Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Calvinist?

I knew I shouldn't be casting pearls here.

Yes and I believe all things are preordained by a sovereign God.

When you read Romans 8:28, you need to read 8:29 with it. That will give you your answer about pre-destination.

We are commanded to sow the seed (Matthew 28:16-20). It's up to God if that seed falls on good ground or not.(Matthew 13:1:23)



That's funny, right there!

The Son was pre-destined to be the sacrificial lamb, Judas to betray , Peter to deny thrice.

lest you believe it was all by happenstance.




irrelevant to him?...God has a purpose for time and anything he has made He saw that it was good.


is God entirely beyond time, or is it that he extends beyond our limted time of existence and has time/duration perspective way beyond mans?

'from of old' refers to a particular point or period in time?

Psalm 93:2
"Your throne is established from of old you are from everlasting"

2 Peter 3:8
"But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Genesis has God making a variety of things, but no mention of Him making time.

Because creation means going from non-existence to existence, then we have a before and after through a sequence of events.
...A before and after sequence requires time... Time therefore could be said to be a precondition of creating.

The best way to belong to any denomination is to only read the parts of the Bible they want you to. Reading any other parts will just cause you to ask questions.

Discussion of free will is interesting. It seems that the idea is one of free moral agency. Since men are men and God is God we are talking about a pretty high bar when it comes to free moral agency. The nice thing is that we can test our free moral agency. Christ taught that we commit adultry in our heart when we look at a woman and lust. We murder someone when we hate them. His teaching doesn’t seem to indicate an ongoing lust or hate but a single action. That’s the high bar.

To test out free moral agency we can take the two examples that Christ gave and see how far we can make it through the day before we screw up. To test out ability not to contemplate hatred toward someone we can observer ourselves in traffic, while watching the evening news or while reading the fire. To test our ability not to lust we could peruse the pages of the 223 a i thread in the miscellaneous forum. The guy that doesn’t hate and the guy that doesn’t lust is truly a free moral agent.

I’ve already failed one of those today in confirming that the 223 a i thread was the proper thread to reference.

I would venture that Hananiah and Pelatiah would disagree with you!

You just ripped to shreds a straw man of Calvinism very nicely; the issue is much more complicated than determinism vs free will. I as a Calvinist recognize God’s sovereignty in election and man’s free will.

Calvin would agree with your last line completely.

Very well said sir; you make the point beautifully.

I am not a five point Calvinist but believe most of his theology. I didn't come to this believe through study, but through my own experience and experiences I've witnessed. Take the Campfire for example. You will not change the minds of one person in this thread. It won't happen, ever. You're wasting your time. Obviously they have "free will" to change their mind, but it won't happen. There is only one way a person's mind gets changed. Those who he foreknew he also predestined to be confirmed to the image of his Son in order that he might be the first born among many brothers. Those whom he predestined he also called, those whom he call called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Luther and Calvin rely on Paul and disregard Jesus whom Paul contradicts. Jesus in Revelations commended the church at Ephesus in Asia for giving Paul the boot. Paul verified his situation in Asia in 2nd Timothy. Jesus' brother James wrote his contribution to the bible in opposition to Paul. While I believe salvation is gained by the grace of a merciful creator I'm going to accept Jesus and John the Baptist who preached salvation through repentance. And John told some outwardly religious leaders who came to him "bear fruits that befit repentance". Those fruits are works and deeds, not just professed faith.

Lust test?
Where can I find this, again?

Good stuff. People try and make this God thing really hard.
It's not.
You will probably receive a pm from a concerned member though....
if you haven't already.
It's kinda fun, though.


Good day, fellers.

I feel blessed that I dont have a clue what is being argued here.

Truly blessed.

This has been interesting to say the least. I commend all for staying on the high road as we should.
I am a simple man. and some of the discussion is over my head, but that's good, how else can a person learn.

Not to claim to be any kind of authority on the topic, I'll just put out the notion that being predestined, and still a free agent can coexist. Perhaps it is a matter of passing a test of sorts? Test may not be quite right, maybe trial is better?

Thanks good folks.

Well done Clint. God isn't going to force anyone to love, accept, or follow Him.

That is for every person who believes, but certainly does not speak to infallibility. There is only One infallible, and His name is Jesus.

Check out the 5 Calvinistic points, TULIP, on line.

I don't think many Presbyterians or Calvinists are full bore 5 point TULIP advocates. To me some of that theology is a cop out. Just because the Lord may know our ultimate decision, it doesn't take away from the fact we had the freedom and option to decide. It's hard to wrap ones head around infinity and omnipotence.

Arminianism is the antithesis of Calvinism. Check that one out, too.

The P in TULIP is preservation of the saints, or once saved, always saved, a popular Baptist position. The Arminian position is one can be saved and fall from grace, Methodists, etc.

DF

Some do. And they will spend eternity vehemently regretting it.