Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Do you think as a side-armed citizen, you could have thwarted the El Paso shooter?

Not capable or have enough substance to answer a question you ask of everyone else

... You're not smart enough to realize it, but you just "outed" yourself in front of everyone...

...now answer it...Man up ..

Im finishing up my response in draught, and BTW nobody was obligated to answer my OP question.

There are several thousand hits on the thread , but nowhere near that many answers-responses,
Im fine with peoples free-willl and all that.

its bitter old fools like you and IVmiker that have your nickers in a wad.

others have answered without 'demanding' anything from anyone else.



lol..... the CF is the place you like to Man Up and demand things...?

Draughting works better that just shooting ones mouth off low attention span cHuKKY style...

You ask for it , now you got it ... ITs only a CF quality response but its sufficient , you don't deserve much else
bitch and nitpick away >>

#######

There are variables that would effect my minset and approach;

did I go in the place alone? , did I go in with family/children?, Am I in the place with an armed buddy I can trust?

I casually mix with a variety of types, at different times , just ordinary no conflict family guys who dont want to risk dying
[if their kids are not involved] ,some are tradesmen , or ordinary security job types of varying willingness or ability,
another is a federal LEO of quality I don't know, another is a seasoned Tier 1 vet that has piled up Alqaeda type bad guys,
has been on the teams designated for Anti- terror/hostage retrieval of political leaders during G20 world summit gatherings,
.. he has also been shot, stabbed, copped blasts from landmines and IEDs etc. ..he has lived and breathed it for decades
whether working for Gov or as a mercenary, he bares the scares but is still fit and active in the game, you don't want to screw
with him...and going by his appearance, chances are you would pick him out of a crowd in Walmart etc.


so If I'm alone [more typically] , or fortunately with someone like that , or some cowering jelly-heart [when stuff goes down],
I doubt I would be the exactly the same person, cause others can and do have effect on you.
Depends who I am with would determine how much I may have to bite the bullet and step up ...or step back/down,
and let another with far superior nerve/skill /experience take precedence.


If there with your own family, they are priority #1,.. if I am there with my buddy and his children they become #1 in the absence of mine,
you may engage or go back in by choice , but you try and secure their well being first by what means available /necessary.
iF you can help others along the way all the better.

Groups of of besieged young little school children , yes I believe I would put myself at more risk for them than general adults.
I could not bring myself to think those kids are in there on their own between a rock and hard place, and me safe.

caring about the well being of cops would come below all of them.

Collateral damage, - yes it is a big concern for me... IF I could bring myself to play sensible hero that's great,
I would not want to play hero at any price.

>>>>>>>
FIGHT or FLIGHT
>>>>>>>

A natural thing in people, to much fight or flight can be inappropriate, not enough also can be in appropriate.
Striking the balance and the correct timing ?...can be tough, ...even more so in changing-highly dynamic circumstances.

then sometimes is NOT all Fight or Flight...,it can be SIT TIGHT and be ready for either of the other two.

Rushing toward / to engage Gunfire;

I don't like that word, rushing implies rashness and foolhardiness....QUICK thinking and QUICK acting with your head screwed on
- thats different....being proactive does not have to mean utterly rash reckless heroics.

You are taught the same thing when dealing with emergency situation power-engine failures in aircraft , ocean dunkings/sinking aircraft etc,
and when first responding to medically assist injured/trapped people in highly precarious situations,

You may not have much time [relatively speaking] ideally you think and pro-act quickly as trained and as is appropriate,
not Rash panic reactions.

Dangers can unfold and lurk seen and unseen{less obvious}...scatterbrain rashness can get you in seriously debilitating deep schitt
you could have reasonably minimised or avoided while still on the way to hopefully getting the demanding job done to some good degree,
...try not to become a victim of yourself out of your own sheer bonehead arrogant blind minded stupidity, thus undermining what limited
chances you may have had to make best opportunity of.

I always remember my flight instructor telling me that how you train and how well you do something in the final exam,
is stricter and not what I would expect of you in real world situation , there is some leeway.
In practice, you don't want to bend the machine in engine failure emergency landings cause you still need to need to train in it
and the owner won't be very happy.
In unexpected REAL emergencies, it ok If you end up bending the machine if everyone walks away alive and unhurt.
that's still a great effective emergency landing..

The thing about air related emergencies , is that unlike a shooting encounter , I DONT have the option to run away or hide,
I am obligated to adapt and deal with right there and then or die... if I don't it only gets worse and ONLY to my disadvantage if I don't.
some of that 'cant run away take responsibility' , flows over and partly effects other areas of my attitude to life.

I suppose that principle can kinda apply to a reasonably competent ability foot forward CCW person willing to risk their life for a worthy cause,
..dont expect to proficiently textbook 'double tap' a perp like you do on paper or like a seasoned pro... but don't automatically think you cannot
potentially contribute to stopping or minimizing the damage an easily peterbed active perp has in mind.

if you by chance you happen to come upon an onfire kickass perp who really knows his schitt and is not phased , well you may have option
to retreat ...or you take a bullet cause it wasnt your day, . such is life, just remember you roll the dice every time you head out the front door.
(whether you have your Witts about you or not)...what may greatly determine your day come what may,...will be your own awareness, attitude
willingness and mindset.

Outcomes in life are not guaranteed and you can be down on yourself If you don't Get the outcome you expected,
but one may have to ask whether ones expectations were realistic relative to the situation, your oportunities and abilities.

*****. *******
Folks should read about what a team of quickly scratched together last reminent mixed bag of 'very ordinary' US servicemen achieved
in the Ardennes Offensive,
While many other servicemen were abandoning their positions, vehicles, and weapons running in fear of the advancing German armor,
[some say in justified good sense] ..these guys decided they were going to hold a vital crossroad the Germans desperately needed to advance....

considering what they were up against youd think they were truly crazy and sucidial ,

As it turned out, their determination,courage and resilience put a much UNexpected spanner in the Germans armoured spearhead
advance to the west....their efforts at holding that cross road proved vital to the thwarting an aggressive German offensive, they seriously
bogged the Germans momentum down.
Those guys showed extraordinary nerve, courage and discipline well beyond expectation and there weren't trained nothing like the 101st.
They may have just pulled it out of their asses without know they could really could do it , but Its a fact that did achieve what I stated,
and they made a serious difference to the how the Ardennes offensive went.

[bleep] this, I am not going to whimper and cry while covering my head trying to keep myself alive while others die....

... I will not spend the rest of my days knowing that I could have done something but was a [bleep] worthless self interested coward...

... if I'm close enough to engage then I engage. Otherwise I help others to safety. Potential consequences be damned...

Yes but they would have to be dang careful they didn't get shot by LEO responding mistaking them for the bad guy.

I recall reading in the book, "Band of Brothers". The surviving members of Easy Company said they they took much more risk their first few days in combat than they would later. In a short period of time those who survived learned that minimizing risk was the key to survival.

It seems like a no brainer, but as young men new to the situation, they didn't truly realize that they could be killed. It didn't take long before they understood that they were in a situation that they would be lucky to survive.

After that they stopped taking unnecessary risks.

Same with domestic shooting situations. If you choose to engage the shooter, you better have a good plan that minimizes your risk or you're just going to die.

I recall reading in the book, "Band of Brothers". The surviving members of Easy Company said they they took much more risk their first few days in combat than they would later. In a short period of time those who survived learned that minimizing risk was the key to survival.

It seems like a no brainer, but as young men new to the situation, they didn't truly realize that they could be killed. It didn't take long before they understood that they were in a situation that they would be lucky to survive.

After that they stopped taking unnecessary risks.

Same with domestic shooting situations. If you choose to engage the shooter, you better have a good plan that minimizes your risk or you're just going to die.

How the average CCW holder views himself.




Reality