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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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You know I get the apprehension over the red flag laws, but what about red flags raised over anyone who gets 5150’d, would that be acceptable to you?
5150 isn’t arbitrary, it isn’t political, it’s a medical professional stating you are a danger to yourself or others. Seems like something that makes sense, if it doesn’t, then frankly I think you are willing to put the public at risk in order not to budge an inch?
I’m pretty sure that it is already the case that if you are deemed a danger, they would already come get your firearms, so let them deem that a red flag and now they can’t say we don’t care or unwilling to make common sense gun law. Not political? Maybe not now, but whatever it is, if it is given the power to confiscate people's guns, it will become political. It has to. There's no alternative. You're analyzing gun control proposals as if their purpose is to prevent people from being wounded and killed. But that's not their purpose; that's never been their purpose. You have to address them according to their real purpose, not their advertised smoke-screen purpose. Originally, the purpose of gun-control laws was to keep guns out of the hands of black people, so that they couldn't defend themselves against pogroms from the Ku Klux Klan and other similar groups. Now it's to keep guns out of the hands of dissidents, so that they cannot substantively oppose the progressive agenda. The biggest obstacle between the socialists and where they want to be is the hundreds of millions of people in this country who believe that certain property belongs privately to them, rather than universally to the commune. The socialists have to get that property away from them. If they have guns, the progressives' job is much harder. Therefore...gun control. Anybody who is seriously concerned about people's safety will understand immediately that you can't keep guns out of the hands of crazy people, no matter what you do. Laws don't work, doctors don't work, background checks don't work, even prisons don't always work. There are just too many available guns out there. If you're really concerned about people's safety, you'll work on the other end of the situation: not making sure the wrong people don't have guns, but making sure the right people do have guns and know how and when to use them. Good post, Barak.
![[Linked Image from images7.memedroid.com]](https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED555/651dcaab819c9.jpeg)
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,597
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2017
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This really pisses me off! So under these red flag laws, my crazy druggie cousin can call the police and tell them I’m a threat to society because he’s mad at me because I wouldn’t loan him $50 to go get high so at 5am the next morning the police are knocking at my door to confiscate my firearms??? This is fuggin obsurd! Not only is it absurd it’s a violation of your rights! Besides, you would think police in Maryland would have better things to do in that slum infested hell hole!
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,479
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
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You're thinkin again, in site of past results. Mathews was the camel's nose in the tent of liberty. It decided that a person's money benefits could be taken before a full court hearing, as long as there was a process in place that guaranteed a court hearing at a date in the future. That ruling was perverted into the "process" for ex parte protection orders, which haven't been overturned by the Supremes or anybody else. IDK how long it's been, but at least 20 years since the EP crap began, and the Supremes haven't taken a case about it. State courts have upheld it. And the ex parte procedure was adopted by the Red Flag crowd, doin a different thing, in the same way.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,370
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,370 |
I'm not in favor of red flag laws because they are unconstitutional, but pulling your gun on two cops is just plain stupid. Maybe the old dude was crazy.....probably thought he was Matt Dillon or something. Actually, they're probably not unconstitutional, but it will get litigated. The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. - Second Amendment The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated. - Fourth Amendment No person shall be deprived of property, without due process of law. - Fifth Amendment civil forfeiture
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,154
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2008
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I'm not in favor of red flag laws because they are unconstitutional, but pulling your gun on two cops is just plain stupid. Maybe the old dude was crazy.....probably thought he was Matt Dillon or something. He probably thought he was a minute man, and was wondering why he didn't hear the call to arms in the middle of the night. I mean, since we're speculating. P.S. The minute men standing up to the world's largest standing army was just plain stupid, too. They won that war you know. I do know. That doesn't change the fact that it was stupid. But, at times, people have to do stupid stuff to avoid becoming oppressed. Freedom doesn't belong to cowards, no matter how smart they are.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
Guy's niece turned him in because she didnt think he need a gun. Admitted he was not a danger AFTER the fact. Dont forget the 5am part of the story She, and the judge allowing It to go forward need to be drawn and quartered. Family reunions should be fun from here on out... Prison time at the very least, their actions cost a man his life. Gonna be tough to sue for his untimely killing...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2014
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Looks like McConnell is leading the charge to neuter the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and the 5th Amendments for gun owning Americans. He's pushing for Trump's desired new Red Flag laws at the Federal level. Trump has betrayed his oath. His principled loyalty and understanding of the Constitution is almost nonexistent. You are 100 percent right... 1,2,4,5 All down the drain
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
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Has Wayne LaPierre weighed in on this? Is NRA going whole hog against this usurpation of constitutional rights? I prefer we let it pass if it can be passed and try for a court decision hopefully nullifying it. We are spinning our wheels dealing with congress.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,370
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,370 |
Guy's niece turned him in because she didnt think he need a gun. Admitted he was not a danger AFTER the fact. Dont forget the 5am part of the story She, and the judge allowing It to go forward need to be drawn and quartered. Family reunions should be fun from here on out... Prison time at the very least, their actions cost a man his life. Gonna be tough to sue for his untimely killing... Nobody gonna do nuffin
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Red flag laws are unconstitutional for several reasons. You are assumed quilty when someone makes the accusation and then must prove your innocence. Even if you are completely cooperative and hand over all your firearms there is no guarantee you will get them back once the issue is resolved in your favor. LE will go through your guns and take what they want. The rest will be destroyed or lost and when you go to pick them up, they won't return them, you will be told sorry Charlie.
People get emotional about their firearms, not because of the firearm itself, but because of the memories associated with them. Hunts with your grandfather or you dad. Days spent in the field and conversations with good friends. As we get older we enjoy looking at our guns and remembering days gone by. For some those days are over and no more memories will be made.
The same is not true of hammers and drills. Beyond that, they represent your status as a free citizen of a free nation. Disarming a free man is to make him a slave, and our instinct as Americans is to resist enslavement, even to the point of death. Great post.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
Guy's niece turned him in because she didnt think he need a gun. Admitted he was not a danger AFTER the fact. Dont forget the 5am part of the story She, and the judge allowing It to go forward need to be drawn and quartered. Family reunions should be fun from here on out... Prison time at the very least, their actions cost a man his life. Gonna be tough to sue for his untimely killing... Nobody gonna do nuffin I was just referring to the family turning him in and getting an unexpected (by them) bad result... no chance of them suing for anything now...
Last edited by Sitka deer; 08/12/19.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
You know I get the apprehension over the red flag laws, but what about red flags raised over anyone who gets 5150’d, would that be acceptable to you?
5150 isn’t arbitrary, it isn’t political, it’s a medical professional stating you are a danger to yourself or others. Seems like something that makes sense, if it doesn’t, then frankly I think you are willing to put the public at risk in order not to budge an inch?
I’m pretty sure that it is already the case that if you are deemed a danger, they would already come get your firearms, so let them deem that a red flag and now they can’t say we don’t care or unwilling to make common sense gun law. What, like the "medical professional" that recently categorically stated in front of witness' that I had throat cancer...about two days before the specialist said the indian ćunt didn't know what he was talking about. Do you mean that sort of "medical professional"?
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,010
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,010 |
There is tremendous potential for these red flag laws to be abused. This is probably how they will turn out more often than not. Sometimes it will go the other way. When they start violating the second amendment, they lose some support from the only folks left that still supported them.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,006
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2006
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If a man is deemed a threat to society and they remove his firearms just what have they accomplished?
If only his firearms are removed is he not still a threat?
These recent shooters were all described as angry. Will a potential threat not be more enraged after his property is taken away?
The gun is a tool. The gun is not the threat in this instance, so what is accomplished by only removing the tool? Wont the "threat" simply choose a different tool and perhaps be even more motivated to use it?
Once again the real motivation in all of this is gun control and their elimination. Public safety is NOT the true goal.
"An open message for all Democrats; "Look you are nothing and your work is worthless. Anyone who chooses you is detestable."
Isaiah 41:24 (HCSB)
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Joined: Sep 2014
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,252 |
I'm not in favor of red flag laws because they are unconstitutional, but pulling your gun on two cops is just plain stupid. Maybe the old dude was crazy.....probably thought he was Matt Dillon or something. You half to take a stand sometimes...
"Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money." -Tom T Hall
Molon Labe
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,140
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,140 |
Old news - this happened 9 months ago...
But it's still a good message how this 'red flag law' crap is gonna end for some folks.. These laws need to be eliminated at the SCOTUS asap..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,140
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,140 |
Once again the real motivation in all of this is gun control and their elimination. Public safety is NOT the true goal. SPOT ON!
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,871
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,871 |
Well where is the NRA why are they not challenging it in court or is Wayne out buying some more new suits to look good?? They only way to stop them (red flag laws) is for the court to declare them unconstitutional and thus shut them down. Just my take. Cheers NC
don't judge until you have walked a mile in other persons' moccasins'
SUM QUOD SUM........HOMINEM TE ESSE MEMENTO
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,559
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,559 |
Well where is the NRA why are they not challenging it in court or is Wayne out buying some more new suits to look good?? They only way to stop them (red flag laws) is for the court to declare them unconstitutional and thus shut them down. Just my take. Cheers NC The NRA supports them.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,370
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,370 |
Well where is the NRA why are they not challenging it in court or is Wayne out buying some more new suits to look good?? They only way to stop them (red flag laws) is for the court to declare them unconstitutional and thus shut them down. Just my take. Cheers NC The NRA supports them. BINGO 100% correct
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