating.
Simply the act of me forcing people to slow down is inconsiderate.
If someone has to modify there behavior or actions because of something I am doing....well....I feel that is inconsiderate.
Just me.
I do my level best to keep from slowing anyone down and most consider me anal about it. My wife wonders why I sprint across crosswalks. I am always ready to pay quickly at the end of a register transaction. Before the transaction is over if their machines allow. Our spare time in this crazy world is limited, so I respect others time. But it's also part and parcel of our existence on this heavily populated planet that we cannot plow through life unimpeded.
I apply a standard of reasonableness. To me it's perfectly reasonable that a farmer would move farm equipment down a rural roadway. I do like farm products after all. Especially sheep. It would be unreasonable for that farmer to absolutely disregard other road users in the process. It's perfectly reasonable for an RV driver to go slower than the rest of traffic. Their purchase and travel pumps a lot of much needed money into the economy. It's unreasonable for them to stack traffic up for a mile behind them in between Monarch Pass and Gunnison. Yes I saw that, and it really was a mile.
When I bicycle I will do my level best not to inconvenience anyone. I mentioned this earlier. I will not apologize if someone has to lift off the gas or ease over into the other lane. I don't consider that a heavy lift at all. If I can safely do it I will move my ass off of the road if I think I am going to hold someone up for more than a few fleeting moments. The cyclist in the pic Shrapnel posted was just a non-issue to motorists.
When a standard of reasonableness is applied folks will obviously have different ideas.
You likely wouldn’t enjoy our chance meeting on the road I’m afraid, my diesel exhaust has away of helping you “cyclists” move off to the side of the road, I don’t even have to get out to help you make your decision..
I feel about critical mass like I feel about antifa's road blocking antics. I fully support peaceful protest, but when it causes mass disruption and grossly inhibits other's freedom of movement it is no longer peaceful.
It originated in San Fran, go figure. It's a bunch of butthurt cyclists who congest the streets with bicycles for unknown political purposes and causes. Wiki has an article on it. You can read it and still not understand what critical mass is other than dickholz on bikes making it impossible for other people to use streets.
My wife and are are approaching a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. We have the green light and are set to cross the intersection when from our right, comes a suicidal bicyclist. He's on the sidewalk, then into the cross walk, on the wrong side of the road, and going through a red light, and for that matter, a do not walk light for pedestrians. Cathy locked up the brakes, laid on the horn, gave him the stink eye, and used some sailor's language not fit for your tender ears, gentlemen. She couldn't have missed him by more than 6 inches. The dufus is lucky he's alive. Why is it that bicyclists think the rules of the road never apply to them?
This is the first post of this thread. It's amazing how whenever one of these threads gets started, some cyclist will come along to reinforce everyone's opinions.
It originated in San Fran, go figure. It's a bunch of butthurt cyclists who congest the streets with bicycles for unknown political purposes and causes. Wiki has an article on it. You can read it and still not understand what critical mass is other than dickholz on bikes making it impossible for other people to use streets.
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plainly lots of folks driving 'em don't have much time behind the wheel of a vehicle that size.![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/PJwXLnPv/67639901-10217082226762331-6163272683871010816-n.jpg)
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