Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire What is a greater worry to you? CV-19 or Economy?

All:

Last week, it was virus. Now, it’s our economy.

People all around me are losing their jobs. I feel that we are going to collapse, or at least go way down in my town. In the last 2 days, 11 people I know from five different employers are out of work.

Are things getting that bad by you?

RAS

By far the economy.

I guess it just depends on what kind of skill a guy's got. Plenty of folks will still be working, and making a good living, even in a bad economy. Skill can't stave off death though.

A bad economy isn't lethal.

My greatest worry might be the folks that don't believe in the Corona.

Geno

Both, hopefully they can get the test out............so people who have had it can go back to work.

My parents.

Things will go back to what they were.
Just a matter of time.
How much stress, stupidity.............can happen before then?

Looks like drugs and violence are ramping up in my burg
2 weeks and some folks are losing their control.

I doubt folks, even if they weather this mess without much $ damage, are going to be loose with their finances.
Proly take 6 months to recover to normal spending habits.

My biggest worry is my plan to retire in 3-6 years. I think my 401k will recover but am concerned this is a big enough set back, I won't be where I need to be.

There a WalMart in Helena?


They be hiring......

Im stocked up w food n stuff but have been hitting the drive throughs pretty hard, putting money into those channels.

The economy will come back fast as soon as we ditch the democrats. Maybe send them to china they like communism.

I’m more worried (right now) about the economy, the national debt increase, wasteful spending, misinformation, the precedent being set and about the loss of freedoms.

Like Jim I am also more worried about losing a parent to this invisible chit than losing money.

I haven't gone in a store or been around anyone other my wife or parents in the last 11 days.

Still working though of course. 60-70 hour weeks currently so there is no time to sit around and mope about my precious 401k....



I feel bad for the working class people who have no savings and currently no way to make income. They are in a hard place no doubt.



And if I were to catch this chit WTF would I do? No sick days or time off to be had, it would be a disaster work wise.


Barring massive inflation my wife and I could live for 12-16 months on savings. But we won't be upgrading a wore out feed pickup or 37 year old farm tractor either, proceeding with caution as the commodity market is our bread and butter. Hell back in early February this virus already gave us a hit on our yearly calf sale. And it was hard enough to make before, gonna be even tougher now.

Economy. Starting to hear some are running out of money here. PD is reporting more vehicle breakins.

In 5 or 6 years the economy (while damaged through debt) should recover. Think of this time as an opportunity to keep saving and investing for the inevitable growth.

Economy. Corona, while it exists and is taking lives, will eventually be under control. This BS happening now has just set our economy back 20 years at least.

I'm turning 60 in July and thinking about retiring in a year or so. Mine is the only pension in the household so am very concerned about that.

Freedom 75.

The virus is way worse, on a personal level.
When your loved one dies/you have lung function destroyed,
that's the whole sheban, for you.

Big picture as a country, if 100,000 people die? No big deal.
We have 330,000,000. Very few are important enough to have
losing them matter. The effects of this thing though...
The deaths might be a footnote, the effects of the economy,
along with the social effects, could last decades.

The hoarding and shortages were short lived, thank God.
My first fear was people running out of food.
Nothing, no-damned-thing, will turn a society upside down
faster than a man with a hungry family. Many here talk about
"Living off the land". Brag they would be fine. It doesn't work that way.
All those guns, all that ammo? Don't mean [bleep]!

People worry about 20% drop in a 401!
I worry about my country turning into the Balkans or Somalia.

I'm not worried about anything, everything is great.

Coronavirus is the immediate problem. KYHillChick and I are both at risk. My mom's 91 and stuck in a quarantined facility. We're in a major metropolitan area and there thinking about closing the bridges out of the state. My BOL may end up off-limits. However, Krogers is delivering to the house once a week, and we've got a freezers full of venison.

The economy? Yeah, it's a bad deal, but the infrastructure is still sound. We can bounce back rather quickly. I'm working for a company that manufactures a key part used in refrigeration and AC. I can hold off retiring and stay working.

What worries me is the next thing. I used to know an archeologist. She was an expert on Crete and the Minoans. Yes, Thera blew its top and screwed up everything in the eastern Med. However, the Minoans were already in decline. She was not sure what it was, possibly a plague or some other such thing. It turned a bad volcanic explosion into a catastrophe. Similarly, I'm not filled with existential dread over either of these current dilemmas. I'm worried about the kick in the teeth that might hit us while we're down.

The virus!!

The Socialists taking the Senate and the White House in November.

The economy.

Haha. Poverty will lead to death and great human suffering.

There is not, in my opinion a definitive answer to this. It depends on what the individual values more. A question I can't really answer at this point in time..

Nothing snarky here, but I'm curious as to what you mean by collapse.


But to answer the question, it's the economy and the long term value of our dollar that spooks me more than the virus.

My folks have been bunkered in for the past 2 1/2-3 weeks, they're doing well. It's my in-laws I worry about, they are still out doing their regular routine claiming they're "being careful".

A dine, nor a dollar, makes a dead man any richer. This is a no brainer !

I'm like nancy pelosi, all kicked back with drink in hand, sunglasses on.
"Crisis...What crisis?"

There were 2,800,000 deaths in America last year. Do you think that had an effect on those families? Of course it did and does, but there is no focus on the loss to those families as there is to CV-19.

Somehow in all this “sky is falling” pandemic, people have forgotten the fact that isolation can prevent infection, but the economy has no boundaries and the net negative effect harms and can destroy way more people and families than the virus will.

No, just the opposite. Out of about 300+ employees. on March 27th, Friday morning most were sent home to work remotely. Mostly engineers and various office workers. They are all upstairs. Downstairs we have SIX people left in the production area out of close to 100 people. All but 6 were laid off about 3 months ago. Last Monday they were all told to go home for 30 days, either use vacation time of take it without pay. All 6 stuck together and defied the company. All are STILL working. In the machine shop where I work the company put us on 50 hours. Actually, the engineers are putting out WAY more work from home that they did in house. Hardly NO traffic. I was taking me close to an hour each way to travel. Now it is 30/35 minutes. So far so good. Who knows what lies ahead. Don't get me wrong. I am 75 years old. No underlying conditions. NO medications. How long will I survive. WHO KNOWS.

Now for you people that live in large metropolitan areas, you are so F~cked, my neighbors are my friends, they will defend what is mine and I will defend what is theres, that Williams guy said it best " A country boy can survive" , for you city folks , Labor day is going to be a welcome sight !

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS.

Being self employed this is a tough one...without the virus the economy can/will come back, with the virus still a concern, the economy will spiral down as if we don't have confidence as a country we're in year's worth of trouble.
5-10 years from now I'm not sure what normal will look like. AT 53 I'm much more concerned about my 3 adult kid's futures than mine.
We can't simply print more money at throw it at our problems.

I agree that printing money is huge issue. Money printing is more of a power grab than a solution to the covid. Covid is an excuse to steal the future.

Not for me personally, but a LOT LOT LOT of people are really hurting... Ergo - the economy situation's paramount IMHO..

I don’t see how I can have a greater concern over either. However, one concern is personal and the other societal. I live in the hope (not wishful thinking hope) or the resurrection. I don’t want to leave terra firma any time soon. I have 15, 13 and 11 yo children at home still, two adult children and two young grand sons. However, I live with the realization that every day could be my last, Covid or no Covid. This is the fate for each of us. I believe that C S Lewis said it best when speaking about the potential for nuclear war.

If the economy breaks down we run many great risks. We are already seeing power grabs by politicians with the willful response of of the masses following them with little question. This seems to be happening at every level of our federal, state and local governments. Our culture and society has been harmed by social distancing. Fear of the unknown, a natural human response, has deliberately or inadvertently become a catalyst driving selfishness. We see this in the unfounded impulse of the masses to hoard. A lot could be said about the many societal responses that we are seeing.

It is undeniable that these months are filled with uncertainty. However, most of this uncertainty seems to be driven by fear rather than sound reasoning. It could be argued that we are acting in a penny wise pound foolish way. Destruction or crippling of the economy will impact an exponential number of people in comparison to the deaths occur because of this virus. We know this because of the number of people still alive compared to mortality rates in countries hardest hit.

What will we do the next time the sky begins to fall? Is this the new norm, self isolation and economic and social destabilization? My concern is that we will begin to willfully destroy ourselves out of fear of the always next unknown. At some point we just need to live our lives.

People will ask this question in hindsight for years to come, but right now I don't think any government beside china is willing to cull the population. Outside of the political power rape, I think the economy has to take a hit.
My wife is a RN, so I think we will get sick. Naturally death is an outcome, but so is being a cripple sucking on a machine for the rest of a miserable life. That is bleak. My 401K will come back, body maybe not. That is my view from my kitchen table.

the virus killing one of my kids or wife.
as for myself, i have lived a good and full life with many blessings and am prepared for it to end and will leave my family in good shape.
we can work our way out of an economic downturn given enough time.

I admire you for thinking the way you do. I just worry that when I am gone, and I AM prepared for that, there is not one single person that will be there to help my wife. For years there has been a literal line of people with hands out and she was there for them. It will NOT work the same when she needs help. THAT is my concern.

Economy !

+1

The economy

Things are going to come and go.. I worry about life and health..

Economy mostly.

The virus in and of itself - not so much.

The overreaction to it - yep. Which is directly impacting the economy.

Tough call. I am very concerned about my parents and in-laws as well as my daughter and wife who both deal with auto-immune issues. Get past that and the economy getting on track again is a big unknown. We personally are positioned pretty well but this is going to be a turning point for the country, just not sure what the new direction is going to look like. Lots to be concerned about in these times.

The economy, and the fear the MSM will succeed in getting a socialist elected.

The so called pandemic of CV-19 has got people running scared and hiding behind walls of toilet paper. Hitler killed 6,000,000 Jews during the Holocaust and America has killed more than that in the past decade due to abortions. If people really cared about saving lives why don’t they do something about abortion, it is a bigger killer than this predicted virus ever thought of being.

FWIW, the Governor of Utah just signed a bill outlawing elective abortion.

Short term the virus, it will pass soon enough, and I pray with as few deaths as possible.

Longer term, I think the economy will rebound fairly quick in general. I am concerned about my business. 99% of our work is on the oilfield and I see another down cycle of a couple years.

We sell construction materials, so my company is still open. We're pretty busy, but not as busy as we normally are this time of year. I'm always concerned about the economy. However, if the virus hits my company, we'll have to shut down. Not to mention the fact that I don't want anyone here, or their families, to get sick and possibly die. The economy will come back eventually, but it might take a while. We'll just have to tough it out. Been there, done that.

The economy is by far the more scary and dangerous. I think we should have toughed out the disease instead of the economy.

Economy for sure, but also the long term ramifications of this new “button” that powers-that-be can press to get us to ask with urgency “how high?” When they say “JUMP!”

Both of these issues, particularly given the media’s devotion to Leftist authoritarianism, are disturbing to me.

The disease will be cured. The economy and these social changes will haunt us for a long, long time.

The economy.

One hundred per cent in agreement. What EVER happened to the land of the free? Where are all these "patriots"?

I’m thinking the economy will recover much faster than 5-6 years, less than half that.

I worry about several things:

- Economy long term, how long can we keep shutting things down, laying off people, then expect it to magically come back on? Small businesses owners may have no choice but to close permanently, USA can't survive without the small businesses. So essentially the local economy over the national/world economy.

- Health for family. My dad is about to turn 80, in laws not far behind. I worry for them. Also now have a 1 week old grandson, I haven't met, would like to meet him before he's old enough to have a drink with!

- Politicians, how many BAD THINGS will they shove into any stimulus bills? they will use it to get the pet projects in that can't pass on their own.

- Future, I've never really worried about national debt, figure it's just a fact of life and we owe but others owe us, all a big money shuffle. Starting to wonder if this mess is going to actually have a real effect. If the world economy is down, where exactly would we borrow the money from?

Economy, without a doubt. The ramifications of giving the federal glutten even more power.

...and of course the political fallout come November could swing the country even further left.

Another worry is that we the people have allowed the government to further control our lives. Shut down businesses, churches, set curfews, and tell us we cannot leave our homes.

While this government control may be for a good reason this time, it is setting a terrible precedent nationwide. Already, I have seen it here after the hurricanes. But when we the people expect government to take care of every need so nobody is uncomfortable we get what we deserve.

We are a nation of wimps.

Thanks for input. Lots of interesting points. Some I haven’t thought about. Good thread.

For the individual that asked me about what I meant when I wrote ‘collapse’, let me explain.

I will set the table about my town of 12K. Middle class. Super low crime. Lots of sportsman. Schools close for opening day of deer season. My point is good people. The kind of people who pull over when you get a flat. Everyone waves at each other.

Now, there are 3 pretty big employers here that are doing well and historically have weathered the storms. But after seeing 6.6 million jobless claims come in today, who knows where this is going. That is a massive amount. Anyways, if those 3 employers were to close, my town would be devastated. Good people all around me would be in trouble. They don’t want a stimulus check, or unemployment. They want to go to work. A town like this just doesn’t come back like NYC.

Right now today, I don’t give a F about my 401K. I am thinking about my neighbor who has 4 girls all in K-12 school, with an ill wife. Always worked and carried himself honorably. And people just like him all across the country.

There HAS to be another way than just friggin closing the country. I care about my mother and in laws too. BUT, I also know they care about the future of their grandchildren too.

The central bank is reaping a fortune off of this situation. Maybe Trump will surprise them after this and say "sorry boys, but you aren't in charge of the money anymore and we can't pay".

Idiots that are panicking and making things worse.

Panic buying. Not staying home and spreading the Chinese flu.

No need to make it worse than it needs to be.

For every Citizen in America, the most existential enemy is government. At all levels. Government’s existence is antagonistic toward the Citizens.

For the folks on this site that know, I would like to hear their opinion. After this is over, where does all this contrived money go? Will money as we know it now be devalued by inflation? I have been believing the stock market run-up for the last 3 years was fueled by increases in the money supply and not a real increase in value. Are consumer goods next for a run-up in order to absorb the money?

By far I'm more worried about the economy. This virus will pretty much be a memory in a year. But the 2,000,000,000,000 is forever. And they're talking that this is just the beginning of emergency spending.

I'm saddened by all the people dying, and would prefer that no one close to me dies from the virus, or anything else. But most of the people dying from this are at the end of their natural lifespan. The people who will be paying interest on this debt haven't even been born yet.

I'm also concerned about the people who think the economy will just bounce back, like it did in ww2. Then, the US held vast reserves of gold, and became the world reserve currency. Almost the entire world had their manufacturing capacity destroyed, and had to turn to the US for everything. Very few people were dependant on the govt for a living, and the work ethic was much greater. Govt regulations were a much smaller part of every day life.

All of that has changed since then. Our economy is basically a house of cards. But it's a big house, and won't topple easily. But the foundation is constantly being under mined. Trump was doing a good job of shoring it up, but this virus has set back a lot of what he has accomplished, and it only will take one Democrat victory to destroy it.

Money is much like a glass of wine, if you dilute what is in the glass, you devalue the contents.

If most people have not figured out that the stock market is just another ploy for the wealthy to take your money you should ride the short bus..yes some normal people make some money in the market for a short period of time but then the big boys do there thing and it all goes to hell again. Do you really believe only a couple senators sold with inside information? Ed k

So living on the gulf coast most of my life we deal with tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, drought... businesses and jobs come and go. A good hurricane can wipe out an area for 6 months to a year or more.
Guess what? It always comes back. Sure the local mom and pop grocery store may go by a different name. Burger joint to. And so on.

But the sky is not falling. Not yet anyway as we know about hindsight and even I can be wrong from time to time though my wife says I'm perfect... LMAO.

Anyway its like a pothole in a road. Or maybe a flood that washes a bridge out... it will come back. Just a matter of time. And people will not sit idle on their azz waiting on handouts. Wait, maybe they will, but I think most will make the most of it. I mean if in the end this year all my work in Alaska equals none, I may be looking to Walmart to stock shelves when I come back in the winter. You know it doesn't matter what we do. We must do.

That said to answer your question.

The economy bothers me more since if I get the 19, I'll survive it and carry on. Or I'll die and won't have to worry about 19. Pretty dang simple really.

Now if death bothers you, then you have a big issue and are likely depressed with nothing to do and not doing a thing. I get that.

Of course we have faith that once we die a better place awaits. And in that faith, none of this bothers me much. I'd be outright lying if I said nothing bothers me at all. I mean I worry about the bear charging a client or a moose. What if I miss... I worry about what if the fish don't bite... actually I worry more about the boats and the river and hitting an unseen rock, loosing engine power at the worst time, having a client have a serious medical emergency in the bush even though I'm a trained EMT. What about me dying or passing out while driving clients.. But really all that is small stuff, I think about it, try to plan for it, just like planning for this.
Nope we are not what I call preppers. But from what I read we may be closer to than further away. Pretty sure unless the power goes out we can live 6 months pretty easy, if not a year. If the power goes out I am a bit short on salt this is true, to cure what food we have frozen. BUT that will be solved today as I'm going by the feed store to get an 80 pound bag of feed salt... just in case...

Anyway, long as I'm alive, tommorrow is another day the Lord has made and if he lets me through this one and gives me the next one I'll be back up doing something around the house or farm even if I'm not getting paid. And I have a few small jobs coming up that will pay me a bit so its all good.

Now, to what I do worry about the most.

Liberals. Democrats. Socialists. Communists. RUINING. THIS. COUNTRY. They are working hard at it and getting close. Time to load a few more rounds of ammo.

They say that 70% of U.S. citizens don't have even $400 cash on hand for an immediate need or emergency. Most people here live as 3rd world slaves and depend on their Master for help. They wouldn't know a depression from a market boom.

I feel bad for the people retiring next year. Their 401k sucks now. I have over 15 yrs. to go but it'll happen again.

As far as the virus goes, I don't know. They know too little. Is it seasonal? Will it come back every year?

That's my big question.

Me too. This sucks. This sucks for the economy, shutting schit down isn’t free and that’s a big deal. Gotta work to eat. This has been lousy and it looks like it’s gonna get lousier. But if you ask me would I rather sacrifice the economy for awhile or my dad? Well, hell, maybe I’ll stay away from people and give up some stuff while my wife is out of work for my mom and dad and grandma.

Hell maybe even my brother or sister. It was a younger crop we admitted yesterday. The more people that get this is more throws of the dice and it’s easy to think it’s just stupid political nonsense until it’s your family’s turn to roll

Great point about hurricanes rost, I hadn't ever looked at it like that.

Covid 19...[bleep] the economy. Lives are most important...an economy can be rebuilt.

I was taught-----"If you have your health, you have everything. If you don't have you health, you have nothing." It's in Matthew16:26-----"What does an man gain...…………."

Talking to people - none of them blames Trump for any of this. They have their issue with him but they also don't blame any of this on him and are generally ok with how it's being handled.

Most heartburn is basically around local leadership. Governors and city admins.

For me and my family its covid. I'm at very high risk so it concerns us.

Economy will rebound. Yes some folks will be hurt and that's bad but it will come back. I know I've been broke before and pulled myself out of it, I'll do it again if need be.

The economy.

The economy. It might take years to fully come back, virus will be over in a couple of months.

False dichotomy; economic downturn is going to cost lives. In this case it isn’t far outside the realm of possibility it’ll cost more lives than the disease.

Gotta look big picture and not just at the media hype.

The economy and how quickly so many bought the panic and immediately turned their entire lives and futures over to the government. I will laugh at all future SHTF threads.

I think Trump knows best how to handle this and as he has said, the economy will soon come roaring back.

You fail to distinguish between the previous administration and the new one.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/gene...efend-our-country-regardless-of-the-cost

Fear-mongering tyranny and loss of freedom

Well, you're supposed to be happy to give it all up in the hope of adding 8-10 months to the life of the overweight chain-smoker who is already dying of diabetes and COPD. His poor choices are much more valuable than your hard work and good choices. It's easy for others to make that choice for you.


I failed to indicate any administration at all, since that is not what I was talking about.

Of immediate concern is the virus and it's potential to harm our families and friends. Of slightly less concern is it's potential to harm me. Although I'm of advanced middle age (70), I don't feel all that vulnerable. In addition, we are pretty isolated. We have family members though, who are vulnerable. We may not see our parents (in their 90's) again. Other family members with health issues are definitely at risk. Too many of the guys I shoot with are at risk.
Going forward, the economy has to be of great concern. Devaluation of monies is certainly possible. This means our cash in the safe, our savings, our pensions may all be devalued. In addition, a significant source of our income is a small business which depends on disposable income and I suspect we will take a hit of at least 50% this year and can't guess what might happen next year. We won't get this back. It will be a while before real estate values get back to where they were. GD

This shutdown nonsense will end far more lives than the virus. People will turn to drugs--and suicide--in despair. Depression will grow. Many jobs will never come back. Those who dreamed of starting a small business will have their dreams shattered.

They're already talking about nationalizing the airlines and Boeing. The alternative is the airlines and Boeing will go out of business. This crap will wreck our country.

You are going to see massive default on all forms of debt. The banks may not be able to survive the hit.

There were 6.6 million new unemployment filings last week. The previous record, the week before that, was 3.3 million. Since 1967, there were never more than 600,000. They are wrecking our country and our people because of some disease that "might" be as serious as the 1957-58 or the 1968 flu, both of which killed 100,000 people. Nobody knows.

The shutdown panic makes as much sense as abolishing automobile driving. After all, traffic accidents claim 40,000 lives each year.

So stop it!

Reality.

Economy.

The problem I have with the decisions being made now are that there is no checks or balances, you basically have one person or one school of thought. I don't think anyone had seriously considered the long term implications of a prolonged economic retraction when the decisions to shut the economy down were made. We are basically being drove off a cliff and the driver is there to ensure us that, trust me, this is the only way.

^^This^^

If you were asked to define life, would you define it as life = work, or life = income, or life = ‘any’ material thing...?

Very well said!

Actually it is. The 2007-2009 recession caused 5,000 more suicides than would otherwise have occurred.

I admit that destroying our economy will save "some" lives.

And outlawing motor vehicles will save "some" lives.

And outlawing guns will save "some" lives.

Where do you stop?

The immediate concern is an out of control virus. Wife is on oral chemo at 47 and I had some previous lung issues. We still have kids at home. We need to be around for a while longer. I'm thinking 90 days - July 1 and this thing will be under control. There will still be social distancing and masks being worn everywhere much like just about every Asian in every airport you've seen since H1N1 hit. We have the smartest people in the world working around the clock to get a handle on this thing. I think you'll see treatment therapies in 60 days or less and a vaccine by time the leaves start turning.

The economy is solid in the short term. There's a lag before it actually hits the fan. America has been here before. We WILL bounce back. The market peaked on 12FEB. Bear markets usually last 206 days. However, we have DJT driving the ship now. NO other President has been so uniquely prepared to handle this sort of economic crisis. I think you'll see critical manufacturing return to our shores. I believe there will be a swing from Globalism to Nationalism. I believe this will carry him through the election. Churchill wasn't the smoothest PM the UK ever had, but he wasn't a pussy like his predecessor. The parallels here are strong. I've said it before, I think this will be DJT's finest moment. He ain't no pussy either.