|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958 |
I'm not the arrogant one abusing others because they question beliefs and point out problems, in other words, discussing the issues and not attacking an opponent. That is you and your group.
The context was wrong because the context described in genesis tells us that God placed two naive individuals, not having knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, in the garden with a cunning Serpent in the full knowledge of what would happen....and it was only upon eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they knew what they had done.
That clearly is the context because that is the story line.
I haven’t been arrogant; I hope I haven’t come across as such. As a matter of fact if there were a few I could share a camp with from the fire here as I have some Antelope Sniper would be toward the top of the list. The problem with your “context was wrong” comment was that I never even tried to dispute your interpretation of the Genesis narrative. All I did was complete the story showing Gods gracious plan. Fair enough....but I would question the idea that it is a gracious plan to set up a naive couple to fail, knowing that they would fail, blaming them for their inadequacy and failure, then punishing not only them but the whole world for it. How this could be described as gracious is a mystery to me. And I have to imagine that a God as great as EFW contends would have produced a much better plan.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,089
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,089 |
Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist?
If our God is fictional, why are you and your atheist buds treating Him as real? You’re giving lots of time and attention to malign our very real sovereign God, who to you doesn’t even exist. How do these untrue beliefs affect the actions of the believers in this world and lead to sub-optimal outcomes? Your defense has a hallow ring. There have been plenty of suboptimal outcomes by atheists who favored a godless universe. You cleverly focus on the worst in belief in God and cleverly ignore the worst in disbelief of God. Hollow rhetoric. You are still treating God as real, but your hatred of Him bleeds through your tiring rhetoric.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958 |
I'm not the arrogant one abusing others because they question beliefs and point out problems, in other words, discussing the issues and not attacking an opponent. That is you and your group.
The context was wrong because the context described in genesis tells us that God placed two naive individuals, not having knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, in the garden with a cunning Serpent in the full knowledge of what would happen....and it was only upon eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they knew what they had done.
That clearly is the context because that is the story line.
I haven’t been arrogant; I hope I haven’t come across as such. As a matter of fact if there were a few I could share a camp with from the fire here as I have some Antelope Sniper would be toward the top of the list. The problem with your “context was wrong” comment was that I never even tried to dispute your interpretation of the Genesis narrative. All I did was complete the story showing Gods gracious plan. Fair enough....but I would question the idea that it is a gracious plan to set up a naive couple to fail, knowing that they would fail, blaming them for their inadequacy and failure, then punishing not only them but the whole world for it. How this could be described as gracious is a mystery to me. In His grace He did not kill them and start over. I am sure they would agree. No, According your bible, he just flooded the entire world, murdering every human, except eight, so in this portrayal, he's not exactly gracious.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,627
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,627 |
I'm not the arrogant one abusing others because they question beliefs and point out problems, in other words, discussing the issues and not attacking an opponent. That is you and your group.
The context was wrong because the context described in genesis tells us that God placed two naive individuals, not having knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, in the garden with a cunning Serpent in the full knowledge of what would happen....and it was only upon eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they knew what they had done.
That clearly is the context because that is the story line.
I haven’t been arrogant; I hope I haven’t come across as such. As a matter of fact if there were a few I could share a camp with from the fire here as I have some Antelope Sniper would be toward the top of the list. The problem with your “context was wrong” comment was that I never even tried to dispute your interpretation of the Genesis narrative. All I did was complete the story showing Gods gracious plan. Fair enough....but I would question the idea that it is a gracious plan to set up a naive couple to fail, knowing that they would fail, blaming them for their inadequacy and failure, then punishing not only them but the whole world for it. How this could be described as gracious is a mystery to me. In His grace He did not kill them and start over. I am sure they would agree. Kill them on top of setting them up to fail and laying the blame on them? The latter is bad enough. There is no grace to be seen any way you look at it....unless some special definition of 'grace' is being used? This and more is why the Gnostics relegated the bible god to evil demiurge status
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,658
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,658 |
I'm not the arrogant one abusing others because they question beliefs and point out problems, in other words, discussing the issues and not attacking an opponent. That is you and your group.
The context was wrong because the context described in genesis tells us that God placed two naive individuals, not having knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, in the garden with a cunning Serpent in the full knowledge of what would happen....and it was only upon eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they knew what they had done.
That clearly is the context because that is the story line.
I haven’t been arrogant; I hope I haven’t come across as such. As a matter of fact if there were a few I could share a camp with from the fire here as I have some Antelope Sniper would be toward the top of the list. The problem with your “context was wrong” comment was that I never even tried to dispute your interpretation of the Genesis narrative. All I did was complete the story showing Gods gracious plan. Fair enough....but I would question the idea that it is a gracious plan to set up a naive couple to fail, knowing that they would fail, blaming them for their inadequacy and failure, then punishing not only them but the whole world for it. How this could be described as gracious is a mystery to me. And I have to imagine that a God as great as EFW contends would have produced a much better plan. Yer right. Darn. Ifin He had jus Ben near smart as u.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,800
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,800 |
Irrespective of the religious beliefs of the past, god wasn't involved because he doesn't exist.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958 |
Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist?
If our God is fictional, why are you and your atheist buds treating Him as real? You’re giving lots of time and attention to malign our very real sovereign God, who to you doesn’t even exist. How do these untrue beliefs affect the actions of the believers in this world and lead to sub-optimal outcomes? Your defense has a hallow ring. There have been plenty of suboptimal outcomes by atheists who favored a godless universe. You cleverly focus on the worst in belief in God and cleverly ignore the worst in disbelief of God. Hollow rhetoric. You are still treating God as real, but your hatred of Him bleeds through your tiring rhetoric. And I regular speak out against the evils of Mao, Stalin and the Post-Modern Marxist and political left. There is much in their beliefs that's untrue adn prdouces "sub-optimal" outcomes. Just because someone holds true believes on the subject of the supernatural, that doesn't mean their beliefs are harmless in other aspects.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,627
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,627 |
...
Last edited by DBT; 02/18/20.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958 |
I'm not the arrogant one abusing others because they question beliefs and point out problems, in other words, discussing the issues and not attacking an opponent. That is you and your group.
The context was wrong because the context described in genesis tells us that God placed two naive individuals, not having knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, in the garden with a cunning Serpent in the full knowledge of what would happen....and it was only upon eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they knew what they had done.
That clearly is the context because that is the story line.
I haven’t been arrogant; I hope I haven’t come across as such. As a matter of fact if there were a few I could share a camp with from the fire here as I have some Antelope Sniper would be toward the top of the list. The problem with your “context was wrong” comment was that I never even tried to dispute your interpretation of the Genesis narrative. All I did was complete the story showing Gods gracious plan. Fair enough....but I would question the idea that it is a gracious plan to set up a naive couple to fail, knowing that they would fail, blaming them for their inadequacy and failure, then punishing not only them but the whole world for it. How this could be described as gracious is a mystery to me. In His grace He did not kill them and start over. I am sure they would agree. Kill them on top of setting them up to fail and laying the blame on them? The latter is bad enough. There is no grace to be seen any way you look at it....unless some special definition of 'grace' is being used? This and more is why the Gnostics relegated the bible god to evil demiurge status Yep. It's why Marcion believed Jesus couldn't possibly be an extension of the god of the OT, but was a completely different being.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,627
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,627 |
It's not what I say, the bible tells us that God regretted creating the world, which implies a mistake...just before He is said to have drowned the whole world, guilty and innocent alike.
Liar. I would explain how and why He saved us with that flood, but not to a stone. Any believers who wish to know may feel free to PM me. PS, it's pretty well spelled out in the Bible, but your eyes are covered with scales for a reason. If you ever wish to have them removed, talk to HIM. It's not my business to do. Please seek help. Your manner of response suggests that there are serious underlying emotional issues. I'm being serious.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,089
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,089 |
Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist?
If our God is fictional, why are you and your atheist buds treating Him as real? You’re giving lots of time and attention to malign our very real sovereign God, who to you doesn’t even exist. How do these untrue beliefs affect the actions of the believers in this world and lead to sub-optimal outcomes? Prove they’re untrue. Where’s your evidence? How about you prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist? By your standard, you MUST believe all of these exist until you can PROVE they don't. This is why in logic, the burden of proof belongs to the party making the positive claim. You claim some supernatural being exists. Define it, and lets see what you have for evidence. Evidence doesn’t make it self-evident. Evidence depends upon interpretation and predisposition of evidence. We have predisposed dispositions that enable us to trust our cognitive abilities as sources of evidence. Parroting “not enough evidence” is a sham. You have been given plenty of evidence from the world God created. The world reflects the glory of God. Because of your smug intellectual arrogance, you have chosen to morally suppress that evidence. “The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them. For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are CLEARLY seen, being understood by the things that are made, even this eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.” Romans 1:18-20 Scripture says there are no real atheists, but atheists say there is no real God.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958 |
Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist?
If our God is fictional, why are you and your atheist buds treating Him as real? You’re giving lots of time and attention to malign our very real sovereign God, who to you doesn’t even exist. How do these untrue beliefs affect the actions of the believers in this world and lead to sub-optimal outcomes? Prove they’re untrue. Where’s your evidence? How about you prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist? By your standard, you MUST believe all of these exist until you can PROVE they don't. This is why in logic, the burden of proof belongs to the party making the positive claim. You claim some supernatural being exists. Define it, and lets see what you have for evidence. Evidence doesn’t make it self-evident. Evidence depends upon interpretation and predisposition of evidence. We have predisposed dispositions that enable us to trust our cognitive abilities as sources of evidence. Parroting “not enough evidence” is a sham. You have been given plenty of evidence from the world God created. The world reflects the glory of God. Because of your smug intellectual arrogance, you have chosen to morally suppress that evidence. “The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them. For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are CLEARLY seen, being understood by the things that are made, even this eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.” Romans 1:18-20 Scripture says there are no real atheists, but atheists say there is no real God. Quoting the Bible to prove the Bible is called "Circular Reasoning". It's a logical fallacy. Claiming "The world reflect the glory of God", while providing no support for the claim is called a Bald Assertion, another logical fallacy. Requiring extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims is not a "sham", it's a proper application of practical Skepticism. Now I ask you again to prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,658
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,658 |
Quoting Lucifer to prove ....
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,658
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,658 |
Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist?
If our God is fictional, why are you and your atheist buds treating Him as real? You’re giving lots of time and attention to malign our very real sovereign God, who to you doesn’t even exist. How do these untrue beliefs affect the actions of the believers in this world and lead to sub-optimal outcomes? Prove they’re untrue. Where’s your evidence? How about you prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist? By your standard, you MUST believe all of these exist until you can PROVE they don't. This is why in logic, the burden of proof belongs to the party making the positive claim. You claim some supernatural being exists. Define it, and lets see what you have for evidence. Evidence doesn’t make it self-evident. Evidence depends upon interpretation and predisposition of evidence. We have predisposed dispositions that enable us to trust our cognitive abilities as sources of evidence. Parroting “not enough evidence” is a sham. You have been given plenty of evidence from the world God created. The world reflects the glory of God. Because of your smug intellectual arrogance, you have chosen to morally suppress that evidence. “The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them. For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are CLEARLY seen, being understood by the things that are made, even this eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.” Romans 1:18-20 Scripture says there are no real atheists, but atheists say there is no real God. Quoting the Bible to prove the Bible is called "Circular Reasoning". It's a logical fallacy. Claiming "The world reflect the glory of God", while providing no support for the claim is called a Bald Assertion, another logical fallacy. Requiring extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims is not a "sham", it's a proper application of practical Skepticism. Now I ask you again to prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist. The thread was about Christian's, not skeptics, dumbass.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958 |
Quoting Lucifer to prove .... Doc, Nobody here is quoting Lucifer. Are you hearing voices? Are you off your Thorazine again?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958 |
The thread was about Christian's, not skeptics, dumbass. Such a good Christian response. You are such a good representation of the results of believing in your god.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,285
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,285 |
How many christians have we thrown to the lions by now?
I get a kick when someone asks, "What would happen if we all stopped responding to the trolls?" then these threads go on forever, fighting about something non-believers don't have the tools (the Holy Spirit) to understand. No offense intended to the non-believers, but you simply don't know what you don't know, nor can you until it is revealed to you, through your own earnest desire to know the truth, which you lack.
It's a vicious circle!
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,658
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,658 |
Tell us again about the explosion that blew up a bunch of schiett that resulted in monkeys and you.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,341
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,341 |
Can this non-christian make an "appeal to ignorance"? An appeal to faith?
Remember why, specifically, the Bill of Rights was written...remember its purpose. It was written to limit the power of government over the individual.
There is no believing a liar, even when he speaks the truth.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,958 |
How many christians have we thrown to the lions by now? None. But we have one we are trying to save. It appears he really could use some professional help.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
651 members (10gaugeman, 160user, 10gaugemag, 06hunter59, 10ring1, 007FJ, 77 invisible),
2,692
guests, and
1,321
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,477
Posts18,471,652
Members73,936
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
