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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,704 Likes: 17
Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,704 Likes: 17 |
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,150 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,150 Likes: 11 |
Bells, whistles, knobs, short barrels and widgets. They should'a stopped with the CAR15 and M16A1.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,211 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,211 Likes: 2 |
Bells, whistles, knobs, short barrels and widgets. They should'a stopped with the CAR15 and M16A1. I have built and M16A1 (or as close as we can get) and an "almost" CAR15. That leaves 8 more in various forms. I don't have a free floated barrel yet but that is coming. They are as much fun to build as they are to shoot. kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,621 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,621 Likes: 1 |
Eh, today’s M4A1s and the civilian counterparts are such better rifles than the A1s I dealt with, that it’s not even funny. The platform has gotten nothing but better and more versatile. Yes, many want to hang too much crap off a rifle, but if they really need it, they can hang exactly what they need on there without any fuss, too. More accurate/durable barrels, free floats, adjustable stocks without AK-sized butts, .....what’s not to like?
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,244 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,244 Likes: 10 |
Bells, whistles, knobs, short barrels and widgets. They should'a stopped with the CAR15 and M16A1. If I could only own one it would be the CAR 15
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,150 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,150 Likes: 11 |
Used both in combat, little point in fixing stuff that's not broke.
2.5 years w/o a malfunction. Shot something in the range of 35-40k rounds during the first tour, and cleaned the A1 day before I turned it in. About 8" of rifling fwd of the chamber was gone. Dunno how to fix that other than changing the barrel. Fella gets to shoot that much by not using anything other than Auto on the fire select lever, doing recon by fire in Aero Scout ops and never taking his finger off the trigger until the mag was empty.
All at taxpayer expense of course.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,500
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,500 |
All our colt made M4 were turned in and our maneuver bn’s, cav sqdn and artillery bn all got brand new FN made M4.. I’m sure the bsb and beb got new m4 too.
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2 |
Used both in combat, little point in fixing stuff that's not broke. We don’t waste millions of rounds of ammo blasting in full-auto anymore. The modern optimized M4 platform with accessories is lightyears more capable than a CAR15.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,621 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,621 Likes: 1 |
^^^^Yeah.....on both counts. The FNs are mo betta than the Colts we have/had.....and they’re far more suitable for hard use, versatility, and reliability than the older, A1s.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169 |
How can they be mo betta when both are built to the same TDP?
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,621 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,621 Likes: 1 |
Cuz the Colts were (apparently) built on older tooling (or?)with occasional tolerance stacking issues (all sorts of theories/debates).....some of which has cost them $ in the past, replacing masses of weapons parts. I was privy to replacements for the end users, not the $/politics/contracts. The FNs have been more accurate and less trouble prone (no mass issues I’m aware of), but that just my observations......between the two, over 10 years at SOF or line infantry units, with several years being responsible for nearly 1k M4 and M4A1s. Colt has supposedly upgraded their machinery and tooling of late, but there’s more than likely dozens of MFGs that build parts and rifles at least as good as Colt, IME. The FNs are predominant among our teams, AFAIK, for a while. They probably have their reasons, and they get to pick these days. I don’t and don’t care what it is, really. IMO, maybe Colt just rested on their name too long, while others were innovating/working to improve/modernize the platform? Not trying to say Colt’s M4s are ‘bad’ now, or that the earlier issues weren’t great, either. Just saying they’re not the top of the heap in my mind for a while.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886 |
A-2 defeated the purpose of M-16 - too long and heavy for 5.56x45.
Last edited by night_owl; 10/13/19.
abusus non tollit usum
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,150 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,150 Likes: 11 |
Pound lighter and MV 400 fps faster for the -16A1....who won that race?
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886 |
abusus non tollit usum
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,920 |
XM-177
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169 |
I see the new Colt SOCOM barrel touted as one of the most accurate barrels ever built for a service carbine but FN has a cold hammer forged barrel machine as does Colt Canada/Diemaco. I can see them being more accurate in a gov't profile.
I haven't seen near the Colt guns nor parts that some have but I've seen no issues and trust them. I don't see it as Colt resting on its name as much as they got beat out by a cheaper bid. Honestly with the business trouble Colt has had in the last 20 years, I'm not surprised they lost to FN. But my limited experience with Colt has been good.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,211 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,211 Likes: 2 |
A-2 defeated the purpose of M-16 - too long and heavy for 5.56x45. I don't predict any military would go with this suggestion but the 16" mid length has such nice balance over the A1 or A2. Yes, there is some velocity loss with the 16" barrel but it's so nice to pack around. The A1 was never a problem looking for a solution other than the twist needed to be upgraded. I still believe the 1/7 twist was over kill. The 1/8 would have been the right twist with the A1 barrel. kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,143 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,143 Likes: 4 |
It seems they could of put better sights or made the A1 a flattop.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,150 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,150 Likes: 11 |
I've puzzled about the faster twist/heavier bullet metrics used in the M4, mostly questioning the need. The A1 delivered nasty wounds and during my tours I never saw man or beast survive being shot with it, but readily admit they all required at least one shot. M onkies to ele and everything in between. I did transport a NVA to the hospital one day who had been seriously gnawed on by a minigun . 15 hits give or take, he was alive when we left .
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,143 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,143 Likes: 4 |
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