|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,687
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,687 |
I think their stuff is junk. And worse yet resale is terrible because they phase out models and blow them out for cheap ruining resale I hate to keep white-knighting Vortex, but I have to assume you're only experience with them involves their Chinese/lower level scopes. Resale on the majority of the Philippines and Japanese manufactured scopes is very good...I know this because I have sold more than a few. As far as phasing out models, every manufacture does this....and prices go down. Its the very reason a Vari-X III is cheaper than a VX3, a Monarch UCC is cheaper than a Monarch 5 (even though I prefer the older UCC scopes), so on and so forth.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,687
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,687 |
Ive owned both Razor binos and a razor hd scope I have zero experience with their binoculars, but I would certainly be upset that the replacement was a Chinese product. As far as the Razor scopes, you are probably the only person I have ever read about who considered their quality subpar. Was it one of their HD hunting scopes or tactical model?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 628
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 628 |
[quote=16bore
No boner, if you’re wondering. [/quote]
Thank you for clarifying, I couldn’t have slept tonight wondering about that.
On that note, Swarovski, Zeiss, and Nightforce all give me a boner, don’t even mention S&B or Kahles... Tangent Theda, forget about it!!!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,653
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,653 |
Ive owned both Razor binos and a razor hd scope I have zero experience with their binoculars, but I would certainly be upset that the replacement was a Chinese product. As far as the Razor scopes, you are probably the only person I have ever read about who considered their quality subpar. Was it one of their HD hunting scopes or tactical model? I updated the original post...it was a 1-4. The scope wasn't that bad...but for the money I could have done much better had i paid full retail. The binos were no dice...way over priced and they didn't hold up. I sold the replacements on eBay IIRC. I see enough of their stuff on the line though to know its not my jam.
GOD Bless America
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,606
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,606 |
Ive owned both Razor binos and a razor hd scope I have zero experience with their binoculars, but I would certainly be upset that the replacement was a Chinese product. As far as the Razor scopes, you are probably the only person I have ever read about who considered their quality subpar. Was it one of their HD hunting scopes or tactical model? I updated the original post...it was a 1-4. The scope wasn't that bad...but for the money I could have done much better had i paid full retail. The binos were no dice...way over priced and they didn't hold up. I sold the replacements on eBay IIRC. I see enough of their stuff on the line though to know its not my jam. Now you sound like a Know nothing guy working an optics counter trying to sell me something i'm not lookng for. You expressed yourself you don't have to sell me.
Never take life to seriously, after all ,no one gets out of it alive.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,687
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,687 |
I updated the original post...it was a 1-4. I can see where a 1-4x would be underwhelming, especially at Razor prices. In fact, I *personally* can't appreciate the benefits of the extra price on a low powered scope where its really difficult to see the benefits optically. 10+ power scopes? Absolutely.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,598 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,598 Likes: 1 |
I suspect most of the success with Vortex on the retail side is the payments they make for product placement. A couple of observations, is that at the Cabela's store in EGF, Vortex has paid for top shelf placement in the optics case. That takes cash to the optics mgr. in each store, or chain.
In Scheel's stores, it seems each store operates more independently. For example, in Fargo, they do sell lots of Swarovski which is fine, but they have placed Vortex in the same showcase, as that means equality, and what a heresy. I found no Zeiss, or Nikon Monarch HD binoculars for sale, that is unfortunate as they are better choices, in the midrange. This is too bad, as Fargo is supposed to be the showcase lead store. I am disappointed, as this store should include all top optics mfrs. they offer and educate their sales force on their optics. I suppose they allow Vortex to come in with commission cash to the lackeys, for a sale. Scheel's is better than that.
If the Scheels stores had much optics knowledge, they would have more Zeiss, Nikon and Leica and Meopta in the showcases. Bismarck does have Zeiss in the case, and as many should know the Conquest HD is better than any Vortex.
It seems it is pay to play, just like in a grocery store, the companies pay for product placement. I suppose if Vortex is making their binoculars cheap in China, they have more room with their cheaper labor and cost cutting model. There are also (or at least there used to be) spiff/free product programs from Burris, Nikon, Pentax and Swarovski. Swaro even did an African hunt as a prize one year.
Last edited by horse1; 10/28/19.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,661 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,661 Likes: 2 |
Might want to read a bit more before posting that. They have a facility in Wisconsin that makes some optics. 95% of anything Vortex is Chinese. Always something at least as good or better for the same or less money. Uncle Rico... When are you going to stop pulling numbers out of your ass and trying to pass them off as meaningful? Let's say you were close to half-right (you are not close) that would mean over $30,000,000 in sales. What is Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Docktor, Nikon, or any other company doing in annual builds outside China? Outside Asia? In the US? Go ahead, make another guess. I am sure it will be closer than your last guess.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,661 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,661 Likes: 2 |
Might want to read a bit more before posting that. They have a facility in Wisconsin that makes some optics. Assembly of a few scopes. Wowsa… No, making the entire scopes on site in WI. Only the reticles come from outside the US...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,788 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,788 Likes: 1 |
Most people want the best binoculars that they can afford and a pair of Chinese made Diamondbacks 10X42 EDs with a free chest harness and glasspack bino case that has been checked by the qc staff in Wisconsin offers a pretty good solution. They would work for most people and are backed up by a super good warranty. However, there are better products. Zeiss presently has the best incentive program. However, Swaro and Leica also have good programs. Leupold and Nikon have programs that are harder to work with but they have good products. I can tell you that a lady named Doreen Fobes in Wisconsin makes the sales people happy wherever they be. There is a bigger problem that is confronting consumers and sales people. Online distribution centers offer higher quality products like Leica Noctavids or Zeiss Harpia Spotting scopes and they never get sent out to the hamlets. We only have a steady supply of vortex and we don't have the ELs, SFs or the HTs that consumers might buy if they had the opportunity to see them. So I don't have the STS 65 that I might be able to sell because we are prompted to bring the customer to the ordering kiosk and order from the online distribution center- the store gets credit but the salesman does not. So while Vortex floods the market with product companies like Zeiss are on the brink of tottering into bankruptcy. Heresy you say but think about how hard they are marketing and how they have streamlined their products, they are struggling. Watch for Sig. They are making better and better products. I can tell that eventually they have the lane to challenge vortex. Swaro has a different lane. I don't think that they worry about anybody.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 26
Campfire Greenhorn
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 26 |
forgot to mention they also have very aggressive spifs for the counter staff. 1/2 off cards are given out like candy and a points system encouraging them to push products and rewarding them with free products. Or so I'm told This, plus marketing, sponsoring matches/prize tables, oh and a 50% Mil/Le discount cant hurt either. Makes for a lot of fanboys.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,749
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,749 |
I bought, used, and was very pleased with several Vortex scopes for years. I felt the original Viper scopes brought better value to the market at that time, than others costing up to 50% more.
I'm admittedly a "set & forget" scope user, and the scopes worked well for that. They'd actually "set" when I moved the knobs, and then they'd stay there as the years went by. That's 90% of what I ask of a scope, and there's one particularly popular scope brand that can seldom even do that much for me.
As of late, however, Vortex seems to be chasing a different user, one wanting more complex reticles, higher-end glass, and knobs, dials, turrets, etc. Apparently these users don't care if a scope is 24 oz, either. Any Vortex scopes that are trim, light, and uncomplicated, are either in their lowest level product lines, or simply not offered. Accordingly, I'm looking elsewhere these days.
I've not spent any appreciable time with their binocs, but I'd imagine they can spec & source a bionic that will do what 95%+ of hunters/birders want them to do, and at a competitive price. Then again, so can hundreds of other companies. It's astounding how much binocular $300 will buy these days. It's also astounding how much I'd have to spend to travel to areas where glassing with a $300 binocular really starts to fall behind the view from a $1,000 binocular, at least for my eyes.
Value is value. I wanna get the most performance for what I pay. Lots of companies are in that sweet spot. The next consideration is whether the company will be around to take care of the buyer. Vortex probably will. The original Chinese-Alpha bino makers? Not so much.
Apparently the US market is still seeking more choices in optics. Athlon, Maven, Brunton, Vanguard, yadda yadda yadda have entered lately. Bushnell, Burris, Tasco, etc. are still around. It'll be interesting to see who's still standing in another 5 to 10 years.
FC
"Every day is a holiday, and every meal is a banquet."
- Mrs. FC
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,741 Likes: 36
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,741 Likes: 36 |
I don’t understand the vortex craze either. A Nikon is a better version of a vortex for the same $$$ and when you get into their “high end” stuff it makes Nightforce look light weight. LOL... Either you don't know much about NightForce, or I don't know much about Nikon...
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 15,898 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 15,898 Likes: 1 |
I'm not sure what the other mfgs warranty is these days, but the 'we dont care what happened, we'll fix or replace it" warranty from Vortex, is what got me to buy one.
That was several years ago. And, yes I fell and broke the scope, completely my fault. I called Vortex, explained what happened, and they said send it in. 5 days later I get an e-mail saying the scope cant be repaired and 5 days after the e-mail, a new scope arrives, during hunting season.
I only got the one Vortex scope, but I'm satisfied with it.
Old Turd- Deplorable- Unrepentant Murderer- Domestic Violent Extremist
Just "Campfire Riffraff and Trash"
This will be my last post! Flave 1/3/21
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 628
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 628 |
I don’t understand the vortex craze either. A Nikon is a better version of a vortex for the same $$$ and when you get into their “high end” stuff it makes Nightforce look light weight. LOL... Either you don't know much about NightForce, or I don't know much about Nikon... Well I know my ATACR 4-16x42 is 30oz and a Razor HD Gen II 3-18x50 weighs 46oz. I’ll admit for an extra $1000 you can get the AMG at about 29oz, but at that price range I’d be looking at a Tangent Theta. I’ll take a Nikon monarch over any of vortex “set and forget” models.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,246
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,246 |
I don't own any Vortex optics,but why the hell does it matter?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,286 Likes: 15
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,286 Likes: 15 |
Might want to read a bit more before posting that. They have a facility in Wisconsin that makes some optics. 95% of anything Vortex is Chinese. Always something at least as good or better for the same or less money. Uncle Rico... When are you going to stop pulling numbers out of your ass and trying to pass them off as meaningful? Let's say you were close to half-right (you are not close) that would mean over $30,000,000 in sales. What is Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Docktor, Nikon, or any other company doing in annual builds outside China? Outside Asia? In the US? Go ahead, make another guess. I am sure it will be closer than your last guess. Vortex' biggest fanboy arrives. Time to face reality SD, you're as clueless on this subject as most others.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,790 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,790 Likes: 2 |
I have a few Vortex products. They have been good or better for the price points that I purchased them at. Can't exactly compare a $200 scope or binos to a $2000 one and expect it to be better. Although the warranty on the $200 one is just as good if not better. I think for most people the products they sell are right in the wheelhouse of price and features. FWIW: I just picked up some nice used Razor HD 8x42's. Will see how they stack up - and that resale value thing worked well for me.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,867
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,867 |
Two or three weeks ago, there was a flurry of information and praise for the Athlon Midas 10x42 binocular. It was/is a direct heads up competitor for the Vortex Diamond back in 10x42. I have a Diamondback, like it a lot, and have used it for a couple of years. But I figured that if the Athlon Midas is sharper and clearer, why not try one. So I did. Wasted money. The Athlon is decent. But it falls short of the Diamondback, not only to my eyes, but to those of my wife. She spends quite a bit of time with me on the range, watching bullet strikes from my Sharps, and says that the Vortex Diamondback is the better binocular, giving better clarity. I felt the same way as soon as I looked through them side by side. It's good that we have choices, but Vortex remains a top choice for the money in my book.
Last edited by sharpsguy; 10/29/19.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,144 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,144 Likes: 6 |
I hear a lot of breast beating by people who would appear to be optics snobs.
For the guy who fancies himself a long range spinner of turrets and whom can't live without bullet drop compensating reticles and world class glass I guess Vortex isn't cool enough. For the average Joe who just wants a pretty decent scope on his deer rifle Vortex is ok along with a slew of others, Asian made or not, that fall into the same price category. But, what would the optics forum on the Campfire be without a host of self-actualized optics experts? I'll go with a top-of-the-line Zeiss one day, if someone pony's up the jingle for me to buy it.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
|
|
|
|
342 members (1OntarioJim, 17Hunter, 17CalFan, 10gaugemag, 1moredeer, 1badf350, 29 invisible),
1,333
guests, and
1,058
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,983
Posts18,520,002
Members74,020
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|