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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 19,495
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 19,495 |
Retired cat herder.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,290
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,290 |
Some will find the taking of their self-defense capability a real hard pill to swallow and may act out. So the liberals can then yell, "See, we told you!".
Red flags are very, very bad for America.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
So every millennial with an Instagram account now has a red flag.
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 3,736
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 3,736 |
No they don’t. But if you call them in they could. Oops sorry for thinking like a Democrat. I’ll say two hail Marie’s . Ed k
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,685
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,685 |
Mad girlfriends and wives will soon realize the power and leverage in this. No judge in his right mind would refuse to uphold a red flag confiscation, much like emergency protective / domestic violence orders.
There WILL be institutional abuse of red flag laws, just a matter of time.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,529
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,529 |
Another great gun law in New Jersey, almost as ridiculous as the law that states you can only go from your house to your hunting location or range with no deviations or stops. This means you can't stop for gas, food, take a piss or pick a friend up. Unbelievable!
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,499
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,499 |
In order to end a final order, the original petitioner or the person who had to surrender their firearms can submit a new form to terminate the order. A hearing is then scheduled to evaluate the request before a judge. If the person who surrendered their firearms is making the request without the support of the original petitioner for their removal, they bear the burden of proof to show they are no longer a risk to themselves or others."
In other words you are guilty until proven innocent!
Questions:
1. Does the gun owner get to try to counter the allegations BEFORE they confiscate the guns (or does the gun owner even know about the "due proess/"
2. Are the LEOs required to keep the guns in good condition, no throwing them in a pl=ile, letting them get rusty, etc.?
Anyone know?
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 919
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 919 |
Another great gun law in New Jersey, almost as ridiculous as the law that states you can only go from your house to your hunting location or range with no deviations or stops. This means you can't stop for gas, food, take a piss or pick a friend up. Unbelievable! Just gotta love that "common sense gun control".
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
Don't look now but "infringement" of your rights is coming!
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,153
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,153 |
Some will find the taking of their self-defense capability a real hard pill to swallow and may act out. So the liberals can then yell, "See, we told you!".
Red flags are very, very bad for America. VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY bad for America... And they need to be litigated out of existence at the SCOTUS PRONTO!!
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,153
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,153 |
Mad girlfriends and wives will soon realize the power and leverage in this. No judge in his right mind would refuse to uphold a red flag confiscation, much like emergency protective / domestic violence orders.
There WILL be institutional AND GOVERNMENTAL abuse of red flag laws, just a matter of time. And time is getting damned SHORT!
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,290
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,290 |
Freedom-loving gun owners are going to be more than a hell of a lot butthurt if someone not so politely asks for their guns, after pushing their door in with a battering ram. America is headed down a dark road.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,801
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,801 |
In order to end a final order, the original petitioner or the person who had to surrender their firearms can submit a new form to terminate the order. A hearing is then scheduled to evaluate the request before a judge. If the person who surrendered their firearms is making the request without the support of the original petitioner for their removal, they bear the burden of proof to show they are no longer a risk to themselves or others."
In other words you are guilty until proven innocent!
Questions:
1. Does the gun owner get to try to counter the allegations BEFORE they confiscate the guns (or does the gun owner even know about the "due proess/"
2. Are the LEOs required to keep the guns in good condition, no throwing them in a pl=ile, letting them get rusty, etc.?
Anyone know? Here is the process. It is pretty much like a protective order and they are pretty much the same, with some minor differences, everywhere. There will be an affidavit made that the person is an imminent danger. A petition for an ex parte order will be prepared based upon the affidavit. That will usually be hand delivered to the judge like a search warrant would be. The judge will consider the petition and the affidavit and if granted, issue the temporary order and set a hearing within 14 days. The order will be served and presumably the firearms confiscated. Then at the hearing the merits of the case will be heard with the accused given the chance to call witnesses, present evidence, impeach evidence and cross examine witnesses. After that hearing a decision will be made by the judge to grant a red flag order or not. If he decides not to, the matter is over and the firearms are returned. If he grants it, then it will be in effect for a year or so from what I’ve seen in most places during which time from what I’ve seen the firearms will be stored or given to family members. At the end of that year, it will expire and the firearms returned. The state or the complainant can petition to have it extended one more time for another year with the person affected given the chance to contest that and have another hearing. Only one extension can be granted and will be considered.
Last edited by JoeBob; 08/30/19.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,631
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,631 |
I doubt that we'll see many red flag petitions denied until such time (if ever) as these laws are challenged & get a SCOTUS decision on constitutionality.
MM
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,801 |
I doubt that we'll see many red flag petitions denied until such time (if ever) as these laws are challenged & get a SCOTUS decision on constitutionality.
MM Depends on the jurisdiction. Judges have opportunities to count votes every time they take the bench.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,631 |
The East Coast & the Left Coast states, along with any other highly or mostly blue states will be where most accusations come, & in those states, few will be denied.
Likely a little better scenario in highly red states.
MM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,685
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,685 |
Wham, you just got elected Judge. Doesn't matter what jurisdiction. A case comes before you: Citizen X's guns have been red-flagged. At the hearing, Witness for the govt. is Citizen X's girlfriend. She testifies that Citizen X has been threatening to shoot up a McDonald's, threatening to shoot her, threatening to shoot her family and then kill himself. Says he sits there all night long cleaning an AR over and over, mumbling about how everyone is out to get him but he is gonna make all of them pay.
Citizen X testifies in his defense: girlfriend is mad because he won't take her on vacation and he has threatened to leave her, but nothing else. He says all of her testimony is BS. He admits to owning a confiscated AR and a thousand rounds of ammo. Says he got a good deal on bulk ammo and he likes to go to the range.
Alright Judge, what you gonna do? This is a simplistic scenario but I think we all know what the Judge is gonna do: err on the side of caution. The side of caution is confiscation. Always will be...
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,196
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,196 |
Don't look now but "infringement" of your rights is here coming! fixt
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,801
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,801 |
Wham, you just got elected Judge. Doesn't matter what jurisdiction. A case comes before you: Citizen X's guns have been red-flagged. At the hearing, Witness for the govt. is Citizen X's girlfriend. She testifies that Citizen X has been threatening to shoot up a McDonald's, threatening to shoot her, threatening to shoot her family and then kill himself. Says he sits there all night long cleaning an AR over and over, mumbling about how everyone is out to get him but he is gonna make all of them pay.
Citizen X testifies in his defense: girlfriend is mad because he won't take her on vacation and he has threatened to leave her, but nothing else. He says all of her testimony is BS. He admits to owning a confiscated AR and a thousand rounds of ammo. Says he got a good deal on bulk ammo and he likes to go to the range.
Alright Judge, what you gonna do? This is a simplistic scenario but I think we all know what the Judge is gonna do: err on the side of caution. The side of caution is confiscation. Always will be... Wham, you just got elected judge. You live in a jurisdiction where fifty percent of the males have an AR, seventy five percent of households have some kind of firearm and 2,000 rounds is just enough for a couple afternoons at the river. Deer season is coming soon and you know that the state rifle association will want the stats of all the red flags you’ve granted. There are no social media posts backing her assertions. No evidence of drug use. And a clean criminal record and no mental health issues. You don’t want an opponent in the next election who says that you aren’t concerned enough with second amendment rights. Now what do you do?
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,685
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,685 |
Wham, you just got elected Judge. Doesn't matter what jurisdiction. A case comes before you: Citizen X's guns have been red-flagged. At the hearing, Witness for the govt. is Citizen X's girlfriend. She testifies that Citizen X has been threatening to shoot up a McDonald's, threatening to shoot her, threatening to shoot her family and then kill himself. Says he sits there all night long cleaning an AR over and over, mumbling about how everyone is out to get him but he is gonna make all of them pay.
Citizen X testifies in his defense: girlfriend is mad because he won't take her on vacation and he has threatened to leave her, but nothing else. He says all of her testimony is BS. He admits to owning a confiscated AR and a thousand rounds of ammo. Says he got a good deal on bulk ammo and he likes to go to the range.
Alright Judge, what you gonna do? This is a simplistic scenario but I think we all know what the Judge is gonna do: err on the side of caution. The side of caution is confiscation. Always will be... Wham, you just got elected judge. You live in a jurisdiction where fifty percent of the males have an AR, seventy five percent of households have some kind of firearm and 2,000 rounds is just enough for a couple afternoons at the river. Deer season is coming soon and you know that the state rifle association will want the stats of all the red flags you’ve granted. There are no social media posts backing her assertions. No evidence of drug use. And a clean criminal record and no mental health issues. You don’t want an opponent in the next election who says that you aren’t concerned enough with second amendment rights. Now what do you do? If I think there is a remote chance that the guy may go on a shooting spree, I look for evidence to support that. And then I confiscate, basing my decision on, and carefully citing, whatever evidence I can hang my hat on to support confiscation. And when the gun lobby starts fussing I tell them Sorry, but I gotta go by the evidence, and the evidence was __________. Cause I am a Judge and am sworn to apply the law to the evidence and if you want a different outcome you need to fuss at the legislature and not me, and blah blah blah. Happens every single day with domestic violence petitions (many of which can temporarily ban possession of firearms if granted) in every jurisdiction in the US.
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