Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Mister Worst Case Scenario-- visit needed

I think it was Prarie Home Companion that used to have a regular spot called "Mister Worst Case Scenario." They'd give him a simple plan like "I'm going away on vaction next week." Mister WCS would then give a list of everything that could go wrong. I need a visit from Mister WCS.

My neighbor came up to the porch on Sunday with the idea for a fishing lake. He wants to damn the creek that runs through our properties and build a 4+ acre impoundment.



I've marked the current property line. Red is property with road frontage that I would receive in trade. Blue is what I would give him in return. It's the side of a hill, most of which he owns. We'd fix things so that we both own down to the creek. I've also plotted the minimum encompassed by the new impoundment. It would probably be wider than that; I'm being conservative. It's fed by a spring behind his house.

There is loggable timber in the blue area. We figure we'll use the proceeds from that to help fund the dam. He thinks the dam can be done for about $20K. I've offered to go in half up to $10K. I've offered the land trade before, without the idea of the lake entering into it.
The blue property is an area we've hardly ever gone to in the 19 years we've been there; it's hard to get to. I hiked it last about 5 years ago.


Plusses for me:

1) I get the road frontage directly across the road from my front porch. I'll control the view. I may let my sons build on it later so they have lake-front cabins.
2) I'll get better than 1/3 of the lake frontage at the widest part.
3) I'll be able to sit on my front porch and see a lake.
4) I'd also figured I'd build a pond once I retire there and I'd figured a budget of $10K to get it done. This gives me a much bigger lake than I'd planned for about the same budget.

Plusses for him:
1) He gets the rest of the hill he currently owns
2) He gets a lake directly behind the house-- maybe 8 feet deep.
3) It cleans up a boundary that his father disputed with me from the day we met. He claimed about 5 acres on the other side of the current boundary and removed the survey stakes that had been placed when we bought the place.

So, Mister Worst Case Scenario, wherever you are, tell me what can possibly go wrong.

That would piss me off no end and put the kibosh on all co-operation forever...I refuse to deal with thieves.

The DNR would never let it fly, in Minnesota.

Normally, I would agree.

Even when his Dad was alive, his son never held to the claim. In fact, he and I went out over a decade ago and I found a couple remaining stakes. He's in construction and brought out a theodolite and between us, we came within 20 yards of each other and decided that we were not going to argue over it. He told his father to STFU. The good news is the father never made a serious move on the property. He died of cancer in 2015, and his son has been doing his best to make up for it.

Part of the reason I'm doing this is to get the boundary to a mutually-beneficial line that offers something for both of us. The original line was completely arbitrary, set when my father and I bought the place. It's just where 200 acres came to. The first time I sat on the front porch, I realized the mistake. There is no zoning, so conceivably they could put up a trailer or a pig lot across the road from me, and I could do nothing. My neighbor gets more woods for deer hunting.

For reasons too complicated to go into, I'm already bound to do this through an attorney. We'll get clear title or it is nogo.

Can you be more specific on the reasons why?

Supposedly, my neighbor has gotten an okay from the state in a general way. He's promised to take me back over all he's done so far. The dam is going to be higher than normal. It will require a special permit.

Even if the lake falls through, I'd be inclined to go through with the property swap.

Wi DNR either......they'd be all over you like stink on schitt.......

Has to do with altering natural water flow in simple terms.

That lake might get bigger than you think during one of the frequent flash floods that pass through this part of the country.

My guess is, the first time you got a good gully washer the lake would start to flow around each side of the dam until it had eroded enough land away on each side of it that the dam would get washed away.

I agree. The ponds around us have serious spillways.

The good news on that front is that the gully that we're damming empties into a creek that flows through an uninhabited part of the county. If there were trouble, the most that might happen is a few cows might get swept away. This isn't going to be the Johnstown Flood.

Contact your county extension office. They can give you most of the info you need about the construction, and if it will be possible or even legal on that site.

Better do your research, find out all the costs on both ends and definitely lawyer up. Dealing with property disputes turn people crazy, even to the point of kin killing kin! Whatever you do, I'd tread lightly.

Good luck, but ime dealing with the king, the kings men decide what water can be damned up, well other than beavers, they don’t give a chit about the kings men.

My brother dammed a runoff on his property near Shelbyville to create a pond and the state didn't care. I think they may have even given him some fish.

What's your liability downstream if your dam fails?

Sounds like a win win situation. You get a lake you want and land you can use for land you have no use for. You also end a possible land dispute that could cost a fortune in legal fees. I’d do the land swap regardless of the lake. Usable land vs land you struggle to access and ending a possible legal fight. I’d also try to give him the Damn property also. Make the liability of the lake his problem and give the $10,000 as payment for the more valuable road front property not as a portion of the damn building cost and its liability. You won’t be completely off the liability hook because you will be signing off on the project but you would have some defense from ongoing maintenance liabilities.

Worst Case (in my opinion):

Some fool interloper trespasser decides to go fishing or swimming and hurts themselves.
Court decides the pond is an "attractive nuisance".
You are held liable.

Who pays for insurance and liability?

Hope it works out well for everyone.

Sounds like a fair trade on the surface but still I'd suggest taking as much time as needed to deeper investigate possible legal and personal unforeseen pitfalls before I formally committed to anything binding.

The lake sounds nice but could come with it's own future issues as well.

Nothing against your current neighbor but good neighbors today may not always be so good or maybe not your neighbor later on.

Have you had any sort of survey done to see where the waterline would be at different depths? It is pretty hard to estimate that sort of thing. How much water flows through the creek now and how much does it vary season to season? With flowing water you will have to have some sort of control structure that will handle the volume and also an emergency spillway to keep the dam from getting washed out in case of a deluge. I would think estimating that could get pretty complicated depending on the size of the watershed.

You should have some sort of agreement on sharing the maintenance and liability as well as usage or it could get ugly in the future.

It would be pretty cool to have a semi private bass lake! Go for it!


Jerry

In my experience, several .gov agencies like to get their fingers into something like this where you are messing with stream flow, even if it is on your own place. Better check into this in depth before moving any dirt.

I have what is called a blue line stream running through my farm. The water in it eventually ends up in the Cumberland River, then into the Ohio, into the Mississippi. , then of course into the Gulf of Mexico. Anyway, because it is considered a blue line stream, I was told that I could not do anything that would impede it's flow. It floods a portion of some of my fields in a period of heavy rain, and I was going to do some work on it to prevent that.

I'd check with the Natural Resources people at your local Farm Service Agency before I did anything to a running stream of water.