Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Body Fueling- the answer(s) to my needs ?

I thought I'd post an update, and a caution.
Roblyn Landis has a website, www.Bodyfueling.com. It contains things like updates, comments on the revival of high protein-high fat diests, etc.
Now before you guys go over there and start reading, I want to caution you. Her basic philosophy is the same. Read carefully and note this. But, she has become a vegeatarian. This is a personal choice, not what she pushes as "the word". We need to remember the main thrust of her position, then as now, is eat prperly, HOW to eat properly and why. What is does for you. On top of that, she goes at great lenths, in her book, as now, to get us out of diet thinking. She advocate no "diet". Just some advice on how to eat better. She says things like forget about weight. Your eyes will tell you if your fat, not your bathroom scale. Your body will function better in many areas if you give it what it wants and needs. You be the judge. There are no "must do's". It 's your call.
She has changed some of the fine points of her personal diet. She now eats a bit more protein, up to 70 grams a day. And a bit more "good" fat like olive oil with, or in her food. This is her personal fine tuning. But she still says the same basics. And emphaisizes that those are the key points. You, when armed with the facts, decide where you want to go.
Lots of detailed discussions on diabetic foods, and why. Lots on discussions on insulin resistance, and descriptions on what insulin does, besides control blood sugar levels.
Sean, I think this is what you were refering to.
I already feel better. I never feel really hungry anymore. My coffee intake has dropped. I don't seem to need more than two cups a day or want more.
I've got a doctors appointment Friday. I'm going to have a general checkup. We'll see if that reveals anything. E

I'm seeing some very positive results. The doctor, BTW, says I'm going to live a long time. A lot of it is because I'm eating right. He made a note of Bodyfueling's web site.
I've always tried to stay in shape in the winter. I don't walk unless the weather is good, which much of the time it isn't. Or the snow is too soft and I sink, even in snowshoes.
So, I use a Nordic Track machine. It allows me to monitor my heart rate and adjust the reisitance of the pulleys, etc.
My usual workout is 35-40 mins. long. I can literally see the differences and compare myself to my past performance.
When I start out, in the fall, it often takes me only 2 - 2.5 mins to reach 140 beats per minute. Then I slow down until my heart reaches 125 bpm. Then I grab the pulleys again and head back up. Interval training. Usually I reach a point where it takes me over 4 mins. to reach 140 bpm. And my distance increases inside that 35-40 time period. By the start of the hiking season, I'm going 1.8 to 1.9 miles in 20-21 mins.
That has changed. I'm now taking longer than 5 mins to reach 140 bpm. Yesterday it took almost 6 mins. I broke the 2 mile in 20 mins barrier a couple of days ago. I did 2 miles in 18 mins and 20 secs yesterday.
The really different part is I'm not exhausted when I'm done. I'm tired and very wet, but, after about 15-20 mins I fell fine. An hour later I feel like it didn't happen. After the first 10-15 mins, I feel really good, with lots of energy. Even better than when I started.
I suspect these new eating habits are going to make a real difference from now on. I should have paid more attention when I younger. Oh, well. Better late than never. E

Great post Guys. please keep it going. I gave up smoking 3 weeks ago after 2 & 1/2 packs for 25 years. I also have 25 lbs of weight to lose so the past few days, I have been looking around at various sites on nutricien. I am planning to start on the Atkins diet because I love to eat meat and have lots of meat available (Moose). I also plan to get a few seals over the next couple of weeks. Some of you guys seem pretty knowlegeable concerning nutricien. Any of you guys have any experience with the Atkins Diet.
Bye the way, I have been enjoying reading your postings for the past several months. I love backcountry hunting by foot and boat. My backpacking trips have been pretty low tech but some have been fairly intensive.
Thanks .
Bogslogger

re: Atkins diet. I have tried it twice and apparently my body switches to ketosis (the fat burning mode) very quickly. The first time I tried it I felt lousy though I lost weight rapidly all the way through. I was excercising quite a bit at the time, leading into an elk hunt. After about 18 days I started eating fruit and carbos while on the hunting trip, and felt better immediately.

The second time I tried it I lasted much longer and felt great the whole time, and lost considerable weight. That was six or seven years ago. I've had some thyroid balancing trouble in the years since so I have stayed away from the Atkins and related diets. I just won't risk tinkering with metabolism so drastically given my ongoing health problems. I took multi vitamins and drank lots of water both times I was on the diet.

This is neither an endorsement nor criticism of the Atkins thing, just a relating of one person's experience. It "worked" in terms of losing weight.

I've been taking the University of California at Berkely's news letter, "The Wellness Letter" for many years now. It is published to counter the claims of fads, frauds and misquotes by the media. They, and Bodyfueling, talk about the Adkins Diet.
The Adkins diet is a diet, which is the first thing wrong with it. When you diet, you loose weight by eating less than your body needs. Your body goes into Stravation Posture. You start consuming both fat and muscle at the same time. When you get to your targeted weight, or just stop; you have lost muscle mass which has taken years to aquire. Since 98% of you calories, no matter where you get them from, are consumed by the muscles, you will gain the weight back with suprising speed. And you will not have the muscle mass to allow the performance you want in the field.
It does work if you only want to loose weight. But, it, and every other diet known, are failures because you will have less ability to maintain your weight and you will have less muscle mass when you are done.
The theory is you loose weight because the fat rich diet will kill your craving for food. But it is really tough on the body. It must not only consume itself, it must convert some of the protein you eat into Glycogen to fuel itself. This conversion creates lots of bad by products that are hard on your body's ability to deal with them.
Bodyfueling trys to get you thinking not about weight, but percentage of body fat. Following it, this percentage of body fat should go down. That's because you will be eating alot less fat than previously. It seems to in my case. Frankly, I don't care. I'm not overweight by any standard. I'm not at "an ideal weight", but again, I don't care. All my medical tests are good, with the exceptionm of my HDL cholesterol. Which I am now consuming more of. I can afford it. My overall fat consumption is way down as a result of following the guidelines in Bodyfueling. What I really care about is my performance. I want to keep Death March Syndrome at bay. I want more muscle mass. This new eating style appears to be working for me like nothing I've ever seen. The funny thing is, I'm eating more and almost never hungry. I snack between meals and do even better than when I don't. E

Ok:

I'd suspect that you felt lousy because you were not able to replace muscle glycogen effectively. If all you have to process for glycogen replacement is protien, you body will do that. (But it won't like it much)

I don't know enough about the Atkins diet to comment, but E's comments are sound ones. I think that the fact that you were exercising heavily during the same period that you were on the Atkins regimen was a bad combination. (kind'a like running and smoking)

JimF

Ok, a diet is what you eat. The atkins diet is designed to make your body lose fat. Everyone has a diet, the diet consists of the food they eat. The atkins diet is extrememly effective in losing bodyfat. My roomate is currently folowing his own "modified "atkins diet, and the results have been outstanding. 50lbs lost in threee months. I think it is too drastic, but we all make our choices. I personally souldnt follow the atkins diet, because i dont think it is that healthy in the long term.

My thought on diet are a lot different than E's. I think lots of high GI complex carbs and low fat and protein are counter-productive to losing bodyfat. One of the most neglected thing in regards to the what we want from a certain "diet", is excersise. After that, it is eating the wrong foods. Not really the wrong foods, because they arent really bad, just the wrong proportions. And another mistake is not eating often enough. My preferred diet breakdown: 200 to 300 grams of protien a day (~1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight). I shoot for 30-50 grams per meal. Stay away from fatty red meat (some is ok once in a while, let your concience decide), and processed food as protien sources, because the "bad" fats. I switched from jif peanut butter to natural and from margerine to real butter because of the fats. Eat fruits and vergatables. Split your remaing calories up evenly between carbs and fats. Good fats are important, dont cut them out of your diet. Most people dont consume too much fat, just too much of the wrong fat, and not enough of the good. Consume mostly low GI carbs. I followed this diet for over a year, and dropped bodyfat and gained muscle mass with heavy weight training. I think of it as just a guideline for eating, instead of a set diet i couldnt imagine sticking to a planned out diet every day.

I really started to love oatmeal in the mornings. 50-60 grams carbs from dry uncooked oatmeal in the bender, 50 grams of protein powder, and a couple big spoons of natural peanut butter, add milk and blend. Mmm tasty.

Now i can talk all i want, but i am a complete slouch and havent followed my own advice for the last few months, my excuse being school, and it being hard to eat often. My other excuse is cost. Neither are real, they are in my head im just s slacker. So if i dont follow my own advice, i sure dont expect you to. But i have hooked a lot of people on my breakfast shake, everyone loves it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Actually Sean, I don't see too much that is different. Your protein intake is higher. Anything more than what you need is converted by the body into fat. Another process which the body doesn't do well.
What each of us needs varys. Anything from 35 to maybe 80 grams a day are the ball park figures I've seen. It doesn't have to be animal protein. But, with animal protein, you are getting a complete protein. It has everything all in one item.
The US average for fat intake is about 42% of our total calories. That's why we are so fat. Too much complex carbohydrates can be converted to fat as well. But, it is much more bulky than fat, therefore you eat more volume and feel full, and the other is that the body takes 25% of the caloric value of the excess carbohydrates to convert them to fat. It is much harder to get fat from too much carbohydrate intake than from fat. The ample carbo intake also kills one's feelings of hunger because your body doesn't crave glucose in the form of hunger.
You are quite right about "good" fats. We need them. But, switching from margerine to real butter won't do any real good. Try switching from margerine, or butter, to olive oil. Or simply eat less of it.
Eating more complex carbohydrates, and reducing the daliy intake of fats under 30%, did, in fact, reduce the body fat on a whole group of carefully monitored women in one well documented study. They ate whatever they wanted to. As long as their daily fat intake remained under 30% of their total caloric intake. I mean, they ate between meals, and had lots to eat with each meal. Over the period of a year, they lost about 2 lbs. a month in weight. Some of them exercised and some didn't. They just changed their proportions and eat whatever and whenever they wanted.
Your quite right about exercise. Some is good, and more is better. I suspect you added muscle mass and reduced your body fat because you had enough carbohydrates in your body to keep your body from going into that pre stravation posture condition where it stops using fat in anticapation of going into stravation posture.
The thing I've discovered is how much hidden fat occurs in the things we eat. But, the good news is there are lots of things out there that allow us to reduce out fat intake. I find I'm actually spending less money than I did before. I cook more, and eat alot more volume wise. The simple rule I follow is "eat whatever I want, when ever I feel like it. I eat nothing with 4 grams, or more, of total fat per serving. I try to stay with those things under 3 grams. " An occasional fatty item isn't a problem. Just the long term, or regulart consumption of them.
When I go food shopping, I read the lablels of everything before I buy it. The thing I really like about my new eating philosophy is I enjoy what I eat more and I never get really hungry. E

Just one small correction about the Atkins diet. On it, you don't lose because you eat fewer calories than your body needs. I would kick start my Atkins runs by eating a big breakfast of bacon and eggs, followed by steaks and bacon for lunch, etc. My appetite never did wane and I ate as much meat as I wanted, and I do like meat. I would sprinkle bran on stuff sometimes to make sure I was getting enough fiber. I was eating mostly elk, moose or deer meat and there wasn't a lot of fat, hence the bacon, but when I'd eat a beef steak I love the fat from those. It is not a low cal diet but (if I understand it correctly) works by depriving the body of carbos and forcing it to turn to burning fat. The fat comes either from food eaten or from body reserves, and apparently in that case, the body reserves are the easiest source. I'd have to assume that the body is passing through a lot of unmetabolized fat and protein. Again, I am not advocating it and think it is both impractical and unhealthy long term, maybe even in short term. It is critical that you drink lots of water or you can damage internal organs on such a high protein/fat diet. The biggest problem to me was the lack of fruit, or minimal fruit.

As I understand it for all my sources, you only use fat for energy under two conditions. One is where the body has lots of glucose in it and plenty of stored Glycogen. Then it will use it's emergency fuel supply - fat. Assuming enough oxygen is present. Or when the body is on stravation posture. Then you use fat and muscle tissue at the same time. The body is forced, by the Atkins Diet, to convert protein to glycogen/glucose to function. Your nervous system, for instance, does not use fat for fuel. It must have glycogen or glucose. The body can't store much Glycogen, maybe 1200-1400 calories worth.
Atkins disputes this. But, a couple of things are very clear. Nobody has found a 20% fat, 60% carbohydrate, and 20% protein diet unhealthy. You live best on it. So say almost all the studies. As Sean said you need enough "good" fat. And the simple sugars are to be avoided.
The Atkins Diet can't be used for long. All agree on this. It fails just like all the other diets. You loose muscle tissue when dieting. And your muscle burn 98% of your calories.
BTW, vension is one of the healthiest meats around. Almost no bad cholesterol and up to 50% protein. The best beef rarely has more than 20% protein.
UC Berkeley's Wellness Letter had this to say about such diets in their Nov. 2002 editions.
Atkins: "Americans have shifted to low fat diets, but have still gained weight."
UC: "Americans are eating just as many grams of fat as they did 20-30 years ago, or slightly more. The overall percentage of fat has dropped, but we've accomplished that by eating more high carbohydrate (usually sugary) foods and soft drinks. ....we're consuming 300 to 500 more calories per day. That's a big difference and a very unhealthy scenario. "
Atkins: "People gain weight because carbohydrate-rich foods (everything from pasta, bread, and rice to fruits, vegetables and "sweets") actually make them hungrier".
UC: There is no evidence that most high-carbohydrate foods stimulate appetite. Sugary, or starchy foods, when eaten by themseleves, can cause a spike in insulin level, followed by a drop in blood sugar, and thus may leave some people hungry in an hour or two. But not all carbohydrate rich foods do this, certainly not most vegetables and fruits, beans, and whole grains, or even starchy foods when eaten as part of a balanced meal. And. by the way, most people who say they crave carbohydrates or have a "sweet tooth" actually overindulge in combinations of fat and sugar, such as cakes and ice cream, not plain sugary foods like jellybeans. "
Atkins: " It has never been proven that a carbohydrate rich diet can promote weight control and good health. "
UC: "Not true. Many studies have shown that the right kind of high carb diet can help people loose weight and reduce the risk of heart disease, diabetes, and certain cancers. " E

Thanks for the info on the Atkins guys.
I am eating lots of protein,most of it from game. I love meat. For fats since most game is lean I'm using olive oil plus I eat beef now and again. I have cut all simple carbohydrates such as sugar,white bread, basically anything made with white flour. The worst is as Okanagan said it the cutting out of fruit and juices. The first phase is to cut severely on the carbs to get the body into kertosis. After 2 weeks I can eat limited complex carbohydrates. I have got to say though that by quitting smoking and cutting out sugars and proccessed food I feel great. I am walking 5 miles a day on pretty rough terrain and really feel as if I am getting in shape. The seal hunt is in full swing here in Newfoundland so sealmeat is available. This should be great for the diet that I am on. Basically for me the only thing I have change from my regular diet is for two weeks to severely restrict carbohydrates.After two weeks I am going to resume complex carbs in limited quantities but I hope to stay away from simple carbs for good. Thanks for the help and info guys
Gordy

Meat is good. But understand that a prolonged diet of lots of red meat contributes to buildup and eventual blockage of your arteries. Heart disease. Game is better than beef, but make sure you not consuming too much animal fat, unless it is from fish. There are lots of good protien sources that dont have the bad animal fat. Nonfat cottage cheese, poultry, fish, egg whites, and powdered protein blends (whey,casein,soy) proteinfactory.com are good ways to add the protein without the bad fats. I absolutly love the penta pro from protein factory, it tastes awsome and is a really good mix of different proteins, and its much cheaper than even canned tuna fish. Its not a substitute for whole food protein, just a easy and effective way to add more. Obviously i am more of a believer in higher protein diets, i think equal amounts (calories) of protein fats and carbs are the way to go ~33%/33%/33%. Note that fat has nine calories per gram and protein and carbs have four per gram. It is very easy to eat too much fat, and the reason that makes you fat is because your overall calorie intake is much higher.

In the end it is your overall calorie intake that determines if you gain or lose weight. Your diet just decides the proportion of fat and muscle you gain or lose (along with exercise). It is very very difficult to gain muscle without gaining fat, and very very difficult to lose fat without losing muscle. The only way to do either without illegal drugs is to do it very slowly with a good diet and exercise. Changes in overall calorie intake need to be small, and it takes a lot of time.

Basically, good stuff Sean. I don't agree on the percentages, but good, basic info. E

When Will Steger was making his way under his own power to the North Pole, he would eat sticks of butter for the fat. Many of you obviously know much more about this than I, but I think fat gets a bad rap. When someone is on a backpack trip I really don't think they need to worry about taking in too much fat. It is the most "dense" form of energy. Any comments?

Fat is your body's emergency fuel. It is used by the body to keep you alive under stravation conditions. If you carrying the minimum, or starving, you bet fat would be the thing to eat.
To burn fat as energy, though, you need to have plenty of glucose, or glycogen in your system, or be starving. And you need plenty of oxygen to burn it.
Fat is necessary to utilize and store the fat soluble vitamins as well. The so called good cholesterol - HDL- actually counteracts the effects of of the "bad", LDL cholesterol. But, even "bad cholesterol"" is necessary for good health. It is an essential part of cell wall constuction, for instance.
The trouble is we, in the US and Canada, eat too much of it. 62% of us are too fat. E

The BodyFueling philosophy is working for me.
Every summer, I hike a canyon as a casual day hike and workout. It's almost 2.5 miles, one way, and a 700 plus ft elevation change. The temperatures are often in the 90's.
Yesterday, I came all the way out w/o stopping. I've never done this well before. Not even close. True, I did make sure I was breathing regularly, and deeply, trough my mouth. I cut back somewhat, at the steep areas, on my stride.
I also ate a high carb snack 30 mins before coming out.
I'm convinced this "bodyfueling" philosophy really works. E

I'm in trouble.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Rick

I've been following the Atkins approach. Avoiding sugar and low carbo. The carbo I do consume are in the form of fruits and vegetables, very little complex carbo. I have lost 20 lbs in the last three months eating lots of meat, and cheese. My energy levels have increased. I use to get sleepy in the afternoons, but since I've been eating a low carbo diet this doesn't happen anymore.

The best information I have is the Atkins Diet does work - in the short term. The high fat intake kills one's appetite, resulting in fewer total calories consumed. Like all diets, it works because you consume less calories than you need. And, like all diets, the loss is as much muscle mass as fat. No long term studies have been done of the Atkins Diet. But all other diets that have had long term studies done indicate that the lost weight comes back in the form of even more fat. That's because the body must burn glucose as well as fat. When the Glycogen stores burn out, and this doesn't take long, the body starts using up muscle tissue to produce glucose. Our nervous system, for instance, can't use fat for fuel. This is why we can't think too clearly when we are exhausted.
The only true long term study I know of which involved permanent weight loss was done with a bunch of women. Ages ranged from the 20's to the 60's. They ate as often as they wanted and as much as they wanted. But, they ate nothing with more than 4 grams of fat per serving. Some exercised and some didn't. They were monitored to see if they really did eat what they were suppose to, etc. All of them lost between 1 and 2 lbs of weight per month, for the whole two years of the study. After the study was over, some went back to their old eating habits. And started gaining body fat. Those that consumed 20-30% of their calories in fat, did not regain their body fat.
Atkins is patially right on one point. Some carbohydrates are bad. The simple carbohydrates, sugars, when eaten alone. Sugars give one the well known insulin spike which not only makes one feel hungry, but also locks up one's Glycogen stores. But, when consumed with other complex carbohydrates in sufficent quantity, they do no harm at all.
Our body's need both, all the time. Fat, however, does only one job, and can't be converted into any other nutrient. Excess carbohydrates can be converted to fat, but rarely are. Excess proteins are regularly converted to fat. Or, under stravation (dieting) conditions converted to glucose. But fat is always fat and is only used as energy with glucose. E