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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Why am I a Christian? Very simple.
Eternity in hell didn't appeal to me a bit, and I knew that I was powerless to escape it by my own efforts.
Eternity in heaven did appeal to me, and I knew I was powerless to get there by my own efforts.
When I trusted what Jesus did for me on Calvary's cross, he took all my sin on himself, and gave me HIS righteousness as a free gift.
As compassionately as I can, a man would have to be mentally retarded to turn down the gift of eternal life in Jesus Christ.
That's WHY! (My apologies to the truly mentally retarded -- no slight intended.) And how did you come to the conclusion that the threats of hell and promises of paradise were true?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Richard, I was reading my Bible. This year in April marks my 38th trip around the sun as a saved man, and I still love that old black backed 66 calibre way more than I love the Campfire even.  Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised, in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion on the sides of the north, the city of the great king. (Psalm 48) Thank you, Lord Jesus, for doing for me what I could never do for myself. Since I see no good evidence for Jesus. I would argue you ARE doing it yourself and should give yourself credit for your.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not to say that preaching hellfire is of no value,
.. but why would they be afraid of hellfire from a God they place no stock in?
What makes you assume such people fear your imaginary hellfire? Why project your irrational fears onto others?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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It seems there are several different kinds of people who don’t believe in God:
A. Those who just don’t believe.
B. Those who don’t believe but want to believe.
C. And those who just don’t ‘want’ to believe.
Again, there is a big difference between “I don’t believe it” and “I don’t ‘want’ to believe it.”
“I don’t ‘want’ to believe it” has to do with will....and want. Did ‘these’ folks decide to not believe because faith got to be inconvenient...? And then, after they decided to not believe, they needed to develop some support for their unbelief. Did their decision to not believe precede the data they’ve collected to support their unbelief...? If their unbelief is around will and want...information will never suffice. Could it be that the real reason they choose to not believe isn’t perhaps the reasons that they give...isn’t perhaps their presenting facts and arguments ...could it be something else...? If they admit God, they’ve got to submit to God..if there’s a God that’s going to hold them accountable, then suddenly they are accountable. Their arguments aren’t arguments, for or against anything...they’re responses. Their resistance and reluctance to acknowledge God...is not an argument...it’s just a response. It explains why they’ve developed their arsenal of arguments. And their arguments against the existence of God came after their decision to not want God. Their intellectual arguments against the existence of God didn’t come first...they came second. For whatever reason...they don’t want God to ‘be’. They don’t want to feel what they might feel. The real issue is their personal resistance, ‘not’ Gods existence. This isn’t about Gods existence, this isn’t about science...this is about their personal resistance.
Humanity has struggled with the submission to God since the beginning of humanity.
‘If’ God...then there’s forgiveness. Our rebellion, our sin, our ‘mistakes’, our wrongdoings...become a platform for God to demonstrate His love for us. He says that He “demonstrates” His own love for us in this...that while we were still sinners, Jesus died for us. God wanted to enter into a relationship with mankind. You can not have a loving relationship with someone you do not sacrifice for; if you do not sacrifice for them - they do not know that you love them. ‘If’ God...then there’s relationship. Antlers, What a finely constructed strawman you have erected only to batter it down. I suspect you could benefit from actually knowing, and actually listening to some atheist. A lot of Atheist deconverted by reading the Bible.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist?
. Your concern should be more about why Christians feel the need to Bend and mold a God into convenient versions of their own personal liking. One has to wonder how many Christians, on here and elsewhere, need or should attend to a person telling them what they should be concerned about with regard to their beliefs. How does one manage to arrogate to himself (or herself) the authority to dictate the concerns of a Christian? Is that a special quality held by non-Christians? Not in this country. That's covered under "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The only power anyone should have over your deeply held foundational beliefs is that of their reason. And, pray tell, why should ANYONE have such power over another persons "deeply held foundational beliefs"?? One piece of strong evidence will be sufficient for a start. Did you fail to understand my point, or are you now against reasoned debate?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Religion would otherwise say the same, oh, and where did god come from? If God exists He has no beginning being Infinite, Intelligent, Energy. It might be a cute question to foolish people but it like asking, "To whom is the bachelor married?" Nobody is claiming that we came from nothing. Apparently you don't understand the theory of evolution. You ever hear of The Big Bang? Nothing became something and that something became intelligent people.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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And Hastings post lines right up with Math 23............" Any"Christian" would just about have to admit that the nominal Christian church has created enough mayhem and depravity to strip it completely of respectability." I wonder who we think Jesus's words were directed at??? I'm sure it couldn't be the Church I attend or the Preacher I follow or have followed, nor any of what I was taught growing up. Nope, it has to be........."they" or "them"......whoever "they/them" are.  I don't know if Hastings was referring to Math. 23 or not, but much of the Christian church corporation teaching falls right into Math. 23. and Jeremiah 23 scriptures. The letters of "Paul" were directed at other Christian Churches.......just saying....
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Although most in this thread have done well in keeping the discussion polite and not jabbing back very hard at those who are prone to attack their beliefs and behaviors as Christians, some seem to have injured the feelings of Starman because he is becoming more and more strident in his nasty speculation about Christians.- to the point of some ad hominum attacks. Can we not rectify this in some way so that he/she is not so aggravated? I just got tried of starman, I put him on ignore. What Wabigoon said a long long time ago when he was here under the screen name Rob Jordan. He's not Rob Jordan. His theology isn't even close to Rob's.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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.. how did you come to the conclusion that the threats of hell and promises of paradise were true? Christians conveying death threats on behalf of their cosmic Mafia boss, dont see them as threats, only friendly caring warnings.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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DBT posted......
How does God call out?
I already addressed that. Go back and read it if you are interested. You expect me to search through all your posts to find something relevant? I may not even recognize what you consider to be "God calling out." No, I don’t expect very much from you at all. The feeling is mutual. I know that God, assuming existence, does not call openly and honestly for all to see and hear, that it is only the believer who feels through interpretation of events, signs or 'hearing' subjective voices in the head, that God is calling to them. It is all about the experience of the believer, how they see things, and not some actual 'God.' How do you explain Muslims, who don't know Jesus, claiming Jesus came to them? How do you explain 1.2 Billion Muslims, and Christians who convert to Islam, or deconvert to athism?
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 02/19/20.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Religion would otherwise say the same, oh, and where did god come from? If God exists He has no beginning being Infinite, Intelligent, Energy. It might be a cute question to foolish people but it like asking, "To whom is the bachelor married?" Nobody is claiming that we came from nothing. Apparently you don't understand the theory of evolution. You ever hear of The Big Bang? Nothing became something and that something became intelligent people. All of this has been explained to you numerous times...did you not read what was said? Perhaps you didn't understand? Does it have to be repeated....only to have the same fallacies raised?
Last edited by DBT; 02/19/20.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Although most in this thread have done well in keeping the discussion polite and not jabbing back very hard at those who are prone to attack their beliefs and behaviors as Christians, some seem to have injured the feelings of Starman because he is becoming more and more strident in his nasty speculation about Christians.- to the point of some ad hominum attacks. Can we not rectify this in some way so that he/she is not so aggravated? I just got tried of starman, I put him on ignore. What Wabigoon said a long long time ago when he was here under the screen name Rob Jordan. Starman can have his say regardless of being on ignore. Being on ignore is not a punishment. Maybe it just shows a level of intolerance in the poster who cannot bear to see dissent. Much of the complaining and ignoring by Christians come from their need to eliminate the cognitive dissonance they experience when reading Starman's post's. For many believer's it's really difficult to handle, so they make up stories about Atheist being "haters" or "In league with Satin", or "they just want to sin", as opposed to addressing the real issues.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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That appears to be the case.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I ask that the Christians provide actual irrefutable Proof that Starman is an atheist. simply disputing Christian mythology does not Automatically make one an atheist. .. they make up stories about Atheist being "haters" or "In league with Satin", or.. Fabricating stories is the easy way out. Conveniently "demonizing" folks is an ages old juvenile ploy.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Ranger
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A lot of Atheist deconverted by reading the Bible. So they “deconverted” because of a book that didn’t even exist when Christianity began...?
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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A lot of Atheist deconverted by reading the Bible. Jesus’ most devout first century followers never owned a Bible, never read a Bible...because there was no Bible to be had or read. But these men and women turned the world upside down; they’re the reason that people worship Jesus today; and they never held a Bible because there was no Bible until the fourth century.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Tracker
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It seems there are several different kinds of people who don’t believe in God:
A. Those who just don’t believe.
B. Those who don’t believe but want to believe.
C. And those who just don’t ‘want’ to believe.
Again, there is a big difference between “I don’t believe it” and “I don’t ‘want’ to believe it.”
“I don’t ‘want’ to believe it” has to do with will....and want. Did ‘these’ folks decide to not believe because faith got to be inconvenient...? And then, after they decided to not believe, they needed to develop some support for their unbelief. Did their decision to not believe precede the data they’ve collected to support their unbelief...? If their unbelief is around will and want...information will never suffice. Could it be that the real reason they choose to not believe isn’t perhaps the reasons that they give...isn’t perhaps their presenting facts and arguments ...could it be something else...? If they admit God, they’ve got to submit to God..if there’s a God that’s going to hold them accountable, then suddenly they are accountable. Their arguments aren’t arguments, for or against anything...they’re responses. Their resistance and reluctance to acknowledge God...is not an argument...it’s just a response. It explains why they’ve developed their arsenal of arguments. And their arguments against the existence of God came after their decision to not want God. Their intellectual arguments against the existence of God didn’t come first...they came second. For whatever reason...they don’t want God to ‘be’. They don’t want to feel what they might feel. The real issue is their personal resistance, ‘not’ Gods existence. This isn’t about Gods existence, this isn’t about science...this is about their personal resistance.
Humanity has struggled with the submission to God since the beginning of humanity.
‘If’ God...then there’s forgiveness. Our rebellion, our sin, our ‘mistakes’, our wrongdoings...become a platform for God to demonstrate His love for us. He says that He “demonstrates” His own love for us in this...that while we were still sinners, Jesus died for us. God wanted to enter into a relationship with mankind. You can not have a loving relationship with someone you do not sacrifice for; if you do not sacrifice for them - they do not know that you love them. ‘If’ God...then there’s relationship. I think much of that is true, but I would narrow it down a bit more. It's not so much that people object to the idea of God, but more that they object to the particular version they are familiar with. If you believe in a God of some sort, you don't necessarily have to believe that we know anything at all about that God, or what he/it might desire. You can certainly understand why certain gods that were widely believed in long ago would be quite unpopular today, and people would be quick to closely examine their mythology and try to determine if they were actually real or not. I don't necessarily think that makes someone a bad person, it seems like the natural thing to do actually.
Last edited by xxclaro; 02/19/20.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Just an average Jew .... Isaiah 53:2-3
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Except Isaiah isn't about Jesus.....
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Tracker
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A lot of Atheist deconverted by reading the Bible. Jesus’ most devout first century followers never owned a Bible, never read a Bible...because there was no Bible to be had or read. But these men and women turned the world upside down; they’re the reason that people worship Jesus today; and they never held a Bible because there was no Bible until the fourth century. Not really, Christianity most likely would have remained a small cult had it not been for Paul's promotional work and Constantine adopting Christianity as his state religion.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Religion would otherwise say the same, oh, and where did god come from? If God exists He has no beginning being Infinite, Intelligent, Energy. It might be a cute question to foolish people but it like asking, "To whom is the bachelor married?" Nobody is claiming that we came from nothing. Apparently you don't understand the theory of evolution. You ever hear of The Big Bang? Nothing became something and that something became intelligent people. No. The question is designed to demonstrate your "special pleading". If actually quite funny. You belief the universe is too complex that it MUST have a creator, then imagine a more complex creator, who didn't require one, so alleged existence would violate your first premise. In other words, it's a self contradictory argument.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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