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One caveat would be shooting a SFP scope at max power in low light. Gonna be really hard to see much of anything at 15x with a tiny exit pupil in really low light.
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One caveat would be shooting a SFP scope at max power in low light. Gonna be really hard to see much of anything at 15x with a tiny exit pupil in really low light. exit pupil is the same FFP Or SFP and is a function of the scopes power setting and its objective size. but either way your going to see less scope brightness as the scope goes beyond about a 4:1 ratio. if its a 40mm scope that is going to be 10x+, if its 50mm its going to be 12x+ that is probably why you see a darker image on 15x
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One caveat would be shooting a SFP scope at max power in low light. Gonna be really hard to see much of anything at 15x with a tiny exit pupil in really low light. exit pupil is the same FFP Or SFP and is a function of the scopes power setting and its objective size. but either way your going to see less scope brightness as the scope goes beyond about a 4:1 ratio. if its a 40mm scope that is going to be 10x+, if its 50mm its going to be 12x+ that is probably why you see a darker image on 15x My point exactly - if you have SFP scope, you may need to turn it down from max power at last light, making your reticle incorrect and then you'd have to do the math on your subtensions.
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One caveat would be shooting a SFP scope at max power in low light. Gonna be really hard to see much of anything at 15x with a tiny exit pupil in really low light. exit pupil is the same FFP Or SFP and is a function of the scopes power setting and its objective size. but either way your going to see less scope brightness as the scope goes beyond about a 4:1 ratio. if its a 40mm scope that is going to be 10x+, if its 50mm its going to be 12x+ that is probably why you see a darker image on 15x My point exactly - if you have SFP scope, you may need to turn it down from max power at last light, making your reticle incorrect and then you'd have to do the math on your subtensions. . That is a great point I do not generally find myself making those long shots at last light though. It’s all a trade off. I love cussing and discussing optics
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At last light windage subtensions won't be visible in a fine reticle unless it's illuminated.
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One caveat would be shooting a SFP scope at max power in low light. Gonna be really hard to see much of anything at 15x with a tiny exit pupil in really low light. exit pupil is the same FFP Or SFP and is a function of the scopes power setting and its objective size. but either way your going to see less scope brightness as the scope goes beyond about a 4:1 ratio. if its a 40mm scope that is going to be 10x+, if its 50mm its going to be 12x+ that is probably why you see a darker image on 15x My point exactly - if you have SFP scope, you may need to turn it down from max power at last light, making your reticle incorrect and then you'd have to do the math on your subtensions. . That is a great point I do not generally find myself making those long shots at last light though. It’s all a trade off. I love cussing and discussing optics I can say after some experience last week with the 3-15 at last light on the range I would not want to be shooting it at an animal at last light at 15x, but I don't have an issue shooting 300-400 at 9x or so in low light. IF I wanted to use the reticle, I'd be up sh*t creek trying to make a split second decision if I had a 3-15 SFP in that situation. Even if I memorized what the reticle subtended at 9x, I'd have to make sure I was EXACTLY on that, and have verified that prior on the range.
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Just dial with a reliable 2nd focal and be done with it. If I have time to range the animal, I have an extra 3 seconds to dial my dope. Hold over rets are for playing games, not shooting them.
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However, this being a public forum, a healthy discussion of different preferences does not hurt.
ILya
agreed, the problem we see here is group and pack mentality. Its like global warming. everyone agrees so it must be correct. I personally feel the industry is too fixated and that most shooters would be generally best served with optics that have less power than the ones currently being pushed. For a hunting scope I see no need for a scope to be greater than 15-16x on the high end. I can shoot half MOA with a 3.5-15x nightforce @1000 yards. If I was always shooting that far might I pick a scope with more power, probably. but 1000 yards is really too far for anyone to be regularly shooting at big game animals, and 15x on the high end still gets the job done. When I shoot at an animal and the shot requires hold over or holding off or anything more than point and shoot. I am not rushing a shot of this nature. If you use a scope of 15x or less there is no reason not to just crank the scope to max. So what changed in the optics business? why were all the older scopes SFP? because they were generally less power and were designed for hunting. FFP has been popularized by tactical shooting and PRS style shooting. which is a totally different shooting dynamic. Maybe a quick shot at 400+ yards at something moving is desired. In which case there is a good reason to not be on max power to make that shot. Since the optic maxs at 25x on the high end, its desired to not be on max power because of mirage OR because more FOV is desired. Again all benefits of FFP. both scope designs have a trade off. No one seems to care to acknowledge this around here. its like FFP or nothing. You yourself said the markings on FFP aren't useable on the lowest powers. they are only use able at mid to high power. That is still a trade off and most definitely not usable at any power like so many people claim. For a hunting scope, you need ONE thing most importantly, you need to be able to actually see the reticle on the lowest power and in the lowest light because that is when animals are most likely seen. early in the morning or late in the evening. Low light performance is a huge deal. illuminate the reticle some would say. Ok what if the scope got left on and the battery is out? what if the battery isn't working and is dead because you forgot to replace it? The illumination argument is monkeying around too much and its not ideal anyways in low light. lastly, koshkin, what scopes do you feel offer FFP AND acceptable reticle visibility on the very lowest power without illumination? the 3x9 SWFA scope isn't bad, what others? Yup, kind of like the "round earth'ers". Just a bunch of group think and pack mentality. If you happened to believe that the Earth is flat, you get slammed with people saying you're wrong...Or just maybe, most people on here individually disagree with you about this, and it has nothing to do with group think or pack mentality. The hashmark subtensions on an FFP scope are consistent at any magnification, that doesn't mean that they're usable or visible. Being visible/usable at mid to high-magnification is advantageous because you don't HAVE to crank the scope for the subtensions to be correct. Or if you forget to crank up the mag and shoot on mid power, the subtensions are GTG. The benefit to SFP is if you require an ultra-fine subtension when dialing magnification to the upper range, and are shooting at static distances.
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what scopes do you feel offer FFP AND acceptable reticle visibility on the very lowest power without illumination? the 3x9 SWFA scope isn't bad, what others?
Bushy LRHS with circle of death I think the SWFA 3x9 is better on lowest power in low light than the LRHS 3-12 Have you used both in low light to compare them? I have, and the coarse details are plenty visible on minimum magnification. The fine details (hashmarks) not so much, but they are not really needed on minimum mag in low light...
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Just dial with a reliable 2nd focal and be done with it. If I have time to range the animal, I have an extra 3 seconds to dial my dope. Hold over rets are for playing games, not shooting them. Wind and spotting shots are best done with the reticle...
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I have a SWFA 3-9 HD on a T3X Superlite 6.5 Creed. I bought the rifle for the grandkids to use on every thing in Alaska except or coastal grizzlies and they will be with me or their Dad when hunting. I also want my grandkids to learn the mil system with me. I had a SWFA 3-15 FFP that I was going to put on my AR10 in 6.5 Creed, but ended up selling them both due to size and weight. The 3-9 is ok on the Superlite and should allow 500 yard hits at the range and help the gun to be a good 300 yard performer.
I put a 28 ounce Bushnell 4.5-18 LRHSi on a 24" Tikka CTR 6.5 Creed. It is a range gun and I will not be carrying it around Alaska. It's a heavy set up and I try to keep the combined weight of hunting rifles under 8 pounds.
We are first and foremost moose and caribou hunters and occasionally a bear. My .338 Winny wears a 3-10 SHVi with the Forceplex reticle and it is a good scope for hunting Alaskan critters. One of the reasons so many Alaskan hunters I know use Leupold's is because walking in Alaska with a heavy pack can be tough so they try to cut rifle weight and Leupold's are light weight scopes with great eye relief. None of the guys I know are twisting turrets when hunting, that includes the sheep and caribou hunters. But, if one watches TV every one twists turrets.
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So, it seems like the easy answer is still the 3-9HD here. Usable on 3x with no problem in low light, and holdoff-usable at mid to high powers in any light.
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Just dial with a reliable 2nd focal and be done with it. If I have time to range the animal, I have an extra 3 seconds to dial my dope. Hold over rets are for playing games, not shooting them. Wind and spotting shots are best done with the reticle... 3 posts in a a row and I can't find anything to disagree with. if I have some money on black friday I will pony up on a 3x9 and see how I like it, one point you kinda touch on is the fine sub tensions. being a MOA guy, I think MOA is a tuffer sell in FFP, I think the mil spacing generally works better for FFP. if you want to have a MOA reticle in FFP you really need to go 2 MOA spacing which IMO isn't ideal.
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I really like my 3-9 SS's. I have a ffp 3-15 and just don't like it as well. The 3-9 glass is better. Unless you need 15 power go 3-9.
Bb
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I have a few of the 3-15 and 3-9. I like both a lot especially for $450-$500 Black Friday pricing. Can’t really go wrong with either honestly.
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Wasn't there a guy that bought a SWFA 3-9 Mil Quad and didn't like it?
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