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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115 |
My guess is the .29 Creedmoor will be the next best-seller.... It’ll never live up to its older brother, the B-29.... No way. That would be a high bar to hurdle. DF
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,121
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,121 |
You're right, it will be one letter down the alphabet trail--the C-29....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,230
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,230 |
better leave charlies name (initial) off that one.......
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 166
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 166 |
Flip a coin if you're going to handload. I've used the 140 Accubond, 140 Amax and both the 130 and 140 VLD's to hunt deer-size game with the 260. All were dead with one shot. The two calibers you're considering are so close to identical it's not worth stressing. Seriously. 260 brass is easier to come by, and easier to form from 243 than it is to buy 6.5 Creedmoor. That's about it.
Personally I've owned 2 260's and my newest rifle I built in 6.5 Super LR just to do something different, but I imagine performance will be the same.
I would pick whichever one you can get cheaper and/or easier if there's any difference at all.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,121
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,121 |
tikka77,
"Seriously. 260 brass is easier to come by."
I can tell from this that you really are a .260 shooter who has no experience with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Nothing wrong with that, but....
Unless you order .260 brass off the Internet, 6.5 Creedmoor brass is far easier to come by--especially . Not only is easier to find in most gun stores, but you can normally buy bunches of once-fired stuff (usually Hornady, which is very good) on the Campfire Classifieds. This is because 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady ammo is so affordable and accurate that many people just shoot factory, and then sell the brass. And that affordable 6.5 CM ammo (which means brass) is widely available in sporting goods stores, and even Walmart.
Yeah, you can neck up.243 brass, but some .243 brass isn't very good, so you end up with not-very-good .260 brass. I learned this a long time ago after getting my first custom .260. Ended up buying Lapua .243 brass, because Lapua didn't make .260 brass yet. (I now shoot Lapua brass in my present .260, a Tikka T3 Superlite, along with a more recent brand of really good brass.)
Another thing I tried, which worked very well, way back in 2010 after purchasing my first 6.5 Creedmoor, was fire-forming .22-250 brass, just in case Creedmoor brass was difficult to find. This worked very well with the Cream of Wheat method, and I reported on it in an article for HANDLOADER magazine. But I never did it again, because very soon there was zero difficulty in finding 6.5 Creedmoor brass.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,867
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,867 |
Hornady did an awesome job of marketing, including offering load data that would shoot in most any decent barrel. Remington, on the other hand, did not.
History would seem to indicate that one of Remington's main goals has been to create cartridges with short life spans.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115 |
Hornady did an awesome job of marketing, including offering load data that would shoot in most any decent barrel. Remington, on the other hand, did not.
History would seem to indicate that one of Remington's main goals has been to create cartridges with short life spans. May not have been their goal, but sure became a repeatable phenomenon. DF
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,379 |
They are in a slump recently but from those I can remember off the top of my head they're batting about .529 lifetime average. Folks can add the RUM's where they want, too close for me to call. Feel free to add any that I've missed.
Home runs:
.223 Remington
.22-250 Remington
.25-06 Remington
7mm Remington Magnum
7mm-08 Remington
44 Remington Magnum
Base Hits:
.17 Remington (this could be out at first, contested call by the ump)
.221 Remington Fireball
.416 Remington Magnum
.41 Remington Magnum
Strikeouts:
.350 Remington Magnum
6.5 Remington Magnum
.260 Remington
.224 Remington/6mm Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
Good effort but out at first:
.280 Remington
7mm SAUM
300 SAUM
.30 Remington and .35 Remington - from the before times, one gone but the other still doing well so call them a wash.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115 |
They are in a slump recently but from those I can remember off the top of my head they're batting about .529 lifetime average. Folks can add the RUM's where they want, too close for me to call. Feel free to add any that I've missed.
Home runs:
.223 Remington
.22-250 Remington
.25-06 Remington
7mm Remington Magnum
7mm-08 Remington
44 Remington Magnum
Base Hits:
.17 Remington (this could be out at first, contested call by the ump)
.221 Remington Fireball
.416 Remington Magnum
.41 Remington Magnum
Strikeouts:
.350 Remington Magnum
6.5 Remington Magnum
.260 Remington
.224 Remington/6mm Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
Good effort but out at first:
.280 Remington
7mm SAUM
300 SAUM
.30 Remington and .35 Remington - from the before times, one gone but the other still doing well so call them a wash.
.416 Rem Mag seems to be successful, popular in Africa. DF
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,379 |
Ground rule double, perhaps? 
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115 |
Ground rule double, perhaps?  Maybe... DF
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,847
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,847 |
The only "hype" I've seen on the creed has been all the whining about the "hype" that doesn't exist....self full filling prophecy if there ever was one... creating an argument for a debate that never existed.
The 6.5 Creedmoor's virtues as a hunting cartridge are exactly what I started in other posts, and have stated many other times in print:
1) It provides superb accuracy with inexpensive factory ammo in inexpensive rifles.
2) The cartridge kicks lightly enough for even hunters who MIGHT be recoil-sensitive to practice sufficiently to shoot accurately in the field, and bullet placement is far more important than any other factor in killing power.
3) It does this with bullets that have sufficiently high ballistic coefficients to catch up to bullets from harder-kicking cartridges in the same caliber-class within 300 yards or so, though of the bullets also work close up, as have from moderate velocity 6.5mm rounds for a long time.
4) It does this without the need to handload, or buy ammo that costs 2-3 times as much, or "build" a custom rifle.
All of these reasons are exactly why the 6.5 Creedmoor has become so popular here in Montana, particularly as a cartridge for kids and wives and girlfriends, where it's largely taken over the former role of the .243 Winchester. But quite a few he-men have also bought one too, after they see how well it works as a general big game round. The same reasons are the 6.5 Creedmoor is popular not just in Montana but many other states, including Europe and Africa.
Many of those guys have not ever become acquainted with the .260 or 6.5x55, or they would have known how well such rounds work for hunting big game. But they didn't try them, because Remington screwed up the .260's introduction from the get-go, and the 6.5x55 has been around so long there are wide variations in not only rifle chamber-throats but factory ammo--when you can find factory ammo that isn't downloaded 300 fps below 6.5 Creedmoor and .260 velocities.
Many Campfire people keep posting that they're NOT buying one, because their (pick one) .257 Roberts, .257 Weatherby, .270 Winchester, 7mm-08 etc. etc. etc. does the same things. Yeah, those cartridges will kill game just as well, but do not have the list of other 6.5 Creedmoort attributes: affordable, accurate and easily available rifles and factory ammo.
Apparently, rifle loonies simply cannot understand those simple concepts, because long ago they decided on a cartridge that was "perfect." Well, sure, especially if you're a handloader, or "custom" rifle nut. But apparently some of those cartridges and rifles do not appeal to a LOT of other hunters and shooters, for the reasons I stated. Otherwise the .257 Roberts, .257 Weatherby, .270 Winchester, 7mm-08 etc. etc. etc., would be selling like the 6.5 Creedmoor has for the past decade.
This quote needs to be made into a sticky. Every time the "why creed?" question pops up this sticky should be automatically posted and the thread closed..... ....For the love of Elmer Keith! How many times must Mule Deer explain this shiet?!
“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”
― G. Orwell
"Why can't men kill big game with the same cartridges women and kids use?"
_Eileen Clarke
"Unjust authority confers no obligation of obedience."
- Alexander Hamilton
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,184
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,184 |
NH gunsmith and competitive shooter Larry Racine "invented" a 6.5mm bore cartridge for competitive shooting, the 6.5x51 LPR, that he claims, or claimed, was a better mousetrap. IIRC, the parent case was the 6.5x55.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115 |
Well, when people get past emotion and down to fact and logic.... But, some don't seem capable of making that transition... It's hard to sell a Chevy guy on the merits of an F-150... And, don't even mention Dodge...  DF
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,539
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,539 |
The only "hype" I've seen on the creed has been all the whining about the "hype" that doesn't exist....self full filling prophecy if there ever was one... creating an argument for a debate that never existed
The 6.5 Creedmoor's virtues as a hunting cartridge are exactly what I started in other posts, and have stated many other times in print:
1) It provides superb accuracy with inexpensive factory ammo in inexpensive rifles.
2) The cartridge kicks lightly enough for even hunters who MIGHT be recoil-sensitive to practice sufficiently to shoot accurately in the field, and bullet placement is far more important than any other factor in killing power.
3) It does this with bullets that have sufficiently high ballistic coefficients to catch up to bullets from harder-kicking cartridges in the same caliber-class within 300 yards or so, though of the bullets also work close up, as have from moderate velocity 6.5mm rounds for a long time.
4) It does this without the need to handload, or buy ammo that costs 2-3 times as much, or "build" a custom rifle.
All of these reasons are exactly why the 6.5 Creedmoor has become so popular here in Montana, particularly as a cartridge for kids and wives and girlfriends, where it's largely taken over the former role of the .243 Winchester. But quite a few he-men have also bought one too, after they see how well it works as a general big game round. The same reasons are the 6.5 Creedmoor is popular not just in Montana but many other states, including Europe and Africa.
Many of those guys have not ever become acquainted with the .260 or 6.5x55, or they would have known how well such rounds work for hunting big game. But they didn't try them, because Remington screwed up the .260's introduction from the get-go, and the 6.5x55 has been around so long there are wide variations in not only rifle chamber-throats but factory ammo--when you can find factory ammo that isn't downloaded 300 fps below 6.5 Creedmoor and .260 velocities.
Many Campfire people keep posting that they're NOT buying one, because their (pick one) .257 Roberts, .257 Weatherby, .270 Winchester, 7mm-08 etc. etc. etc. does the same things. Yeah, those cartridges will kill game just as well, but do not have the list of other 6.5 Creedmoort attributes: affordable, accurate and easily available rifles and factory ammo.
Apparently, rifle loonies simply cannot understand those simple concepts, because long ago they decided on a cartridge that was "perfect." Well, sure, especially if you're a handloader, or "custom" rifle nut. But apparently some of those cartridges and rifles do not appeal to a LOT of other hunters and shooters, for the reasons I stated. Otherwise the .257 Roberts, .257 Weatherby, .270 Winchester, 7mm-08 etc. etc. etc., would be selling like the 6.5 Creedmoor has for the past decade. This quote needs to be made into a sticky. Every time the "why creed?" question pops up this sticky should be automatically posted and the thread closed..... ....For the love of Elmer Keith! How many times must Mule Deer explain this shiet? This whole thing is like a tired joke, and NO we don't need a sticky on the same dumb theme, and Mule Deer doesn't need to explain anything about it ever again because any shooter with insight and balance already knows that stuff.. How many pages and pages arguing/discussing the tiny differences between a modern fad good cartridge and others just as good (or better?) that have been with us for quite a while - even if only for 100 years!! It's not worth the time or effort to figure it out, but it might be nice to understand why any grown guy can get so revved up, insulted, butt-hurt, whatever and feel intensely inclined to mount such defenses/offenses over one more 6.5
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,526
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,526 |
About five years ago, an friend on another website bought a Savage 99 .243, or so he thought. Someone had the barrel rebored to .260. After abortive attempts to shoot some .243 ammo in it (the rebore wasn't re-stamped), we figured out what it was, and he got some proper ammo going, and he went out and killed a deer or two with it. He was happy, I was happy. and the deer were not happy.
I doubt anyone could get him to swap out that rifle for a Creed now. He's a .260 fan..................
As for me, I'll just stick with my old, decrepit, paid-for .270, as it works, too.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,138
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,138 |
Well, when people get past emotion and down to fact and logic.... But, some don't seem capable of making that transition... It's hard to sell a Chevy guy on the merits of an F-150... And, don't even mention Dodge... DF DF, WTH do "fact and logic" have to do with anything posted here, especially up here at the top in the funny pages? Geno PS.................................................. TOYOTA PPS and Stihl.
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,115 |
Well, when people get past emotion and down to fact and logic.... But, some don't seem capable of making that transition... It's hard to sell a Chevy guy on the merits of an F-150... And, don't even mention Dodge... DF DF, WTH do "fact and logic" have to do with anything posted here, especially up here at the top in the funny pages? Geno PS.................................................. TOYOTA PPS and Stihl. You may have a point... Tundra or Taco? DF
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,138
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,138 |
Honestly, from what I've heard I'd prefer one of those overseas Hilux diesels I've heard such good things about. Presently a Tacoma, but if I was ever in the market for a larger truck I'd be looking for a pre-2006 Dodge diesel. Or a Tundra! But, back on topic.............a 9.3 Creed, shorter case so I can use 350gr VLD lead free bullets (Cali requirement now ya' know)without intruding on powder space and shoot stuff a half mile away. Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,499
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,499 |
Hornady did an awesome job of marketing, including offering load data that would shoot in most any decent barrel. Remington, on the other hand, did not.
Ding ding ding. Still love my 260, dont think I would trade it for a Creed.
There is no way to coexist no matter how many bumper stickers there are on Subaru bumpers!
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