Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by Scott_Thornley
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard


I am not just speaking out of my ass. I have researched this. The larger the group the greater the time advantage to passing side by side cyclists, but the advantage applies to passing 3 side by side as opposed to strung out. This obviously assumes the motorist has to enter the oncoming lane to safely pass the cyclist. Where there's a useable shoulder or a lane wide enough for a motorist to safely share with the cyclist, then single file is best for the motorist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NGdQDEkWCE


Sure, except that in the instance with the riders two up, the motorist was way too damned close while following them. If two had tangled and gone down, the car didn't have enough room to avoid running over them. So car should have started a couple seconds further away. So now it's 18 seconds vs 14.

Secondly, here in the US, I'm aware of no laws requiring the motor vehicle to move completely to the other lane. CA requires 3 feet between car and bike, other states require only 2. So there's more time made up not moving fully over into the other lane. Tons of places here where you don't even need to cross the centerline, and yet leave plenty of room to pass a group of single file cyclists.

Thirdly, what does the motorist do when something appears suddenly on the left. (or from the right in the English video)? Quite possibly swerves to the right. Where there is now less room for error because the riders are three up. Again, riders potentially getting mangled. Oh sure the motorist may, or may not face civil penalties. I hope the families of those lost take comfort in that. Best remember there's a jury in that civil action. And those people on the jury? They're made up of folks just like the ones found in this thread. So good luck with that massive lawsuit. Oh, and BTW, if you're not riding your bicycle "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway", well here in CA, that's illegal. So, super dooper good luck with that lawsuit...

And last, there's the emotional/psychological effect that three riders abreast, blocking the entire lane has, vs those same three riding single file. The former incites the kind of anger found here in the thread. The latter, not nearly as much. Especially if this single file group is entirely within the shoulder.

Stay safe out there.



Under California law, what does "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" mean when the lane isn't wide enough for a cyclist and motorist to safely share?

I rarely ride in groups. When I do it's on lightly traveled roadways. We always single up for motorists. It doesn't save them time, but they feel better about it. As you have correctly identified, it serves the same purpose a pacifier does to a baby. It provides emotional comfort.


"as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" means the same thing when the lanes are narrow or when they're wide. There are quite reasonable exceptions of course, look at "cvc 21202" for the actual text. Oh, and this section only applies when the cyclists are going slower than the normal speed of traffic. I'm not sure about where you live, but there are a couple roads near where I'm working where cyclists can easily outpace and pass motor vehicles. Though when doing so, I typically did so on the right.

CA (and other states) also legally require motorists to pass cyclists safely with some minimum distance between them. So to directly answer your question, when the lane is narrow (not the full roadway) then the motorist must move to some extent (partially or fully) into the oncoming lane. Hopefully nice and safely. Generally not an issue. Gets to be an issue when the entire width of the roadway is narrow, sightlines are limited, and half a dozen or more riders are doing 12 in a 35 mph zone and using the entire lane with half a dozen motorists stacked up behind them. In this instance, the cyclist are violating at least 3 laws: Obstructing traffic, failing to pull over when going slower than normal traffic and more than 5 vehicles are behind you, and not staying to the right of the roadway. Motorists in this instance don't want a "pacifier", they merely need the cyclists to obey the vehicle laws. End of story.

Now, riding like this most certainly does not justify intentionally doing harm to the cyclists. However, while passing the above peleton, should a deer jump from the left side of the roadway and the driver instinctively swerve right, running over cyclists, I've got to put a significant portion of the blame on the group of cyclists. Were they single file, staying right - fault solely on the motorist.

Regards,
Scott