|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,250
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,250 |
I am not just speaking out of my ass. I have researched this. The larger the group the greater the time advantage to passing side by side cyclists, but the advantage applies to passing 3 side by side as opposed to strung out. This obviously assumes the motorist has to enter the oncoming lane to safely pass the cyclist. Where there's a useable shoulder or a lane wide enough for a motorist to safely share with the cyclist, then single file is best for the motorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NGdQDEkWCESure, except that in the instance with the riders two up, the motorist was way too damned close while following them. If two had tangled and gone down, the car didn't have enough room to avoid running over them. So car should have started a couple seconds further away. So now it's 18 seconds vs 14. Secondly, here in the US, I'm aware of no laws requiring the motor vehicle to move completely to the other lane. CA requires 3 feet between car and bike, other states require only 2. So there's more time made up not moving fully over into the other lane. Tons of places here where you don't even need to cross the centerline, and yet leave plenty of room to pass a group of single file cyclists. Thirdly, what does the motorist do when something appears suddenly on the left. (or from the right in the English video)? Quite possibly swerves to the right. Where there is now less room for error because the riders are three up. Again, riders potentially getting mangled. Oh sure the motorist may, or may not face civil penalties. I hope the families of those lost take comfort in that. Best remember there's a jury in that civil action. And those people on the jury? They're made up of folks just like the ones found in this thread. So good luck with that massive lawsuit. Oh, and BTW, if you're not riding your bicycle "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway", well here in CA, that's illegal. So, super dooper good luck with that lawsuit... And last, there's the emotional/psychological effect that three riders abreast, blocking the entire lane has, vs those same three riding single file. The former incites the kind of anger found here in the thread. The latter, not nearly as much. Especially if this single file group is entirely within the shoulder. Stay safe out there. Under California law, what does "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" mean when the lane isn't wide enough for a cyclist and motorist to safely share? I rarely ride in groups. When I do it's on lightly traveled roadways. We always single up for motorists. It doesn't save them time, but they feel better about it. As you have correctly identified, it serves the same purpose a pacifier does to a baby. It provides emotional comfort. "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" means the same thing when the lanes are narrow or when they're wide. There are quite reasonable exceptions of course, look at "cvc 21202" for the actual text. Oh, and this section only applies when the cyclists are going slower than the normal speed of traffic. I'm not sure about where you live, but there are a couple roads near where I'm working where cyclists can easily outpace and pass motor vehicles. Though when doing so, I typically did so on the right. CA (and other states) also legally require motorists to pass cyclists safely with some minimum distance between them. So to directly answer your question, when the lane is narrow (not the full roadway) then the motorist must move to some extent (partially or fully) into the oncoming lane. Hopefully nice and safely. Generally not an issue. Gets to be an issue when the entire width of the roadway is narrow, sightlines are limited, and half a dozen or more riders are doing 12 in a 35 mph zone and using the entire lane with half a dozen motorists stacked up behind them. In this instance, the cyclist are violating at least 3 laws: Obstructing traffic, failing to pull over when going slower than normal traffic and more than 5 vehicles are behind you, and not staying to the right of the roadway. Motorists in this instance don't want a "pacifier", they merely need the cyclists to obey the vehicle laws. End of story. Now, riding like this most certainly does not justify intentionally doing harm to the cyclists. However, while passing the above peleton, should a deer jump from the left side of the roadway and the driver instinctively swerve right, running over cyclists, I've got to put a significant portion of the blame on the group of cyclists. Were they single file, staying right - fault solely on the motorist. Regards, Scott
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,151
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,151 |
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does.
The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped.
I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler
to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded. Obviously not through bikes? As part of them should be!
Well we're Green and we're Gold, and we play better when it's cold. All us Cheese heads have our favorite superstar. We love Brett Favre.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,430
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,430 |
Santa really ticked off a bunch of people when he didn't bring them the bike they wanted for Christmas.
Small Game, Deer, Turkey, Bear, Elk....It's what's for dinner.
If you know how many guns you own... you don't own enough.
In God We Trust.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,151
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,151 |
The next thing will be ,why can we ride on the freeway, we pay for that too!!!
Well we're Green and we're Gold, and we play better when it's cold. All us Cheese heads have our favorite superstar. We love Brett Favre.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
The next thing will be ,why can we ride on the freeway, we pay for that too!!! The argument is not what they pay for. Everyone knows that's total bullschit. The argument is that since they are a wheeled vehicle they could be reducing emissions and reduce the amount of traffic in already congested streets and roads. In the simplest of terms, a dumb fugk idea.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,151
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,151 |
If my dad caught me riding my bike on the road when there was a car coming, and I didn’t get off the road, there would has ben hell to pay.
Why can’t you ride a quad on the road, or a snowmobile?
All I’m asking is a little consideration, ride in single file, and hug the shoulder, that’s all!
Well we're Green and we're Gold, and we play better when it's cold. All us Cheese heads have our favorite superstar. We love Brett Favre.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
Why can’t you ride a quad on the road, or a snowmobile?
In some places you can.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,151
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,151 |
Well we're Green and we're Gold, and we play better when it's cold. All us Cheese heads have our favorite superstar. We love Brett Favre.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,250
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,250 |
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does.
The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped.
I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler
to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded. Obviously not through bikes? As part of them should be! Question for you: What would be a reasonable amount for a bicyclist that rides about 3500 miles a year? On a bicycle that's valued at about $500?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,250
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,250 |
The next thing will be ,why can we ride on the freeway, we pay for that too!!! The argument is not what they pay for. Everyone knows that's total bullschit. The argument is that since they are a wheeled vehicle they could be reducing emissions and reduce the amount of traffic in already congested streets and roads. In the simplest of terms, a dumb fugk idea. Not following you. Are you disputing the fact that smaller vehicles reduce the amount of traffic congestion in metropolitan areas? Cuz I've driven amongst the sit-down scooter hordes, and was damned glad all those folks weren't in a car as I was.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091 |
Riding lawnmowers are the slowest on the road.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,250
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,250 |
My wife and are are approaching a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. We have the green light and are set to cross the intersection when from our right, comes a suicidal bicyclist. He's on the sidewalk, then into the cross walk, on the wrong side of the road, and going through a red light, and for that matter, a do not walk light for pedestrians. Cathy locked up the brakes, laid on the horn, gave him the stink eye, and used some sailor's language not fit for your tender ears, gentlemen. She couldn't have missed him by more than 6 inches. The dufus is lucky he's alive. Why is it that bicyclists think the rules of the road never apply to them? Oh, to get the OP:
People are [bleep].
People are stupid
I'm certain he said the former. Pretty darn sure he said the latter. The two non-mutually exclusive statements cover a metric s--t-tonne* of the problems in the world today. *10% bigger than the English s--t-ton..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,509
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,509 |
I am not just speaking out of my ass. I have researched this. The larger the group the greater the time advantage to passing side by side cyclists, but the advantage applies to passing 3 side by side as opposed to strung out. This obviously assumes the motorist has to enter the oncoming lane to safely pass the cyclist. Where there's a useable shoulder or a lane wide enough for a motorist to safely share with the cyclist, then single file is best for the motorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NGdQDEkWCESure, except that in the instance with the riders two up, the motorist was way too damned close while following them. If two had tangled and gone down, the car didn't have enough room to avoid running over them. So car should have started a couple seconds further away. So now it's 18 seconds vs 14. Secondly, here in the US, I'm aware of no laws requiring the motor vehicle to move completely to the other lane. CA requires 3 feet between car and bike, other states require only 2. So there's more time made up not moving fully over into the other lane. Tons of places here where you don't even need to cross the centerline, and yet leave plenty of room to pass a group of single file cyclists. Thirdly, what does the motorist do when something appears suddenly on the left. (or from the right in the English video)? Quite possibly swerves to the right. Where there is now less room for error because the riders are three up. Again, riders potentially getting mangled. Oh sure the motorist may, or may not face civil penalties. I hope the families of those lost take comfort in that. Best remember there's a jury in that civil action. And those people on the jury? They're made up of folks just like the ones found in this thread. So good luck with that massive lawsuit. Oh, and BTW, if you're not riding your bicycle "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway", well here in CA, that's illegal. So, super dooper good luck with that lawsuit... And last, there's the emotional/psychological effect that three riders abreast, blocking the entire lane has, vs those same three riding single file. The former incites the kind of anger found here in the thread. The latter, not nearly as much. Especially if this single file group is entirely within the shoulder. Stay safe out there. Under California law, what does "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" mean when the lane isn't wide enough for a cyclist and motorist to safely share? I rarely ride in groups. When I do it's on lightly traveled roadways. We always single up for motorists. It doesn't save them time, but they feel better about it. As you have correctly identified, it serves the same purpose a pacifier does to a baby. It provides emotional comfort. "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" means the same thing when the lanes are narrow or when they're wide. There are quite reasonable exceptions of course, look at "cvc 21202" for the actual text. Oh, and this section only applies when the cyclists are going slower than the normal speed of traffic. I'm not sure about where you live, but there are a couple roads near where I'm working where cyclists can easily outpace and pass motor vehicles. Though when doing so, I typically did so on the right. CA (and other states) also legally require motorists to pass cyclists safely with some minimum distance between them. So to directly answer your question, when the lane is narrow (not the full roadway) then the motorist must move to some extent (partially or fully) into the oncoming lane. Hopefully nice and safely. Generally not an issue. Gets to be an issue when the entire width of the roadway is narrow, sightlines are limited, and half a dozen or more riders are doing 12 in a 35 mph zone and using the entire lane with half a dozen motorists stacked up behind them. In this instance, the cyclist are violating at least 3 laws: Obstructing traffic, failing to pull over when going slower than normal traffic and more than 5 vehicles are behind you, and not staying to the right of the roadway. Motorists in this instance don't want a "pacifier", they merely need the cyclists to obey the vehicle laws. End of story. Now, riding like this most certainly does not justify intentionally doing harm to the cyclists. However, while passing the above peleton, should a deer jump from the left side of the roadway and the driver instinctively swerve right, running over cyclists, I've got to put a significant portion of the blame on the group of cyclists. Were they single file, staying right - fault solely on the motorist. Regards, Scott As close to the right hand edge as practicable does not apply on a lane to narrow to share. The cyclist can be anywhere within that narrow lane.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,509
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,509 |
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does.
The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped.
I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler
to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded. Obviously not through bikes? As part of them should be! You don't understand how roads are funded.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
Not following you. Are you disputing the fact that smaller vehicles reduce the amount of traffic congestion in metropolitan areas?
Yes.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,132
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,132 |
when i was 6 my friends and i decided to ride our bikes to Dick kleberg park in kingsville tx, down hwy 77, Darrel got hit by a truck and killed. first funeral i ever went to, still remember it. cured me of riding bikes on the high way.
God bless Texas-----------------------
Old 300
I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull
Its not how you pick the booger..
but where you put it !!
Roger V Hunter
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,771
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,771 |
Its pretty fuggin simple.
Airfields are built for air commerce and transportation.
They don't let F'heads recreate on runways, they are for planes, and
necessary support vehicles, only. (With rare special exceptions)
Highways are the same.
Business and transportation.
Bikes, even when being used as transportation (which is not the norm),
impede that intended use.
Your mama told you not to play on the road or in traffic.
She was a smart woman, you should listen.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,771
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,771 |
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does.
The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped.
I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler
to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded. Obviously not through bikes? As part of them should be! You don't understand how roads are funded. Ok dipshit, how are roads funded. But taxes on innertubes and Lycra! How about license fees and fuel taxes? I really don't care if bikes played taxes, they don't belong on the venues created for motorvehicles.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,509
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,509 |
You only pay road taxes because you have licensed an automobile which gives you the right to drive that automobile on the road. You may not hog the road yourself but the majority of the group as a whole does.
The only thing worse than you being on the road is a moped.
I stick to bike trails when I ride a bike, bridel paths when riding horses, trails or motocross tracks when riding dirt bikes etc. now just mostly a four wheeler
to retrieve a deer and a motorcycle for pleasure but you get the idea? Try not to take it personally.
You and several others here don't understand how roads are funded. Obviously not through bikes? As part of them should be! You don't understand how roads are funded. Ok dipshit, how are roads funded. But taxes on innertubes and Lycra! How about license fees and fuel taxes? I really don't care if bikes played taxes, they don't belong on the venues created for motorvehicles. The law disagrees with the whiny entitled cundt.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,509
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,509 |
I had a wonderful ride on a public road today. Nobody commented on my apparel or my sexual preference. Nobody told me to get off the road or to get onto the sidewalk. Nobody buzzed me or ran over me. I made myself very easy to share the road with as always. A few cars were going so slow they held me up. I didn't pitch a fit. I behaved like a man. ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/Znd171DT/67303511-10217032828047394-1032100870524764160-n.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/VL9hJ9xH/67299984-10217032826927366-7224628363355226112-n.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
566 members (10gaugeman, 160user, 204guy, 1234, 16gage, 06hunter59, 52 invisible),
2,301
guests, and
1,264
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,399
Posts18,470,113
Members73,931
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
