Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Why Are You a Christian?

Hello again antelope_sniper, did your eyesight fail again - did you miss this reply and inquiry? Or, are you avoiding it?

Is hypocrisy, as you see it, unforgivable?

I missed nothing.

I called you out for the game you were playing, what you call the "exquisite subtleties" where you attempt to state a position, but claim it's not really your position, so you can play gotcha games later on.

Let me know when you are done with that tactic, and we can continue your discussion.

Absolutely not.
It does, however, lend itself to how much credibility I give to the individual in question.
I don’t mind a guy like TLee (notice how he isn’t around much anymore) or Dogszapper or Wabi taking me to task on certain moral issues. I’m damn sure not going to listen to a whole bunch of other folks on this thread.

Good afternoon. My thoughts on the above... I do not believe that Jesus is bound by the covers of a book. Nor do I believe that following Jesus requires an inerrant Bible. The Bible is ‘not’ the foundation of the Christian faith. It wasn’t for early first century Christians (when the Bible didn’t even exist), and it’s not now. The Bible exists ‘because of’ Christianity, Christianity does ‘not’ exist ‘because of’ the Bible. *Jesus’ Resurrection is ‘the’ foundation of the Christian faith.* Christianity would ‘still’ be true even if there were no Bibles and no manuscripts. Jesus’ most devout first century followers never owned a Bible, never read a Bible...because there was no Bible to be had or read. And they never held a Bible because there was no Bible until the fourth century.

In your view was the Crucifixion and Resurrection a literal historical event on this Earth, or does it matter if it wasn't?

IndyCA35 - I ‘do’ believe that the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus are literal historical events on this Earth. And to me, the faith of Christianity is anchored to, and based upon, the ‘event’ of the Resurrection.

I can try.
Christians worship a Triune God. That means He is made up of 3 parts: God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There was a huge amount of sin in the world , always has been and always will be until He returns and it will be dealt with then. So God needed a way to cover up the sin by giving people something simple to believe in. In the past with the Jews, God allowed them to cover their sin with sacrifices. Different sins required different sacrifices with the most serious ones requiring a blood offering from doves, lambs and bulls, to name a few. They had to be without spot or blemish. Jesus had no sin, and He would be the sacrifice. Believing in Him earned Grace from the Father and the sin was covered. Some people find that belief hard, others don't. One thing is, is free. So God the Son became flesh. Flesh He would surrender to the cross and show those what He was prepared to do to win our salvation from sin. The evil and cruel was not due to God but to mankind who put Christ on that cross. God loved us so much He was ready to suffer and die as a total innocent, so we might live with Him forever. Sorry I couldn't handle that one with a few words. I've pared it down about as much as I could. There are many things worth knowing to understand how God laid this all out.

As to why the Romans crucified people, it was the worst death they knew of and did that to keep people in line. Humans are evil when left to do whatever they will.

It was to take away the sins of the world, but the way it was done was to blot them out. God knew humans were incapable of never sinning again. But by believing in Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross as the blood covering for your sins and you can go through life essentially sinless as far as God is concerned. You will still sin. We all do and will, but the blood of Christ covers that sin so it can no longer been seen by God.

The Apostles, authors of the New Testament, believed Jesus was coming quickly because Jesus said he was. Thing was, they operated from the standpoint of time in this world and He operated in Eternity in Heaven.

most scholars agree the cross symbol was not used by early christians.
so raises the question did such event happen as described.




To people that never witnessed such a Jesus, he became real/implanted in their minds
only because of oral tradition and creeds, some which found way into Bible.




As you do with others things Roman, You lack proper knowledge and give poor explanation
of why Romans crucified.

Unlike Roman citizens, the status of an ordinary Jew in a Roman province was rather low.
Crucifxion woud be meted out to non-Romans rather commonly and with relative ease.-
basically -- those without civil rights; be it a slave, criminal, political or religious agitator,
pirate, ...could qualify for crucifixion

JC received the legal punishment for capital offenses against the state by a non-citizen.
ie: had he been born to a Roman citizen, Christians woud have needed a different narrative
as to his fate.

Splendidly put Ricky.

Thinking today about the two thieves on either side of Jesus, one asked Jesus to remember him when He came into His kingdom.
Even at that last moment, just asking while believing was enough for Jesus to promise the thief Paradise.

I'll pray for all the we are living with Our Lord in Paradise when the day comes.

Ringo also needs to consider average life expectancy in 1st century Judea.
and how old any such puported witnesses were at the time of alleged events.

No christian seems able to come up with an impartial reliable source detailing
how many actual verifiable witnesses there were of worthwhile repute.

Further; Romans were constantly very watchful of events in insurrection prone Judea
and they were meticulous record keepers...iF a man that had been killed by crucifixion
was then found/widely reported to be walking around the province for 40 days after
his death , surely it would arouse much interest and investigation by the Romans?





We well know what 'fanatical' grade CF christians claim to see and hear.

Josephus records the trials and tribulations of several Jewish Messianic figures of the time. It's interesting to note that several of alleged Gospel accounts see to be lifted from these accounts in Josephus.

Antlers,

I will give you this. Yours is an uncommon understanding of Christianity. You're skeptical enough of the recorded human claims that you are willing to question moral proclamations that see silly, or overly self serving to the authors. This is a good bulwark against you blindly following your religion down an immoral path. Additionally, I don't think you can be accused of blindly following some religious leader, since I'm now aware of any preaching your personal brand of your Faith.

Josephus wrote in 75 and 93-94 AD, but Ringo claims
the entire N.T. to be completed prior 70 AD.

Josephus has the death of James being by stoning
Acts 12:2 has the death of James being by sword
2nd-century church chronicler Hegesippus,..has
James being clubbed to death.

I will say, you gentleman have a zeal for religion.

So in your book the aggressor is the innocent one...and anyone retaliating in self defense is the guilty party?

Good Christians are always the hard done by innocent victim regardless of how reprehensible they act, obnoxious, spewing hate, but innocent and pure as little lambs.....God forbid that anyone calls them an idiot.

Actually they are not....the authors are not eyewitnesses, they simply write about the things they were told.

And it's a good thing - all the facts are coming out.

Pray tell, how do you know this? You read this from someone who was knew those guys? Your blind faith is most impressive!

I read the history of the gospels from reputable academic sources. You should try it.