Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 500-yard shots at ELK.

LMAO, but I do find it interesting and have read all of it. To me, there is no "right" answer that fits everyone, but the opinions on both sides are good reading, and if they help us all to stop and think about ethics, why we hunt,etc., that's a good thing.

I reckin' anybody that can unload 4 or 5 rounds into a moving 9" circle of a moving target at 50 yards can go hunting with me anytime, provided they got their own saddlehorse, that is.

Thats a fairly easy task given some practice and allowed leads.

Sorry no saddle horse though.... Always wanted to buy them, but I figure taking 200 foot above sea level horses to 11K would be no better than dragging my @ss to that level. Plus the state line issues and feed issues. Up to my legs currently.

Jeff

I have come to the conclusion that a good shot can hit an elk everytime at 500 yards and therein lies the problem, he can hit him but he will sometimes leg the elk or gut shot the elk and thoes that say "no way" or full of it. Good shots wound and the bad shots just miss by a mile.

I used to take some long shots but as I have aged I quit doing that and closed the gap to 300 to 350 yards.

One thing I have noticed is that those long shot artist never remember the wounded animals, only the good shots, even the ones that forgot I was there!

About the only thing worse than shooting farther than you should at a wild animal is shooting an elk in a pen. Like on those hunts Ray Atkinson sells.. You do that and you're definately a [bleep].

Wow...amazing stuff being said here...

I am a long range hunter and I'd easily take the challenge of that test. 50 yards in the kill zone. 9" kill zone? unless that target is zipping buy...
An experienced hunting magazine writer? Common we all know a lot of them aren't the best shot in the world they just have the luxury of being able to write.

Atkinson,

I will bet the world more Elk are wounded in one year by SRH's taking shots at running game then all the LRH's put together total!

GH,

So because I shoot farther than you think I should I'm a [bleep]?

I'd like to see that said in person. Just the fact you even said it at all says volumes about you.

Some of the mindsets are simply amazing... pushing pseudo ethics of some very misconceived notions of what they have no concept of.

From my years in the field I've personally observed that you have people that are practiced and ready to go, and you have people who are not.

The practiced ones know their abilitities and their rigs and the conditions and are very good at their stuff. These fellas/ladies can and do kill at well at ranges well beyond 500 yds and with no muss and no fuss.

I do a lot of work in the 500 yd range and if the conditions are right for me then that shot is a chip shot for me. And I know many others that are way better at it than I am.

And this doesn't mean that I always take the shot, and or any other shot for that matter. A couple of years back I had a very nice muley buck at 178 yds in a hard running snowy day that I passed the shot on and tried to get a better one as I wasn't positive I could close the deal. I tried to get closer and a better shot under the conditions and I did not.

These fellas/ladies also know when not to drop the hammer.

Now the other group, is not practiced do not know and understand their abilities and will take shots at game that are just about unbelievable. Whether is at a piece of elk flesh in the timber, or at a range they do not know and without the benefit of a proper field position. Running shots they have no issue with blazing away at either.

I would each and every day take a bet with my money being on the practiced and disciplined shooter over the other group. The first group will kill and pretty much normally with one shot and that is it, game over.

The distance to the target does not make for a slop shooter, the thought process and how they go about business does.

Mark D

Is it back to the indian and not the arrow again? Funny how that comes up. And some are creme of the crop, some are also rans.....

I'm one that doesnt factor distance in as a parameter, its whether I can make the shot or not. Much like your 178 yard shot.

But others just cannot understand whats in plain simple typewritten english. They just have to get that knife blade in there because they think they are right, or because they are not practiced enough for whatever reason...

I can say right now that some folks definitely have talent naturally for a lot of things. But they are not at the top of the pack until they practice the way they should. Thats the difference among shooters also.

Mark-- excellenty posted.

Jeff

I too see distance as a non-issue or parameter of whether or not I take a shot. Rather it's factors such as wind, or is the animal PRESENTING a good shot opportunity.

The buffalo hunter of yore did a number on one ton animals with lead and blackpowder at some close and some very long ranges. Today we have better optics, range finding capability, and ex-bal PDA software to get us on the right track.

One of my personal hunting rifles hits harder and with a larger bullet at 1/4 mile than the 30-06 does at its muzzle. It is no big deal to take a guy out who doesn't shoot long range, and set him behind my setup and have him busting clay pigeons at 500-600 yards, once I enter variables and click the optics in. This puts smiles on peoples faces, and they begin to realize the signifigant capability of today long range rifle systems. Reality is though that my rifle is quite capable of endangering a clay pigion far past 600 yds.

With today's rifle systems a 500 yd shot is more like short-moderate range if the animal isn't running, or presents a clear shot. You just have to understand todays shooting systems and some ballistic concepts. Probably education more than equipment.

I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!

500 yards shots at Elk are irresponsible unless everything is perfect which it is not 99.9% of the time.

With respect to those that have and think they can time after time..What message are you sending to the new Elk hunters reading this forum?

Are we talking reality or thumping our chest?

Jayco

Well written Mark.

log cutter,

I am talking reality and I am as serious as a heart attack. I don't have to thump my chest. I have nothing to prove to anyone who doubts what I can or can't do. I know some very very ethical responsible hunters who hunt as hard as any number of "SRH's"

As a Guide and Outfitter I have a lot of clients who want to sling lead at distances they have no concept of, nor any business doing. I won't let them and neither will any of my guides.

The message to new Elk hunters reading this forum is just what they make of it. The responsible one know their limits. The responsible ones know how to apply what they've practiced and learned.

Always amazes me the images and misconception people have when you mention killing beyond 300 yards.

It also goes yo show just how ignorant many hunters are about the weapon, they swear, they know, like the back of their hand.

500 is more like a moderate shot-- thats why in target shooting its referred to as mid range. Long doesn't start till 800 and beyond.

Jayco-- am I thumping? Hell no. I'm just saying it can be done, but evidently most folks are not willing to want to know the effort can be made by those that want to.

And exactly where in this thread do we preach that its easy? Where is that? And don't those of us that are pro-- say its limited by conditions. IMHO my ethics in shooting at game are probably much higher than most hunters ethics.

I'm sorry if you fail to see that. I'm also sorry that its not evident that for some folks that kind of shot, given conditions, is just plain easy.

Of course I wont' change your mind, just like you wont' change my mind that the true slobs are what would be classed as short range shooters. IE 300 and under.

Reality says it can be done with lots of work. Reality says the ones that can do it have a high level of ethics.

Am I thumping my chest? Again no, but its like many things in life, you can only do it if you put your mind to it, and I was not reared as a quitter. Therefore my skill levels may be taken to a different level than most folks because of my desire to be the best at what I choose to do....

BTW I've never had a 500 yard shot at elk. Most every elk I've seen has been inside of 200 yards. Yet I'd bet that at least 60% of those chances, had the range been 500, the conditions were very readable and workable as to a shot. Of course when you've laid on the ranges I have, and watched wind for the thousands of hours I have, up to abotu 10-12 mph is a pretty easy stab.

Atkinson:
As to the wounding issue, give it a break folks. They wound as easy up close as they do far off. Remember I'm the one admitting the lost animal. But it was 60ish yards....hows that for memory? And as to the passing of shots... I've passed on quite a few shots, both short and midrange and passed on one long range shot to date. Even after the spotter round hit appx 2 inches low, the attitude of the game was not reliable for the shot.

Be careful of whom you accuse.


Jeff

Broke Back Mountain Outfitter's...

The message I am trying to send is to be responsible no matter what the range and or condition. To know your gun and to stay within your ability, period!

Why it is that distance gets people so tweaked I'll never know.

And yet, I find it interesting that the ones that have truly studied and trained at shooting at range don't have huge concerns about it one bit. Why is that, well I'll say it is because they have trained and they have earned the right to have the confidence.

IMO a lot of this long range gack is like the fella at the gym that gets all huffy when someone puts on 3 plates on a side for a bench press, and yet he himself hasn't done the training to do it for himself. But he looks down at the fella that has taken the time and has trained to do it. For one it is tough and in his mind is irresponsible and or show boating and or thumping his chest. To the trained it is not.

I've spoken with many that take issue with shooting elk at a distance, and yet they have no problem with the concept of what I would call a less than acceptable choice on a shot in the timber. They'll shoot at elk in the timber that is moving with absolutely no worry to it. And or the elk are moving in broken country and or what not.

I will bet on an experienced rifleperson taking out an elk at range (say 500) day in and day out more effectively than most at close range let alone on a moving elk in the timber will ever dream of doing.

And I do not in anyway concur with the thought process of "500 yard shots at Elk are irresponsible unless everything is perfect which is not 99.9% of the time".

I am trying to encourage people to know their gun and to be incrdibly intimate with it no matter what the range.

I am also trying to encourage people to know their abilities and to have the discipline to stay within it no matter what.

These are just some of the messages that I am trying to send out to the new and the old elk hunters. IME I've found the newby elk hunters to be way more responsible than the more experienced ones for the most part. Most of the ones that I know that are new are a bit timid if anything about what they're trying to do.

Sort of like car drivers isn't it. It aint the newbies I worry about when I am on the road. It is the ones with attitude that are full of themselves and think they everything there is to know about driving. Same with elk and elk hunters in my book.

I am not so foolish as to believe that if a person wants to make the choice to be irresponsible in his shot selections at long or short range then that is his/her way. Be it at close range and or at long that I am not gonna disuade him/her one bit by what I write on the net and or say in person.

Its the attitude of the person that is the issue here and not the topic.

A bit of humiltiy goes a long way in life my grandad always told me.

I am talking reality and not chest thumping.

Just my thoughts

Mark D

Who..Seems like I got some ego's.....

I will start by saying terrain plays a big roll in, if I can,should I?Of course the answer is experience in the field.

1-I could say I grew up with Military marksman and hunted with them strutting there ego's.Glad we had horses...But I won't...
2-I could say what happened as they say it ans what really happened was two different things..But I won't.
3-I could say I shot expert(265 out of 300 hits)(293) out of 265 guys open sighted in basic ant Fort Benning..But I won't.
4-I could say I don't start out my post by saying I am a Guide and no it all...Cuzz I ain't and don't but worked with one for many years.
5-I could say my first Elk hunt was in 1952 in the Selway in Idaho,but I won't.
6-I could start out my post like some, and say I kilt 4,569 Elk,but I won't.

All that is very tacky if you ask me.I have never loaded an Elk whole which says alot and never shot one I could get an ATV to and in most cases not even a horse....

Whip it on me...I am easily impressed and have no idea what is real 100% of the time versus once in a while with a big "Maybe" which I don't do but I do eat Elk most years.

WOW!!!!!!Why not 1,000 shots?

Jayco

What the hell was all that...

I belive he mentioned something about he got some ego's, that I would believe is true...

Mark D

I took an nice bull elk in N. Idaho at 974 yds. with a 250 gr bullet courtesy of my 30-378. One shot after ranging and dialing in scope for distance. Open clear cut of a bull just following cows which were stopping to graze/eat.

Bullet was a Sierra SMK and both lungs were penetrated and destroyed.

Skinned the elk and packed it out. There were two old broadheads in the neck with portions of carbon fiber shaft. They were grown/healed over with scar tissue. Weird looking.
Also when I butchered the hams, there were some 6mm dia slugs in them.

I don't know the circumstances of this poor placement which were obvious in this bull, but I know this. A poke in the heart or lungs with a cannon from afar is better hitting non-vital areas up close, as in archery range. He was packing multiple old healed up 6mm bullets and two broadheads. One match bullet from Sierra put him down because it was put in a vital location. Location , location , location. It's where you put it. Not how far you fling it.

It was nice recently to here John Barness talk about his friend and the Elk he killed with the likes of the 45-70 with cast bullets,what was he thinking, and the other calibers his friend used to harvest Elk and a few of them,it appears.

Mule Deer and many other writers have killed alot of game but what matters is the poor old boy back in Montana doing it for food.Brian Pierce has done the same.....

This is what an Elk hunting forum ought to be about,not chest humping and numbers,bogus or not....Experiences,not bench results..The ones when you are huffing and puffing and only have seconds to decide to shoot or not to.

I guess Idaho sucks because at a 40% grade up hill or down hill across a canyon at 500 yards,no one knows the winds where the javascript: void(0);
javascript: void(0); bullet is going,therefore,making it not an advice able shot..

The old timers and locals do it..Why can't we without the thunder mags?I will wager no one on this forum needs the "food" as much as I.

Jayco

I agree Jeff, there is much more to long range shooting than tossing a bullet downrange. In the 1960's I shot high power rifle matches, I shot in the Northwest Regionals at Fort Lewis in 1966. So I shot 500 and 600. Luckily at Fort Lewis it was grey overcast and no wind so a guy can do pretty good at that range. Our range went to 500 yds and we had shifting winds and when the wind slacked then came the mirage. It would throw you two feet left or right depending on the wind direction, when it stopped the mirage would put you up two feet. A good scope can
help you read these things but you still have to know what your doing to make the effective shot. I shot a friends 300 Win Mag with scope for fun one day. I fired the first round and he told me to shoot at the marker which was about six inches. I only fired 9 rounds but I learned to watch what was happening in the scope. My brother-in-law told me he shot a Whitetail at 500 yds. twice and the shots were 2 inches apart. I told him he was a much better shot than me and that I would never attempt that shot. He said, well I'm not lieing I don't aim, I just shoot. Like I said, your a much better shot than me. I have heard about those 500 yd shots all my life but I want to see it measured. The longest shot I have ever made was on a Blacktail, I was using an 06 with 150 Grain Spitzers. The buck jumped out from underneath me, with no chance for a snap shot. I was above a road so I watched the road and there he went. I can still see the crosshair when I touched it off. The first shot I was holding on the end of his nose and broke a back leg. He bailed over the side of the road heading toward the river. The second shotI was holding at about 4 inches above the top of his horns and hit him in the horn about 4 inches above the head. That knocked him down, the third shot I was holding at the top of the horns and broke his neck just under the ear. I have no idea how far he was but that was my all time favorite shot. I'm not saying that a 500 yd shot can't be made because there are a lot of good shooters out there but I do hope they practice a lot and are confident in making the shot. But like I said, I wouldn't try it for fear of wounding the animal.