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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,815 Likes: 5 |
Where do you practice?
This shouldn't be an issue, given we have a Constitution that was designed primarily to protect natural human rights.
My late father/Esq stated that his profession was primarily protected by attorney-politicians who made sure attorneys were necessary and increasingly so by self-serving laws.
He was no slouch ambulance chaser and was highly respected in this State...served 12 years as Chairman of the State Board of Bar Examiners and was one of the drafters of the Bar Exam each year. He would no doubt have clobbered some of your assertions and notions.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. We just don't see eye-to-eye on this issue and the ramifications. Why the frick are you talking about the Constitution? That is a dead instrument. Honest Abe ripped it up and wiped his ass with it 150 years ago. Seriously, we saw how this schit show was going and tried to leave then. But you damned Yankees drug us back in. Now you expect us to give a damn because your states at taking your rights? Go find a map of the states that have red flag laws in place, only one of them is in the South and it has been occupied by the entire state of New York. I mean, I’m broadly sympathetic, but quit crying about the Constitution. It’s been a dead letter for a Long damned time and most on this board will cheer its destruction when the subject comes up. Can't disagree with what you've said about the Constitution. Most of my practice is focused on the Constitution, but it might as well be based on a random number generator the way federal courts work. If you didn’t realize in law school when they first told you about the case where the Roosevelt administration used the Commerce Clause to keep a man from growing a backyard garden that they can do whatever the frick they want, then you weren’t paying attention. And I’m using “you” in the general sense. That isn’t aimed at you specifically.
Last edited by JoeBob; 08/16/19.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
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Where do you practice?
This shouldn't be an issue, given we have a Constitution that was designed primarily to protect natural human rights.
My late father/Esq stated that his profession was primarily protected by attorney-politicians who made sure attorneys were necessary and increasingly so by self-serving laws.
He was no slouch ambulance chaser and was highly respected in this State...served 12 years as Chairman of the State Board of Bar Examiners and was one of the drafters of the Bar Exam each year. He would no doubt have clobbered some of your assertions and notions.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. We just don't see eye-to-eye on this issue and the ramifications. Why the frick are you talking about the Constitution? That is a dead instrument. Honest Abe ripped it up and wiped his ass with it 150 years ago. Seriously, we saw how this schit show was going and tried to leave then. But you damned Yankees drug us back in. Now you expect us to give a damn because your states at taking your rights? Go find a map of the states that have red flag laws in place, only one of them is in the South and it has been occupied by the entire state of New York. I mean, I’m broadly sympathetic, but quit crying about the Constitution. It’s been a dead letter for a Long damned time and most on this board will cheer its destruction when the subject comes up. Can't disagree with what you've said about the Constitution. Most of my practice is focused on the Constitution, but it might as well be based on a random number generator the way federal courts work. They are a dangerous problem with the life tenure of the judges. It's a hard call as to whether that is better or worse than termed appointments, which can change the federal courts as a whole a complete 180.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2010
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Where do you practice?
This shouldn't be an issue, given we have a Constitution that was designed primarily to protect natural human rights.
My late father/Esq stated that his profession was primarily protected by attorney-politicians who made sure attorneys were necessary and increasingly so by self-serving laws.
He was no slouch ambulance chaser and was highly respected in this State...served 12 years as Chairman of the State Board of Bar Examiners and was one of the drafters of the Bar Exam each year. He would no doubt have clobbered some of your assertions and notions.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. We just don't see eye-to-eye on this issue and the ramifications. Why the frick are you talking about the Constitution? That is a dead instrument. Honest Abe ripped it up and wiped his ass with it 150 years ago. Seriously, we saw how this schit show was going and tried to leave then. But you damned Yankees drug us back in. Now you expect us to give a damn because your states at taking your rights? Go find a map of the states that have red flag laws in place, only one of them is in the South and it has been occupied by the entire state of New York. I mean, I’m broadly sympathetic, but quit crying about the Constitution. It’s been a dead letter for a Long damned time and most on this board will cheer its destruction when the subject comes up. Can't disagree with what you've said about the Constitution. Most of my practice is focused on the Constitution, but it might as well be based on a random number generator the way federal courts work. If you didn’t realize in law school when they first told you about the case where the Roosevelt administration used the Commerce Clause to keep a man from growing a backyard garden that they can do whatever the frick they want, then you weren’t paying attention. And I’m using “you” in the general sense. That isn’t aimed at you specifically. I'm something of a crusader...I fight the ACLU for a living.
Eliminate qualified immunity and you'll eliminate cops who act like they are above the law.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 |
Where do you practice?
This shouldn't be an issue, given we have a Constitution that was designed primarily to protect natural human rights.
My late father/Esq stated that his profession was primarily protected by attorney-politicians who made sure attorneys were necessary and increasingly so by self-serving laws.
He was no slouch ambulance chaser and was highly respected in this State...served 12 years as Chairman of the State Board of Bar Examiners and was one of the drafters of the Bar Exam each year. He would no doubt have clobbered some of your assertions and notions.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. We just don't see eye-to-eye on this issue and the ramifications. Why the frick are you talking about the Constitution? That is a dead instrument. Honest Abe ripped it up and wiped his ass with it 150 years ago. Seriously, we saw how this schit show was going and tried to leave then. But you damned Yankees drug us back in. Now you expect us to give a damn because your states at taking your rights? Go find a map of the states that have red flag laws in place, only one of them is in the South and it has been occupied by the entire state of New York. I mean, I’m broadly sympathetic, but quit crying about the Constitution. It’s been a dead letter for a Long damned time and most on this board will cheer its destruction when the subject comes up. Can't disagree with what you've said about the Constitution. Most of my practice is focused on the Constitution, but it might as well be based on a random number generator the way federal courts work. If you didn’t realize in law school when they first told you about the case where the Roosevelt administration used the Commerce Clause to keep a man from growing a backyard garden that they can do whatever the frick they want, then you weren’t paying attention. And I’m using “you” in the general sense. That isn’t aimed at you specifically. I'm something of a crusader...I fight the ACLU for a living. Well...give up fighting the Civil War and quit flaming Yankees who want to fight along side you. 
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,815 Likes: 5 |
Meh, you guys have already lost the fight. About all you can do is move.
Look with guns specifically, most on this board have watched it happen before their eyes and they still don’t get it. When gun control failed on the national level after Sandy Hook, they changed tactics. I remember reading it at the time. They started focusing on the states. And now, every state with an unassailable Democratic majority has, for the most part a gun control wish list as law.
Last edited by JoeBob; 08/16/19.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,342 Likes: 9 |
Meh, you guys have already lost the fight. About all you can do is move.
Look with guns specifically, most on this board have watched it happen before their eyes and they still don’t get it. When gun control failed on the national level after Sandy Hook, they changed tactics. I remember reading it at the time. They started focusing on the states. And now, every state with an unassailable Democratic majority has, for the most part a gun control wish list as law. They made states a priority and are winning huge.
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,890
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
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Interesting that these statutes don't require the identification of a particularized (pre)victim in order to issue the injunction.
abusus non tollit usum
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
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This link goes to an article in a very liberal weekly in the heart of Bernie Sanders country. Read it, because this legislation may well become the model for a federal law. It’s not about “mentally ill”. The operative language concerns those who “present a danger to themselves or others.” Think about that a bit. Who decides that? Your doctor could decide it! You heard it around The ‘Fire first. I have always said there should be 2 separate sources that agree on you mental state and then you are taken into custody and a hearing had to judge your mentally state and then only are the guns taken for a stated period of time. Only taking the guns does nothing for or to you as you can get other guns by hook or by crook. Just my take on things. Cheers NC
don't judge until you have walked a mile in other persons' moccasins'
SUM QUOD SUM........HOMINEM TE ESSE MEMENTO
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I would propose that firearms could be taken ex parte, but that within 14 days of the order the state must file and pursue an involuntary commitment or the guns go back. I would also provide criminal and civil penalties for falsely reporting someone to be a risk. Another traitor. Some one ask TRH just how would he keep nut jobs from using guns?
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: May 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
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Only taking the guns does nothing for or to you as you can get other guns by hook or by crook. Just my take on things. Cheers NC
That's the elegance. It's "narrowly tailored".
abusus non tollit usum
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
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If you’re too unstable to owe a firearm in society then you’re too dangerous to be allowed to walk amongst the civilized world. Send them off to a large island turned insane asylum......or whatever, they just don’t get to live with those of us that wish to live peacefully.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
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You can get an ex parte protective order and get your firearms confiscated in Kansas tomorrow.
Your post is a good example of why we are losing the fight. We don’t understand the fight. There is ZERO chance of a federal red flag law. It doesn’t work that way. Every red flag law will be put in place by a state legislature.
You talked in some of your post as if we have avoided UBC and other measures since Sandy Hook. Far from it. Lots of states have very restrictive UBC, Red Flag laws, AND AWB bans more restrictive than anything ever proposed on the national level while people on this board and elsewhere stay focused on what the idiots in Congress are doing. You are not responding to my arguments or questions, but instead attacking me. I've never heard of anybody having their guns confiscated due to an ex parte protective order in Kansas, nor is there a Red Flag Law. If there is no chance of a Federal Red Flag Law, then why are you arguing for one? Seventeen states aren't even half of the US. The only states I know of that restrict assault weapons are California and New York. There is very little possibility anything like that will be passed in my state or those that I spend time in with the possible exception of Texas, which seems to be going south quickly commensurate with the flood of illegals. As to Sandy Hook specifically, Cali already had an AWB in place. IIRC New York's did come about after Sandy hook and ostensibly in response to it. It is hard to beat a bunch of New York City liberals and the ultra-rich former mayor of the same city when their monies are focused on anti-gun legislation. I'm not the problem here. The problem is defeatist attitudes such as your own.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,815 Likes: 5 |
You can get an ex parte protective order and get your firearms confiscated in Kansas tomorrow.
Your post is a good example of why we are losing the fight. We don’t understand the fight. There is ZERO chance of a federal red flag law. It doesn’t work that way. Every red flag law will be put in place by a state legislature.
You talked in some of your post as if we have avoided UBC and other measures since Sandy Hook. Far from it. Lots of states have very restrictive UBC, Red Flag laws, AND AWB bans more restrictive than anything ever proposed on the national level while people on this board and elsewhere stay focused on what the idiots in Congress are doing. You are not responding to my arguments or questions, but instead attacking me. I've never heard of anybody having their guns confiscated due to an ex parte protective order in Kansas, nor is there a Red Flag Law. If there is no chance of a Federal Red Flag Law, then why are you arguing for one? Seventeen states aren't even half of the US. The only states I know of that restrict assault weapons are California and New York. There is very little possibility anything like that will be passed in my state or those that I spend time in with the possible exception of Texas, which seems to be going south quickly commensurate with the flood of illegals. As to Sandy Hook specifically, Cali already had an AWB in place. IIRC New York's did come about after Sandy hook and ostensibly in response to it. It is hard to beat a bunch of New York City liberals and the ultra-rich former mayor of the same city when their monies are focused on anti-gun legislation. I'm not the problem here. The problem is defeatist attitudes such as your own. How in the blue blazes do you get that I’m arguing for a federal red flag law? Seriously, are you people taking crazy pills?
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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JoeBob, I'm going to be a hardass on this. Anything short of a psych hold with exam and adjudication is insufficient due process to deprive someone of a Constitutional right. Matter of sufficient evidence, to constitute due process. A judge is not competent to determine if someone is a danger to himself or others unless the subject is stark raving mad and declares his intentions. Not so sure your 14 day TRO would hold water if it was challenged. Seems like a psyche hold would make that moot.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,815 Likes: 5 |
JoeBob, I'm going to be a hardass on this. Anything short of a psych hold with exam and adjudication is insufficient due process to deprive someone of a Constitutional right. Matter of sufficient evidence, to constitute due process. A judge is not competent to determine if someone is a danger to himself or others unless the subject is stark raving mad and declares his intentions. Not so sure your 14 day TRO would hold water if it was challenged. Seems like a psyche hold would make that moot. My point is not to advocate for this but rather to tell you that the 14 day TRO on ex parte orders is already in effect in every state. One of the things I was just throwing out there is to make it part of the mental incapacity adjudication process in order to guarantee more due process than what you get in some places in protective orders. My rationale being that if they are going to take your guns, they need to prove that you are crazy, or give them back.
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Posts: 56,174 Likes: 16
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,174 Likes: 16 |
If you’re too unstable to owe a firearm in society then you’re too dangerous to be allowed to walk amongst the civilized world. Send them off to a large island turned insane asylum......or whatever, they just don’t get to live with those of us that wish to live peacefully. Here ya go, and we own it.... ![[Linked Image]](https://loopnewslive.blob.core.windows.net/liveimage/sites/default/files/2019-04/TEbpxsxANT.jpg) Navassa Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navassa_Island
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408 |
does anybody but you know exactly how many guns you have and where they are at?
My diploma is a DD214
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35 |
If you didn’t realize in law school when they first told you about the case where the Roosevelt administration used the Commerce Clause to keep a man from growing a backyard garden that they can do whatever the frick they want, then you weren’t paying attention.
And I’m using “you” in the general sense. That isn’t aimed at you specifically.
Yep, I was blown away when we got to those cases.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35 |
How in the blue blazes do you get that I’m arguing for a federal red flag law? Seriously, are you people taking crazy pills?
We've been thinking that lately you've lost it. We remember you as being against government usurpations of power.
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