Just my 2 cents worth. Recently a gunwriter layne Simpson I think decided to build a 250 savage AI, for brass he just used 6mm credemore case necked to 25 cal. No fire forming just load and shoot. Me thinks the credemore just reinvented the wheel. Is it the 6.5 credemore or the 6.5/250 savage AI.
Years ago 1982 Aussie gun writer Nick Harvey and your own les Bowmen attended a Remington seminar. Both were presented rem 700s in 257 Roberts. Nick had his long throated so he could SEAT bullets to match the chamber 3inch. He developed loads pushing 3,200fps with a 100gn and close on 3,000 fps with a 120 gn. He corresponded with Les about his result, he didn't believe Nick until he tried it himself and got the same results. Bowman approached Remington about upping their anemic Roberts loads to real world pressure but was declined in difference to all the so called weak actions. As Harvey points out the Roberts was introduced in rems 721 action not a weak action. Anyway that's my 2 cents of history may the 25s rule. I know the above is fact because Nick Harvey wrote an article about it in the Australian sporting shooter Mag and I have spoken with him personally about it he love his Roberts.
Just my 2 cents worth. Recently a gunwriter layne Simpson I think decided to build a 250 savage AI, for brass he just used 6mm credemore case necked to 25 cal. No fire forming just load and shoot. Me thinks the credemore just reinvented the wheel. Is it the 6.5 credemore or the 6.5/250 savage AI.
Years ago 1982 Aussie gun writer Nick Harvey and your own les Bowmen attended a Remington seminar. Both were presented rem 700s in 257 Roberts. Nick had his long throated so he could SEAT bullets to match the chamber 3inch. He developed loads pushing 3,200fps with a 100gn and close on 3,000 fps with a 120 gn. He corresponded with Les about his result, he didn't believe Nick until he tried it himself and got the same results. Bowman approached Remington about upping their anemic Roberts loads to real world pressure but was declined in difference to all the so called weak actions. As Harvey points out the Roberts was introduced in rems 721 action not a weak action. Anyway that's my 2 cents of history may the 25s rule. I know the above is fact because Nick Harvey wrote an article about it in the Australian sporting shooter Mag and I have spoken with him personally about it he love his Roberts.
Layne must have magic dies. Considering a 250 Ackley has a 40 degree shoulder and the 6mm Creedmoor has a 30 degree shoulder.
PS: Give spell check a whirl.
'If you say the parent you were most afraid when you were a kid was your dad, you grew up in the city.'
My 99 takedown .250, circa 1919, does very well with the load from Hornady #3, 37gr IMR4320. It gets 3071 fps and 1.5-1,75" three shot groups. My 700 Classic with 24" barrel, 100gr NBTs, and the same powder charge, clocks 3003fps and 1/2" groups. The big (26" barrel) .257 with 85gr NBTs and 47gr W760 clocks 3347 and sub 1/2", while the 23" barreled 95 Mauser shoots sub 1" with several loads. Velocity of the 100gr Hornadys is about 3100. I love them all.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
Girl hunter my spelling may not be perfect but if my memory serves me correctly the 250 AI can be had with two different shoulder angles. Do some research and see for yourself. As for the creed having tighter saami specs I doubt it saami specs set out a max and minimal spec for all cartridges. Loaded to the same pressure and same tight spec chamber there would be stuff all in it between a .257 and .264. My spelling may not be acceptable to girl hunter but surely .007 of an inch ain't gonna make a great deal of difference in the real world. Both will kill things. My personal 25 is capable of 0.90 groups in my old hands and kills stuff as far as I can shoot. I think 7 thousands of an in is clutching at straws. Both ore fine cartridges for thier intended purpose.
Girl hunter my spelling may not be perfect but if my memory serves me correctly the 250 AI can be had with two different shoulder angles. Do some research and see for yourself. As for the creed having tighter saami specs I doubt it saami specs set out a max and minimal spec for all cartridges. Loaded to the same pressure and same tight spec chamber there would be stuff all in it between a .257 and .264. My spelling may not be acceptable to girl hunter but surely .007 of an inch ain't gonna make a great deal of difference in the real world. Both will kill things. My personal 25 is capable of 0.90 groups in my old hands and kills stuff as far as I can shoot. I think 7 thousands of an in is clutching at straws. Both ore fine cartridges for thier intended purpose.
A 250 Ackley Improved is 40 degree shoulder, period.
'If you say the parent you were most afraid when you were a kid was your dad, you grew up in the city.'
When I bought my first 5.3 Creedmoor in 2010, it didn't take long to notice the resemblance to the .250 Savage Improved. In fact back then 6.5 Creedmoor brass was pretty scarce, so when assigned to do an article for HANDLOADER magazine I tried blowing out .22-250 brass (far more available than either .250 or 6.5 CM back then) using the technique of using some Unique powder with cornmeal or Cream of Wheat (uncooked of course) on top. It worked perfectly, so the resemblance between the .250 Improved and the 6.5 Creedmoor isn't exactly news.
The Ackley version of the .250 Improved does indeed have a 40-degree shoulder, but the RCBS version (which many people do not remember) had a 28-degree shoulder, very close to the Creedmoor's 30 degrees.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
My 99 takedown .250, circa 1919, does very well with the load from Hornady #3, 37gr IMR4320. It gets 3071 fps and 1.5-1,75" three shot groups. My 700 Classic with 24" barrel, 100gr NBTs, and the same powder charge, clocks 3003fps and 1/2" groups. The big (26" barrel) .257 with 85gr NBTs and 47gr W760 clocks 3347 and sub 1/2", while the 23" barreled 95 Mauser shoots sub 1" with several loads. Velocity of the 100gr Hornadys is about 3100. I love them all.
Shootinurse, some questions.
1) What barrel length of the M 99 takedown?
2) Hornady #3 manual load, are you using the 100 grain Hornady bullet and what case and primer?
3) How many firings can you get from a case with that Hornady load?
Mule Deer Thanks for clarification on the 250 savage improved I knew there was two different angles just thought they were both AI as my reloading stuff just mentions a 28 degree, 40 degree and standard My own personal 25/303 Epps Newton improved has a 35 degree shoulder
Mule Deer Thanks for clarification on the 250 savage improved I knew there was two different angles just thought they were both AI as my reloading stuff just mentions a 28 degree, 40 degree and standard My own personal 25/303 Epps Newton improved has a 35 degree shoulder
So in short, you were wrong.
'If you say the parent you were most afraid when you were a kid was your dad, you grew up in the city.'
Mule Deer I actually have 2 First one built on a smle no4 action equals the Roberts in every aspect velocity wise. Built for my son. The other built on a P14 action, 24 inch llijla match grade barrel, timney trigger set a 2.5 # with a boyds stock. The cartridge is a 303 British necked to 25 cal, blown out with minimal taper shoulder moved forward and neck length shortened to .257 length. While still maintaining the full length of the case. This allows me to SAFELY load 58 grains of hogdon superformance behind a 100grain Barnes ttsx and 52 grains behind the 117sst respective velocities are 3,600 and 3,370 fps. Cases are easy to fire form and 8 to 10 reloads per case.
Girlhunter correct the AI may be 40 degree but you must admit there's 2 different shoulder angles. Why be so pedantic and admit there's other versions. I have been reloading going on 40years and can't remember everything.
Anyway mule deer after reading gun gack and seeing how much you and Eileen like the 25 caliber both the Bob and the savage are fine cartridges that will do most things needed when loaded to their potential, my 25 is just a bit more of a good thing.
Just my 2 cents worth. Recently a gunwriter layne Simpson I think decided to build a 250 savage AI, for brass he just used 6mm credemore case necked to 25 cal. No fire forming just load and shoot. Me thinks the credemore just reinvented the wheel. Is it the 6.5 credemore or the 6.5/250 savage AI.
Years ago 1982 Aussie gun writer Nick Harvey and your own les Bowmen attended a Remington seminar. Both were presented rem 700s in 257 Roberts. Nick had his long throated so he could SEAT bullets to match the chamber 3inch. He developed loads pushing 3,200fps with a 100gn and close on 3,000 fps with a 120 gn. He corresponded with Les about his result, he didn't believe Nick until he tried it himself and got the same results. Bowman approached Remington about upping their anemic Roberts loads to real world pressure but was declined in difference to all the so called weak actions. As Harvey points out the Roberts was introduced in rems 721 action not a weak action. Anyway that's my 2 cents of history may the 25s rule. I know the above is fact because Nick Harvey wrote an article about it in the Australian sporting shooter Mag and I have spoken with him personally about it he love his Roberts.
I don't know who Nick Harvey is, but if he " points out the Roberts was introduced in rems 721 action not a weak action", he is wrong.
The 257 Roberts was introduced before WW2 started and was chambered by American manufacturers in the Remington 30, Winchester 54, and Winchester 70. The weakest actions that the 257 Roberts has been cataloged in aren't weak at all, the Browning BLR and Remington 760. The Remington 721 was never cataloged in 257 Roberts. That would have been the 721's short action brother, the 722.
I believe that the only long action that Remington chambered in 257 Roberts in post-WW2 were the one year run of 700 Classics in 1982 and a non-cataloged limited run of stainless 700 Classics sometime after 1982.
There also might have been some Remington 720s made in 257 Roberts, but if so, there must not have been many of them made.
Mule Deer Thanks for clarification on the 250 savage improved I knew there was two different angles just thought they were both AI as my reloading stuff just mentions a 28 degree, 40 degree and standard My own personal 25/303 Epps Newton improved has a 35 degree shoulder
So in short, you were wrong.
How so?
The Ackley is 40°, but there is a 250 Improved 28° cartridge. A reloading die set from Huntingtons' is # 56162
Both the Bob and 3000 are "interesting" cartridges and fun to fool with BUT if you are setting out today to build/buy a NEW rifle, they hold no magic.
Newer cartridges like the 6mm/6.5 Creedmore, with tighter SAMMI specs can exceed the performance of these older 25s.
Bullet selection and case quality is also far better in 6/6.5 mm.
While I love my 99 and 722, I would never duplicate those chamberings if building/buying new.
Good points. I like old, interesting rifles, and pick them up from time to time, get them shooting, then usually send them on to someone else, having had my fun. Last one was a Husky '06. Getting such rifles chambered for semi-obsolete (or orphan if you prefer) cartridges back in business is the only real reason, IMO, to take on the project of cobbling together (mostly) brass and other stuff to feed, unless the quest itself is the attraction. As Old Jack pointed out long, long ago, mild cartridges kill well because people shoot them well, and as Old Barsness often says, ordinary bullets work well at moderate speeds. No magic here, and the results are easily duplicated with modern or "standard" cartridges in calibers from .24 to .30 caliber without all the trouble. By all means do what plucks your heart strings, but spare me the tears and soft music while you do it.
OH i think there is a little magic in the 250 Savage & 257 Roberts = it brings back memories of the past . as does Santa Claus Merry Christmas to all !Pete53
OH i think there is a little magic in the 250 Savage & 257 Roberts = it brings back memories of the past . as does Santa Claus Merry Christmas to all !Pete53
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