Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters How are bolt action 308 and 30-06 sales holding up...

Elephants aren’t moose, and it’s been an ice age since anything elephant like was hunted in Scandinavia.

Too many to recall.

A couple years back, my BIL called and asked about which chambering to get his adult son (who had never shot a centerfire rifle) for a Christmas present. The salesman at Bass Pro had recommended 30-06. The intended use was deer here in Missouri. Without hesitation I recommended 7-08. My wife and I have been hunting deer in central MO for almost 20 years now, and other than a couple of exceptions, all of our deer have been taken with 7-08, 7-08ai, 308 win, or 243 win. I'm the one shooting 243 now, just because I like it and it works. Hope still shoots a 7-08 because she has used that round to take a couple of nice elk at ranges of 300 to 400 yards, and she just has confidence in the round. 30-06 works fine, for sure, but it is overkill. I can't think of a scenario, where a 30-06 would be needed over a 7-08 on deer (or elk for that matter). If you want more recoil, more muzzle blast and more weight - power to you, but a 7-08 or 6.5 Creed is more than enough for 99% of hunters in 99% of the hunting scenarios they will face.

Let me say right off that, unfortunately, I have never had the opportunity, yet, to shoot an elk nor a moose. However, I have killed numerous deer and hogs with both a .30-06 and a 7MM-08. I agree that a 7MM-08 is plenty of gun for deer. Having said that, I would be a bit reluctant to hunt elk with a 7MM-08, but would do it if there was no other practical choice. A .30-06 would work OK for elk or moose, but what I really want for them would be a .375, especially if there are bears around. Which there usually are in those habitats. Yeah, I know some people kill 'em with a stick and a string, but I believe in using enough gun. If you use a minimum size cartridge you have no room for error and the animal suffers. I try to make good shots, but I am not always perfect and things do happen sometimes. JMHO, YMMV, but again, like I first stated, I have never shot an elk, bear, nor a moose. Take care and aim well.

Interesting to read how many on this thread think a .30-06 is necessary for killing black bear, elk or moose--and in particularly justify using a .30-06 (or .308) because of black bear in the Northeast.

That pretty much used to be the attitude here in Montana for elk hunting, but the big reason was cup-and-core bullets, because a typical 180-grain C&C from the .30-06 would hold together and penetrate better on elk. But that changed with so many new bullets appearing over the decades--along with more elk, which meant they could be found more often in open country, rather than thick timber, where they could be shot more precisely at better angles. I don't run into to nearly many of the "at LEAST a .30-06 with 180's" guys much anymore, and even my friends who used to use the .338 a lot have generally gone to smaller-caliber cartridges--a few even to the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Obviously they're incredibly misguided, but one of my New York friends who hunts the Adirondacks a lot killed his most recent black bear (a good-sized boar) with one shot a real oddball round, which might be called the .25 Creedmoor, since its on basically the same basic case but without the body being blown out so much. If I recall correctly he calls it the .250 Savage, and the bullet he used was some new-fangled model called a Partition, made by a little company out in Oregon.

Well since I don't hunt Cape Buffalo I'll have to sell my 30-06's now that I know they're no longer needed for anything around here. I'll have to replace them with whatever the latest 6.5 Metrosexual cartridge is.

Only a kghunt like you thinks we're talking about Scandinavia.

Moosemike, How many new rifles have you bought since January 1st and what are they?

So the gist of this thread is if you hunt North America, s h i tcan everything larger than a 6.5mm?

This thread is pretty typical of the fire... every one has an opinion, but it’s clear not all opinions are created equal. Some are based on conjecture and Outdoor Life, some are based in experience.

It’s pretty easy to see who’s formed theirs how...

On most threads like these I find rationalizing (or irrationalizing ) of personal prejudices (from both sides of the discussion) and not really on target statements being substituted for real logic.

It makes perfect sense for a new and successful caliber like the 6.5 creed will have an effect on sales of the 06 and 308. It seems it would be easy for the gun business to publish the stats. They use to in the past for both guns and ammunition. Once thing's for sure, it sure has garnered the attention on this forum and media. I still have no need/want for it.

moosemike,

"Well since I don't hunt Cape Buffalo I'll have to sell my 30-06's now that I know they're no longer needed for anything around here. I'll have to replace them with whatever the latest 6.5 Metrosexual cartridge is."

Don't know what you're so upset about--but then I'm generally puzzled by Campfire members who don't get that the choice of hunting cartridges can actually be discussed without any personal implications.

My wife and I own two rifles in .30-06, one of which I've used on more big game animals than any other in my collection since the rifle was acquired in 1996. (In fact may have used it on more big game than any other single rifle I've owned.) Eileen has also used it on at least half a dozen species of big game weighing from around 150 to 700 pounds. It's probably the last big game rifle I'd sell, just because of its history.

We also own four .308's, one of which Eileen used to kill her last elk--which went down promptly at 250 yards from a 130-grain bullet at .300 Savage velocities. (She took her previous elk with a .257 Roberts, which down even quicker.)

Right now I have taken big game animals with 43 different cartridges, ranging from .22 centerfires to the .416 Rigby, including both 20 and 12-gauge slug guns. Have been right next to shooters using another 16 rounds, a couple larger than the .416 Rigby. One of the main things I've noticed over the decades that occurred is that there isn't a hell of a lot of difference in "killing power" between most big game rounds. Instead the major differences are where the bullet lands, and whether it penetrates sufficiently for the game in question. This would astonish many Campfire members who are convinced that X or Y cartridge somehow magic, but there it is.

A good example might be the blue wildebeest of Africa. A big bull weighs around 700 pounds, and is considered one of the hardest to kill of the larger African plains game. Yet I have seen them killed promptly with one chest shot from "deer" cartridges such as the .243 Winchester to 7x57 Mauser, yet go a mile or more (and sometimes lost) with more than one .375-caliber magnum. The bullets used were all "premiums" of one kind or another, and it didn't even seem to make much difference which premium was used, despite how many hunters firmly believe that specific bullets are just as magic as specific cartridges. The wildebeest that went down and stayed down promptly were hit in the right place, with a bullet that did its job.

Plus, I went back and reread this thread, and nowhere did I find a suggestion that you sell or trade off your .30-06's.

I bought 2 .30-06's this year, and no Creedmores. No intention of buying a 6.5 either, but Sportsman's Warehouse in Logan, Utah had one of those Kimber Classic's in 6.5 for $999 with really nice wood. I nearly had a weak moment.



A few weeks ago dad was on a 'mining' trip for lead at the range he is a member of. Trash can diving he found a box of 6.5 Creedmore empty brass. Brought it home in case one of us happens to buy one in the future. Threw me a case along with one from that oddball round you mention .250 Savage (some of the real snobs call it a .250-3000 even) for comparison, "check out what 100 years of advancement gets you" was the sentiment of the conversation.

Cheesy,

Yep, that was one of the first things I noticed about the "completely new cartridge design" 6.5 Creedmoor when I first saw one of the cases nine years ago! It's basically the 6.5/250 Savage Improved, and very close to the RCBS version, which had a 28-degree shoulder.

In fact, in the article I wrote about the 6.5 CM back then, I described how to easily fire-form cases from .22-250 brass using the Cream of Wheat bullet-less method, because Creedmoor brass wasn't very common back then.

I think this simple yet concise statement by Mule Deer nails it. With todays modern bullets, I'd not argue cartridges with anyone, they all work fine if you're capable of putting it in the right place. I would even extend it a little further, rifle bullet, shotgun slug, any muzzleloader bullet be it round ball or other, arrow or crossbow bolt, I've found if you hit a deer right behind the shoulder and take out both lungs, they generally run 35-40 yards and drop, no matter what you hit them with. This is just based on my limited experience, mileage may vary for others. In the thick northeast, if you are quiet, you can literally hear them drop.

I'm not interested in a 6.5 Creedmoor, but again, I'm not a fan of bolt actions. Most of the deer I've shot with a rifle have been with a 760 pump carbine in 30-06. But if Remington came out with a 7600 they are currently manufacturing in 6.5 Creedmoor I'd likely buy one, put a 1.5X4.5 variable on it and go try kill a deer with it. I'm sure it would work just fine.

Yes, it would work just fine. Mine killed the two deer I shot with it last season just as quick and just as dead as the two I shot with my .30-06 the year before. I just don't understand why so many of the old codgers on here seem to feel or maybe fear the 6.5 Creedmoor is going to bury their traditional old standby's. I dearly love my .30-30's and .243's for deer hunting and have killed piles with both over the years. The 6.5 isn't going to make them obsolete or take their place but it is a nice addition.

yes the Creedmoors all of the different calibers are just fine for many to use ,i own a couple to play with too. but for me with my old Ruger #1 in a 257 Weatherby Mag. that`s the rifle i prefer and maybe some of the other older dudes feel the same way with their rifle and the cartridge they have killed plenty animals with too. > at my age of 66 years of age i see no reason for me to ever use any other type rifle or cartridge to kill a nice whitetail buck with and other old deer hunters i bet feel the same way with their old deer slayer rifle too.

From what I've seen here in Nebraska, people are mostly buying 243s, 270s, 30-30s, 308s, and 30-06s with which to shoot deer, just like they have been for years.

I have 11 deer tags and am planning to attempt to punch them with a 22-250, a 243, a 257, a couple of 260s, a couple of 6.5 Creedmoors, a 30-30, and a 338 Federal.

Nunya…..