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I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts #14268511 11/09/19
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Desertranger Offline OP
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In several magazine articles and in his books Jack O’Connor wrote that his wife and sons had killed approximately 50 critters with the 257 Roberts loaded with 100 grain bullets traveling at about 2950 FPS.
Now my Ruger 77 250/3000 shoots the same weight bullets at 3000 FPS yet some folks consistently rate the Roberts as a better round!
Yes the Roberts can shoot 110+ grain bullets but in these size rounds is there a significant difference that I have missed?

Last edited by Desertranger; 11/09/19.
300 BP

Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14268519 11/09/19
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Good question.


Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.

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Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14268536 11/09/19
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I think would of liked the 250/3000 had he used it enough. He didn't much care for the 25/06 either.
Jack was an ace, the best hunting and shooting writer of his age.
I like all the .25's


Lead,follow or get out of the wa
Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14268561 11/09/19
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bcp Offline
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Originally Posted by Desertranger
... is there a significant difference that I have missed?


No.



The 257 Roberts was most often seen in Remington, Winchester, and custom bolt rifles.

The 250/3000 was most often seen in the Savage 99 lever action.

The rifles they are used in can determine how people feel about the cartridge.

Bruce

Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14268677 11/10/19
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From what I have read, Jack O'Connor's 250-3000 Savage rifle was a custom Mauser with a 1 in 14" twist barrel. Supposedly it was used to work up the reloading data in the old Lyman manuals. With a slow twist, it might not have been accurate with bullets weighing 100 grains or more. In one of his books O'Connor wrote about shooting rock chucks with a 25-06.


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Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14269049 11/10/19
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southtexas Offline
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The 257 case has about 25% more capacity. So all things being equal (bullet,
pressure, barrel length, etc.), the 257 has the potential to produce about 5% more velocity. At 2900fps, that would be about 150fps. Whether or not that is significant depends on your personal hunting situation and desires.

Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14269064 11/10/19
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I've had several .250 Savage rifles, but all had short barrels (2 Ruger Ultra Lights, 20", a Ruger RSI full stock, 18 1/2", and a TC Contender, 20"). I found H4895 powder to provide the best overall accuracy with bullets in the 87 - 100 grain range. About 2700 - 2750 was the best velocity I got from any of my guns using 100 grain (usually Sierra ProHunter) bullets. With the 87 or 90 grain Sierras, I could get between 2,900 and 3,000 fps. I saw slightly better velocity with powders other than H4895, but usually with a decrease in accuracy.

I have one .257 Roberts, a Kimber, purchased about ten years ago. I believe it has a 22" barrel. A maximum and accurate load of H4350 with either the Barnes 100 TSX BT or the 100 Sierra ProHunter gets about 3,100 fps muzzle velocity.

Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14269090 11/10/19
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ERK Offline
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I believe the savage is just more efficient. They are velocity twins. The savage just uses a little less powder. Edk

Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14269115 11/10/19
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Is your Savage loaded to the nuts?

Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14269134 11/10/19
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Please remember that neither the .257 Roberts nor the 250-3000 Savage are "high pressure" rounds and both are capable of substantially greater velocity when used in firearms that are built to handle the pressures of such rounds as the .270 Winchester.....(and in some cases were handloaded beyond the 65,000 PSI range commonly considered as a "max" load )

If someone had a .250 Savage that generated greater velocity than the "Bob" (that would be easily acceptable due to some folks handloading preferences.....

BTW.....I would never suggest that anyone try to do this using a Savage 99 rifle of the era when that round was popular.....or even a later model for that matter

Last edited by vapodog; 11/10/19.
Bravo

Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14269139 11/10/19
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I find that if precision is required I use the .250-3000 as it consistently shoots ragged hole groups at 100 with Nosler Partitions (100 gr). If 1/2 MOA is acceptable I use the Roberts with Horny 117 gr boat tails.

Only certified 1/4 bore whores will understand this.

Dan


PS: the .25-20 levermatic is appropriate for swamp pigs.

PPS: the .25-20 SS is death on the X-ring. Lord Black rules. I love my old Stevens 44.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: ERK] #14269156 11/10/19
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Originally Posted by ERK
They are velocity twins.


No they're not.

As has been rightly pointed out rightly, with equal pressure, the 257 is a solid 125 fps+ faster. The Roberts is the bigger engine.


Deep greens and blues are the colors I choose.
Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14269180 11/10/19
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Originally Posted by Desertranger

Yes the Roberts can shoot 110+ grain bullets


The .250-3000 isn't capable of shooting 110+ grain bullets? I don't know how long 110 grain .257" bullets generally are compared to 100 grain .257" bullets, but this sounds more like a twist issue than a cartridge issue.



Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: T_Inman] #14269294 11/10/19
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DigitalDan Offline
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Quote
this sounds more like a twist issue than a cartridge issue.


writ large


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: DigitalDan] #14271018 11/10/19
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Pappy348 Offline
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Maybe an action issue too. If I was itching all over for a .25, I'd pick the cartridge that best fit my action of choice. In a single shot, some thought would be given to barrel life and availability of good brass and/or ammo too.

All things considered, my 6mms make the most sense for me right now. I can shoot 115s out of my Creedmoor if I feel a need.


What fresh Hell is this?
Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14271030 11/10/19
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I had a 13 year old boy scout from my scout troop to the rifle range last Friday afternoon preparing for his first "Youth Season" deer hunt this coming Saturday. He shot my Marlin 30-30, 25-06 and my personal favorite...the little 250 Savage. After shooting all 3 rifles I asked him which he preferred....he replied the the little 250.

I asked him "why" His reply was "No" recoil to speak of and the little rifle just felt better in his hands. I have always felt the little 250 to be the perfect 'Youth" rifle.

Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14271051 11/10/19
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rosco1 Offline
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The 257 is capable of 3200+ with 100 grainers. But most load data is handicapped by the boat loads of surplus rifles re barreled to the Roberts. Same could be said of the 250 as well, and a bunch of others.


The .250 and Creedmoor cases are so close to alike savage should get some kind of royalty.. I bet they haven’t seen any of that money though. 😜

Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14271054 11/10/19
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I have a bunch of rifles chambered in 250-3000 and even a few in 257 Roberts. I have found that if all of the variables are equal, the larger case capacity wins the velocity battle every time. In the case of these 2 cartridges, what one will do, the other will do just as well, but then so will the plebeian 243.

Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14271493 11/11/19
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Not sure what you're using to get that much velocity out of the little 250, but my 22" Ruger only goes about 2825 with 35 gr H4895. The highest I've seen listed with a 24" barrel is just over 2900 with H4895 or CFE223. Not saying it's not possible, just that I've not seen published data that shows that much out of a 250.
I routinely run 3050 with 100s in my Ruger 257 Roberts with below max loads.
There is a velocity advantage to the larger case in a modern bolt action, but I'm not sure too many deer will be able to tell the difference.

Re: I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts [Re: Desertranger] #14271509 11/11/19
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Nosler's 250 Savage data showing 35 gr. H4895 and a 100 gr. Ballistic Tip at 2952 fps is right on the money out of my 24" barreled 700 Classic.

To assess the potential of the 257 Roberts one may look to 6mm Rem. loads. The 6 Rem data for 95/100 grain bullets is chock full of combinations showing 3150 fps +/-. Being possessed of the same capacity and a larger bore than the 6 Rem, the 257 Roberts will be capable of even a bit more speed when loaded to like pressure.


"In the real world, think of the 6.5 Creedmoor as the modernized/standardized/optimized version of the 6.5x55/.260." John Barsness 2019
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