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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Just how often do you guys have a running gun fight inside your house??
When the tailgate drops the BS stops.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,068
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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This, and as a reminder, #1 Buck is .30 cal. This Rio stuff is inexpensive making patterning and practice quite practical.
Last edited by Blacktail308; 04/24/20.
"May the LORD bless you and keep you, may His face shine upon you, may He be gracious and give you peace" from Numbers 6:24-26
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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" Even with the crappiest buckshot loads, within about 45 feet and given a decent shot you're still getting nine simultaneous .33 caliber hits. If you're really good with a handgun you might be able to shoot a 9mm fast but as fast as you can put another .356 pellet in the target a good man with a shotgun can put another 9 pellets on target. 1, 2, 3, vs 9, 18, 27..."
That is an interesting analysis, Jim. A bunch of .33 round balls. I have killed a lot of deer with a .490 round ball in a black powder rifle. Somehow, the round ball is a very lethal load. Of course .490 is a lot bigger than a .33 However, Wild Bill Hickok was slaying 'em with a Colt with a .36 round ball. Pretty similar.
As I said I never saw anybody hit with buckshot but a good torso hit anywhere under 40 yards has got to be fatal and he would die quickly. If you made a bad shot inside the house, at 20 feet, and hit the guy in the upper arm, it would blow his arm off.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Neat video. I think any shotgun is just fine for home defense. Within the confines of the average house, BB shot is probably more than adequate. In fact, if someone gets shot in the face with a .410 and no. 4's, his day is probably done. The only drawback to the shotgun at all is whether or not it is ready, at hand, when you need it. GD
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Campfire Outfitter
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Does anyone actually spend their days w/ a shotgun or rifle in hand and able to present it and make a shot in<under 3 seconds? Or predict the circumstances of the fight?
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Does anyone actually spend their days w/ a shotgun or rifle in hand and able to present it and make a shot in<under 3 seconds? Or predict the circumstances of the fight?
mike r
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
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While I am completely comfortable investigating bumps in the night and unknown sounds with a handgun, if it is a definite break in they are going to meet the Gentleman from Belgium or an AR : That Gentleman from Belgium don't look like no gentleman. He look like a meanie. lol.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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That's why I use rounds that provide a level of penetration john holmes would approve of , that said, an 11 shot 870 is in the back loaded to the gills with 9 copper plated 20 pellets each of #1 Buck, with two Brenekke KO slugs bringing up the rear. Jerry, I've seen a lot of good ballistics testing that endorses plated or hardened #1 buck. I don't have much street data for that load, however, nor does anyone else I know who keeps track of such things. However: there is a LOT of good data showing 00 buck is highly effective, and since the "laboratory" ballistics of #1 and 00 are very close at home-defense distances, I think you're on a good track. I still use 00 buck as my primary load in my 11-87. It's not because 00 is a tad more effective once you get past home defense distances, but because I haven't been able to procure a decent supply of plate #1 buckshot I have to stick with the 00 loads I have already patterned and trust. You bet Doc, if we compare 2-3/4ths inch shells, 9 pellets at 33 cal gives one number, 20 pellets of 30 cal give a whole different number, it's a hell of a payload in that case length, hope you can find some good copper plated Buck, and thanks for the knowledge.
Trump Won!
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I fell down the rabbit hole watching YouTube videos where armed homeowners were shooting up their home interiors trying to hit intruders.
From what I saw, it was evident that a handgun wasn’t getting the job done, unless scaring the living shît out of the burglar was the only intention.
1-5 bad guys ranging in color from black to black (not stereotyping) just what was on the cameras...The variety of invaders all had one thing in common, besides skin color...They all could move like a panther lit on fire with incredible agility and quickness as rounds from homeowners handguns were tearing holes in sheetrock, doors, paneling, and furnishings.
It’s apparent a lot of people have a difficult time hitting a burglar within their home, even at close range...
Why? Besides coming apart mentally that someone is in their home, the spaces are small, and there is a lot of obstacles in the way of a clear shot.
Door jambs, walls, staircase, kitchen counters, furniture, etc, make for a very brief shoot window on a quick and nimble bad guy.
Getting off anything more than a snap shot before the burglar disappears behind a wall, or through a doorway, or down a hall juking and sliding trying to get out of the house was the norm from what I watched.
Made me think the average homeowner might do better with a gauge as their choice for home protection.
Caveat. Some may consider scaring the bad guys away with missed shots is a win. YMMV. 😎
The one constant in Law Enforcement for the last 300 years has been the shotgun. Yes, a handgun is good and so is a rifle but if you want it dead and you want it dead from across the bed room or the living room it's a shotgun. I'd give my petite little wife an Mossberg youth 20 gauge or my brute of a wife a full blown 12 gauge if you think she can handle it. Either way, it's 300 years of history on their side. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to learn how to use a pump shotgun which means most wives can learn to use it. If they can handle a frying pan they can use a pump shotgun. kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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I'm no SD expert or a world class shotgunner, but always find the shotguns for self defense discussions entertaining to say the least, or, down right frustrating.
Usually, abut 50% of the crowd should be out in a dump or an improvised range with scrap sheetrock, plywood, a tape measure, their scattergun & a big box of assorted shells. You tube helps, but ain't nothin like the real thing baby. Especially those 3" magnums. They're likely to have the untrained dropping the gun at the first shot. Chuck Norris is the only person that likes those, but only in an auto.
So many misconceptions about shotguns & various loads, & it shows each & every time.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Just how often do you guys have a running gun fight inside your house?? Not to answer a question with questions, but how many times do you head butt a bridge in your vehicle? Do you have/rely on: airbags in your vehicle insurance a spare tire fire extinguishers home security system carry a weapon 911 on speed dial? Not a gotdamn thing wrong with preparedness!
Trump Won!
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Doc, SimonKenton, How do results from the 60gr Hornady Vmax/NBT out of an AR compare with the shotgun?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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1911, S&W 586 or 870 I am just itching to catch someone in my house that I need to run a test on.
Dog I rescued in January
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Per Jeff Cooper as channeled by Clint Smith and others, the object of shooting is hitting. If those folks are shooting holes in walls vs. holes in people, their training sucks. you think missed handgun shots are blowing hell out of your sheetrock , wait till you have a bunch of 12 gauge holes in the walls
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Per Jeff Cooper as channeled by Clint Smith and others, the object of shooting is hitting. If those folks are shooting holes in walls vs. holes in people, their training sucks. you think missed handgun shots are blowing hell out of your sheetrock , wait till you have a bunch of 12 gauge holes in the walls Not all holes through sheet rock are misses.....just saying.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I don't plan on killing any burglars anyway.
They're either getting cuffed up or ran out.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: May 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
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Shoot’em in the foot, they’re easier to cuff afterwards. I heard.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Campfire Tracker
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. . . Getting off anything more than a snap shot before the burglar disappears behind a wall, or through a doorway, or down a hall juking and sliding trying to get out of the house was the norm from what I watched.
Made me think the average homeowner might do better with a gauge as their choice for home protection. . .
I don't think it is the pellets from a shotgun shell that makes the difference. It is "accuracy" which is drastically improved by the longer sight radius of the barrel of a shotgun or rifle that makes the difference. It is easier for a novice to control the accurate pointing of the muzzle of a long arm than a relative short handgun muzzle. In my experience, shotgun patterns, at relative close range, are small in diameter. Winner!
The DIPCHIT ADD, after a morning of drinking:
You despair, repeatedly, constantly! daily basis? A despair ninny. Sack up, despire ninny.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I shot an armed home invasion intruder with a 12 gauge and Federal #4 buckshot. It is the same shotgun and load that I keep in the house today, along with a .40 S&W loaded with Federal Hydro-Shoks.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I shot an armed home invasion intruder with a 12 gauge and Federal #4 buckshot. It is the same shotgun and load that I keep in the house today, along with a .40 S&W loaded with Federal Hydro-Shoks. Did he live?
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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