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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228 |
.. Devaluing the lives of others is what the slave owners did. It’s what the Nazis did. Devaluing the lives of others...especially to the point that they are deemed expendable’...is pretty flippin’ evil.
History has repeatedly shown that everybody is expendable, from the no rights non citizen slave all the way up to Emperors or modern era presidents. If you saw two people drowning, but you could only save one, would it be the 80 yr old or the 5 yr old? I’d probably die tryin’ to save em’ both. I think that it would be the smarter move to save one life for sure than to potentially lose three lives. Joe Delaney was in a similar situation. He failed to save two children and drowned himself, good intentions, failed execution. It is clear that you and I approach challenges from very different directions and probably from very different levels of experience and/or training.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,506
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,506 |
I am 75 years old.
I say stop the shutdown of the economy.
If it continues, many people will die from depression, suicides, despair, and drugs.
Open the economy. Intelligent people will take precautions.
We are destroying America in order to save it. It's ridiculous. Nobody has the slightest idea what the mortality rate is from the Chinese flu.
And you think the economy will rebound after a few short weeks of this crap? Nobody has any idea if it will or not.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 373 Likes: 1
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 373 Likes: 1 |
If the virus is left to run its course without preventative action:
Assumptions:
-Case fatality rate of Korea is around 3%. They had done lots of testing and contact tracing. It is unlikely they are missing large number of cases.
-Good medical care saves about 50% of the ICU cases.
-Herd immunity is 60-70%...let us call it 200M for simplicity.
-People 40 and over are at significant risk, risk increases with age.
-15-20% of cases need hospital care.
-Hospital beds in U.S....+/- 2.6/1000
What that means if we do nothing and no effective treatments are found:
-Best case 6M dead
-Hospitals will be overwhelmed, case fatality could go as high as 6%.
-Worst case 12M dead.
That is why all the countries have taken serious action once they realize what this virus really is.
I have no agenda and I wish it were otherwise. But after researching from every angle I can think of, above is the conclusion reached for just letting it run its course.
The best way to mitigate economic damage verses cost of human life is with testing. Both for those with the disease and those who have antibodies (and presumably have some immunity). We didn't get on the testing soon enough, it is everywhere right now...so until we get a handle on it, a shutdown is required.
Hoping someone with knowledge can poke a hole in the logic...
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5 |
The two most populous states, California and Texas, that’s nearly 70 million people, have a staggering total of 430 deaths COMBINED.
Cuomo just said that 74% of the hospital patients in New York have been discharged.
OPEN UP THE DAMNED ECONOMY BEFORE PERMANENT DAMAGE IS DONE!!!
Last edited by JoeBob; 04/05/20.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,312
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,312 |
There’s a lotta old men on this board. Some of em’ are in pretty good shape too, but they’re still “old”. Regardless...I’m certain that many of em’...and their loved ones...don’t feel their lives are as ‘expendable’ as you do. Being honest about difficult situations is what adult leadership is all about. Nobody is looking to the Greta Thunbergs of the World for answers when the going gets tough. Devaluing the lives of others is what the slave owners did. It’s what the Nazis did. Devaluing the lives of others...especially to the point that they are deemed expendable’...is pretty flippin’ evil. if you contracted gangrene in your pinky, would you cut it off to save your arm?
.... like tears in the rain
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,498 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,498 Likes: 1 |
There’s a lotta old men on this board. Some of em’ are in pretty good shape too, but they’re still “old”. Regardless...I’m certain that many of em’...and their loved ones...don’t feel their lives are as ‘expendable’ as you do. Being honest about difficult situations is what adult leadership is all about. Nobody is looking to the Greta Thunbergs of the World for answers when the going gets tough. Devaluing the lives of others is what the slave owners did. It’s what the Nazis did. Devaluing the lives of others...especially to the point that they are deemed expendable’...is pretty flippin’ evil. If you contracted gangrene in your pinky, would you cut it off to save your arm? That’s not even remotely comparable to devaluing the lives of others.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
There’s a lotta old men on this board. Some of em’ are in pretty good shape too, but they’re still “old”. Regardless...I’m certain that many of em’...and their loved ones...don’t feel their lives are as ‘expendable’ as you do. Being honest about difficult situations is what adult leadership is all about. Nobody is looking to the Greta Thunbergs of the World for answers when the going gets tough. Devaluing the lives of others is what the slave owners did. It’s what the Nazis did. Devaluing the lives of others...especially to the point that they are deemed expendable’...is pretty flippin’ evil. If you contracted gangrene in your pinky, would you cut it off to save your arm? That’s not even remotely comparable to devaluing the lives of others. I like the Nazi, slave owner reference... damn that is right out of the leftist play book..... very original... If nothing else this virus will expose a few more snowflake leftist here at the fire....
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,498 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,498 Likes: 1 |
I like the Nazi, slave owner reference... damn that is right out of the leftist play book..... very original... If nothing else this virus will expose a few more snowflake leftist here at the fire.... Let us all know when you are volunteering at the ER/hospital in an epicenter of this pandemic to help out with all the ‘alarmists’ doctors and nurses and respiratory therapists who are overreacting to these “colds” that are killing so many people. They would appreciate very much...you being so brave and all, and a “patriot”, and a “free man”...you helping them out.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,840
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,840 |
Sounds like you are devaluing his life.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,559
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,559 |
China alone lost more than 50,000. Not that i disagree, Yet where is the data on that?
Last edited by Hunterapp; 04/05/20.
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control
& Proverbs 21:19
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228 |
There’s a lotta old men on this board. Some of em’ are in pretty good shape too, but they’re still “old”. Regardless...I’m certain that many of em’...and their loved ones...don’t feel their lives are as ‘expendable’ as you do. Being honest about difficult situations is what adult leadership is all about. Nobody is looking to the Greta Thunbergs of the World for answers when the going gets tough. Devaluing the lives of others is what the slave owners did. It’s what the Nazis did. Devaluing the lives of others...especially to the point that they are deemed expendable’...is pretty flippin’ evil. If you contracted gangrene in your pinky, would you cut it off to save your arm? That’s not even remotely comparable to devaluing the lives of others. AKA Spook's analogy seems reasonable to me, but of course it would, since you think that my pragmatic response to crisis devalues human life. Every death is a tragedy for the deceased's family and friends.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,449
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,449 |
Yesterdays data:
Italy 230 Spain 216 France 83 UK 43 USA 18
Global count for dead approx. 50,000 or 1 in 150,000, or 0.00066% of world population. These are the numbers I've been telling people about since this whole foo-fraw started. Media driven panic. I worked ER for the swine flu, H1N1, SARS, ebola, et al. My protective device was handwashing. Period. And now that I'm retired, old (68), and asthmatic (since '74), I still don't give a damn about this, except that it's interfering with karate class and workouts at the Y. Here's a link to Johns Hopkins covid 19 map. Look at how few recovery cases are reported for the U.S. Wonder why they're not telling us the truth.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,423
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,423 |
.. Devaluing the lives of others is what the slave owners did. It’s what the Nazis did. Devaluing the lives of others...especially to the point that they are deemed expendable’...is pretty flippin’ evil.
History has repeatedly shown that everybody is expendable, from the no rights non citizen slave all the way up to Emperors or modern era presidents. If you saw two people drowning, but you could only save one, would it be the 80 yr old or the 5 yr old? I’d probably die tryin’ to save em’ both. You are unfit for leadership.
Regards,
deadlift_dude “The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.” ----Fred Rogers
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
Yesterdays data:
Italy 230 Spain 216 France 83 UK 43 USA 18
Global count for dead approx. 50,000 or 1 in 150,000, or 0.00066% of world population. These are the numbers I've been telling people about since this whole foo-fraw started. Media driven panic. I worked ER for the swine flu, H1N1, SARS, ebola, et al. My protective device was handwashing. Period. And now that I'm retired, old (68), and asthmatic (since '74), I still don't give a damn about this, except that it's interfering with karate class and workouts at the Y. Here's a link to Johns Hopkins covid 19 map. Look at how few recovery cases are reported for the U.S. Wonder why they're not telling us the truth. Interesting, my wife is a retired nurse and has been telling me the exact same thing since this fiasco started......
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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