Home Forums Gear Hunting Trucks and Four-Wheel Drives AT tire good in mud

I bought a set of BF Goodrich AT KO2's for my Ram 1500 4x4. They go great in the snow but are terrible in this western mud. They just do not clean out and it's like being on slicks. Since I do way more highway driving than off-road, I don't want to go to mud tires just an AT that is better in the mud. Suggestions?

I found the same thing with Cooper AT3's.

you need something with more gap in between the lugs and deeper lugs. This will make the tires louder when on the road. Look at Nitto Ridge Grapplers, they might work. They make mud terrain tires for reason, they rock in mud, they just suck driving everywhere else.

Also, wheels speed is your friend.

Cooper ST Maxx are a happy medium

Thats a great tire.

Open lugs on the sides is the KEY to what you need to clear the mud even then...

Been here a few times on both sides.

I just wore out a set of Cooper AT/3's and was looking for something a bit more aggressive, but not a true mud tire. The BFG's were on my list as well as the Falken Wildpeaks and Goodyear Duratrac's which get a lot of good reviews. I settled on these instead. They are a fairly new tire and there are no real reviews on them. I hang out some on the Tacoma and F150 forums and while tires are often discussed I've not run across anyone else using these yet. In the tire store side by side these fall in between the BFG.s and Goodyears as to how aggressive the tread is. The price was right too. I went with E rated LT275/70/18's that normally sell for about $210 each. I bought them at our local Sam's Club where there was an $80 instant rebate and by paying for them on Black Friday got another $60 off. Total OTD cost for me was $814.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=Scorpion+All+Terrain+Plus

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/galleries/14521485#Post14521485

So far I'm really liking them. Hwy ride is good, no road noise yet, but in my experience tires get louder as they wear out. Wet pavement is where I'm most impressed. Great tire. No snow here yet, but they do have the snowflake and 3 peaks symbol so they should be good in snow. The only mud experience was earlier in the week when I ran across a large dead tree down across a forest service road. I had to drag it out of the way and had no choice but to drive through ankle deep mud while dragging the tree. They did just fine for that

I have just about wore out a second set of Cooper ST Maxx.
(265/75R16 on an old diesel F350)


As Tikka & Fats mentioned, they are a good compromise.
(and my pickup is WAY dirtier)


And of course when it gets really muddy it doesn't matter what tire.

Do you have gumbo/bentonite clay mud in Colorado? I know gumbo is found from OR to MT, and it is the worst mud that you've ever seen. And it's difficult to get recommendations from people in other parts of the country, with different soil compositions.

If you're looking for AT tires for real gumbo, I don't think it's worth the time or money. It is really sticky, like glue. Tires can't shed it, and actually grow in diameter. It becomes mud on mud, instead of rubber on mud. Like running slicks. In fact, your shoes will collect mud and become heavier and bigger with every step.

Anyone try the Goodyear Fierce Attitude in this application? I've always thought them to be too open for my uses given the amount of time our roads are covered in snow/ice. Warmer climates they might be a better choice though.

Duratrac tires on my 2011 1500 chevy are not great in the mud. Next set of tires I will try the Cooper STT Maxx as I was told they are better in mud by a few friends who have tries both the Coopers and the Duratracs

I’ve yet to see an AT that I though did well in sticky mud. You need void spaces that AT tires don’t have.

My mother spent some of her growing up years in MO. She used to talk about that wonderful 'red soil of MO'. Some years later, I spent some time at Ft Leonard Wood, MO and I found out all about that 'wonderful' red soil. Walk a quarter mile in mud and each boot weighed 20 lb. Use a wire brush to get it off. It was miserable stuff.

Cooper also has the 3 ply sidewall.......

one tough tire......heavy yes......road noise yes.....

My brother in law and his brothers are huge fans of the Fierce Attitude on their half ton Chevys. They live in eastern SD where the dirt is black and sticky and they get a boatload of snow every winter. They claim it’s the best all around tire they’ve ever seen.

I kinda tend to agree with others though, in that short of a mud tire nothing is going to be good in the mud. Really good in deep sticky stuff requires giant tread blocks and horrible road manners along with lots of wheel speed. For a getting around the greasy backroads and pastures hard work tire I still like the M55 Toyo. I ran a set year around on my 3/4 ton when I lived in Alaska and they weren’t bad in the snow either, there are certainly better options for ice though.

Like NM, Colorado has calichi (sp) mud. Slick as snot when wet, balls up and when it dries it is like cement. Mix a little grass or straw with it and you make adobes. Our gun range has the clay, it will build you boots up to 10 pounds pretty quick

I'm from the way, WAY east of you. But we have our own varieties of schitty clay mud. IMHO..........an AT designation on a tire is like calling a Subaru Outback an off road vehicle. Yeah.........it'll go where a Camry won't. But it won't go a LOT of places a real 4x4 will.

I run BFG original KM's on my Z-71 around here from about October til May. I hate to walk when I ain't gotta. Spring 2018 found me and my brother turkey hunting Wyoming by ourselves and on the blind. I had seen what the roads in the NE panhandle turned into when wet before. Never so glad to have enough tire in my life one morning in the dark after an overnight rain........ !!! That Wyoming mud is a whole new level of bad !!!! Like grease on top of glass on top of ice. We got in. We hunted. We got out. We hauled about 500 pounds of Wyoming back I-80 in the wheel wells til it rained in Illinois and it started falling out.

Road tires are road tires. Mud tires are mud tires. Mud tires work WAY better on the road than road tires work in the mud.

So far the best At tire I have used (it is a hybrid I think) is the Kelly TSR. I have used them on my old GMC and never got stuck, mud or snow. I used them this year on my 3500 Ram diesel. A buddy and I were hunting or I should say trying to get to where we wanted to hunt north of the Ft. Peck Reservoir. Bentonite mud. We got about 100 yards in when the pick-up just sank into the mud. Thought we were going to be digging but put it in reverse and they dug us out of there.

Exactly. Trade offs in everything. If you.need a mud tire buy a mud tire.

Toyo Open Country AT II's You may have to spin them to clean them out. Standard rear end 4wd. Pulled a 5X8 trailer in the same spot and got pretty greasy a time or two I was there!









Mike

It's amazing stuff. I think a student in Montana wrote a research paper on gumbo. From what I remember, it's clay and volcanic ash (the bentonite).

I don't see it here in Western Oregon, but most of the dirt roads are well maintained and gravel, although we have lots of clay. In Central and Eastern Oregon, I see gumbo. When I was riding motos, it was a concern on our spring and summer trips as a quick shower could stop a moto in its tracks. Same for a car or truck.

Stole this pic from another site.

[url=https://postimages.org/]

When I lived in Arizona, I had to do some digging for work. Easy with a shovel, until we hit that caliche! It was like cement.

Look also at maxxis bighorns. Still civil on pavement. Are a step up in mud from the bfg km2’s on f250 hunting/utility truck, a very good tire my most accounts but surprising poor in montana mud. Hard to strand a ‘67 4x4 hiboy w/ lockers in backcountry but came close with the km2’s.

KM2's suck.

Period.

Had a BRAND NEW (under 50 miles) set of 35" KM2's on a lifted '05 Expedition (granted...….a soccer mom's Ford, but...) and could NOT get up a routine hill...…...grass covered mud. The SAME grass covered mud hill my wife's Suburban (with original KM's) walked right up with no fanfare.

I have the Bighorns on my truck. They work pretty well in the gumbo mud. I do air them down some when I know I will be in the gooey s*hit.

I don't think such a thing exists else I'd be driving them. Either drive ATs and put up with what you don't like about them or drive MTs and put up with what you don't like about them.

I am currently driving Toyo Open Country MTs on my Tacoma. I'm in my mid 50s. I have never gotten over 40K miles on a set of tires before including ATs. I made it on my first set on this truck and I'm going to make it on the current set. They are as quiet as any tire, including ATs, that I've ever owned. And yeah .. they are also the most expensive tires I've ever owned in absolute terms but they're not the most expensive per mile I've ever driven.

Tom

Kumho MT KL71. I’m sure this is a tire not many of you have heard of or even thought about, they have a higher silica content in them and they are more pliable and siped allowing for a better clean out. They also have a good tread life warranty and are not crazy loud on the street.

I run Coopers on my hunting rig. With two sets of Skidsteer chains in the back of the truck. Oregon gumbo in some areas will plug MT tires. Then some areas are too rough to keep the tires spun up enough to clean out. There are two sets of chains in all my 4x4 rigs.

New 2002 S-10 ZR2 came with BFG TA KOs. Fair in snow, sucked big time in the least bit of mud. Pulled off the end of a stoned lot the first spring I had that truck. Didn't realize the mud was that deep. Damn near into the hubs, eventually got up outta there, with an audience looking on.

Pretty fussy after that, where I took that truck.Had Cooper AT/3s on a Silverado and a set of Hankook ATMs on the one I have now. Good all around traction and great tread life.Either one was better in mud, than them damn BFGs.

FWIW. The BFG At’s you refer to in 2002 are not made anymore. They did a pretty big redesign and they are now the KO2’s. They may (or may not) still suck in the mud, but they are a different tire than the ones you used.

Well.........from what I can tell....... BFG has also discontinued the original KM. 😠😠😠

Not sure what direction I'll go when the set I'm running now wear out. This was a TOTAL SCHITT move by BFG !!! Their current mud tires offerings are garbage.

FWIW. The BFG At’s you refer to in 2002 are not made anymore. They did a pretty big redesign and they are now the KO2’s. They may (or may not) still suck in the mud, but they are a different tire than the ones you used.

Just had the boss lady's Colorado at Sam's Monday, for a new set of Hancook "highway" tires.

Plenty of time to kill while there. Stack of 275/18" BFGs there in the show room area. Didn't really see much difference in their tread design, than the 2002 TA K0s I once had. Exactly what did I miss, 'cause I ain't no where near blind, yet?

One big change most tire makers made in "AT" type tires, was back in the late 80s or early 90s. Had a set of Firestones on my '80 Chevy 4x4. Forget the name, but they were wide, aggressive tread gums designed for off road use. They worked fairly well off road, but were a handful on the highways in heavy rains. Hydroplaned enough that you really needed to pay attention in standing water at highway speeds. Buddy put a similar set of Goodyears on his truck, noticed the same problem.

It was a few years later that manufacturers opened up the shoulder tread, so water could escape. If you had a set of tires like the ones we had and hit standing water going 65, things could get dicey right quick.

Well, you could google it instead of relying on an 18 year old mental picture. They look outwardly somewhat similar, but they are suppose to be substantially improved in a number of ways. I’m not sure if it made them better or not as I never ran the originals. They seem to get pretty good reviews. The coopers I had were pretty good but broken belts turned me off of them.

They look outwardly somewhat similar, but they are suppose to be substantially improved in a number of ways.

Well, yeah and that was my point. Just looked at what's available now, at Sam's Club last week. Did not really note drastic differences in the basic tread pattern? Because I'm an old fook, brought up pics of them before I answered you originally. Danged if I see much different?

At any rate, my experiences with that tire years ago, made me never want any more of 'em. Toss up with me on Coopers and Hancooks. Both gave good traction and very good tread life. Sold the Coopers when I traded trucks, think they were upwards of 45,000 miles at the time and still pretty good.

Hancooks I just replaced last November. All but 60K on them by then, would've probably passed inspection, but I don't head into winter with tires that worn? Replacements were all but free and practically new, or I would've bought another set of Hancooks.

Damn near free is pretty hard to beat?

The KO2's have a bit thicker sidewall and a more aggressive tread on the shoulder of the tire.

That's the two major differences I can see.

Thicker sidewall not evident, but a big plus. One of mine literally exploded at 50-some thousand miles, while crackin' along at 65-70 MPH. Not much of a confidence builder, to suddenly lose a front tire at that speed.

I missed the shoulder improvement. As I recall, the original ones like mine, were kinda squared off across the tread, at the shoulders?

Guy pulled up beside me at a light the other day, in a lifted Rubicon with some large tires on it. Noticed the tread on the spare, looked pretty capable? Large tread blocks, plenty of space between them. As we rolled on down the road, didn't seem like they were as noisy as I expected they'd be, with that coarse of a tread?

There's a lifted RAM that comes past our place on a fairly regular basis. No idea what he has on that thing, but I can hear them tires singing long before he gets here. That would drive me insane, having to listen to that all day.

Toyo M55. Good off road tire. Oilfield standard. Not very good on ice. Everything with a tire purchase is about compromise.

i use to run the goodrich "mudder" tire on my dodg diesel 4x 4. after four of them exploded at different times, all insured so free replacement i said no more. the last one threw me into a guard rail. we sent the tire into goodrich, they refused to do any thing about it said i didn' stop fast enough. well doing 70mph in heavy traffic and your front tire blows, you can't stop on a time. that cost me about 4000 in body damange.
i switched to coopers.

I'm a sure fire killjoy, when it comes to BFG tires. Anytime someone at our club shows up with a new set on a truck or SUV, I can't help myself. Sooner or later, gonna hafta share the doom and gloom.

A buddy just put a set of their Advantage TAs on his Tacoma. Listened to him tell how much he liked them, had to mention my experiences with 'em years ago. Kinda dampened his spirit a bit.

Spreadin' fear and apprehension like a 2020 Dimocrat, when it comes to BFG.

From the YMMV department.........

I've put over 200k miles on BFG KM's between a Suburban Z-71 and a Silverado Z-71 with no incidents and ZERO complaints.

I will reiterate............. BFG KM2's suck.

Has anyone tried out the Yokohama X AT yet? There isn't many reviews out there yet but they were all positive.

Look at the red dirt!!

Life in the Dirty South


Mike

I’ve had Maxxis Buckshot mud tires on 4 different trucks and have found them to be a fairly quite mud tire that generally wears evenly. They are a great “all terrain” tire.

Some of the best "Mud" tires fail in certain types of mud. Asking for an AT thats good in mud is like asking a hooker to cook a gourmet meal.

Looks like northern Nevada mud. Sticks to everything and boots do end up getting heavier with each step.. For that kind of mud, you need a true mud tire like the toyo or super swamper. BFG's were alright in it, but sometimes the bigger lugs of the original super swampers and thornbirds were better. I use goodyear durratracks on my Taco and they work well enough in the light mud we have around here. They are very similar to the Kelly safari TSR's.

I've had mud pack tight enough under a bike fender to lock up the tire. I had to clean it out with a screwdriver to even move. That's why real dirt bikes have the fenders a foot above the tire.

I’ve run a few sets of Cooper STT MAXX and I’m on my 2nd set of STT Pros. All of the tires have been on Ram 3500 with a Cummins. Aired up to 75-80 pounds they’ve been okay till it starts getting nasty. Air them down to 25 pounds and my truck moves around like it supposed to. Both of them have a little him on the road compared to the highway’ish tires that come on the trucks.

Whoever said tires were a compromise was spot on. My trucks are used to pull trailers and move around hunting units so I air on the side of more aggressive tires. I get about 50k per set but the last 10k they’re pretty slim on solid traction but still better than the highway tires the trucks come with.

It'll be 2 to 3 years before I need new ones. I wonder what the recommendations will be then.

LMAO, I’m going to use that one around the boys :-)

TOYO OPEN COUNTRY MT

Decent but not an AT tire.

Had pretty good luck with the Toyo Open Country RT in mud on my last truck. They bridge the gap between the AT and MT pretty well. Truck I just got has some KO2's on them, not to ild about them, but they are almost new, so I'll rum em until I gotta replace them...

BFG AT rode nice on the road, decent offroad while fairly new.
Worn out by 30K.

Much prefer the Goodyear MTR. Noisier but not horrible. Not as good when wet on pavement.
But a solid champ offroad and got 40K per set (orig version and newer).

Think one should buy an SUV for DD and one for hunting. Road and mud tires, no in between.

Then here in the N we need 2 cars and 4 sets of tires. Once mid Nov-early Dec rolls around up here, MT's suck on the hard-packed snow and ice that covers our roads for 4-5Mo so you really should have snows, or at least a Mountain Snowflake rated AT.

Horse1,
Yah the all terrain with a three peak snowflake rating is the way to go, value wise. One set of tires for all season here in Alaska.

BFG AT, Goodyear Duratrac and Falken AT3W all have it. Of those three, the Duratracs are the best in mud. Falken are ok, but mine are made in Taiwan.

BFG AT ko2, though good on ice and snow, are terrible in the mud. With front and rear differential lockers engaged on an 80 series landcruiser, they still sucked on my muddy road that has no state service. Could barely get out even with lockers in spring.

I used to have those on a full sized Blazer. When this desert soil gets wet, it gets really greasy. Normally you won't sink too deep but you'll spin all over the place. I wasn't too impressed with them either.

I had good AT tires on our suburban that did really well on packed snow and ice. The problem with them is when the snow gets deep. They struggle or have gotten us stuck when the snow is deep. We have 2 miles of gravel county road to get to the highway and that is rarely plowed. I went to Firestone Destination MTs that were siped to get down the road when snow is deep. Once we get to the highway the siping helps with the ice and snowpacked roads plus auto 4

Nothing like a tire thread. 🍻

Some vehicles these days don't have enough room for front chains. I run narrower than stock tires on my pickup just for that reason. With stock tires, I can only use those thin car chains. With narrower tires, I can use any kind of chains. That said, in 8 years since I bought it, I've never had to chain the front.

All DOT approved tires won't pull worth a crap in gumbo mud, marl or baby yellow. Chains are a must have for anyone who ventures off road.

Nitto Exo Grapplers outperform the BFG KO2 and DuraTracs on a 3/4Tn truck in slippery (ice/snow) and muddy conditions.

Chain a 4wd in snow/ice and it's amazing how good you can get around.

Even just the front end makes a hell of a difference just dont try to set any speed records.

If ya got the clearance on body parts......

this is the way to go in mud

Utah mud.......as most others.....

Chains........

If you don't have the clearance on the front of a 4x4 and you chain up the back; do you run in 4 wheel drive???

Sure seems like you'd be putting a lot of bind/chattering into the system. Sometimes you do what you've gotta do, but, I sure wouldn't do it often or for very far. YMMV

I there is enough snow, ice or mud to need chains you will get enough tire slippage/spin at each individual tire that binding should not be a problem.

I have had Coopers on my 2002 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4 since I got wise and got rid of the Firestone POSs that came on it. I have been in mud in New Mexico, Wyoming, Arizona and here in CA and the Coopers have done well. They clean out while driving, throwing mud everywhere. I bought the truck new and it is used mainly for hunting and occasionally for towing our toy hauler. I think this is my third set. I live in the high desert near the Mojave Preserve and the truck gets out there, rain or shine or snow.