Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR-15 For Repelling Boarders, Red Dot or Traditional Peep Sight?

LOL...yeah. If I’d never learned anything BUT wingshooting or sporting tourneys, and had never done a myriad of other stuff, I’d probably believe my old quail idols could go all John wick with an LC Smith, too. However, they’d probably be far better with a shorter, lighter gun, some light, some way to at least be precise, etc....whether carbine OR shotgun built for the task at hand. I’ve also seen buckshot and shotgun pellets in general do too much unintentionally dangerous stuff compared to bullets.

You know I took a lot of crap at the skeet range when I brought my 21" Benelli M1 but it's what I used for everything and it's the only shotgun I still own. However I would like to have the 14" version, always wanted one of those. I'd add a light and nothing else.

But as I've said in the past, I'll grab a pistol or an AR, both have lights and red dots.

This is complete horse schit.

shot at him or shot him 40-60 times? I cannot imagine a human body taking 40 rounds from an AR15 and still being functional. On the other hand I have no idea what a 62 grain gtip is, on the other other hand I have killed several deer and pigs with a 5.56 gun with one shot, one buck was in full rut chasing a doe, shot in the shoulder with a 62 grain TSX ran 25 yards and fell. Can you post up the link to that meth head story? If your 62 grain gtip is a 62 grain gold dot, aka 62 grain fusion and he was still breathing air after being hit 40 times, that is kind of wild I would figure after about 20 hits in various limbs, chest, stomach that it would be hard to be holding the pieces together, let alone be sucking wind.

Happy to help and you're not alone.

I attended a school last December. It was vehicle and low light centric.

One of the first things they have everybody do is shoot the schit out of everything, with everything. The idea is for everyone to see deflection against windshields that are outbound instead of inbound. .308 vs .223 on vehicle doors. Cinder blocks. Paving blocks. Dry wall. 4x4's. You get the idea...

The instructors of course already knew all the results because they'd already performed these same demonstrations dozens of times. But the reason they have the students shoot it, is because when they try to TELL everybody that a 9mm out penetrates a 5.56 none of the students believe them.

LOL.

Human nature I guess.

Oddly enough, shotgun loads were out penetrating 5.56 on a variety of barrier/cover as well. Which is the opposite of what we've been told for as long as I can remember.

I agree with this completely.

Since you don’t know what green tip, penetrator, m855, etc are, your comments (based on your ignorance) are taken as intended humor.

I need to get some dry wall etc
I would have thought 223 would penetrate that pretty easy

Its not that I dont believe I just like to try chit for myself

Hank

Don’t let not knowing what something is at all, keep you from being an expert on it.....or attempting to be sarcastic about something you’re intentionally misinterpreting. If you’ll notice, punctuation and words mean things. Watch for commas and question marks. I’m glad you you seem to be furthering your education, though.

I don’t remember how many times they actually hit him with whole bullets, just the steel penetrator noses, just the jacket, just the lead base plug, pieces of glass, pieces of car, but it was far more than should have been needed. I don’t know which rounds hit sheet metal, glass, engine, tires, air, grass, meat....first. ....also don’t recall when in this sequence the officer got hit....beginning, middle, end. There was a lawsuit over excessive force, based on number of wounds. It’s been some years back. Don’t see anything on actual shooting specifics of it to let you read or watch a made for TV movie about it, either. There’s been more than enough people and vehicles shot up with penetrator, mil issue rounds, to confirm what is what. Point is: FMJ/mil issu rounds aren’t the most effective incapacitators in 223/5.56, and they often over penetrate, for typical home defense/LE use. Expanding options are better. A dude that grew up wing shooting, upland hunting, dog deer hunting, shot SC tournaments, AND learns the long rifle, carbine, and/or pistol as well as his granddaddy’s shotgun, will probably be even better with EVERYTHING, than the shooter that stopped at birds and bird guns. It’s a great base, but why stop there and think it’s all that’s ever needed?

https://www.waff.com/story/29861483/police-release-new-details-related-to-arab-officer-shooting

boatboy,

It's not that it won't penetrate a single layer of sheetrock. But it disrupts flight and causes the projectile to come apart to such a degree that by the time it hits the next piece of sheetrock it's ability to connect becomes tough to predict.

If you do the same test against a 9mm, 40, or 45 ACP we found the pistol rounds actually penetrated better and in a more predictable fashion.

When you add the respective projectiles impacting studs (as they would when grazing walls in a corridor) or hitting external walls the differences start to become so negligible that it becomes a moot point. Which was pretty much the point of their exercise.

And interestingly, FMJ stuff was penetrating with less predictability and more fragmentation than regular duty rounds.

We didn't have any monolithics to test but I wish we had.

Post up a link, I would love to read it. If not your just some other dude on the internet claiming some knowledge that surpasses others knowledge. Also why would swat show up with cheap Schit green tips? Very odd. Plus your first post said “shot him” but now it’s ricochets, glass and flying cow manure.

DPMS Oracle cost me almost $500 years ago, put a laser on the picatinny gas block and a red dot on the flat top. PMC 62 gr GREEN tip for those who don't understand ( gtip) 20 rd Colt mag. anything the red dot or laser is on is toast comprende? Grew up with a shotgun in one hand and the will to use it in the other. WTF was the question again? MB

It’s nothing Bob just the usual internet commando stuff, while M855 is probably less effective that M193 at under 100 yards, I can’t see someone taking 3-4 hits in the thorax with M855 and flipping off his adversaries.

A reminder for those just joining...

This is complete fugking bullschit.

The facts of the story and the supplemental story were too nebulous to accord it any probative value.

And everyone knows that the FMJ projectiles are the worst for shooting a group.

They were made for incapacitating the bad guys.

Snork