Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Co Virus Naysayers

We are talking about corona virus as the title of the thread states

I'm saying it's here. It will always be here. It will probably mutate. It will kill a bunch of people whose immune system can't deal with it. Either this year or next year, if something else doesn't get them first.

Every person dies. In all kinds of ways. Even if we could have saved every fatality so far, they will still die of something. You might as well get used to the idea.

Tanking the economy to maybe save a bunch of people who probably aren't long for this world anyway is a fool's errand. But we've pissed away a lot of folks 401ks. We've saddled future generations with at least another trillion in debt. And we might probably have kept some folks alive for a little longer.

Before you get all preachy about it would be different when it affects me personally, I'm in a high risk category. I've also been told that my job is "essential", so I don't have the option of sitting at home. Even if I did, I wouldn't want to. I have no intention of spending my (potentially) last few days, or months, or decades, cowering in fear.

I also have a three year old grand daughter. I'm more worried about leaving her with a [bleep] economy than we've enjoyed. If this gets me, I've had a good life. If it doesn't, I'll enjoy whatever time I have left having a better life. Unless the politicians f uck it all up.

battue, hope you and the dogs are doing well.



I think you missed my point. Which is minimizing the contact by isolating and spreading out time with infected parts of the population. No one has mentioned infectious units. A person (animal) has to be exposed to enough infectious units in order for the disease to progress to a harmful state. Makes sense that the more one animal (human) is exposed to other animals, who are possibly infected, they would likely pick up a higher load of infectious units. Well, it makes sense to me anyway, as someone who worked with infectious diseases.

Ask our rancher folks here if they move healthy animals away from unhealthy animals, even in a fairly "unconfined" space such as a pasture. And move any showing signs of disease elsewhere, away from the herd.

Basically, that's what is being attempted here by the "authorities". The garden ladies are much less likely (but not 100%) to contact one or more carriers than 17000 fans at a hockey game.............or even 250 customers at the Red Lobster in an evening. Should an infected person go to the Red Lobster, do you honesty think the bus person and wait staff will do a thorough job of cleaning where that person went over the course of their fine dining experience? However, an infected person has much less chance of contaminating a whole restaurant if they just stop the car and the staff hands a meal to them through the car window.

Again, I hope you and the pups are enjoying the spring. Ours hasn't come yet. 17F again this morning

Geno

Americans got the idea in their head during the 60s that instructions from the government were little more than weak suggestions. It may very well be the death of many who were young and frivolous during that time.

Have heard a handful of “naysayers,” but many more non-alarmists and pragmatists.

So is this were i can say it all again?

It is a cold virus. Odds are, most will come in contact with it eventually.

Many colds lead to viral bronchitis or pneumonitis. This one leads to severe viral pneumonitis in some persons. To GI distress in others. Or both. And others, just a vague viral syndrome or nothing at all. Understand, you’ve ALL been thru this before, MANY times.

Like every year, some barely know they had it, some get sick, and some do die of COMPLICATIONS of the illness..

This happens EVERY virus season.

Like most respiratory viruses, it hits the elderly, the immunocompromised, those with respiratory diseases the hardest. The rare, relatively well person, will also have a bad outcome. Not new. If you read carefully, MOST of them also had health risks, too. It does not mean “We’re all gonna die!!!”

This season’s cold virus is an exceptionally bad one, yes. Multiples of bad if in the high risk group. Yes, that’s bad. 3,4,5x as bad - it’s not perfectly known. On a ventilator-bad, yes. May not have enough ventilators-bad, yes. It is NOT, however, small pox or ebola. Some of you survived polio. Keep it in perspective.

Prevention = hygiene. Always been the case. “Social distancing” is an extension of that. I.e. limit the density of the virus persons encounter, and lessen the density of people interacting and sharing spit, air, surfaces. Always been true, and now more urgent.

There. Have tried to offer informed context without jargon and speculation. I call it “a cold” to keep it in perspective. It is not the boogie man. It is not the movie “The Happening.” Don’t like it? Not exciting enough? You can get all the hot air and panic you want on Tv and social media, then. The wing-flapping clucking hens who are all suddenly medical experts, watching cnn then turning to type on social media, will continue to do what they do.

I'm not sure what to make of it. My attitude is probably 60% naysayer / just being hyped and 40% should take it seriously. I have a loved one in my home with underlying health issues so we're treating is pretty darn seriously, despite my doubts.

I know one thing with certainty. If this is real, the media is 100% to blame for ALL of the skepticism. They've been lying for so long that at least 1/2 of the country doesn't believe anything they say anymore.

Geno: I understand what you are trying to tell me. Where we disagree, would be I think the numbers of those who are not restricted, and are potentially contagious, will eliminate any chance of having a significant flattening of the so called curve. More so, if the virus is as virulent as reported. Combine it with with the fact most who do contact it will survive and go on, and it will be with us next year and for many after that, then for now it is something we will have to learn to live and die with and from. However, I doubt it will be a killer of exponential proportions

Idaho: Americans long before the 60’s, had it in their mind instructions from the government should always be looked at with critical evaluation and assessment.

And unfortunately for those of us from the 60’s, many now pushing 80, there are many things that will soon be the death of us. It’s the way of it.....you just run the race, none win it...you telling us we were young and frivolous and equating it to covid, is little more than another of your fool errands.....
,

It's more infectious than the common flu.
But it will turn out to be less deadly than the common flu when all the #s are in.
Death rate in the USA
4.06% March 8 (22 deaths of 541 cases)
3.69% March 9 (26 of 704)
3.01% March 10 (30 of 994)
2.95% March 11 (38 of 1,295)
2.52% March 12 (42 of 1,695)
2.27% March 13 (49 of 2,247)
1.93% March 14 (57 of 2,954)
1.84% March 15 (68 of 3,680)

Would we expect it to be free, or for someone else to pay for it?

Before the 60s, Americans typically held authority in high regard. WW I and WW II would have turned out much different had that not been the case.

That changed drastically during the 60s, primarily due to Socialist provocateurs.

And "the flu" does not hospitalize 20% of those diagnosed, nor kill 50% of those hospitalized. Nor does the number of those diagnosed with the flu double every four days.

If one does not consider that a signiticant difference, there is little hope.

Watergate was probably the biggest single incident that destroyed .gov's credibility.

Way over hyped. It's bullpuckey. No need to shut the country down because of this and create the disruptions now happening.

The % of people infected is not even a statistical error on any chart.

Wrong. The media is making it 100,000 X worse.

Corruption killed their status with me.

Pretty much everyone that comes in contact with it can/will get it, no immunity.

For the naysayers:

The problem is hospital beds (and mortality rate). The U.S has +/- 2.77beds/1,000 people...for comparison, Italy has 3.18, s Korea has 12.27, Japan has 13.05 (I assume a positive from the SARS outbreak)

Say 1,000 people get the virus, 150 need hospital care (15%), 50 need ICU (5%). there aren't enough hospital beds to even cover the ICU patients.

With good care, Covid 19 is 10-20 times as deadly at the flu, with no care 30 times as deadly?, 50 times as deadly? Italy will be a barometer.

If 100M people get the coronavirus (herd immunity for Covid 19 is unknown but estimates range from 29-74%. So, 100M is on the low side), and care is good, the numbers say 600K - 1.2M will die from it. Without good care (which we will not have in the U.S. in the event of a widespread epidemic), I am thinking those numbers will be higher.

It doesn't just kill old people either...those on blood pressure medication (any of you?) are at high risk...5%

As a gentle reminder to you, it was you that said our immune systems would overcome this virus. You took it to the immune system arena but now have backed off a little bit on that?

If our “immune systems are so strong as to overcome and negate this threat, well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you fill in the blanks to your ongoing statements about that.

Ain’t anyone “preaching “ here, Dassa. You do what you think is right and I sincerely wish you well being that you’re in the high risk category.

I see posts here saying some people in the medical community don’t think this is a big deal. My experience is just the opposite. Through coincidence of timing my wife and I are each dealing with medical issues that are urgent but not life threatening. All of our providers and all of their team members are now treating this extremely seriously. Some of our contacts moved to telemedicine this week. I expect that is the wave of the future when this virus is history.

I,too, believe that it will set future treatment protocols and methods. Hopefully they’ll be in the right directions.