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How many christians have we thrown to the lions by now? None. But we have one we are trying to save. It appears he really could use some professional help. Maybe try treating him courteously. He is the one lashing out, and not because anyone is treating him badly. He just cannot tolerate having his beliefs questioned.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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. One has to wonder how many Christians, on here and elsewhere, need or should attend to a person telling them what they should be concerned about with regard to their beliefs.
Christians find it their business to be God botherers the world over, Going about telling non christians that their Gods are false and that they need to find Jesus. I hope this does not surprise you. It is every true Christians desire that everyone will find Christ And it's every true Muslims desire that everyone will find Muhammad.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Oracle
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Hahaha. Lying suckers cant stand to have someone ask why they are a Christian and answer even if they are going to hell in a handbasket. Tff.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist?
If our God is fictional, why are you and your atheist buds treating Him as real? You’re giving lots of time and attention to malign our very real sovereign God, who to you doesn’t even exist. How do these untrue beliefs affect the actions of the believers in this world and lead to sub-optimal outcomes? Prove they’re untrue. Where’s your evidence? How about you prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist? By your standard, you MUST believe all of these exist until you can PROVE they don't. This is why in logic, the burden of proof belongs to the party making the positive claim. You claim some supernatural being exists. Define it, and lets see what you have for evidence. Evidence doesn’t make it self-evident. Evidence depends upon interpretation and predisposition of evidence. We have predisposed dispositions that enable us to trust our cognitive abilities as sources of evidence. Parroting “not enough evidence” is a sham. You have been given plenty of evidence from the world God created. The world reflects the glory of God. Because of your smug intellectual arrogance, you have chosen to morally suppress that evidence. “The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them. For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are CLEARLY seen, being understood by the things that are made, even this eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.” Romans 1:18-20 Scripture says there are no real atheists, but atheists say there is no real God. Nobody questions the existence of the Sun, Moon, Planets, trees, houses, rivers, lakes, etc, etc, because there is ample evidence for these things. Our cognitive abilities are being constantly tested against the external objective world....whether you believe or do not believe that there is a tree in your path won't change the fact of the existence of the tree.....you can believe that you can walk through the tree, or that its not there, but you'll come up hard against it regardless of your belief. The same cannot be said for the gods. If they exist, they hide their reality so well that it's exactly like they don't exist.
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Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist?
If our God is fictional, why are you and your atheist buds treating Him as real? You’re giving lots of time and attention to malign our very real sovereign God, who to you doesn’t even exist. How do these untrue beliefs affect the actions of the believers in this world and lead to sub-optimal outcomes? Prove they’re untrue. Where’s your evidence? How about you prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist? By your standard, you MUST believe all of these exist until you can PROVE they don't. This is why in logic, the burden of proof belongs to the party making the positive claim. You claim some supernatural being exists. Define it, and lets see what you have for evidence. Evidence doesn’t make it self-evident. Evidence depends upon interpretation and predisposition of evidence. We have predisposed dispositions that enable us to trust our cognitive abilities as sources of evidence. Parroting “not enough evidence” is a sham. You have been given plenty of evidence from the world God created. The world reflects the glory of God. Because of your smug intellectual arrogance, you have chosen to morally suppress that evidence. “The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them. For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are CLEARLY seen, being understood by the things that are made, even this eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.” Romans 1:18-20 Scripture says there are no real atheists, but atheists say there is no real God. Quoting the Bible to prove the Bible is called "Circular Reasoning". It's a logical fallacy. Claiming "The world reflect the glory of God", while providing no support for the claim is called a Bald Assertion, another logical fallacy. Requiring extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims is not a "sham", it's a proper application of practical Skepticism. Now I ask you again to prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist. Nice deflection, but your position is intellectually indefensible. Disproving evidence for God is not proof there is no God. You claim there is no God, but there is no evidence (that there is no God); therefore, you believe that by faith (like believers). There is no proof of God’s nonexistence, thank God. Demanding proof of God would require that a person know all evidence of the existence of God and know ALL things. One would have to be in all places of our huge universe. If you could do that, A Sniper, YOU would be God. Even IF you had good, hard evidence, your scientism and intellectual ego would not allow you to accept it. Plus, your existing presuppositions are in opposition to the existence of our glorious supreme God. In order for you to accept ANY evidence, you have to change your presuppositional base that there is no God. And therein lies the problems with atheists. Quite the sad conundrum it is for you folks. You would need a major shift in your belief system and remove your presuppositional hostility and arrogance to any evidence for the existence of our Almighty God. The only true god in an atheist’s world is the atheist. P.S. You really must work on that smug intellectual arrogance. It gives atheists a bad rap. Nope. I claim that no theist has met their burden of proof. That's not the same think and claiming there is no god. Additionally, read my posts more carefully. I don't ask for proof. I ask for good evidence. Asking for "proof" can in and of itself be a "Red Herring" fallacy, because it's often used in a way that implies "proof beyond doubt". Heck even Richard Dawkins doesn't claim to know there is not god(s) beyond a shadow of a doubt. On a scale of 1 to 7 he claims to be 6.5 on his level of certainty that no god(s) exist. There's also a few dishonest tactics theist tend to use in conjunction with to what you are trying to do, i.e. "shifting the burden of proof". Next they will "move the goal posts", by changing their definition of god(s). Consequently it's important to carefully define any god before one can take up the anti-theist position that a specific god does not exist. As for the initial state of my presuppositions, once again you are totally wrong. My Journey began with 1st Peter 3:15: 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in you hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Unfortunately I could find no evidence that met scrutiny. I was promised much but in the end, those who claimed to have evidence abandoned their claims of evidence and plead their case on the basis of Faith, which we see in this thread as well. But if you have some real evidence (notice I did not say "proof") let's here it. I'm open to hear what you believe and why you belief it, and why you belief your claims meet their burden of proof. No, the “theist” has no burden of proof. See my post of a couple of days ago. We are called to witness. We cannot “prove” or “convince” you of,the truth of God. The Holy Spirit is the one who calls..... but, you can indeed refuse the gift. You are accountable to God and God alone. As I said, God will not hold me accountable for “failing to convince you.” There are those who will stand before the Lord. Could be that He then tells you of all the times he called but you refused to answer. This is not a threat, a simple warning.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Copy from a Monday TF post:
For AS, in case he missed it:
AS,
Please know that it is not a Christian duty or responsibility to convince you about the reality of God and the reality of Jesus and the gift. Folks such as I can point the way ..... explain little or much depending upon the “ears” that hear us....hold you up in prayer before the Father... so on and so forth ...But, it is the Holy Spirit of God .... not me or others.....that shows the clear and weighty truth to the honest seeker of God.
God will not hold me responsible for your eternal destiny. That is between you and God.
Those that have ears to hear, will indeed hear. Those that “stick their own fingers in their ears” ..... for whatever reason they do.... those are the ones that will not hear and not believe and who have not yet received the gift.
Also....There has been much talk about evidence or “proof.” There is proof. As, I have previously related, God spoke to me..... God proved Himself to me. I related that experience on this Forum.
I have proof and you don’t. Our differences may be as simple as that. Seek the proof.... it is there.
Btw....regarding “threat” ....... when one recognizes an “indication of impending.....whatever.....trouble, risk or danger....”...... a responsible caring person might warn the one who is at risk. With that thought in mind, yes, I fear for you and am trying to warn you. Others have as well. Kinda like warning someone of a runaway horse headed their way.....”Watch Out!”
Not to say that preaching hellfire is of no value, but it seems to me that simply threatening some one with hellfire will do little good. Sometimes yes, but why would they be afraid of hellfire from a God they place no stock in? Seems that something specific from the Holy Spirit has to have been communicated first. Anyway, that is a digression.
This is your life and a hand has been dealt to you..... play it wisely.
ATB,
TF
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Subjective experience is not evidence. Nobody has access to someone else's experience to be able to verify that it was an interaction with an actual god.
It may have been a lucid dream or vision generated by the brain, and given that these experiences are not that uncommon, it most likely was.
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[quote=WhiteTail48]Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist?
If our God is fictional, why are you and your atheist buds treating Him as real? You’re giving lots of time and attention to malign our very real sovereign God, who to you doesn’t even exist. How do these untrue beliefs affect the actions of the believers in this world and lead to sub-optimal outcomes? Prove they’re untrue. Where’s your evidence? How about you prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist? By your standard, you MUST believe all of these exist until you can PROVE they don't. This is why in logic, the burden of proof belongs to the party making the positive claim. You claim some supernatural being exists. Define it, and lets see what you have for evidence. Evidence doesn’t make it self-evident. Evidence depends upon interpretation and predisposition of evidence. We have predisposed dispositions that enable us to trust our cognitive abilities as sources of evidence. Parroting “not enough evidence” is a sham. You have been given plenty of evidence from the world God created. The world reflects the glory of God. Because of your smug intellectual arrogance, you have chosen to morally suppress that evidence. “The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them. For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are CLEARLY seen, being understood by the things that are made, even this eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.” Romans 1:18-20 Scripture says there are no real atheists, but atheists say there is no real God. Quoting the Bible to prove the Bible is called "Circular Reasoning". It's a logical fallacy. Claiming "The world reflect the glory of God", while providing no support for the claim is called a Bald Assertion, another logical fallacy. Requiring extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims is not a "sham", it's a proper application of practical Skepticism. Now I ask you again to prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist. Nice deflection, but your position is intellectually indefensible. Disproving evidence for God is not proof there is no God. You claim there is no God, but there is no evidence (that there is no God); therefore, you believe that by faith (like believers). There is no proof of God’s nonexistence, thank God. Demanding proof of God would require that a person know all evidence of the existence of God and know ALL things. One would have to be in all places of our huge universe. If you could do that, A Sniper, YOU would be God. Even IF you had good, hard evidence, your scientism and intellectual ego would not allow you to accept it. Plus, your existing presuppositions are in opposition to the existence of our glorious supreme God. In order for you to accept ANY evidence, you have to change your presuppositional base that there is no God. And therein lies the problems with atheists. Quite the sad conundrum it is for you folks. You would need a major shift in your belief system and remove your presuppositional hostility and arrogance to any evidence for the existence of our Almighty God. The only true god in an atheist’s world is the atheist. P.S. You really must work on that smug intellectual arrogance. It gives atheists a bad rap. There are those who will stand before the Lord. Could be that He then tells you of all the times he called but you refused to answer. This is not a threat, a simple warning. How does God call out?
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Campfire Outfitter
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.. Nobody has access to someone else's experience to be able to verify that it was an interaction with an actual god.
Well consider, Christians are immensely gullible to the extent A person can fabricate a story telling the CF they love the Lord, Have the Holy Spirit, and that their prayers work... And they will believe it hook line and sinker. Which begs the question; What insecurities drive such gullible persons of faith to the Extent that they so willingly find pleasure & comfort in being a Fool..?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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He is the one lashing out, and not because anyone is treating him badly. He just cannot tolerate having his beliefs questioned.
Its plain to see jX harbors a schitt load of insecurities and finds it very difficult to cope. But to then think adopting some primitive mythology is going to solve such issues shows how chronic the problems are in many people...Jumping from the fryingpan into the Fire in such manner is pure misguided folly.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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I’ll ask again... do animals other than humans go to heaven or hell? Are they judged the same as humans to go to either, being they are as well gods creatures, and clearly have conscious?
My dog knows when shes done wrong by her obvious reaction when she realizes I witnessed her do something wrong...
So again.... do animals other than humans go to heaven or hell?
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Campfire Ranger
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I’ll ask again... do animals other than humans go to heaven or hell? Are they judged the same as humans to go to either, being they are as well gods creatures, and clearly have conscious?
My dog knows when shes done wrong by her obvious reaction when she realizes I witnessed her do something wrong...
So again.... do animals other than humans go to heaven or hell? Simplified answer..........yes.
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The thread was about Christian's, not skeptics, dumbass. Such a good Christian response. You are such a good representation of the results of believing in your god. Matthew 5:22 ......Whosoever shall say, Thou fool shall be in danger of hellfire. Straight from the mouth of Yeshua. The thing that strikes me most about this thread is how the prophet's followers and friends have been giving him a bad name for centuries. Or at least casting him a bad light that he doesn't deserve. I have friends that take issue when I say I believe Yeshua was who he said he was and that his message was true. My tactic is to not alienate them or tell them they are stupid. Any"Christian" would just about have to admit that the nominal Christian church has created enough mayhem and depravity to strip it completely of respectability. I find this to be a great answer, in particular these 2 sentences.................."My tactic is to not alienate them or tell them they are stupid. Any"Christian" would just about have to admit that the nominal Christian church has created enough mayhem and depravity to strip it completely of respectability."
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I’ll ask again... do animals other than humans go to heaven or hell? Are they judged the same as humans to go to either, being they are as well gods creatures, and clearly have conscious?
My dog knows when shes done wrong by her obvious reaction when she realizes I witnessed her do something wrong...
So again.... do animals other than humans go to heaven or hell? Simplified answer..........yes. What are the defining qualities that decipher which animal goes to which place? What sins does an animal do that sends them to hell... The bible references serpents frequently when discussing satan.... however is a snake not gods creation? Why is a snake different than a lion or tiger or any other predator?
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DBT posted......
How does God call out?
I already addressed that. Go back and read it if you are interested.
Last edited by TF49; 02/19/20.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire Oracle
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The thread was about Christian's, not skeptics, dumbass. Such a good Christian response. You are such a good representation of the results of believing in your god. Matthew 5:22 ......Whosoever shall say, Thou fool shall be in danger of hellfire. Straight from the mouth of Yeshua. The thing that strikes me most about this thread is how the prophet's followers and friends have been giving him a bad name for centuries. Or at least casting him a bad light that he doesn't deserve. I have friends that take issue when I say I believe Yeshua was who he said he was and that his message was true. My tactic is to not alienate them or tell them they are stupid. Any"Christian" would just about have to admit that the nominal Christian church has created enough mayhem and depravity to strip it completely of respectability. I find this to be a great answer, in particular these 2 sentences.................."My tactic is to not alienate them or tell them they are stupid. Any"Christian" would just about have to admit that the nominal Christian church has created enough mayhem and depravity to strip it completely of respectability." With my sins, I am always in danger. It also says the truth shall set you free. All fall short..... Thankfully, it's not the unforgivable sin. 
Last edited by jaguartx; 02/19/20.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Oracle
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I’ll ask again... do animals other than humans go to heaven or hell? Are they judged the same as humans to go to either, being they are as well gods creatures, and clearly have conscious?
My dog knows when shes done wrong by her obvious reaction when she realizes I witnessed her do something wrong...
So again.... do animals other than humans go to heaven or hell? Simplified answer..........yes. What are the defining qualities that decipher which animal goes to which place? What sins does an animal do that sends them to hell... The bible references serpents frequently when discussing satan.... however is a snake not gods creation? Why is a snake different than a lion or tiger or any other predator? Darn. We never thought of that. Genius.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,826 Likes: 9
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I’ll ask again... do animals other than humans go to heaven or hell? Are they judged the same as humans to go to either, being they are as well gods creatures, and clearly have conscious?
My dog knows when shes done wrong by her obvious reaction when she realizes I witnessed her do something wrong...
So again.... do animals other than humans go to heaven or hell? The lion lay down with the lamb.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,826 Likes: 9
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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If a speaker at an event asks the women to all stand, and a man hears and stands with them, that sucker may not be a fool, but he surely is stupid. 
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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