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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
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People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive. - Blaise Pascal
And then they go looking for reasons to substantiate their belief.
This likely applies to one’s ‘rejection of’ the existence of God...as well as one’s ‘belief in’ the existence of God.
Thomas Nagel is a professor at New York University who teaches philosophy and law, and he’s an atheist. And as an atheist he makes an extraordinary confession...he didn’t just come to the conclusion based on the data...he said:
“I ‘want’ atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers.” - Thomas Nagel
“It isn’t just that I don’t believe in God and, naturally, ‘hope’ that I’m right in my belief. I don’t ‘want’ there to be a God; I don’t ‘want’ the universe
[quote=antlers]People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive. - Blaise Pascal
And then they go looking for reasons to substantiate their belief.
This likely applies to one’s ‘rejection of’ the existence of God...as well as one’s ‘belief in’ the existence of God.
Thomas Nagel is a professor at New York University who teaches philosophy and law, and he’s an atheist. And as an atheist he makes an extraordinary confession...he didn’t just come to the conclusion based on the data...he said:
“I ‘want’ atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers.” - Thomas Nagel
“It isn’t just that I don’t believe in God and, naturally, ‘hope’ that I’m right in my belief. I don’t ‘want’ there to be a God; I don’t ‘want’ the universe to be like that.” - Thomas Nagel
There’s clearly a difference between “I *don’t* believe it” and “I don’t *want* to believe it”.
Atheism is not a belief, it's a lack of conviction based on insufficient evidence to form a conviction. Just like most people are not convinced in the existence of Zeus or Odin and all the gods that people once believed in.
Last edited by DBT; 02/18/20.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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You are the arrogant one. You're too gutless to start your own thread, "Why are you not Christian", because you are afraid we, who you call arrogant, wouldn't be arrogant asswholes, like you, and we wouldnt show up to crap on your BS and you would thus prove you're a liar and we arent arrogant.
Go ahead. Try it.
There are plenty of unbelievers on the Fire, yet only a few of you arrogant asswholes show your ass on a believers thread.
You're no better than the commie liebs who show up at public forums to prevent event scheduled conservatives from being able to speak.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4 |
A right royal set up to fail in the full knowledge of what would happen....then blame and punish the two naive innocents for their inevitable failure, a failure planned from the beginning. Set the whole thing up so He could send His Son to a time and place where asses were wiped with bare hands, there were no antibiotics or indoor plumbing, so that He could suffer for those who hated Him & die a humiliating and excruciating death for sins He did not commit. Dang God sure pulled one over on us with this Christianity thing. You have every right to point out how ridiculous our religious claims are. I have no issue with that I’d sooner die than see it otherwise. But please... do so in the context of the whole story. I just contextualized it. You don’t have to believe the story, but that is the whole story. Your context is false. You fail to take so many things into account that it's ridiculous. I'll just say that this hypothetical, omniscient/omnipotent God could have done a better job of it from the beginning. And please, don't appeal to free will.....you know very well that children cannot make reliable life choices for a reason.....think about it. Truly you are an arrogant individual. You couldn't create a multi-billion dollar business and live for 200 years and yet you think you can do a better job for all of history. You are special! I'm not the arrogant one abusing others because they question beliefs and point out problems, in other words, discussing the issues and not attacking an opponent. That is you and your group. The context was wrong because the context described in genesis tells us that God placed two naive individuals, not having knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, in the garden with a cunning Serpent in the full knowledge of what would happen....and it was only upon eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they knew what they had done. That clearly is the context because that is the story line. But it gets worse. This is the "Original Sin", that could only be washed away by the blood sacrifice, where God comes to the earth as human, to sacrifice himself, to himself, to create a loop hole for the sin he placed upon all human when he tricked them before they possessed the knowledge of good and evil.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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One of the reasons I'm a Christian is because I prefer civilization as opposed to your uncivilized Babylonian babble.
That's rich.....considering your continuous uncivilized Babylonian babble: You are the arrogant one. You're too gutless to start your own thread, "Why are you not Christian", because you are afraid we, who you call arrogant, wouldn't be arrogant asswholes, like you, and we wouldnt show up to crap on your BS and you would thus prove you're a liar and we arent arrogant.
Go ahead. Try it.
There are plenty of unbelievers on the Fire, yet only a few of you arrogant asswholes show your ass on a believers thread.
You're no better than the commie liebs who show up at public forums to prevent event scheduled conservatives from being able to speak.
You are the most uncivilized creature participating in this discussion.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,859
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
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People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive. - Blaise Pascal
There’s clearly a difference between “I *don’t* believe it” and “I don’t *want* to believe it”.
I can agree with this. But, it has to do both ways doesn't it? Some don't want to believe, but some do want to. Definitely some people don't want there to be a God, for whatever reason, but definitely some people do want there to be one, mostly as a hope for afterlife and advantages in this life. I do believe that there are also those who do want to believe and can't, and those who wish they didn't but they do. I just wonder how much of it you really get to decide.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2011
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The trouble is that in a nutshell religion has a core of arrogance and leads to bad things (hatred, discrimination etc). Non believers are offended by the arrogance and jump on the religious postings - life is short - don't poo in the pool because god said it'll save your soul
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
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One of the reasons I'm a Christian is because I prefer civilization as opposed to your uncivilized Babylonian babble.
That's rich.....considering your continuous uncivilized Babylonian babble: You are the arrogant one. You're too gutless to start your own thread, "Why are you not Christian", because you are afraid we, who you call arrogant, wouldn't be arrogant asswholes, like you, and we wouldnt show up to crap on your BS and you would thus prove you're a liar and we arent arrogant.
Go ahead. Try it.
There are plenty of unbelievers on the Fire, yet only a few of you arrogant asswholes show your ass on a believers thread.
You're no better than the commie liebs who show up at public forums to prevent event scheduled conservatives from being able to speak.
You are the most uncivilized creature participating in this discussion. I, and other believers, were asked why we believe. I was invited into this thread. What's your excuse? Oh, yes, doing the christian thing and enlightening us with the bad news. God bless you. You're so benevolent.
Last edited by jaguartx; 02/18/20.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4 |
One of the reasons I'm a Christian is because I prefer civilization as opposed to your uncivilized Babylonian babble.
That's rich.....considering your continuous uncivilized Babylonian babble: You are the arrogant one. You're too gutless to start your own thread, "Why are you not Christian", because you are afraid we, who you call arrogant, wouldn't be arrogant asswholes, like you, and we wouldnt show up to crap on your BS and you would thus prove you're a liar and we arent arrogant.
Go ahead. Try it.
There are plenty of unbelievers on the Fire, yet only a few of you arrogant asswholes show your ass on a believers thread.
You're no better than the commie liebs who show up at public forums to prevent event scheduled conservatives from being able to speak.
You are the most uncivilized creature participating in this discussion. I, and other believers, were asked why we believe. I was invited into this thread. What's your excuse? Oh, yes, doing the christian thing and enlightening us with the bad news. God bless you. You're so benevolent. Is this how you are trying to excuse your bad behavior?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,800 Likes: 4 |
Calling a spade a spade? Yeah, leftists say Trump is a meany too.
Tell us about bad behavior and how mean I am while you roast in hell.
Last edited by jaguartx; 02/18/20.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,701
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2019
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Do animals other than humans go to heaven? What about hell?
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,800 Likes: 4 |
Why dont you ask God? Oh, He wont answer that for you? I wonder why.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,804 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2011
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Everything goes to the same place - we die and that's it. Make the most of life, don't waste time on an insurance policy that doesn't exist - you'll be a better person for it.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Is this how you are trying to excuse your bad behavior?
It is the duty of christians to pull into line fellow church members like jX who are off the rails...yet the CF christians don't seem the least bit interested or just too cowardly.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4 |
Why dont you ask God? Oh, He wont answer that for you? I wonder why. Because he doesn't exist?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,076 Likes: 22
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,076 Likes: 22 |
God, Christ Jesus, not only exits, He lives.
It is good to have a civil discourse on the topic, thank you for the serious replies.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,800 Likes: 4 |
Why dont you ask God? Oh, He wont answer that for you? I wonder why. Because he doesn't exist? If you believe that, then you should get the clue. You arent a Christian. You're on the wrong thread-again.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,663 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,663 Likes: 5 |
I'm not the arrogant one abusing others because they question beliefs and point out problems, in other words, discussing the issues and not attacking an opponent. That is you and your group.
The context was wrong because the context described in genesis tells us that God placed two naive individuals, not having knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, in the garden with a cunning Serpent in the full knowledge of what would happen....and it was only upon eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they knew what they had done.
That clearly is the context because that is the story line.
I haven’t been arrogant; I hope I haven’t come across as such. As a matter of fact if there were a few I could share a camp with from the fire here as I have some Antelope Sniper would be toward the top of the list. The problem with your “context was wrong” comment was that I never even tried to dispute your interpretation of the Genesis narrative. All I did was complete the story showing Gods gracious plan.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4 |
It's a ruthless Boss who throws people into Hell for their beliefs or their lack of conviction. Reason would say: convince the person, not torture them. Yes, among other important qualities - ruthless - you got it. Whose reason? Human reason, or the reason of the Almighty? Evening CCCC, I hope you are holding up well against the high NM winter and your crazy state legislature. As for human vs. supernatural reasoning, we known human reasoning exists, and so far, none of the theist here have prevented sufficient evidence supporting a position regarding the existence of a supernatural being capable of reasoning. Until such time, the only reasoning we know to have at our disposal is the human kind. Sure it's not perfect, but it's the best we have.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,663 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,663 Likes: 5 |
Everything goes to the same place - we die and that's it. Make the most of life, don't waste time on an insurance policy that doesn't exist - you'll be a better person for it. Never wasted time. Not an insurance policy. I am a better person for believing what I believe both here & in eternity. All by God’s grace.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,875 Likes: 1 |
A right royal set up to fail in the full knowledge of what would happen....then blame and punish the two naive innocents for their inevitable failure, a failure planned from the beginning. Set the whole thing up so He could send His Son to a time and place where asses were wiped with bare hands, there were no antibiotics or indoor plumbing, so that He could suffer for those who hated Him & die a humiliating and excruciating death for sins He did not commit. Dang God sure pulled one over on us with this Christianity thing. You have every right to point out how ridiculous our religious claims are. I have no issue with that I’d sooner die than see it otherwise. But please... do so in the context of the whole story. I just contextualized it. You don’t have to believe the story, but that is the whole story. Your context is false. You fail to take so many things into account that it's ridiculous. I'll just say that this hypothetical, omniscient/omnipotent God could have done a better job of it from the beginning. And please, don't appeal to free will.....you know very well that children cannot make reliable life choices for a reason.....think about it. Truly you are an arrogant individual. You couldn't create a multi-billion dollar business and live for 200 years and yet you think you can do a better job for all of history. You are special! I'm not the arrogant one abusing others because they question beliefs and point out problems, in other words, discussing the issues and not attacking an opponent. That is you and your group. The context was wrong because the context described in genesis tells us that God placed two naive individuals, not having knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, in the garden with a cunning Serpent in the full knowledge of what would happen....and it was only upon eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they knew what they had done. That clearly is the context because that is the story line. You still claimed God made a mistake. That is thinking you know more than The Creator. If you read the rest of the Bible you discover only one was naive. You are among the most naive people. You think nothing made everything, not realizing nothing is, well, nothing and does nothing.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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