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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Such deliberation is not needed, rather does it needs to be over flogged. Only a fool will think we are all alone in this universe. that is where to start all this from. Now, Call it what you want, Religion, Magik or Science but all these thing were created/made by an entity, God or what anyone wants to believe. The Universe is fat too complicated to be existing by chance, the possibility of the chances that will take for the universe to form itself all by itself without an original vaccum so absolutely impossible. As a Christian i belive GOD made all things possible. Science can't understand God and that where the problem lies.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
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Takes the same degree of faith to believe the parables and prophecies put forth in various theological texts, as it does to believe the parables and prophecies put forth in support of the theory of evolution.
Nope. We have the fossils and the DNA. In other words, we have evidence is support of the theory of evolution by natural selection, so no faith required. No difference from deriving a conclusion from written words, and deriving a conclusion from fossilized artifacts.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,717 Likes: 2 |
Why do educated people believe the evidence of evolution and uneducated people believe pre-literate myths that have been proven not to be true?
Being uneducated should not be a requirement for being a Christian.
Talking snakes, 6000 year old universes, worldwide floods? None of this has anything to do with the message of Jesus. Or with reality.
Not to mention Ringman's feeble attempts to explain gas pressure vs. gravity. While those who believe this drivel are sincere, they are more to be pitied than censured. Real science is hard. Yep. Especially hard to come up with that missing link. I might add, even though a few times in the past top scientists have informed us they did so. Once was the discovery of a tooth found by one of those tooth fairies, until later research proved it to be from a pig. Keep placing your faith in men, rather than He who created them.
Last edited by jaguartx; 08/25/19.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
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The ones in over their heads are those who try to defend magical explanations for the existence of the world and life when all the evidence points to widespread solar system formation from clouds of cosmic gas clouds and debris from past Supernova. Life evolves, how it began is not yet understood but is a work in progress.
The argument; we don't know, therefore God, is neither a valid argument or explanation. But who is defending "magical explanations"? Is it not those Darwinians whom the evidence has forced to hypothecate space aliens to account for the incredibly complex information necessary to instantiate life? It is true some proponents of intelligent design hypothecate God, but the theory itself does not require that God be the intelligent artificer. It only requires some sort of highly advanced intelligence. You mention the solar system, yet the Universe itself appears to have begun in a singularity of time and space out of literally nothing! Cosmologists have been very unhappy with the Big Bank theory since its inception because it implies a beginning and the instantiation of matter out of virtually nothing, thus essentially confirming the Biblical concept of a virtually inexplicable and miraculous creation event. That apparently magical" event is what science tells us occurred and what a coincidence that it dove tails with the Biblical idea of a special creation event (and a beginning). We are now at 90 pages and you've finally admitted "how life began is not yet understood, but a work in progress" and blithely, "life evolves". "The work in progress (how life began)" is, as a research venture, virtually dead. Read the literature. Scientists are at a loss to explain the instantiation of life and many are quite blunt about the bleak prospects of ever finding a naturalistic explanation. But hope and faith spring eternal! In any event, what does "life evolves" mean? If it means that finch beaks change in size in consequence of environmental stressors, that is wholly non-controversial, but that is not what Neo-Darwinism is really about, Its about the much grander claim that the same process that causes variation in finch beak size also has the power to morph a finch into existence from some other creature in the first instance. But that idea is contradicted by the evidence at virtually every turn, including (and especially) the fossil record. What we know is that even with intelligent intervention (in the laboratory) species can only change so far (not into new species, mind you) and when the special breeding and selection (by human intelligence) is withdrawn, the specially bred specimens revert back to the mean within a few generations. Thousands of years of dog breeding by human intelligence has not changed a dog into a cat. In other words, biology and genetics overwhelmingly suggests the immutability of species, not their changeability. Finally, the argument isn't "we don't know, therefore God". The argument is: we know that in all of human experience specified complex information comes from pre-existing intelligence. Specified complex information is a condition precedent to the existence of life. It is essentially impossible that natural processes could have created this information. Reasoning from the evidence to the best explanation then (the same logic Darwin applied!) the best explanation is that some sort of pre-existing super intelligence is responsible for the instantiation and variety of life on earth. Great post and thanks for it.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Posts: 131,743 Likes: 20
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,743 Likes: 20 |
Yep. Especially hard to come up with that missing link. We found those a very long time ago. You're stuck in the 19th Century. Look at the crown on top of this homo erectus skull. What gorilla or chimpanzee has one anything close to that, making room for a huge brain, by gorilla and chimpanzee standards, yet not nearly so large a brain as ours.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
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Such deliberation is not needed, rather does it needs to be over flogged. Only a fool will think we are all alone in this universe. that is where to start all this from. Now, Call it what you want, Religion, Magik or Science but all these thing were created/made by an entity, God or what anyone wants to believe. The Universe is fat too complicated to be existing by chance, the possibility of the chances that will take for the universe to form itself all by itself without an original vaccum so absolutely impossible. As a Christian i belive GOD made all things possible. Science can't understand God and that where the problem lies. “It is all a matter of time scale. An event that would be unthinkable in a hundred years may be inevitable in a hundred million. For as long as there been humans we have searched for our place in the cosmos. Where are we? Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a hum-drum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people. This perspective is a courageous continuation of our penchant for constructing and testing mental models of the skies; the Sun as a red-hot stone, the stars as a celestial flame, the Galaxy as the backbone of night.” Carl Sagan
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
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Such deliberation is not needed, rather does it needs to be over flogged. Only a fool will think we are all alone in this universe. that is where to start all this from. Now, Call it what you want, Religion, Magik or Science but all these thing were created/made by an entity, God or what anyone wants to believe. The Universe is fat too complicated to be existing by chance, the possibility of the chances that will take for the universe to form itself all by itself without an original vaccum so absolutely impossible. As a Christian i belive GOD made all things possible. Science can't understand God and that where the problem lies. Science can understand how man has a desire to develop and believe in a god and that is where the real problem of your argument lies.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 60,912 Likes: 14
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 60,912 Likes: 14 |
I am not about to worship science. My God does not change.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
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The state and condition a star is observed to be in tells you what stage of life they are in, a red giant for example is a star that has used most of its hydrogen and has expanded to a more diffuse state, cooler surface, etc. Google 'young star formation regions' to get pictures and information on stars forming withn clouds of hydrogen. So you don't know. I happen to know, I even do a bit of amateur astronomy, star gazing using a Maksitov reflector, the problem is that you are not willing to consider what I say or what I explain. That's why you should educate yourself by looking at the evidence of star formation for yourself. Not just telescope pictures of star nurseries and star formation but the physics driving star formation, the nuclear process, fusion, hydrogen to helium, etc, by which stars go through the stages of their lifecycles and how this is observed by astronomers and astrophysicists. How many stars have you seen form while you watched? O yea. None. Theoretically it take longer than several life times. Tell us again how the first life appeared. O yea. No one knows. Your faith is the unseen and untestable is fantastic. Too bad it's in yourself instead of the Lasting God.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
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Why do educated people believe the evidence of evolution and uneducated people believe pre-literate myths that have been proven not to be true?
Being uneducated should not be a requirement for being a Christian.
Talking snakes, 6000 year old universes, worldwide floods? None of this has anything to do with the message of Jesus. Or with reality.
Not to mention Ringman's feeble attempts to explain gas pressure vs. gravity. While those who believe this drivel are sincere, they are more to be pitied than censured. Jesus quoted Genesis more than any other book. It has lots "to do with the message of Jesus."
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
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looking like a case of extra-terrestrial bioengineering, given how rapid the changes were occurring? well, i know that's a minority view not in keeping with current thinking of god, nor of pure scientific evolution. but who knows? just because there's a majority view(s), and miniority view(s), where does that leave us? i'd suggest that in the movement of increased brain size, might there be yet an even larger brained individual just around the corner?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
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With the universe being about 6,000 years old there;s not much time to play with. God added in stars that appear to be of different ages just to fool you infidels. A couple years ago there was a non-creationist astronomer on TV who developed a program to plot novas and super novas. His program could track the debris up to about a million years. He enlisted the aid of astronomers from around the world to use his program. After a few years the oldest they could find was about 7,000 years since its destruction. Maybe one of you evolutionists could fill them in on the missing years. Or is it you guys are not accepting facts. Like I asked, If there was an Infinite Intelligent Energy Being could He create what we now see in its present state? This is not a trick question. And its more philosophical than science or religion.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,743 Likes: 20 |
Why do educated people believe the evidence of evolution and uneducated people believe pre-literate myths that have been proven not to be true?
Being uneducated should not be a requirement for being a Christian.
Talking snakes, 6000 year old universes, worldwide floods? None of this has anything to do with the message of Jesus. Or with reality.
Not to mention Ringman's feeble attempts to explain gas pressure vs. gravity. While those who believe this drivel are sincere, they are more to be pitied than censured. Jesus quoted Genesis more than any other book. It has lots "to do with the message of Jesus." " And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, 2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, 3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. 4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. 5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: 6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. 7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. 9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. 10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are called, but few are chosen." Did that really happen, too?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
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With the universe being about 6,000 years old there;s not much time to play with. God added in stars that appear to be of different ages just to fool you infidels. A couple years ago there was a non-creationist astronomer on TV who developed a program to plot novas and super novas. His program could track the debris up to about a million years. He enlisted the aid of astronomers from around the world to use his program. After a few years the oldest they could find was about 7,000 years since its destruction. Maybe one of you evolutionists could fill them in on the missing years. Or is it you guys are not accepting facts. Like I asked, If there was an Infinite Intelligent Energy Being could He create what we now see in its present state? This is not a trick question. And its more philosophical than science or religion. well, to speculate which more than one of us here on the fire are fond of doing, some have suggested the whole thingy is a phase change plasma or chemistry. that causes the stars to come out at night, and the sun to lighten the world up for the benefit of the trees during the day. some are convinced that the trees and humans are mirror images of each other. the trees breathe out, and humans breathe in, and vice versa. but i'm straying from the main objective of the thread, and that's to either substantiate or discredit the evolution hypothesis. what if evolution is just one minor facet of the bigger story? fake news you say? well, we all know about that stuff. i'd like to think the earth is becoming very old. after 6,000 years would that be the case, or not likely?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
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Like I asked, If there was an Infinite Intelligent Energy Being could He create what we now see in its present state? Seriously, why would He? Everything we know, let's take the bible, indicates that the creator wants to make himself known to humanity, not play hide and seek. See the work of Georges Lemaître concerning aging the universe through universal expansion. He was a Jesuit trained Belgian Catholic priest, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics. (The Catholic Church trying to suppress science again. )
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
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some are convinced that the trees and humans are mirror images of each other. the trees breathe out, and humans breathe in, and vice versa. Ents.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Posts: 30,993
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,993 |
Takes the same degree of faith to believe the parables and prophecies put forth in various theological texts, as it does to believe the parables and prophecies put forth in support of the theory of evolution.
Nope. We have the fossils and the DNA. In other words, we have evidence is support of the theory of evolution by natural selection, so no faith required. No difference from deriving a conclusion from written words, and deriving a conclusion from fossilized artifacts. Somebody wrote it, therefore it's true regardless of the evidence? The bible has no evidence foundation equal to the fossil and DNA evidence supporting the theory of evolution by natural selection.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
some are convinced that the trees and humans are mirror images of each other. the trees breathe out, and humans breathe in, and vice versa. Ents. i am personally glad that many orgs. over the world have telescopes set up on mtns, etc. to address the advent of outside objects, groups, etc. traveling toward the urth. people at large are wanting advance warning? scanning the environment is worthwhile. area 51 is our friend. no doubt.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,993 |
I am not about to worship science. My God does not change. Of course he's changed. Introduction of Satan after the Jews spent some time in Babylon. Old Testament vs. New. That's a HUGE change. From stoning homosexuals to the many churches that now cater to them. Christianity's been evolving since before it started.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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