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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,614
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,614 |
"I have spoken to the TR’s Carrier Strike Group Commander, RDML Stuart Baker. RDML Baker did not know about the letter before it was sent to him via email by the CO. It is important to understand that the Strike Group Commander, the CO’s immediate boss, is embarked on the Theodore Roosevelt, right down the passageway from him. The letter was sent over non- secure, unclassified email even though that ship possesses some of the most sophisticated communications and encryption equipment in the Fleet." Jorge I know you are intimately familiar with the "court intrigue" which occurs at the Flag level. What do you think was going on between the Strike Group Commander and the Commanding Officer of CVN-71? There's ALWAYS been a lot of friction between carrier COs and the embarked staff and of course I'll add the Air Wing Commander (CAG) as well. When it comes down to it, a Frigate CO has more leeway and authority than a Carrier CO because he has all these other "elephants" second guessing them. But to the point, the CO should have strictly adhered to the CoC, PERIOD and especially when he put it all in writing and hit "distro" on his email.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,133
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,133 |
I suspect that we're getting part of the story.
I sincerely doubt the Capt did not go up through his chain of command, it's baked in his genes, and unless they have evidence that he sent the letter to the media its a typical Navy move. Could have easily been someone else on the cc line of his message that spilled it. There are no shortage of officers in the Navy who think their career depends on stepping on others.
If the CoC did blow him off and he felt he had no option but to go public, well, he knew he was going to fall on his sword and he can look in the mirror with pride that he did what he thought the right thing was.
Carrier CO's are not politically ignorant.
If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,145
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,145 |
It doesn't take a four-page letter to notify your chain-of-command that you have a problem. Four page letters are written for larger audiences. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he probably also knew this was coming.
His Boss, the Strike Group Commander, worked right down the hall. That's where his options started and stopped.
Chris
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,614
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,614 |
It doesn't take a four-page letter to notify your chain-of-command that you have a problem. Four page letters are written for larger audiences. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he probably also knew this was coming.
His Boss, the Strike Group Commander, worked right down the hall Passageway That's where his options started and stopped. Sorry, just HAD to fix that
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,145
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,145 |
My bad! Like you Jorge, I'm an aviator, so my shoe lingo slips from time to time.
Chris
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,614
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,614 |
No slack, in Light Attack!
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,034
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,034 |
No fool, they finally made it the less than hundred mile voyage, but still sitting idle.
Phil GFY . They are in place , not waiting 4 weeks like you originally posted you lying POS who could not even own up to your stupid post. Four weeks, eight weeks, two weeks, makes no difference. Mobilizing them was the right thing to do, and Trump did it. To say otherwise is just asinine and par for the course.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,693
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,693 |
Damn! I wonder what caused him to send that email? It looks like there was a lot of good-faith effort put into helping him out. I can't imagine why he would have gone public with an acute readiness issue like that.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,735 |
I went and found the letter. From reading it, the situation smells like someone made a political decision to hide the carrier's disability. That decision meant denying the personnel aboard were condemned to the disease running it's course and that ultimately would likely expose the carrier's complete disabling as well as costing the country the loss of a lot of very expensive people to replace. I suspect that Crozier was already looking at a direct rebuke from at least one superior without the balls to stand up and do the right thing. Navy line officer captains do not get there by making seat of the pants dumb decisions. They understand what politics is all about, and most particularly Carrier captains.
With all of the cryptographic equipment at his disposal making a situation report and readiness status over secure means was a no brainer. He made a statement that he felt was necessary for the good of the country, and did so knowing that it was the end of his career. There will be political fallout from this and it is going to take out some of the people above him who forced his hand. Likely some civilian and some military. Crozier is done, but I am pretty sure his last action was honorable.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,546
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,546 |
I suspect that we're getting part of the story.
I sincerely doubt the Capt did not go up through his chain of command, it's baked in his genes, and unless they have evidence that he sent the letter to the media its a typical Navy move. Could have easily been someone else on the cc line of his message that spilled it. There are no shortage of officers in the Navy who think their career depends on stepping on others.
If the CoC did blow him off and he felt he had no option but to go public, well, he knew he was going to fall on his sword and he can look in the mirror with pride that he did what he thought the right thing was.
Carrier CO's are not politically ignorant. Statement From SECNAV on Relief of CO Aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71)It is important to understand that the Strike Group Commander, the CO’s immediate boss, is embarked on the Theodore Roosevelt, right down the passageway from him. The letter was sent over non- secure, unclassified email even though that ship possesses some of the most sophisticated communications and encryption equipment in the Fleet.
It was sent outside the chain of command, at the same time the rest of the Navy was fully responding. Worse, the Captain’s actions made his Sailors, their families, and many in the public believe that his letter was the only reason help from our larger Navy family was forthcoming, which was hardly the case.
Command is a sacred trust that must be continually earned, both from the Sailors and Marines one leads, and from the institution which grants that special, honored privilege.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
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Braking chain of command or just letting the public know what's going on onboard the ship.
Phil It's impossible to render judgement because messages in flash communications between Captain and his superiors are unknown. America is not at war, the Captain simply chose health & safety of the crew.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,693 |
It used to be that military personnel were some of the healthiest people available in a nation. The kind of people that could shake off C19 with just a little fever and some chicken soup. What happened?
Politics is War by Other Means
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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It used to be that military personnel were some of the healthiest people available in a nation. The kind of people that could shake off C19 with just a little fever and some chicken soup. What happened? Mandatory diversity is what happened !
Writing here is Prohibited by the authorities.
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2013
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Braking chain of command or just letting the public know what's going on onboard the ship.
Phil It's impossible to render judgement because messages in flash communications between Captain and his superiors are unknown. America is not at war, the Captain simply chose health & safety of the crew. He choose to surrender, instead of fight, and was promptly fired for his weakness!
Writing here is Prohibited by the authorities.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2009
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I suspect that we're getting part of the story.
I sincerely doubt the Capt did not go up through his chain of command, it's baked in his genes, and unless they have evidence that he sent the letter to the media its a typical Navy move. Could have easily been someone else on the cc line of his message that spilled it. There are no shortage of officers in the Navy who think their career depends on stepping on others.
If the CoC did blow him off and he felt he had no option but to go public, well, he knew he was going to fall on his sword and he can look in the mirror with pride that he did what he thought the right thing was.
Carrier CO's are not politically ignorant. I agree, as I’ve known this CAPT since his first day in the Navy. More to come on this.
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,066 |
When the capabilities of a strategic military asset such as a nuclear carrier are compromised, one does not broadcast it to our enemies.
That little stunt the CO (or whoever did it) pulled is tantamount to leaking Top Secret information. Espionage, treason, whatever you want to call it.
I can just about guarantee that other ships, subs, military units, bases, also have Covid-19 onboard, but that information is not being provided to our enemies.
Last edited by MontanaMarine; 04/03/20.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,522
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,522 |
I suspect that we're getting part of the story.
I sincerely doubt the Capt did not go up through his chain of command, it's baked in his genes, and unless they have evidence that he sent the letter to the media its a typical Navy move. Could have easily been someone else on the cc line of his message that spilled it. There are no shortage of officers in the Navy who think their career depends on stepping on others.
If the CoC did blow him off and he felt he had no option but to go public, well, he knew he was going to fall on his sword and he can look in the mirror with pride that he did what he thought the right thing was.
Carrier CO's are not politically ignorant. Please do not disrupt the Campfire War College brain trust circle jerk with actual coherent thought.
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 671
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 671 |
Doesn’t it strike anyone else as unlikely/odd that a guy who is doing well enough in the Navy to be in charge of carrier to detonate his career without an extreme situation unfolding? Maybe the guy freaked out, maybe he actually had the well-being of his crew at heart, sees the writing on the wall and was willing to blow up his career to avoid it, who TF on here knows?
Some guys on here have obviously spent time on a carrier and maybe can help me understand better, but isn’t this carrier dead in the water wether it’s in port or floating around with the crew mission ineffective because they’re all sick?
And to the potato acting like this generation of navy men isn’t as tough as previous because the older generations wouldn’t have been effected by this “cold”...it’s not a cold with cold like symptoms for many...and these guys are stuck in a floating box living in extremely close quarters, time from first getting it to most/all having it would be extremely condensed and could start with an extremely high viral load.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- Michael Scott
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The guy is an 0-6. He didn't get to that level by being stupid. However, he forgot something he learned while rising through the ranks....handle problems in-house or get guidance from above. His career is over. Mediocre oer will follow, then retirement. You don't get a second chance at that level.
Last edited by hotsoup; 04/03/20.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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And he will get a book deal...
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