A lot of highly intelligent people throughout history have been wrong. They have been wrong because they did not have the necessary information or the prevailing beliefs prevented them from seeing what was there.
That’s as much an argument against your position as it is mine.
A lot of highly intelligent people throughout history have been wrong. They have been wrong because they did not have the necessary information or the prevailing beliefs prevented them from seeing what was there.
That’s as much an argument against your position as it is mine.
A lot of highly intelligent people throughout history have been wrong. They have been wrong because they did not have the necessary information or the prevailing beliefs prevented them from seeing what was there.
That’s as much an argument against your position as it is mine.
It was a comment on knowledge being based on verifiable, testable, falsifiable information, not faith. If it can't be tested, how do you know it's true?
What it says in the bible, quran , gita, etc, cannot be tested. It must be taken on faith.
Some people believe in UFO's, but will not believe in an a Creator.
And CF christians have ridiculed Bigfoot believers.
I’ll enjoy running right over you as I head into church tomorrow. . Sunday School too!!!!! Hey.......and we will even discuss missions and how to help folks in need!!!!
I've avoided this thread because I knew it would be a chit show. I read like 5 replies on different pages.
I am a Christian because it makes me feel good to believe in God and that Jesus Christ is our Savior. At your darkest moments, who else do you have to turn to?
The deer hunter does not notice the mountains
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve" - Isoroku Yamamoto
There sure are a lot of America haters that want to live here...
...you can't stand to see someone believe in a higher power.
Nailed it, plain and simple. Period.
No, it's still about evidence and justification, always was and always will be.
For you, maybe quite the case - but that "all about" is a personal human need - or possibly some avoidance behavior. In the course of this thread, some non-believers have attributed a variety of beliefs and behaviors to Christians as a category - and much of that as negative. That behavior has been ineffective. Really, after all, these disagreements are not disagreements between and among humans - the disagreements are clear when one compares what God says with that which is said by non-believing humans. Of course, this cleft is nothing new - it is, at least, centuries old. God endures - the human does not.
...you can't stand to see someone believe in a higher power.
Nailed it, plain and simple. Period.
No, it's still about evidence and justification, always was and always will be.
For you, maybe quite the case - but that "all about" is a personal human need - or possibly some avoidance behavior. In the course of this thread, some non-believers have attributed a variety of beliefs and behaviors to Christians as a category - and much of that as negative. That behavior has been ineffective. Really, after all, these disagreements are not disagreements between and among humans - the disagreements are clear when one compares what God says with that which is said by non-believing humans. Of course, this cleft is nothing new - it is, at least, centuries old. God endures - the human does not.
Before a god can say anything he must exist, for which I see no good evidence.
I see plenty of people, such as yourself, claiming to speak for god(s), so, yea, this is between people.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
...you can't stand to see someone believe in a higher power.
Nailed it, plain and simple. Period.
No, it's still about evidence and justification, always was and always will be.
For you, maybe quite the case - but that "all about" is a personal human need - or possibly some avoidance behavior. In the course of this thread, some non-believers have attributed a variety of beliefs and behaviors to Christians as a category - and much of that as negative. That behavior has been ineffective. Really, after all, these disagreements are not disagreements between and among humans - the disagreements are clear when one compares what God says with that which is said by non-believing humans. Of course, this cleft is nothing new - it is, at least, centuries old. God endures - the human does not.
Human need? It is undeniable that we as humans have needs and wants.
However, no matter how much you may need or want something, that need or want does not alter the reality of the world is or how it works.
Not wanting natural evolution to be true won't change the fact that this is how the world works, life evolves to meet the challenges of the environment.
No matter how much we have a need for a God, our need does not make God a reality.
It is undeniable that we as humans have needs and wants.
However, no matter how much you may need or want something, that need or want does not alter the reality of the world is or how it works. .
Clueless christians needed to find a reason for the viking raid on Lindisfarne 793, so they put it down to 'God's wrath'
Christians again clueless, needed to find reason for the devastating Great Plague,... 'God's wrath'. Oh btw; they also blamed the jews, so they then massacred communities of such; man, woman and child.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
I really have an issue with something coming from nothing and willingly admit there's a huge huge bunch I cannot fathom. I can see that living things adapt to their environment and the survivors keep evolving to the constant change. But that doesn't refute a first creative power that we have no capacity to understand. I'm not sure why a creator would put us in this vale of tears to struggle and suffer but I don't understand a lot of other things either. I believe creation happened eons ago and could easily have been a huge explosive reaction to the concentration of all matter that flung material in unfathomable directions and distance. And now an infinitesimal speck has become spaceship earth and evolved and rearranged itself and its mix of gas liquid and solid into a pretty good self contained unit capable of feeding a large diverse population of flora and fauna. I chose to believe some force did this and would like for his creation to live in harmony and care for and respect the creator and our fellow humans. I don't find it implausible at all that he sent prophets and messengers including The latest and greatest (Jesus) to remind, instruct, and sometimes threaten us, as I'm sure that our behavior could easily become an unbearable stink. A non believer would have to admit that in his unbelief there are lots of things unexplained. I'm sticking with Jesus and mostly ignoring the blather of the Christian church.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
I really have an issue with something coming from nothing and willingly admit there's a huge huge bunch I cannot fathom. I can see that living things adapt to their environment and the survivors keep evolving to the constant change. But that doesn't refute a first creative power that we have no capacity to understand. I'm not sure why a creator would put us in this vale of tears to struggle and suffer but I don't understand a lot of other things either. I believe creation happened eons ago and could easily have been a huge explosive reaction to the concentration of all matter that flung material in unfathomable directions and distance. And now an infinitesimal speck has become spaceship earth and evolved and rearranged itself and its mix of gas liquid and solid into a pretty good self contained unit capable of feeding a large diverse population of flora and fauna. I chose to believe some force did this and would like for his creation to live in harmony and care for and respect the creator and our fellow humans. I don't find it implausible at all that he sent prophets and messengers including The latest and greatest (Jesus) to remind, instruct, and sometimes threaten us, as I'm sure that our behavior could easily become an unbearable stink. A non believer would have to admit that in his unbelief there are lots of things unexplained. I'm sticking with Jesus and mostly ignoring the blather of the Christian church.
What you believe doesn't change reality. What you can't prove is going to be unconvincing to others.
Certainly you're free to choose to believe stuff based on zero evidence. What I find particularly interesting is that you do sort of follow a set of logical progressions, but you miss a step when arguing that one particular religion is true over all others and the criteria you used to rule them out.
Perhaps you didn't have criteria - then you're belief has zero predictive power or usefulness in the real world. I may as well pull a random religion out of a hat.
I don't believe something came from nothing either. Just doesn't make sense. Which is why most people and most secular people do not believe that either. Our best evidence to date is that it takes more energy for nothing to exist than for something to exist. Matter and energy like to fall into their lowest energy states, and "nothing" is not their lowest energy state.
A non believer would have to admit that in his unbelief there are lots of things unexplained.
That's a more honest approach than making up a myth so you can claim you do know.
Originally Posted by Hastings
I really have an issue with something coming from nothing and willingly admit there's a huge huge bunch I cannot fathom...
Therefore:
...I'm sticking with Jesus....
This is called an argument from personal incredulity.
Just because something's difficult for you to believe, that doesn't mean it's not so. Additionally, solving the difficult to believe by adding an additional even more unbelievable layer on top of it solves nothing.
Saying "god(s) did it doesn't explain the origin of god(s), and to claim only they need no explanation is just another logical fallacy called "Special Pleading".
Why not explain what we understand, admit there is much we don't understand, but continue to explore it?
As for a Universe for the current scientific understanding of "nothing", here's a video of what's probably the leading hypothesis at this time from an real scientist:
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
