I've owned a number of 6.5s over the years including the 260 Rem. Comparing the ballistics to the 6.5 C, I really don't see what the fuss is all about with the Creedmoor, on paper, they look about the same. Can someone educate me as to why the Creedmoor is all everyone talks about these days?

Honey, fire up the popcorn popper.

Short version: Creedmoor has a shorter case with almost the same capacity as the .260 so it can utilize longer, higher BC bullets in a short action.

Hornady did an awesome job of marketing, including offering load data that would shoot in most any decent barrel. Remington, on the other hand, did not.

In before FG

Stihl.

Creedmoors are like fishing lures. Some catch more fishermen than fish. Hasbeen

This piece by Zak Smith is a great read.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

Finally someone comes up with an original topic on the Campfire.

Merits of the 260 vs 6.5CM? Hmmm..... Anybody think Romney has what it takes to beat Obama?

Just like all of the past "super" rounds (204 Ruger is an example), marketed by the magazine writers and the herd follows.

This going to be interesting due to the fact that there are many informed reloaders on this board.
I own two 6.5 firearms. One is a 260AI on a Remington 700 mountain rifle and a 260AI on an XP-100R platform. Now, this is approx. 5% larger than the standard 260 cartridge. But, accuracy is incredible.
Now, as for the 6.5 Creedmore, 260 and 260AI, there is relatively the same water volume for each with approx. 5% difference.
IMHO, I believe it all comes down to marketing. MTG

WTF: IF... YOU are inferring that the 204 Ruger is NOT an exceptional cartridge (and it appears that you are!) in virtually every respect, then you simply DO NOT know what you are blathering about!
The 204 Ruger is one of the finest cartridges EVER invented and I thank the "magazine writers" for alerting me to its merits and performance.
I currently own and shoot 7 (seven!) Varmint Rifles in caliber 204 Ruger and each and every one of them is VERY accurate and the cartridge never ceases to amaze me in the field with its superb performance there as well.
Your contentions regarding the 204 Ruger and "shooters" and gun writers" I consider to be blather and balderdash - nothing more nothing less.
Long live the 204 Ruger.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Many folks don't care for Glocks either. Too useful.



mike r

Sorry about that, I didnt realize that it made your coffee for you in the morning.

Unless one is trying to shoot long, VLD type bullets in a short action, there is no advantage of one or the other.

The 6.5 Creed is a slightly modified 260-- so-- an answer looking for a question--

3" magazine box go with a 260

2.8" magazine box go with the Creedmoor

With 130 gr or lighter bullets the 260 has a slight edge. Target shooters wanted to shoot LONG 140-150 gr bullets and found that they the long bullets took up too much powder space if seated deep enough to fit standard 260 magazines or chambers reducing usable powder space. Plus the barrels were not twisted right. The solution was custom built 260's with correctly twisted barrels, long throats, and modified magazines. Hand loaded ammo was loaded to much longer OAL than standard. Make those modifications to a 260 and it does everything a 6.5 CM does.

The 6.5 CM just does the same thing with off the shelf rifles and ammo.

I was an early user of the 260, my first, a Model 7 SS was booked into my FFL on 10/14/97. The perfect rifle for me, but nobody, retail or wholesale, had any ammo. Necessity being the mother of invention, I bought a set of dies, 100 Winchester/Olin 243 cases, some projectiles from Hornady and Nosler, and reread Ken Waters' article onf the 263 Express. I knew from experience loading for the 6.5x55 and 6.5-284 that the 129 grain Hornady SpirePoint was an accurate hunting bullet and so it was. In either late 1997 or early 1998 I was finally able to get a few boxes of Remington 140 grain factory ammo. Talk about disappointing performance! I was getting around 2,500 fps from a 20" barrel and while I didn't expect it to reach 3,000 fps with a 140 grain bullet, I did think that somewhere between 2,700 and 2,800 fps was doable. I bought the ammo off a dealer's shelf and got ammo from 3 different lots, all of which were slower than expected.

As noted previously, Hornady did a great job launching and supporting the 6.5 Creedmoor and Remington did a really poor job launching the 260. Remington's launch and support was so poor, I have to wonder if someone at Remington purposely made all the wrong choices whenever there was a choice to be made.

The other tangible advantage that the 6.5 Creedmoor has over the 260 is the wide variety of factory ammo from multiple manufacturers that is priced as low as $14 per box at Wal-Mart. I've never seen a box of 260 ammo at a Wal-Mart, never.

EDIT: As launched and for many years afterward, Remington made their 260s with a 1-9" ROT, marginal for many bullets weighing over 130 grains.

Haaaaaa ha

I have 3 creedmoors none shoot MOA , 5 - 260's 2 lever action,, #1 ,, xp-100 , and a double barrel all shoot 1/4 moa in any conditions when i do my part .

Most inane comment of the thread, thus far.

I just UN-friended you mister !!!!!!!!!!

Have posted this before, which mostly applies to this same tired subject:

The 6.5 Creedmoor did NOT appear 2-3 years ago, and become popular because of "marketing hype." Instead it was introduced in 2007 as a target round. Then some hunters started using it, and discovered it worked very well, in fact better than already established 6.5mm rounds with the same basic ballistics.

This was because Hornady made very accurate factory ammo which didn't cost much, and the first factory hunting rifles were very accurate, and not just with handloads but that factory ammo. This is very different than what Remington did with the .260, with it's 1-9 twist and often mediocre factory ammo--that after a few years you couldn't buy (if you could find it) in anything except the 140 Core-Lokt.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is also VERY different than the 6.5x55, because 6.5x55 chambers and actions have varied so widely since 1892 that nobody can make factory ammo that works anywhere nearly as well as 6.5 Creedmoor ammo in various 6.5x55 rifles. This is a major point that many rifle loonies miss, because they assume EVERYBODY handloads, and probably for a custom rifle, or at least a "tuned" factory rifle.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is VERY accurate in just about any rifle, and there's a wide variety of pretty inexpensive factory ammo available loaded with an incredibly wide variety of both match and hunting bullets. I know all this because of having owned many 6.5 rifles over the years, including several factory and custom .260's and 6.5x55's (as well as other 6.5's), plus actually owning, shooting and hunting with several 6.5 Creedmoors. In fact the very first 100-yard group I fired with my first 6.5 Creedmoor, a factory Ruger, back in 2010, was with Hornady factory ammo. It measured around .6 inch--for 5 shots, not the typical three shots most hunters shoot today.

All of this also why the 6.5 Creedmoor has become one of the standard world-wide cartridges chambered in factory rifles, which means not just in America but Europe and elsewhere. One of my friends is a long-time South African professional hunter who also owns a big sporting goods store. He reports that around 80% of the new rifles he sells these days are 6.5 Creedmoors--because they work, whether with factory ammo or handloads.

Let me conclude by stating that while I really like the 6.5 Creedmoor, I'm a gun writer. My job is to try new stuff to see how it works, in order to explain to readers its pros and cons. That's why I tried the 6.5 Creedmoor, along with various other new cartridges that have appeared over the decades. Often I wait a year or two after the introduction, to see if they're still hanging around. In the instance of the 6.5 Creedmoor I waited three years, until 2010--and it's far more popular now than then. In the interim I've fooled with around ten 6.5 Creedmoor rifles, half of them purchased by me, so know far more about it than those who've never even fired one.

During that period I also didn't sell my custom 6.5x55, acquired another .260 (which I still have), and also did not sell my .257 Roberts or .270. Again, that's because I'm a gun writer whose job is to keep investigating and learning--and bullets, powder and even rifling twists continually appear that make even very old cartridges work a little better.

Since 2010, when I took my first big game with the 6.5 Creedmoor (a pronnghorn) I've used the following cartridges to take a bunch of other big game animals, both in North America and Africa, with cartridges as diverse as the .22-250 Remington, .243 Winchester, .257 Roberts, .25-06 Remington, .257 Weatherby Magnum, 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, 6.5x57R Mauser, 6.5x55 Norwegian/Swedish, 6.5 PRC, .270 Winchester, 7mm Weatherby Magnum, .308 Winchester, .30-06 Springfield, .338 Winchester Magnum, 9.3x62 Mauser and .416 Rigby. (Oh, and a few more with the 6.5 Creedmoor, as well as being next to hunting companions who used the 6.5 Creedmoor.)

Guess what? They all worked. Are they then better than the 6.5 Creedmoor, or just as good? It's not my job to answer that question--though apparently it IS the job of Internet experts who've never fired a Creedmoor. Many of these are also convinced that some ancient round (perhaps even an obscure wildcat) or powder or bullet they started using years ago is all anybody NEEDS. That's a pretty common among rifle loonies, and if it makes them happy, then why not?

But apparently it doesn't make all of them happy, or even most of 'em. Instead it makes them grumpy, apparently because the rest of the world doesn't consider them THE expert on every aspect of hunting rifles, because they've killed animals with their favorite cartridge, powder or bullet.

Guess what? I don't really care what somebody else uses to kill big game. Once again, that's not my job. Instead my job is to relay information I've confirmed at the range or in the field. I am NOT somebody who's believes the a 6.5 Creedmoor is the best general-purpose hunting round, just somebody who has actually used the cartridge enough to understand why it's so popular.

I rest my case.

So were does the .264 Win Mag fit into the discussion?

His soulmate Lafonda helps with wind calls - it's 6.5 creedmoor match made in Heaven ..

this one time,...at band camp....

I've been a 6.5MM junkie since the early 1970's when I bought a Remington 700 BDL rifle chambered in 6.5 Rem Magnum. I liked it enough that I bought a 264 Win Mag a few years later.

The 264 was followed by a 6.5x55 Swede, a 6.5x284, a 6.5-06, and later by a 260 Rem. I followed up with a 6.5 Creedmoor when they first became available.

Today I still own the original 6.5 Rem Mag, 2- 264 Win Mags, 2-6.5x55 Swedes, one 6.5x284, one 6.5-06, one 260 Rem, and one 6.5 CM. Of the bunch, I generally grab the Sako AV 6.5x55 Swede simply because I like the rifle the best of the bunch. All of them will do basically the same thing - within reason - with varying velocities and bullets, and IMO, the bullets are what makes all of the 6.5 cartridges extremely versatile. Anything from a 129 grain bullet to a 160 grain bullet will kill anything you might encounter in North America.

Pick the one you decide is best with a good bullet for what you're hunting and it probably won't fail you.

A double rifle that shoots quarter MOA groups must be one of a kind. Who made it?

You must have had bad luck, picking 3 lemons, when buying rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor.

The first 6.5 Creedmoor that I bought, a V2, has been the most accurate straight out of the box rifle that I've yet to own. It has shot almost every brand and style of factory ammo that I've shot from it MOA or better. The only factory ammo that it hasn't done that well with was some American Eagle 140 grain HPs. It must be that particular combination, 'cause that same ammo, from the same lot, has gone MOA or better in rifles from Remington, Ruger, and Savage.

I'll withhold comments until Shrapnel chimes in then I'll just say +1.....

I am sticking with my old school 7x57 AI

More efficient, faster twist barrels, less intrusion into the case with long high B.C. bullets, sharper shoulder for solid seating.

These things make a difference, but it is a small difference. Probably in most applications the average shooter won't notice them. The fact is I tend to think when the round came off the custom gunsmiths bench and went to mass production some of these advantages were lost.

I tend to think if I took 50 of each, given the same rifling twist, and locked them in a machine rest the graph of the results probably would be nearly identical.

Its La-fawn-duh, dude.

One thing's for sure, these arguments have been around since the metallic cartridge came into existence and they will remain forever.

Thanks Mule Deer for a great post.

Since I have neither it matters little to me it seems twist plays into it, Rem has a bad habit of using slow twists making heavy bullets less accurate
If I come up with a 6.5 it would probably be a rebored handi, so it would have to be the. 260. Like I need another gun or caliber

Armednfree,

Your thought is incorrect. ("I tend to think if I took 50 of each, given the same rifling twist, and locked them in a machine rest the graph of the results probably would be nearly identical.")

I have now owned 5 assembly-line produced 6.5 Creedmoors, mostly because the first one shot so well (with factory ammunition) that I had to see if others would. So far none of them have cost over $650 new, and a couple have been less than $400. The LEAST accurate would put 5 shots inside an inch at 100 yards, again with factory ammo.

I also have considerable experience with various other 6.5's, and in fact right now own a custom, Lilja-barreled 6.5x55, chambered with a special "target" reamer. It shoots well, but even with handloads is in the middle of the pack of factory 6.5 Creedmoors I've owned. Also have a Tikka .260, which shoots very well with handloads, but I had to work over the magazine to get even common hunting bullets to seat near the lands--where they shoot best. Have owned a bunch of other 6.5x55's and .260's over the years, including both factory and custom, and while they shot well with handloads, with factory none of them came close to "affordable" 6.5 Creedmoors.

Again, this is major factor in the 6.5 Creedmoor's popularity--which none of the avid handloaders on the Campfire who've never shot a 6.5 Creedmoor will apparently ever begin to comprehend. Which is why threads like this keep reappearing: All you guys get to roll out the same rants, which must be fun, somehow or other.

Like the TAC deniers who keep using H335 ...

oh .

It must be the End All Be All. The gun company’s have reached a plateau, the apex. the end of the line in development. No need to go any further.

Marketing and the rags will really have to get creative to stay afloat. Maybe they will focus on retro guns and cartridges and drive the collectors market higher.

Yep....

Seems like the Elmers on this board keep reproducing....

I owned a Model 16 Savage Weather Warrior in 6.5 Creed that was really accurate with a Varget load and 120 Barnes or 123 Lapua. Pretty close to .270W in killing power and about .243W in recoil. I never did love it and preferred my .30-06 so I let a lady deer hunter have it for the price of a new one. She also paid new price for the scope and everything else including the handloads. By the way, it wouldn't shoot 140s worth a crap. As to 6.5 caliber in the Grendel. My neighbor who I go on hog patrol with almost every day bought a Grendel in AR. We made a 129 Nosler load and a 129 Hornady Interlock SP load that seems to me to hang with a .308W in trajectory. Haven't shot it through a chrony. The more we shoot hogs with it the more I'm impressed. Not a one has gotten away and we've had several 300+ yard kills resting the rifle on the truck hood. Recoil is minimal and the hogs go down. I know this is limited testing and anecdotal but it seems the Grendel delivers a lot with little recoil and I can't see where the Creed did any better as far as killing game. I'm beginning to believe in the inherent superiority of 6.5 bullets and if I were buying a big game rifle for a kid or lady the Grendel in a bolt gun would be my choice.

The same can be said for my four .223 bolt guns or my 25-06's or my .308's but they are old and not worthy of mentioning anymore.

Rant? From what I've seen in both long range and hunting circles in my area, most shooters of a 6.5 Creedmoor take to much stock in their computer generated ballistics done on their smart phone. Thinking that rifle will make them the best shot in the county. Yeah right

Antelope with a 6.5 Creedmoor? Antelope ? Really ? I've shot all mine with a .223. An antelope is hardly IMO opinion "big game". Big gopher maybe

Hey now, be nice. Thar ain't nuthin' TAC can do that H335 and a couple quarts of bore cleaner cain't do just as well.....

Bitter old white guys clinging to their God and their guns.....

and their .260s😛

As a certified bitter old white guy, I fully understand such feelings, but appreciate new stuff for the advantages offered, and don't naysay obvious progress. There can be good solid reasons for sticking with what's been working for you without having to piss and moan about new stuff.

When I started itching all over for a new, light .24, I bought a 6 CM, but then turned around and bought another "outdated" .243 because I got a great deal on a compelling rifle. Plan to use both to their best advantage, and mine.

My first rifle was a .260 and what I learned to reload with.

Same/same but if starting anew the Creed checks many more boxes....

Have a great fall...

[quote=260Remguy]

EDIT: As launched and for many years afterward, Remington made their 260s with a 1-9" ROT, marginal for many bullets weighing over 130 grains.[/quote
more than just marginal more like plain inadequate. My SA M700 with a ss 260 Rem barrel off a Mountain rifle has the 1in 9 twist and plain doesn't shoot much over 100 grs with a damn. MB

7mm-08, bitches!

My old Mountain Rifle shoots 140 Amax, 140 Partitions and 140 Hornady SP’s excellent. The main 2 bullets I shoots are the 129 Hornady and the 120 Nosler BT.


I wonder if your barrel is a 10 twist.

More nomenclature panty waddin.

I did the same thing to mine to run 140gr VLDs (also modified the bolt stop) before the Creedmoor craze, and don't feel the need to change.

Dude, it’s a fuggin creedmore, it just has more ump and magical powers no other cartridge has ever had nor is capable of having!

Drifting off topic. My brother and I were talking about going for antelope. I was thinking a fast twist 22-250 would be the ticket. I was thinking a 65 gr. SBT GameKing would work well.

I'm still waiting for Shrap to chime in...

"The 257 Roberts is my Creedmoor. It's better because it's older."

Close enough?

recoiljunky,

Where did this come from? It certainly wasn't in my post. "Antelope with a 6.5 Creedmoor? Antelope ? Really ? I've shot all mine with a .223. An antelope is hardly IMO opinion "big game". Big gopher maybe."

While the 6.5 Creedmoor certainly works on antelope (I've used it myself), have also seen it work fine on big mule deer and bull elk. This isn't surprising, since the 6.5x55 (and similar 6.5's like the .260) have been doing the same thing for quite a while.

I hope the trend continues.


Personally I would like to see some more light weight .264 offerings.


120 grains and down.

What's missing in those weights that you'd like to see?

I would like to see a cup and core offering in the 100 grain range that is cheaper and easier to find than the 100 grain Ballistic Tip.


Heck....a 90 or and 85 grain hunting bullet would be good too.

One more general observation: Where were all you guys when the .300 WSM became the screaming rage after it was introduced in 2001?

I joined the Campfire in 2001, and hardly saw any rants about how all the .300 WSM did was duplicate the ballistics of the .300 H&H, which had been around almost as long as the 6.5x55. Why not? Were you only 50 then, so hadn't yet the old man's tendency to rant about anything new?

Might also note that while the .300 WSM is still around 18 years later, the big sales boom only lasted a few years., and I believe the .300 Winchester Magnum is outselling it now.

But 6.5 Creedmoor sales have been growing since it was introduced in 2007. Partly that's because it did NOT appear 2-3 years ago as many people seem to believe, and there was NOT a bunch of publicity surrounding its introduction, as there was with the .300 WSM, because it was introduced as a target round. It wasn't until hunters started trying it and began reporting how well it worked that rifles companies started introducing many hunting models, and the round really took off.

I bought the first hunting rifle chambered for the 6.5 Creedmoor that I ever laid eyes on, a new Ruger 77 Hawkeye with a (gasp!) walnut stock. It was in a local sportings goods store, and the guy who ran the gun department (whose idea of a new-fangled rifle cartridge is the .280 Remington) told me other folks were reporting great accuracy.

But I didn't just go ahead and buy it. Instead I phoned one of my magazine editors and asked if he would be interested in an article on the 6.5 Creedmoor. He was, so I bought it, and some factory ammo. The very first group it shot at 100 yards, with that ammo, was .6 inch--and that was FIVE shots, on three.

That editor eventually (like some of you guys) eventually grew sick of hearing about 6.5 Creedmoor, so decided not to run any more articles on it unless he absolutely had to. However, about a month ago he called me and ASKED me to include some 6.5 Creedmoor results in an upcominhg article on some new bullets. Why? Because readers had started complaining that they weren't getting enough 6.5 Creedmoor information in the magazine.

So no, the 6.5 Creedmoor's popularity wasn't due to an intense PR campaign to turn it into the latest fad. Instead the interest grew from people who started using it for hunting, and unlike many other rounds that did turn out to be fads or semi-fads, sales continue to grow 12 years after it appeared. This many not make you happy, but so far I haven't heard of anybody FORCING shooters to buy 6.5 Creedmoors.

Never bought one. Why? because a 300 Weatherby, Winchester or H&H are better and they no feeding issues. As to the Creedmoor, I don't have one because EVERYONE now does...Even if it is arguably the best cartridge introduced since the 257 Weatherby

I don't have one.

I would own one....but I have not gotten around to it.

I bought a meat grinder and a smoker instead.


I do have a 6.5 Grendel and would like to see more light weight hunting options for it.



A Howa Mini in 6.5 Grendel with a 100 grain deer bullet should be the new standard for starting a kid hunting.


Just say no to a 94 Winchester for kids!

Then there is the nice shooting 6.5 Grendel.

Ammo can be had from the 90 grain to the 129 and i think some heavier might be in the work.

I do like my 6.5 Grendel

Honey, is it too early in the day for Guinness with my popcorn? The Luddites are still going at it.

Never had any desire for a WSM, but .204 Ruger and the various Creedmoors look like winners to this bitter old white man.

Mule deer:

Post #13985833, paragraph 9 starts "Since 2010 . . . . . "

Your paragraph states the other rifles you've taken antelope with that probably did as good a job as the 6.5 Creedmoor, but saying that you took a "big game animal" with it does not make it any better at the job than your 22-250.

It had a cooler name is all.

Guinness is for breakfast too, no?



C'mon John, the popularity of the 6.5 Creed is directly attributable to guys like you writing glowing reviews of it, based on actual experience on the range and in the field, with readily available and affordable (cheap) factory ammo, and reasonably priced (some cheap even) rifles which just happened to turn out to be accurate (highly accurate?) in a majority of cases.

Let's not for get the many posters here and on other online fora that found something that works and are letting their internet "friends" know about it.

It's OK to take credit when it is due.

Geno

PS, I'm not in the market for one, as I have some rifles that sit unused for long enough periods as it is, but if this topic keeps coming up I may have to get an affordable, accurate Ruger American in 6.5 C. They are still legal in this State I hear.

Should I start a new thread?

When do we see a 9.3 Creedmor? To take advantage of the amazing properties of the 9.3mm (.366?) diameter projectile in a short action rifle.

Why not, they already have 6mm Creedmor, and I think a .22C also right? I say upsize!

Geno

PS then we can have threads about the 9.3x62, 9.3x57, vs the 9.3 Creed.

Where do I go to sign up? Is there a form to fill out?

If I ever get to go deer hunting again, I'll still reach for the 30 cal.

I thought it was the default on this forum so I didn't sign up either! 🤔

OK so maybe SOME Creedmor guys remind me of some 7mag owners back in the 70's. Marketing did its thing- "can take any game on the American continent" -remember hearing that line over and over? Sold a lot of rifles.

Now, I own and LOVE my 260. Same for my 6mm- I got these two thinking they were just a bit better than their closest, more standard, rivals because like most here, we are kind of snobs...I mean enthusiasts.

Many here load every single round sent through their bolt actions. Weigh each powder load. Measure COAL - all looking for perfection. In my case often screwing up something that worked wonderfully in the process. OMG!!! Enduron powders!!! I need those!

Well why WOULDN'T anyone gravitate to the 6.5 Creedmor? The only hiccup I ever got with my 260, that shot great even with its slow twist- another thing I tried to fix rather than believe my lying eyes- was, just as with my 6mm -the best groups I got came when loading the cartridge too long for the magazine - and of course not realizing it until heading in to the field.

The Creedmoor addresses that without sacrificing a thing and often with a more appropriate twist. What in the world is there to bitch about that?


And I don't even own one.

The more I've used the Grendel at targets and hogs and the more I see it used by others it the better I like it. In my career I saw many hunters switch to magnums and become much worse shots than they once were. I haven't used a Grendel at over 350 yards but inside that it has worked for us way better than I expected. When my neighbor bought his (which is the only one I've used) I wondered what was the reason since he already had a very accurate .223/5.56 AR but afterwards told him I was wrong and this is a much better rifle and the recoil is not noticeably more. With a .223 AR I have avoided shots at large hogs if they were much over 200 yards away but the Grendel will kill as far as I'm going to shoot.

I enjoyed Mule Deer's comparison of the 6.5CM to the 270win in his first Gun Gack. Yes the 6.5 has good merit, but not enough for me to move my 270, or 7-08 down the road. In the hunting spectrum of consideration the difference isn't comment worthy in my opinion. Now if I could sell my not worthy, "old man", 308 target rifle, I'd get a 6.5CM built for target work, but I don't need another gun and the only way my 308 will move is if I allow an undesirable feeling of being robbed to fill me. And regarding MD's reference to you old men, I was 25 in 2001 and didn't have any extra after paychecks to buy guns, but I did have my grandpa's, hand-me-down 721 in 270win serving me well. No, the 721 hasn't, and isn't going anywhere!

I’m shooting the 120 Nosler BT @ 2450fps, any experience with that bullet from the Grendel, good or bad?


Thanks.

ME TOO ME ME ME ! !

I have a 6.5 CM. Can see no reason to switch from a 7/08 or .260, unless the rifle has other aspects you need. A reason the 6.5 CM might be doing so well is a growing wave of older farts learning that they don't need to get kicked hard or carry a heavy rifle to kill things and perform well on targets. Another reason is the modern tendency to twist rifles faster in order to maximize BCs, since everyone buys a rifle based on spreadsheets. It does deliver excellent return per unit of recoil invested. And there is some very good, cheap loaded ammo out there for it.

A person can appreciate the Creedmoor (or not), own it (or not), use it (or not), and still enjoy other chamberings, all without having to justify their actions or belittle the popular little cartridge. This is lost on many. Then again, any time there is a discussion on hunting/offroad trucks here and folks mention the Tacoma, some can't help but mention that it can't be a "real truck" because it won't tow their gooseneck. I'd wager folks knew of that characteristic when they bought the truck, much like many Creedmoor owners already knowing that the 6.5x55 has been "launching 6.5mm bullets into mooses since the dawn of civilization" and that the .264WinMag will "push those same bullets 350fps faster than the puny and worthless Creed." Self-validation of choices is never not interesting.

Well, I appreciate the history and personal experiences with the 6.5 C. After looking at the reloading data, I could not tell one from the other comparing the 260 to the 6.5 but it does appear that there are some slight nuances. I had the 6.5 bug years ago, built rifles for 260 Rem, 6.5x55, 65.-06 and 264 WM. They were all nice and shot better than me but eventually found that I simply like my 270 Win better. I am an amateur but all accounts but I own 32 sets of reloading dies and spend about two decades experimenting with many cartridges over the years, factory spec, improved and a couple wildcats. These days I simply don't have the time to experiment as much as I like so I just grab one of my tried and true rifles and hunt when I can. I'm starting a new rifle project, a 30-06, about as boring as it can get but I've had several but don't have one now and figure I need a 308 cal. Using a win long action 70 so 308 is not an option. don't want the recoil of the 300 wm so the 06 is the winner!

Grendel is a good round, shot thousands of rounds from a 7BR and 6BR....6.5BR would best the G by 100-150 but must handload.

If you like the 85-90s, a 6BR would suit you just perfect. Dropped deer at 400 yds using a 105 amax, but the 95 NBT flattened a few also, at half the range, as that was my presentation. A 6 shooting same powder capacity and bullet weights above, will do better at long range. No doubt a Grendel is good out to around 300 yds day in and out, with good bullets and placement.

The Creed........well they just add distance if/when the need arises.

Like the Swede, No flies on a 260 loaded with ammo that gives great accuracy, and feeds thru a mag for a hunting rifle. Creed makes it an easy pick for most applications for a modest 6.5mm.

Given your screen name, you probably don't need a 6.5 Creedmoor. The 257 Roberts will do everything except maybe extreme range target shooting.

I have a 6.5 Creedmoor and I like it. I was looking for a 260 but wanted a Browning instead of a Remington and could not find an Xbolt in 260. They are interchangeable in my opinion.

Most of us have way more rifles than we need. My first centerfire rifle was a Remington 700 in 30-06. I now have about 10 centerfire rifles. I could sell everything but my original 30-06 and could still hunt everything that I do now without any problems. Sometimes rifle buying is about fun more than need.

I been rich and I been poor and I been rich and I been poor.... and rich is better. - an old retired black boxer


I have rifles in 260 Rem and I have rifles in 6.5x55 Swede and I have rifles in 6.5-06...... and 6.5-06 is better. - an old retired white engineer

recoiljunky,

"Your paragraph [[in [post 13985833] states the other rifles you've taken antelope with that probably did as good a job as the 6.5 Creedmoor, but saying that you took a "big game animal" with it does not make it any better at the job than your 22-250."

I have no idea what your point is here. Is it that I've claimed the 6.5 Creedmoor does a better job of killing big game than any other cartridge? I can't remember ever stating that. In fact in every one of these threads I've often made it plain that the 6.5 Creedmoor doe NOT kill big game better than any other cartridge, and especially not the other 6.5's with the same basic ballistics, such as the .260 and 6.5x55.

The 6.5 Creedmoor's virtues as a hunting cartridge are exactly what I started in other posts, and have stated many other times in print:

1) It provides superb accuracy with inexpensive factory ammo in inexpensive rifles.

2) The cartridge kicks lightly enough for even hunters who MIGHT be recoil-sensitive to practice sufficiently to shoot accurately in the field, and bullet placement is far more important than any other factor in killing power.

3) It does this with bullets that have sufficiently high ballistic coefficients to catch up to bullets from harder-kicking cartridges in the same caliber-class within 300 yards or so, though of the bullets also work close up, as have from moderate velocity 6.5mm rounds for a long time.

4) It does this without the need to handload, or buy ammo that costs 2-3 times as much, or "build" a custom rifle.

All of these reasons are exactly why the 6.5 Creedmoor has become so popular here in Montana, particularly as a cartridge for kids and wives and girlfriends, where it's largely taken over the former role of the .243 Winchester. But quite a few he-men have also bought one too, after they see how well it works as a general big game round. The same reasons are the 6.5 Creedmoor is popular not just in Montana but many other states, including Europe and Africa.

Many of those guys have not ever become acquainted with the .260 or 6.5x55, or they would have known how well such rounds work for hunting big game. But they didn't try them, because Remington screwed up the .260's introduction from the get-go, and the 6.5x55 has been around so long there are wide variations in not only rifle chamber-throats but factory ammo--when you can find factory ammo that isn't downloaded 300 fps below 6.5 Creedmoor and .260 velocities.

Many Campfire people keep posting that they're NOT buying one, because their (pick one) .257 Roberts, .257 Weatherby, .270 Winchester, 7mm-08 etc. etc. etc. does the same things. Yeah, those cartridges will kill game just as well, but do not have the list of other 6.5 Creedmoort attributes: affordable, accurate and easily available rifles and factory ammo.

Apparently, rifle loonies simply cannot understand those simple concepts, because long ago they decided on a cartridge that was "perfect." Well, sure, especially if you're a handloader, or "custom" rifle nut. But apparently some of those cartridges and rifles do not appeal to a LOT of other hunters and shooters, for the reasons I stated. Otherwise the .257 Roberts, .257 Weatherby, .270 Winchester, 7mm-08 etc. etc. etc., would be selling like the 6.5 Creedmoor has for the past decade.

I bought one because Whitakers ran a Howa 6.5 CM on sale for less than $300. Was floored by how accurate it was, and that was with just about every bullet and load I tried. A local kid found out I had it and begged me to sell it to him. I priced it up there pretty good, and he bought it. So, I bought one of those junky Remington 700's in 6.5 CM, and I'll be damned if it didn't shoot just as well as the Howa did.

I've got someone wanting to buy it, and if they do, I'll buy another one, probably a 700 Mountain rifle, in the Creed. It's a perfect deer cartridge as far as I'm concerned.........high on performance, low on recoil. What's there not to like?

I'm sure a 260 would work too, and I know a Swede would, because over the years I've had several 6.5X55's. I've actually killed more stuff with the Swede than with the Creedmoor, but SA versus LA is a no brainer for me.

It's not the be all, end all, of cartridges, but in it's class it's a pretty dang good one.

I have 13 of them, probably skewing the average a little, but I'm not close to being EVERYONE.

I had more than 20 perfectly good 260s when I bought my first 6.5 Creedmoor and have written multiple times that for the guy who loads his own ammo and doesn't need to shoot bullets longer than the 130 grain AB, the 260 will do any thing that the 6.5 Creedmoor can do within those parameters.

There are at least 3 things that the 6.5 Creedmoor does better than the 260:

1. Many new rifles are being chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor, but there are currently very few new rifles being chambered in 260.
2. Many more factory ammo options in 6.5 Creedmoor than in 260.
3. If you need to shoot bullets longer/heavier than the 130 grain AB, the 6.5 Creedmoor has an advantage in COAL and accurate factory ammo can found in many places and at a reasonable price loaded with bullets in the 125 to 143 range. Options for every user, except maybe varmint shooters.

Wal-Mart sells 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, but I have yet to see a rifle chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor in their racks. If Wal-Mart was selling Remington 700 ADL package guns in 6.5 Creedmoor for under $400, I think that they'd sell enough to make a noticeable impact on the profits at Remington, Wal-Mart, and the ammunition manufacturers.

I want one.

All I know is I wanted an 84M Kimber in .260 Remington. The one they built wa notoriusly inaccurate. They dropped it.

When they started making Kimbers in 6.5 Creedmoor I figured it was close enough so I bought one. Very accurate and popular so ammo and components are relatively inexpensive.

I have a 6,5x55 (An 1894-nice little carbine.) and if I had one chambered in ia modern action I could come close enough with it or the .260 that It would match the Creedmoor.

What I couldn't match is the low price availability of rifles, brass, bullets, load info and factory ammo.

NTG,



Perhaps this will puzzle some Campfire members, but I have never found any of the five 6.5 Creedmoors to have enough merit to move my .270 or 7mm-8 down the road (or my .260, custom 6.5x55, .257 Roberts, 7x57, etc.) In fact the only rifles I've moved down the road after buying one of the five 6.5 Creedmoors I've owned was the PREVIOUS 6.5 Creedmoor--because I'd found out what I needed to from it, and now wanted to see if yet another 6.5 Creedmoor will shoot as well as the previous rifles.

Right now my 6.5 Creedmoor is a Bergara B-14 Ridge, which shoots very well, as 6.5 Creedmoors normally do. But my tentative plans for hunting this fall include such possibilities as my semi-custom 7mm-08, a Ruger 77 tanger, the lightweight model that came from the factory with a spindly 18" barrel. But it also had a slimmer, nicer stock than the standard 77, with a black forend tip., and #1 contour, 22-inch Douglas barrel turned it into a very accurate rifle that weighs 7-1/2 pounds with scope.

Probably am also going to find a use for the .257 Roberts I'm building on an FN Mauser action, but with a synthetic stock to keep it light. We already have two other .257's in the house, but....

I have one,

Just enough to be "cool"..



DF

No creedmoors here too much work to get them to shoot.

If you want some good load data for that -08, let me know.





P

When Hornady and Ruger "made" the 6.5 Creedmoor on a chassis rifle FIRST it was to sell to the new and up and coming long range steel bangers not as a hunting rifle (you forgot that part). Now there are a plethora of would be snipers that take their chassis rifle out and "hunt" with them when they have no business doing so. Why? Because they read that if they have xxxx scope on xxxx rifle they can kill elk at xxxx yards A N D their smart phone says so.



Next time I talk to my friends at Shedhorn Sports in Ennis I'll have to ask them what their sell ratio is, 6.5 Creedmoor to the rest, and see what they say.

I've heard the 308 is still outselling the 6.5 for the same reasons as you stated the 6.5 is running rampant. When I was in Shedhorn in May I purused the ammo aisle knowing Rob keeps an ample supply of just about everything and saw probably twice as much different 308 ammo as any other except .223/5.56. In the local Walmart it's the same, which is still where (guessing) over 50% of American hunters buy ammo. There or some other discount place like Piggly Wiggly or Murdoch's.




In Bozeman where cowboy boots and Copenhagen have been replaced by skis, flip flops and bongs I can see that. Back before there was a Bob Ward's, when The Beaver Pond was THE sporting goods store in the Gallatin Valley and Owenhouse Ace Hardware still sold International farm equipment AND vehicles, that's the Bozeman Montana I grew up knowing. I'd bet there's not that many 6.5 Creedmoors sold at Bob Ward's.

Speaking of Bob Ward's, were you ever in his first store in Missoula? Musta only been 16 feet wide but a block long. On Higgin's Ave. I think? I was maybe ten when they moved (to the Tremper shopping center I believe).

I'd hafta ask my sister, she's the smart one.

I bought my 6.5 CM in the 2008-09 winter time frame and it is a Ruger 77 Stainless All-Weather hunting rifle. It was the first 6.5 CM rifle I had seen in a market area that has the newest items very quickly. This pic is the Ruger 77 Hawkeye which followed the original 77 Stainless All Weather, but they are pretty much identical in appearance. That was long before I ever saw a Ruger chassis rifle in 6.5 CM on a shelf.

That rifle with the ugly old black stock would be perfect.

Fake News!

Thank you BayouRover for pointing out my mistake. In my area, the first one I saw was on the RPR chassis and the droopy drawers crowd was in Murdoch's trying to decide on weed or ammo.

My sister says I've been out in the timber too long.

Oh, also my bad, the first Bob Ward's was on 3rd Street, then it was moved to Higgin's Ave. then to Southgate Mall not Tremper Shopping Center.

recoiljunky,

Would not be surprised if the .308 outsells the 6.5 Creedmoor in some parts of the West, both in rifles and ammo. But in the Helena area (where I do most of my sporting goods shopping) the stores that stock a lot of ammo seem to have at least as much 6.5 Creedmoor ammo as .308. I'll have to take a closer look next time I go into one.

Was in Sportsman's Warehouse in Helena a couple weeks ago, and they have the best ammo selection in town. They had two 4-foot long shelves of 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, maybe 10 boxes of .260, and NO 6.5x55. Our local ranch-supply store in Townsend also has a bunch of 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, that disappears off the shelves pretty quickly, perhaps because of the local 1000-yard rifle range, though several of my buddies in town have 'em for hunting. (Others are anti-Creedmoorites, usually also anti-synthetic stocks.)

Yes, I do remember the first Bob Ward's in Missoula. In fact I used to buy fired shotgun shells there, because I was so young and poor that I still handloaded most of my shotshell ammo. They'd have barrels full from the local ranges. But sometime in there they moved to the bigger store.

Also remember the first Bob Ward's in Bozeman--along with, of course, the Beaver Pond. My father bought my first really good centerfire hunting rifle, a Savage 99 .308, at the Beaver Pond in 1966, after I'd used his .30-30 to take my first deer. He said I could pick out any rifle up to $50 (which shows you how inflation changes things!). I picked out the 99--which was marked $55, but he said that close enough.

The Bob Ward's in Helena probably the last on my list for shooting/reloading stuff of the four major stores in town, because it has the highest prices and worst selection. They also don't deal in used guns. The new Bob Ward's in Bozeman is a lot better. Don't get to Bozeman more than 2-3 times a year, but did buy some stuff at the BW's there about a month ago, stuff the Helena store doesn't have.

All it takes is desire. Welcome to the tribe!

Mule Deer, if you happen to get to Ennis, stop in at Shedhorn and browse around. Rob is an old friend ( we were EMT's together) and the "kid" Tucker , he's great to deal with. TONS of used guns.

The thing that burns my burgers about the 6.5 Creedmoor is/was all the hype and how (like I said before) with this, that and the other thing, you too can shoot like Chris Kyle. I'm not disparaging the cartridge, just what it's come to "represent" (?) Like when the 300 WBY came out, there were dudes (not like Hey Dude, but you know, dudes) that said that it would kill an elk even if you hit him in the FOOT. Not sure where they heard that, but you see my point.

Just spent three weeks hiking around Bozeman, went to Bob Wards and had a nice tour of Sitka HQ. Bozeman is a nice town. I suppose if I start shooting more, maybe I'll try the 6.5 C, wish I had kept my 6.5x55 and my 7x57 for that matter.

Guinness is for breakfast too, no?"
" And the beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad , so I had one more for dessert. "

All are welcome.

Those who desire to fill out a form may need to be re-educated first, however. Forms are a big part of why we're bitter.

I played with one for a bit, but the rifle came up a bit short, so I sold it. Still have dies, brass, and a couple hundred Accubond LRs, and you know where that can lead......

With a .223, .243, 6CM, .270, .308, and an '06, among others, I've got the 6.5 kinda surrounded, so it's not likely I'll bite, but if I ever had to start over, it'd be the logical beginning. Hell, I could do all that needs doing here with the .223, as long as I stay out of nearby Virginia, which hasn't got the word yet, even though they apparently allow airguns for deer hunting.

First pic is 135 Berger Factory ammo, very first 3 shots fired out of daughter's 6.5 creedmoor. Next groups are either 140 vld or 147 eld. That last group is the 147 doing 2700 fps and very comfortable to shoot. She is shooting it well from a bipod sitting to 325 yards.







Its kind of a tossup which one was easier to find loads for, my 3 different 6.5x47s or this new Creedmoor. I did cheat though and use a Hawk Hill barrel. Only 120 rounds down the barrel and have 4 different loads shooting sub .5 moa with lapua brass. Glad I set this rig up for her.

Nice work Kurt, I think the girl is set! How about a pic of her rifle?

I can vouch for the double barrel 1/4 MOA rifle. I think I sold that one to him. It would do better than that before the left barrel got bent. But that's a whole other story.

recoiljunky,

Don't get to Shedhorn often, but often enough that some of the people remember me. May stop later this month on the way to a family reunion in Virginia City.

Stopped in Sportsman's Warehouse in Helena today, and did a little more research on their ammo stocks. They had five 4-foot shelves of .308 ammo, and three of 6.5 Creedmoor--which may or may not indicate anything about recent popularity. The .308 appeared 55 years before the Creedmoor. It also probably doesn't indicate anything about rifle sales. One of my professional hunter buddies in Africa also owns a big sporting goods store, and reported a few months ago that around 80% of his new-rifle sales are 6.5 Creedmoors.

Yeah, I remember the BS surrounding the .300 Weatherby, plus the 7mm Remington Magnum and the .300 WSM when they appeared. But as noted earlier, I do NOT remember the same amount of disparagment of the .300 WSM when it appeared as has been directed toward the 6.5 Creedmoor. Even Jorge didn't mention anything about waiting for Shrapnel to comment....

I think the 6.5 Creedmoor just has the advantage of being defined during a time of advanced manufacturing and sharing of information.

It's not that one is better than the other, more that it's easier to get a higher level of performance from the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Only reason I bought off you was those huge trophies from winning the world nationals 12 years in a row.

Being gay is in style right now

And what's so special about him. Not the first time I've seen this referencing that guy.

Read Shrapnels “signature “ and you will understand . He has forgotten more than Chuck Norris knows.

I’m flabbergasted that my citation sustains.

Another "expert"

No ,just the Chuck Norris of Montana .

Chuck Norris is a mediocre has been actor

LOL......you beat me by a mile.

I'm still patiently waiting for winchester to produce the 6.5 cm in a model 70. Stainless featherweight be nice. I give two ph ucks if it's made in Portugal..

79S,

If a Portuguese M70 6.5 Creedmoor (when and if they ever appear) shoots anything like the Portuguese .300 WSM I own, it will do.
(Of course, I have two .300 Winchester Magnums to compensate for owning a .300 WSM....)

I carry my 260 Finnlight the most. I have full confidence in it.

Mule Deer, is that where the Model 70s are made now?

I have no strong opinions on the Creedmoor. Don't own one because I have a .260. Might get one in the future.

But if I really, really, didn't like the round, you know what I'd do?

Not buy one.

257Bob,

Actually, Model 70's are more "assembled" in Portugal than made there--but that has been the case for several years now.

Yeah, his Creedmoor vitriol has nothing on HitnRun's...

Yeah but Shrap is high on the 222 mag so that alone covers a multitude of sins......

I still have the Shooting mag when the 6.5 CM was being introduced. A friend on Team USA was highlighted when F T/R was taking off and I kept the magazine. It was Mike Demilles loading off the probably now long dead .30 TC and he convinced Hornady to offer loaded cartridges. Might be slightly off on history and details but that was 2005 ish I think. I was pretty surprised when it grew legs a few years ago after over a decade without much commercial visibility from my perspective at least. I was organizing my office and found the magazine again last week. It was either a one off for Comp shooters from a larger name magazine or Precision Shooter. I boxed it up with some books to store and can’t remember now. The 6.5CM ad was the back page. I agree with your comments it wasn’t heavily marketed at introduction. More of a limited target market trial. IIRC Hornady just started into really innovative powders(Superformance) and calibers like the .308 Marlin Express or whatever the flexible tipped rounds where for leverguns.

I remember the Short Mag craze as well. It was right when I started hunting big game roughly. The 300 WSM probably remained popular than most of the others and until GAP started promoting the 6.5 SAUM I never heard much about Remington or Ruger? Short mags. The WSSM’s fell out of favor even faster. The 6.5 CM was purpose built before its time and lived long enough that when PRS and other Shooting sports became mainstream it had the support structure all ready to capitalize. It definitely wasn’t a Short Mag story as it appears some believe.

Full disclosure, I don’t own a 6.5 CM but did have a beautiful shooting TC Icon and followed the 30 TC and then 6.5 CM with interest the past decade or so. Hornady seems to have done a great job of figuring out the economics of niche calibers, etc.

I am all aquiver with anticipation of Shrapnel's arrival.

Who is Chuck Norris? I used to work at A. M. Wells in Norris, but never met or saw any Chuck.

Wow...some of you all take this whole Creedmore thing seriously.

I've never owned one, nor do I have plans to but I can see why they're flying off the shelves.

Carry on.

Yep, he's also into .223 Remington denial....

My man bun finally grew out nicely so I have one showing up next week.

Funny how grown men get twisted about rifles and such.

Well, my 6.5 Creedmor came to me via a gift from an uncle. He belongs to his local Legion and he won the gun in a raffle. He decided that I should have it. A Ruger American Predator with a Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x44, I think sits on it. Not a gun I would have purchased, but he is my uncle and he is a vet. I gladly accepted and got it sighted in.

He came down for a visit and we took it out and he was able to fire it a few times. He was a happy camper.

I took the rifle out on Veteran's Day in his honor. I took this buck at about 125 yards, one shot and he made it maybe 30 yards. Remington 140 grain corelokt did the job.
He was the first person I told and texted him a picture and the details. He now can brag to his buddies at the Legion. This rifle will now be with me or my family for many years to come. I will not let this one go.

We took it one step further and had lunch at the local VFW where we hunt as they were serving a turkey dinner. A great day in my book. I was hunting with my my older brother, my oldest son and my nephew.

Now is the 6.5 Creedmor any better than others, maybe is some ways, maybe not in others. It does shoot well in the rifle I have. I would buy another, but I would also probably like a 6.5x55 or a 260. Go with whatever works best for you. Heck I could even go for another one that works great, the 7-08.

257Bob;

Imagine that all the fuss is about getting a factory rifle with action, twist, chamber and throat actually tailored to a particular cartridge and bullet class. A custom in a box ready to go. Too, a lot more paper is getting shot at distance than in the past.

For those not partial or unschooled in Kentucky windage, dially scopes and informative reticles have opened doors for smaller cartridges at magnum distances. Most welcome--particularly to old, beat-up shooters. Like Viagra, the new optics help to keep the ancients in the game to the chagrin of certain millennials.

The benefits of a higher ballistic coefficient seem to be getting near revelatory attention, too--kinda like the shooting fraternity didn't have that under their collective hat back in the dim past...:)

Crickets

So now the Jeopardy theme is playing between my ears in wait of the great Shrapnel. So in the mean time:

https://youtu.be/v2AC41dglnM

It seems Whittaker sells a few.

from a previous thread in a similar vein....

I've a Sako Vixen in 223 I could dangle in front of him.....

Basically twins no measureable difference IMO.

I'll show him a picture of my Rem 7 .22-204 with light Brux barrel...

DF

I shoot both, I really like both. When I got around to building a full custom I chose the Creedmoor specifically because I wanted to use a magazine fed rifle that could pull double duty as a hunting rifle and light competition rifle. For a pure hunting rifle, the .260 is a better choice because it has a little more case capacity. I’m probably going to move to Ackley Improved when I rebarrel again. With Berger getting ready to release the 155gr Elite Hunter, I’d be building a .260 AI with a Wyatt’s box and a Kiff reamer designed around those 155s. I might even consider building it on a long action but would probably stick with the short action because I’m a fanboy and it does keep the weight down some. You can still shoot factory .260 ammo in a pinch but you can pick up the extra speed with AI handloads. My .260 is as easy to load for as either of my 6.5 Creedmoors.

I do find better choices for factory ammo for the Creedmoor than the .260 but I mainly reload my own. Sometimes I get lazy, though, or in a hurry and there’s some really fantastic factory ammo out there - Prime, Copper Creek, etc. I haven’t found nearly as much .260 ammo that MY rifle likes.

I don’t find buying a new set of dies a real consideration but if you already have all the .260 dies, that’s just another reason to go with that caliber.

Why send a boy to do a man's job? When either one of those cartridges grows up it wants to be a 6.5-06!
Jerry

Nobody wants to be a 6.5-06.

Meh, the 6.5 PRC makes them both its bitch.

I've been shooting the 260 when it came out in 1998....I don't see a darn thing the CreedSaMoor will do for me that the 260 don't...
I handload, and I have very little brass that says 260 Rem on it.... I do have a lot of it that the headstamp is 308 Win, that I find laying all over the ground at our local range fairly often....waste not want not...

True, gut shot is gut shot.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Time will tell.

In any case, I don't think the CM is going anywhere.

The PRC may steal market share from other rounds.

DF

DF,

Interesting observation, but I believe you're correct.

The 6.5 Creedmoor, despite the "insightful" observations of the 24hour Geezers Club, is already well on its way as a standard worldwide chambering for factory bolt-action rifles, alongside the .243, .270 and .308 Winchesters, .30-06 and .300 Winchester Magnum.

Still no Shrapnel. He is a ghost yes?

As I stated earlier, I own a 6.5CM, but saying that anyone who opposes the 6.5 CM are part of a Geezer Club is a bit sophomoric. And you write for a living?

I ain't never opposed no cartridge. Well, lately I have had my doubts about the 270, particularly if it has indeed changed its orientation, as reported on 24hr.

Have a 6.5x257 carefully chambered in a mauser that pretty much operates as well as a Creed...though you won't find them on any shelves...:)

You have to admit, the subject of the CM has brought forth a surprising amount of emotion, both pro and con.

The Fire has both excellence and less than. All the "stuff" that's been written on this subject could well deserve the "Geezer Club" moniker. I see where JB is coming from.

So, don't shoot the messenger....

DF

I am probably a geezer, but dont see the need for the insults.

From either side.

Oooohh..... A half-assed attempt at a call-out thread......

From one geezer to another, I agree.

DF

Can you get a Pedersoli sharps in 6.5 CreeeeeD?

There was a thread on this forum a few weeks ago, asking the age of Campfire members. Turned out the average was in the high 60's, as I recall, which isn't all that surprising, given the overall upward trend of the age of shooters and, especially, hunters. So apparently the Campfire itself is a Geezers Club of sorts.

My main point is that most hunters are resistant to change. I have a collection of hunting/shooting literature going back to the 1880's, and every generation bitched to some extent about some new-fangled rifle or cartridge. In fact, the general trend I've observed over the decades is that hunters often form their pretty much permanent tastes in firearms, cartridges, etc. between 30 and 40, after they start making enough money to indulge their whims. That's when most choose the absolutely perfect cartridge(s) for their hunting, and also decide which brands of rifles and scopes are best. Then as they grow older they start complaining about new and useless stuff that doesn't work any better than The Perfect Cartridge they chose way back when, and that no rifle after the pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester was discontinued works worth a damn.

My age, by the way, is right around the Campfire average--but my rifle collection (and rifle interests) apparently covers a much longer period than most, and even includes some new stuff.

You know what I think about the 6.5 Creedmoor, no need to beat that dead horse, although one can get chastised for not drinking the kool aid, yet it is fine to keep propping it up as the best thing since smokeless powder.

But I doubt you can call these 223 denial. If you look closely, you will also notice a "Black Gun" on the extreme left, it is an AR-15 by Wilson Combat and it has killed a few critters too...

Kirk,

I knew the crack about the .223 would bring you out!

I'm 64, so I must be a geezer, but I'm a geezer who likes rifles and cartridges and isn't opposed to trying new things.

In 2018 I shot varmints with the 204, 223, 22-250, 243, 25 WSSM, and 257 Roberts. I shot whitetails with 22-250, 243, 25 WSSM, 256 Newton. 6.5 Creedmoor, 30-30, and 338 FED. I went elk hunting and didn't shoot one, but if I had, it would have been shot with a 270.

He APPEARS, he is not a myth! But no 788's I see, hmmmm, this is strange.

He can't be this Chuck of Norris Montana though. I know Alfred, Tim, Dixie, Keith but no Chuck.

Cartridges sure stir it up, often regardless of what rifle shot or bullet used.

Make perfect sense...

I still think a 9.3 Creed would do a job no other cartridge could do.

Geno

Humans will never all agree on anything. It would be a boring world if we did!

I disagree

Threads like this remind me of the Meedieval rguments about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, 24 or 25.

In the real word, if comeone could actually compile all the data, I doubt that one could find any meaningful difference between the 6.5 CM, the .260, and the .270, .280, .308, 30-06, etc. in terms of how well they have actually hit and killed big game.

I was a HP rifle competitor from about 89 to 03, after I made distinguished rifle all my shooting was done with match rifles starting with .308 win.
Built a 6.5-08 panther for 600-1k to try for better barrel life over 6.5-284 along with easy to find decent brass. It worked fine. A little later one of my competitor friends Kent Reeve shortened a 6.5-08 case .080 keeping the same shoulder as a test to see if he could gain the ability to load 142 SMK's in the magazine for 300yd rapid fire while still keeping enough speed for 600yd slow. It worked well enough I did the same thing with one of my guns. Easy to make brass, just cutting off the base of the dies. I shortened and opened up the neck of a Dillon .243 power trim die for bulk of the trim work. All this was done before Remington brought out the .260 case. Having done all this mumbling, I would have jumped on DeMile's case that became the 6.5 CM if it had been available back then. Of course all this was for punching holes in paper. I did keep the last Kriger barreled 700 and stuck it in a hunting stock for my nephews to kill deer with, they loved it for stand hunting.

That would be lame.

A 366 Creed would be much handier.

In some sort of Martini action.

Jim,

I loves me some Martini action. Especially after a woman gets into them Martinis. Unless she's one a them crazy biotches.

Yes, 366 in American nomenclature. Even an old set in his ways curmudgeon knows that. From page 3 (by my account) of this thread:



Hope all is well up there on the high plains. And your able to cut and bale some hay this year.

Geno

PS I really do think the discussions regarding the benefits/lack thereof of the 9.3x62, 9.3x57, vs the 9.3 366 Creed would be exciting. One better for moose, the other barely adequate for deer and such nonsense. ehnm would test them all on rabbits though, and declare none as good as a 460Weatherby.

You sound like a shooter I knew from the old days. Mike L? Only guy I ever heard of with worse eyes than me!

I built a 260 hunter in the days before the Creedmoor. Thought that Dennis' idea was a niche product that wouldn't go anywhere. ...after all there was already the 260 that was a legitimized 6.5-08 and the new 6.5x47 which came with Lapua brass. A couple of years ago I shopped BassPro for ammo. Couldn't find a single box of 260 to buy. But there was tons of 6.5 Creedmoor to be had. Boy did I get that one wrong!

I have 2 Creedmoors and no PRCs. You suck the fun right out of prodding the masses.

There was a time when I figured I didn't need a reason or excuse to buy a gun, but as I've gotten older, I'm coming to a few conclusions. Chances are, a whitetail deer is the biggest game animal I'm ever going to hunt, unless I draw a Kentucky elk tag, decide to go to Eastern Kentucky and hunt black bear, or got out west to hunt elk and mule deer. So, I don't need a rifle that will kick like a mule, because I'm not hunting anything right now that will eat me, gore me, or trample me if it get's mad enough. I've got a 270 and a 7X57 if I ever hunt elk, so I'm figured I'm good in that department.

That leaves deer as what I'm hunting, and that's where a 6.5 CM fills the bill perfectly. Arthritis, bad rotator cuffs, and a pinched nerve in my elbow tends to make me recoil sensitive, and I've learned that one does not need to be punished in order to shoot a rifle. I had pretty much settled on the 243 as my go-to deer cartridge until I bought a 6.5 CM and started shooting it. Simply put, it's as easy on the shoulder as a 243, and a better deer round to boot.

I cannot see what all the fuss is about. If you don't like it, move on and use something else. I'm usually very nostalgic about cartridges and have never seen the need for 75% of the new stuff that's came out in the past 50 years or so. If recoil is of no concern, and admittedly it's not a cartridge known for it's recoil, my 270 would work for anything I ever plan to hunt, or would even contemplate hunting. But, in a lightweight rifle, with a full dose of H-4831 and a 130 grain bullet, it sometimes bothers my shoulder. Same way with my 7X57, and I'm sure both Karamojo Bell and Elanor O'Connor would both laugh at me.

I shot several deer with a 6.5X55, and it worked fine, no felt recoil, and a deer that died quickly. A 260 Remington was in my plans, but a less than $300 Howa 6.5 Creedmoor tempted me too much. It's a very good cartridge, with lot's of good reloading components available, and one that performs as advertised, something that is sometimes not the case. I don't normally jump on the bandwagon of something until I've had tons of experience with it, and despite now having my third rifle for the Creed, I'm still new to it. However, I've seen enough to know that I like it.

I was playing the straight man there Geno.

Yep,

Just trying to get some impetus for others to join in the Martini 9.3/366 Creed action.

Perhaps if we get enough interest Lipsey's will request a small run of them for us?

Geno

PS. Was going to say it went right over my head, as tall as you are that's where a lot of stuff goes.

Even prior to your time frame, here's an interesting read of the path to one of the most dominate cartridges in Hunter Benchrest, made by shortening the 308 case:

https://benchtalk.netlify.com/articles/benchrest/30x47-cartridge-history.html

You know you are a Loony.

So, no PRC yet, would be a better statement.

You know you want one...

Ha!

DF

My guess is the .29 Creedmoor will be the next best-seller....

Will that really be a .284?

Or will Hornady make a .295/.296/.297 bullet so we finally fill that hole?

Geno

It’ll never live up to its older brother, the B-29....

No way.

That would be a high bar to hurdle.

DF

You're right, it will be one letter down the alphabet trail--the C-29....

better leave charlies name (initial) off that one.......

Flip a coin if you're going to handload. I've used the 140 Accubond, 140 Amax and both the 130 and 140 VLD's to hunt deer-size game with the 260. All were dead with one shot. The two calibers you're considering are so close to identical it's not worth stressing. Seriously. 260 brass is easier to come by, and easier to form from 243 than it is to buy 6.5 Creedmoor. That's about it.

Personally I've owned 2 260's and my newest rifle I built in 6.5 Super LR just to do something different, but I imagine performance will be the same.

I would pick whichever one you can get cheaper and/or easier if there's any difference at all.

tikka77,

"Seriously. 260 brass is easier to come by."

I can tell from this that you really are a .260 shooter who has no experience with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Nothing wrong with that, but....

Unless you order .260 brass off the Internet, 6.5 Creedmoor brass is far easier to come by--especially . Not only is easier to find in most gun stores, but you can normally buy bunches of once-fired stuff (usually Hornady, which is very good) on the Campfire Classifieds. This is because 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady ammo is so affordable and accurate that many people just shoot factory, and then sell the brass. And that affordable 6.5 CM ammo (which means brass) is widely available in sporting goods stores, and even Walmart.

Yeah, you can neck up.243 brass, but some .243 brass isn't very good, so you end up with not-very-good .260 brass. I learned this a long time ago after getting my first custom .260. Ended up buying Lapua .243 brass, because Lapua didn't make .260 brass yet. (I now shoot Lapua brass in my present .260, a Tikka T3 Superlite, along with a more recent brand of really good brass.)

Another thing I tried, which worked very well, way back in 2010 after purchasing my first 6.5 Creedmoor, was fire-forming .22-250 brass, just in case Creedmoor brass was difficult to find. This worked very well with the Cream of Wheat method, and I reported on it in an article for HANDLOADER magazine. But I never did it again, because very soon there was zero difficulty in finding 6.5 Creedmoor brass.

History would seem to indicate that one of Remington's main goals has been to create cartridges with short life spans.

May not have been their goal, but sure became a repeatable phenomenon.

DF

They are in a slump recently but from those I can remember off the top of my head they're batting about .529 lifetime average. Folks can add the RUM's where they want, too close for me to call. Feel free to add any that I've missed.

Home runs:
.223 Remington
.22-250 Remington
.25-06 Remington
7mm Remington Magnum
7mm-08 Remington
44 Remington Magnum

Base Hits:
.17 Remington (this could be out at first, contested call by the ump)
.221 Remington Fireball
.416 Remington Magnum
.41 Remington Magnum

Strikeouts:
.350 Remington Magnum
6.5 Remington Magnum
.260 Remington
.224 Remington/6mm Remington
.222 Remington Magnum

Good effort but out at first:
.280 Remington
7mm SAUM
300 SAUM


.30 Remington and .35 Remington - from the before times, one gone but the other still doing well so call them a wash.

.416 Rem Mag seems to be successful, popular in Africa.

DF

Ground rule double, perhaps?

Maybe...

DF

The only "hype" I've seen on the creed has been all the whining about the "hype" that doesn't exist....self full filling prophecy if there ever was one... creating an argument for a debate that never existed.






This quote needs to be made into a sticky.
Every time the "why creed?" question pops up this sticky should be automatically posted and the thread closed.....

....For the love of Elmer Keith! How many times must Mule Deer explain this shiet?!

NH gunsmith and competitive shooter Larry Racine "invented" a 6.5mm bore cartridge for competitive shooting, the 6.5x51 LPR, that he claims, or claimed, was a better mousetrap. IIRC, the parent case was the 6.5x55.

Well, when people get past emotion and down to fact and logic....

But, some don't seem capable of making that transition...

It's hard to sell a Chevy guy on the merits of an F-150...

And, don't even mention Dodge...

DF

This whole thing is like a tired joke, and NO we don't need a sticky on the same dumb theme, and Mule Deer doesn't need to explain anything about it ever again because any shooter with insight and balance already knows that stuff.. How many pages and pages arguing/discussing the tiny differences between a modern fad good cartridge and others just as good (or better?) that have been with us for quite a while - even if only for 100 years!! It's not worth the time or effort to figure it out, but it might be nice to understand why any grown guy can get so revved up, insulted, butt-hurt, whatever and feel intensely inclined to mount such defenses/offenses over one more 6.5

About five years ago, an friend on another website bought a Savage 99 .243, or so he thought. Someone had the barrel rebored to .260. After abortive attempts to shoot some .243 ammo in it (the rebore wasn't re-stamped), we figured out what it was, and he got some proper ammo going, and he went out and killed a deer or two with it. He was happy, I was happy. and the deer were not happy.


I doubt anyone could get him to swap out that rifle for a Creed now. He's a .260 fan..................

As for me, I'll just stick with my old, decrepit, paid-for .270, as it works, too.

DF,

WTH do "fact and logic" have to do with anything posted here, especially up here at the top in the funny pages?

Geno

PS..................................................TOYOTA

PPS and Stihl.

You may have a point...

Tundra or Taco?

DF

Honestly, from what I've heard I'd prefer one of those overseas Hilux diesels I've heard such good things about.

Presently a Tacoma, but if I was ever in the market for a larger truck I'd be looking for a pre-2006 Dodge diesel.

Or a Tundra!


But, back on topic.............a 9.3 Creed, shorter case so I can use 350gr VLD lead free bullets (Cali requirement now ya' know)without intruding on powder space and shoot stuff a half mile away.


Geno

Ding ding ding.

Still love my 260, dont think I would trade it for a Creed.

Just buy a Creed. Can you ever have enough accurate rifles?

Yep, you pegged me. Not only can I not see but the arthritis is whooping on me.
Did you shoot HP in NC?
Wish I was still able to compete.

Just got back from Cabela's (aka Bass Pro).

25 separate types of 6.5 Creedmoor factory ammo on the shelves, zero (0) boxes of .260 Remington. They even had a good assortment of 6mm Creedmoor factory loads.

The last time I looked about a year ago there were 0 boxes of 260 Remington ammo there, so at least it's holding its own and not slipping...

DF

Here's the sickest irony...the Creedmoor was conceptualized as a highpower round by DeMille and Emary and purpose built by Hornady to win. But to my knowledge, the Creedmoor has not won a single National Championship in High Power. The 260 on the other hand has won the National Championship at least 4 times by my count in at least 3 shooters hands and holds the National Record Score shot by Sherri Gallagher.

When DeMille won the Mumma (National Championship) in 2005 he was shooting a 6XC...but to be fair, the 6.5 Creedmoor wasn't introduced until 2007.

Where I get my ammo, there isn't even a single box of 6.5 Creedmoor ammunition. Don't tell me it is that plentiful...

That is a terrible oversight by your supplier.


You should bring that up at the next board meeting Shrapnel.


You know...the guy that supplies you with Campbell's soup and ammo boxes.......

Some other opinions . . .

http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

http://americanshootingjournal.com/260-remington-vs-6-5-creedmoor/

https://www.dailyshooting.com/260-remington-vs-6-5-creedmoor/

https://adventurefootstep.com/260-remington-vs-6-5-creedmoor/

https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/260-remington-vs-6-5-creedmoor-vs-6-5x55-swede/

Hey, stop that.

We're all opinionated enough around here and don't need or want any other opinions.

Especially from all those cheeseball fora

Geno

PS, demigodllc.com???? WTF? demigod? isn't that like blasphemous or something.

I guess you’re still shopping Gibson’s, because Murdoch’s, Bob Ward’s, and Sportsman’s Warehouse all have multiple (and in some cases over a dozen) skews of 6.5 Creedmoor ammo.

In fact, this past June I counted ammo skews at the Bozeman Murdoch’s on 7th...

30 skews of 308 Win
22 skews of 6.5 CM
19 skews of 270 Win
13 skews of 243 Win
8 skews of 7-08

(For those not from here, Gibson’s closed their doors almost 15 years ago).

Help me out Brad . . . what is a "scew?"

A skew (SKU) is a unique item on a retailers shelf (it has its own UPC code).

So the 22 different 6.5 CM I mentioned are different boxes of 6.5 CM ammo... different makers, and bullet weights.

It’s abbreviated SKU... “skew” is my half-assed shorthand

Stock
Keeping
Unit


SKU

And the fact remains, there are dozens upon dozens of skews (SKU’s) of 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, available in multiple stores (including Walmart), in Bozeman, MT.

I bought a cheap Savage Creedmoor on sale ($210 after rebates). The 3rd group out of it measured .436 and all I was trying to do was check for pressure. While I do possess nerves of steel and and have been called the human bench rest, I have to give some credit to the cartridge.

I'd rather shop at Gibson's than Cabela's. People were less uppity at Gibson's

The people that don't like the Creedmoor probably won't ever like it. It's become fashionable to bash it on a lot of forums. Shrapnel's pic looks like his well stocked reloading room and since he started a thread bashing the Creedmoor I'm guessing he still doesn't like it. To each his own.

I have never understood the need to bash someone else's choice. If somebody wants a .260, so be it. If somebody else wants a 6.5 CM, so be it. The two cartridges were not meant to compete, even though the 6.5 finally found its way to the game fields.

It's not that the 6.5 Creedmoor is anything more or less than the 260 Remington (or any other 6.5/264 cartridge) it's all the hyper strewn poppycock bull splatter that came with it.

"Buy the Binford 6100 in 6.5 Creedmoor today and be shooting like Chris Kyle tomorrow!!"

I don't think so Tim

Any cartridge can be made to shoot accurately if the rifle and shooter are up to the task.

Even Mule deer will hafta agree on that one

Holy Bull Splatter Batman 🤮🤮

It costs a whole dollar to be cool?.....

Shrapnel is so anti-6.5 Creedmoor that he's actually anti-6.5. No .260's or 6.5x55's for him, as long as the .257 Roberts is still around and it's difficult to find brass. (Being hard-to-get attracts him.) In fact, he found a partial box of 6.5mm bullets in his reloading room, and felt compelled to give it to me to detoxify his place.

America and its first world problems

Throw your rifle in your truck , uncased, drive into town and buy 5 different manufacturers boxes of 6.5 creed at Walmart , get your fishing license, a hot dog, a couple of bottles of wine, a six pack of good ipa micro brew, a ham, good dark Swiss chocolate, Korean chili paste, fill your prescription for viagra, good Mexican tortillas, 4 new tires for your truck, and some tampons , a deep cell battery for your boat, and drive a few miles outside of town and shoot those 100 rounds on public land or yournland

Name one other country you can do this

Sheesh

50 years ago I could buy a Hot Wheels for 49¢ at Gibson's and be cooler.

If I found any 6.5 bullets in n my junque I'd melt them down, cast real bullets then recylce the copper jackets. They give me the twitches like too much Tarantula juice.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ylm6x

Please, watch the whole thing, it will make laugh on this glorious Saturday afternoon

Thanks. Got it!

John,

That is total BS. Someone planted those bullets in my basement and you promised you wouldn't say anything about me finding them there...

I don't care one way or another about any 6.5. On a tangent, and as a professional writer in another life, I learned that any observation that takes more than three sentences is bullshit.

I bought a 6.5 Creedmoor for deer hunting. It’s fun at the range but sucks for deer hunting.

Why?

Seriously?

It will punch a hole through paper, but bounce off a deer.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with old favorites designed nearly 100 years ago. I love shooting the .22 Hornet, .25-20 WCF, .32-20 WCF, .34-40 Krag, .30 Remington, .45-70, .405 Win and grand old .30-06. Brass can be a little hard to get hold of sometimes. I also love my 6.5 CM. Bought it on a spur of the moment in a Ruger RPF. Gun is kind of heavy, but shoots way above its pay-grade. Anybody who doesn't believe anything designed in the last 100 years can't be improved on with modern technology available today is not really thinking at all. I was going to say Racist, but that is starting to get on my own nerves.

That Racist thing was meant as a Democratic joke before anybody gets their pants in a twist.

Phew, i was gettin ready to go the f&%k off for a minute there.

I forgot that I had posted that without explanation. I bought the 6.5 Creedmoor last year for deer hunting. I like it a lot. However, I hunted all fall with it last year and never got a shot at a buck. It was my first year in at least a dozen that I was skunked deer hunting and was also my first year hunting with the Creedmoor. Therefore, the Creedmoor sucks as a deer cartridge.

Haha, that's entirely possible. I have only experienced it on paper and I can confirm that it punches through. Mine seems to have been equipped with deer-repellent technology.

With a 24"+ barrel, I can believe that. I love my 25-06. With a 22" or shorter barrel, I'd opt for a 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor.

The creed is scratching at my head.
I am a sucker at times.

Both are better than good!

Creedmoors are like electrolytes.

I was in Cabela's earlier today.

There were 34 different factory load varieties of 6.5 CM ammo.

There were 4 different factory load varieties of 260 REM ammo.

Herter's brand 129 gain pointed soft point ammo was priced at $14.95 per box of 20.

It appears as though the 6.5 CM is either close to joining, or already has joined, that group of common/mainstream/popular find 'em everywhere cartridges like the 223, 22-250, 243, 270, 7MM RM, 30-30, 308, 30-06, and 300 WM.

Wasn't the Creedmoor featured in a "Call of Duty" video game back in 2009? I believe that kick started it.

Stick a fork in 260Remington is my opinion. Remington is producing more rifles in the "enemies" caliber than their own.
For me it's availability and price, 260Remguy summed it up.

It reminds me of Keymod VS MLok or Blueray VS HD DVD

Lol I don't remember any call of duty game listing a specific caliber for any of its guns.

Both great calibers. 6.5 Creedmoor was marketed 100x better than the 260

Everything Remington markets they do incompetently.

I prefer 9,3 x 62 Mauser

Agreed

Lol. The 6mm rem. and 7mm Rem. express come to mind.

If Remington had any sense they would have given the 260 an actual marketing budget and teamed up with a major ammo manufacture.

And, don't forget, Remington never cataloged it in their most popular rifles, the 700 ADL and BDL, in addition to, or instead of, the 700 BDL SS-DM.

Let me write that again, Remington never cataloged the 260 in either the 700 ADL or BDL, what does that suggest to you about their degree of commitment?

Remington made a non-cataloged run of 700 ADL matte/synethic rifles in 6mm, 257 Ronberts, and 260 for Grice at least once during the early 2000's, but they must not have sold well enough for Remington to make any of them a regular production cataloged item.

Remington was sending rifle to wholesalers before they sent ammunition, which seems like incredibly poor marketing. When I got my first 260, a 7 SS, in 10/97, Zander's didn't have factory loaded ammo available, so I bought dies, Winchester/Olin 243 brass, and used Ken Waters' 263 Express data to start loading for it.

Dat's Fooqed Up!

Just quit the bull and get a .264 Mag.....or better yet a 6.5 X 55

The marketing and sales people at Remington probably weren't that dumb, so how did it happen?

Did somebody sabotage it purposely? Or did Remington manage to make poor choices every time that there was a choice to be made?

You must not know of the 6.5 PRC