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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by MikeS
A wise shooter once told me "a 10 is a 9 waiting to happen"

a 10 is always an Oh [bleep] moment for me. Sometimes its from praying for a shot that broke bad.... most of the time its a WTF did that come from....


Yeah, its generally a weird flyer. Sometimes not, sometimes you know you fd up and called the shot. I remember last year I purposely shot a cold clean barrel with one of my hunting rifles at one of our centerfire shoots. That was after I felt bad for pulling my CTR out... So, 1 cold clean bore shot, the next one to verify if POI changed after a fouling shot, and it didn't, then the next 8 were adjusted shots...:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I know, it's a scope, its like cheating. I'm like 79s and can't wait for the clubs to start in with shooting matches again. The weather has been perfect over here for it..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
That would be easier on me for sure. I don't have one setup.

Dang thing is this year it will be balls to the wall like last I think. But you never know. Though when fishing we fish 7 days a week...Will just have to see. I would love to shoot again for the heck of it.

Just being able to see clearly even with low X will be a plus to eyes I think. And should be able to see changes a bit while on the sight, which is tough on irons.

That said I've always tried to shoot flags, but then again you don't always have the flags you need, but if you have flags to 600 on EACH side of the range you can usually find one that tells the truth.

I suspect I would have to start all over on wind knowledge and shooting skills, but doesn't bother me. I'm used to starting at the bottom.


What’s crazy we used one flag at 600yds according to it no wind. But why were we adjusting for wind. We had an extra flag and pole so I hauled it to the other side and wow what a difference. So one side the flag be moving in the wind. Meanwhile other flag not doing anything. That was an eye opener for sure..


You have to have the right flag for sure for that wind. A few smokes out there some days will really open your eyes. Think of wind as water. You've been on water. Watch how the water flows around objects... wind does the same basically. Once you figure that out you kind of can what flags to toss out right away sometimes, others to try to see. Best if if you can see an upwind accurate flag WHILE on your sights... thats tough.. at least have to see the flag while in position or its going to give you data you dont' want to see AFTER you shoot... Another reason to learn to break shots quickly once you decide.

I've said before and will again, its hard for me to mentally follow things while waiting on target service or whatever. So I used to be constantly on the sights and adjust every time I felt the need even if I wasn't even in position to shoot so to speak. And if it was different after I shot, even before the target went down I corrected what I saw and kept on until time to shoot... target coming up with shot location I might tweak it one last time and bang. A lot easier once you learn it, than it is to simply type and read.

That said one thing we used to do a bit, shoot without adjusting for wind until you are done. If you aren't shooting an X ring size group vertically there are other things holding you back.

And remember, the 10 ring is half the size of the X ring. a 10 is a warning.


I talked to several folks about adjusting and not adjusting. Some say hold for the wind others say treat each shot likes it’s your first shot and adjust.. I tried both, I adjust for the most part. But my data I always set it for 2-4 mph wind.. use my sighters to see where I’m at.

If you want to learn, then treat each shot as if its your first. But there comes a time you want to win. Then you go with the flow. Sometimes in a string, and unfortunately sometimes more than once, I have had to stop, go back to zero and wait out a weird condition, and then start over.

But how often is your first shot a pinwheel X in conditions? I don't want to do it that way 22 times.

That said you are discussing shading and adjusting. We call em favors. I will favor on a sight but only enough to favor one side or the other of the X. If the favor is going to be a 10 I'm going to adjust and trust my sights not my eyes to a SWAG.

In the middle of a rapid fire string though you often don't have an option. I generally had time to click in prone rapid, but sitting rapid I SUCK at and it takes me forever to get into position and the mag change and etc..that I"ll favor.


I should clarify we are talking to different styles. I shoot mostly Mid range prone. In the AR tactical class, Which is all slow fire we start at 300, 500 and 600. Our fun shoots are all 600yds. I shoot occasional service rifle, our club host monthly reduced yardage service rifle. They do host one leg match a year, which is why I want to get better as a sling shooter.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Ok, so the OP is not responding to us anymore.. Ha ha. I guess we went way off track. Still talking service rifle matches and target shooting, but went too far off track. Just to make the OP happy, I will say that his thread got me motivated. I bought some irons, they are being shipped right now. These attach to a rail and are supposed to be pretty good sights. I'll be the judge of that, although they get some pretty good reviews. I started getting my Noveske ready for the new sights. Didn't take too much time, looked through my stash of parts and found a windham weaponry gas block that was supposed to go on my new WW varmint exterminator barrel I bought a few months ago. Didn't use it because the thing is a tank. I had to ream the holes out a bit to get it to fit my Noveske barrel, but that was easy, didn't cost anything, but about 15 minutes. Well, then I counter sunk some holes in my noveske barrel for the set screws to nestle in nice and tight. Loctited them in place and everything is solid. Much better than just throwing the new front sight on the end of the rail. Here's what I got so far:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
I'll have approximately 24" of sight radius with the new sights attached.

I'm hoping these "cheap" sights as rost called them work a little better than he thinks.. He may be right, as I've never had a set of these Ultradyne C4 sights before...I think it will be something fun to experiment around with though, if they work good..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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You can get great deals on Warner's these days. Or just about any of the match sights - PNW, Phoenix, etc.

If I had a mind to shoot iron-sighted match rifle, I'd darn sure be picking up a RightSight.


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
You can get great deals on Warner's these days. Or just about any of the match sights - PNW, Phoenix, etc.

If I had a mind to shoot iron-sighted match rifle, I'd darn sure be picking up a RightSight.


I'm going to be starting a new thread on these sights I just put on my rifle today:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I'll ask you what those sights you speak of are there... Thanks buddy...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
IC B2

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Unfortunately, I don't know of any shooting supply shops selling the RightSight anymore, it looks like it has been discontinued. But here is a post where an old HP guy is selling his Warner rear sight and his (front) Rightsight.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...ol-phoenix-precision-rightsight.3926369/


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Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
That would be easier on me for sure. I don't have one setup.

Dang thing is this year it will be balls to the wall like last I think. But you never know. Though when fishing we fish 7 days a week...Will just have to see. I would love to shoot again for the heck of it.

Just being able to see clearly even with low X will be a plus to eyes I think. And should be able to see changes a bit while on the sight, which is tough on irons.

That said I've always tried to shoot flags, but then again you don't always have the flags you need, but if you have flags to 600 on EACH side of the range you can usually find one that tells the truth.

I suspect I would have to start all over on wind knowledge and shooting skills, but doesn't bother me. I'm used to starting at the bottom.


What’s crazy we used one flag at 600yds according to it no wind. But why were we adjusting for wind. We had an extra flag and pole so I hauled it to the other side and wow what a difference. So one side the flag be moving in the wind. Meanwhile other flag not doing anything. That was an eye opener for sure..


You have to have the right flag for sure for that wind. A few smokes out there some days will really open your eyes. Think of wind as water. You've been on water. Watch how the water flows around objects... wind does the same basically. Once you figure that out you kind of can what flags to toss out right away sometimes, others to try to see. Best if if you can see an upwind accurate flag WHILE on your sights... thats tough.. at least have to see the flag while in position or its going to give you data you dont' want to see AFTER you shoot... Another reason to learn to break shots quickly once you decide.

I've said before and will again, its hard for me to mentally follow things while waiting on target service or whatever. So I used to be constantly on the sights and adjust every time I felt the need even if I wasn't even in position to shoot so to speak. And if it was different after I shot, even before the target went down I corrected what I saw and kept on until time to shoot... target coming up with shot location I might tweak it one last time and bang. A lot easier once you learn it, than it is to simply type and read.

That said one thing we used to do a bit, shoot without adjusting for wind until you are done. If you aren't shooting an X ring size group vertically there are other things holding you back.

And remember, the 10 ring is half the size of the X ring. a 10 is a warning.


I talked to several folks about adjusting and not adjusting. Some say hold for the wind others say treat each shot likes it’s your first shot and adjust.. I tried both, I adjust for the most part. But my data I always set it for 2-4 mph wind.. use my sighters to see where I’m at.

If you want to learn, then treat each shot as if its your first. But there comes a time you want to win. Then you go with the flow. Sometimes in a string, and unfortunately sometimes more than once, I have had to stop, go back to zero and wait out a weird condition, and then start over.

But how often is your first shot a pinwheel X in conditions? I don't want to do it that way 22 times.

That said you are discussing shading and adjusting. We call em favors. I will favor on a sight but only enough to favor one side or the other of the X. If the favor is going to be a 10 I'm going to adjust and trust my sights not my eyes to a SWAG.

In the middle of a rapid fire string though you often don't have an option. I generally had time to click in prone rapid, but sitting rapid I SUCK at and it takes me forever to get into position and the mag change and etc..that I"ll favor.


I should clarify we are talking to different styles. I shoot mostly Mid range prone. In the AR tactical class, Which is all slow fire we start at 300, 500 and 600. Our fun shoots are all 600yds. I shoot occasional service rifle, our club host monthly reduced yardage service rifle. They do host one leg match a year, which is why I want to get better as a sling shooter.

You think its different, but its still basically the same. All of the ones you mention anyway. FWIW


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Unfortunately, I don't know of any shooting supply shops selling the RightSight anymore, it looks like it has been discontinued. But here is a post where an old HP guy is selling his Warner rear sight and his (front) Rightsight.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...ol-phoenix-precision-rightsight.3926369/


Prices have gone much higher on these match sights as almost all are no longer being made. There are some new ones coming in the pipeline, I saw an English rear sight on display at our State Palma Championship last December. As I recall it will sell for about $800-$850 which is pretty much what a used Warner No. 2 match direction will go for today assuming you can find one...


Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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What happened to Warner? Yes I"m out of the loop. Those were kind of good sights from what I saw and heard over the years.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Oh yeah.. I THINK I shot the 99-3x with a sling.. not a dang rest off a bench. LOL.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by rost495
What happened to Warner? Yes I"m out of the loop. Those were kind of good sights from what I saw and heard over the years.


He is still in business, just not making the sights. The switch to scopes on XC Match Rifles must have been a big impact and while they are still needed for long range sling shooters, we can't be a very big market and getting smaller. Not as many people like a challenge these days I guess (says the Luddite).


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Wow.

Let me think... Kidd... thats the only part of the name I can think of. Was building GOOD 92s for service pistol. Really good guns. Not cheap. Finally got into so much other stuff and not much demand so he basically quit last time I heard..

I really should have bought one for the heck of it, but I had a loaner and thought I was going to go distignuished pistol in 3 matches. And I did. Except for the fact that one of my rapid fires... was on neighbors target.... LMAO.

I should have bought a Warner too just in case....

Whats the go to Palma sight these days then? old Warners?


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I'd have to say Warner by a huge margin, particularly the later 32 TPI number 2s as they provide a crazy amount of windage and match up to 1/4 moa clicks with a 30" barrel. Second would be Phoenix and then a Centra or Moes. I have a Centra for back up.


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You could get a PNW - Pretty Near Warner! smile

FWIU, they are good sights. I'm not into match rifles.


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My mistake, PNW was what I was thinking when I posted Moes. I have a Warner and Centra, but would pick up a PNW if the price was good.


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Yeah, Mike, with these high-end sights a lot of it comes down to what you like - knob size/placement, markings, etc., etc.

But Warner is the standard of comparison.


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Originally Posted by rost495
Oh yeah.. I THINK I shot the 99-3x with a sling.. not a dang rest off a bench. LOL.


In your picture, the rifle is sitting on a front rest and bench.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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You good. Maybe it was another postal type match then. Or maybe I shot with the sling and used the rest for photo. Not sure. LOL. Doesn't matter. One thing is sure it was rusty and piss poor shooting.

Were is that target stuff anyway, I might get a laugh out of seeing that picture again.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
That would be easier on me for sure. I don't have one setup.

Dang thing is this year it will be balls to the wall like last I think. But you never know. Though when fishing we fish 7 days a week...Will just have to see. I would love to shoot again for the heck of it.

Just being able to see clearly even with low X will be a plus to eyes I think. And should be able to see changes a bit while on the sight, which is tough on irons.

That said I've always tried to shoot flags, but then again you don't always have the flags you need, but if you have flags to 600 on EACH side of the range you can usually find one that tells the truth.

I suspect I would have to start all over on wind knowledge and shooting skills, but doesn't bother me. I'm used to starting at the bottom.


What’s crazy we used one flag at 600yds according to it no wind. But why were we adjusting for wind. We had an extra flag and pole so I hauled it to the other side and wow what a difference. So one side the flag be moving in the wind. Meanwhile other flag not doing anything. That was an eye opener for sure..


You have to have the right flag for sure for that wind. A few smokes out there some days will really open your eyes. Think of wind as water. You've been on water. Watch how the water flows around objects... wind does the same basically. Once you figure that out you kind of can what flags to toss out right away sometimes, others to try to see. Best if if you can see an upwind accurate flag WHILE on your sights... thats tough.. at least have to see the flag while in position or its going to give you data you dont' want to see AFTER you shoot... Another reason to learn to break shots quickly once you decide.

I've said before and will again, its hard for me to mentally follow things while waiting on target service or whatever. So I used to be constantly on the sights and adjust every time I felt the need even if I wasn't even in position to shoot so to speak. And if it was different after I shot, even before the target went down I corrected what I saw and kept on until time to shoot... target coming up with shot location I might tweak it one last time and bang. A lot easier once you learn it, than it is to simply type and read.

That said one thing we used to do a bit, shoot without adjusting for wind until you are done. If you aren't shooting an X ring size group vertically there are other things holding you back.

And remember, the 10 ring is half the size of the X ring. a 10 is a warning.


I talked to several folks about adjusting and not adjusting. Some say hold for the wind others say treat each shot likes it’s your first shot and adjust.. I tried both, I adjust for the most part. But my data I always set it for 2-4 mph wind.. use my sighters to see where I’m at.

If you want to learn, then treat each shot as if its your first. But there comes a time you want to win. Then you go with the flow. Sometimes in a string, and unfortunately sometimes more than once, I have had to stop, go back to zero and wait out a weird condition, and then start over.

But how often is your first shot a pinwheel X in conditions? I don't want to do it that way 22 times.

That said you are discussing shading and adjusting. We call em favors. I will favor on a sight but only enough to favor one side or the other of the X. If the favor is going to be a 10 I'm going to adjust and trust my sights not my eyes to a SWAG.

In the middle of a rapid fire string though you often don't have an option. I generally had time to click in prone rapid, but sitting rapid I SUCK at and it takes me forever to get into position and the mag change and etc..that I"ll favor.


I should clarify we are talking to different styles. I shoot mostly Mid range prone. In the AR tactical class, Which is all slow fire we start at 300, 500 and 600. Our fun shoots are all 600yds. I shoot occasional service rifle, our club host monthly reduced yardage service rifle. They do host one leg match a year, which is why I want to get better as a sling shooter.

You think its different, but its still basically the same. All of the ones you mention anyway. FWIW


I’m sure your old crabby ass would say, AR tactical class are cheating with bipods, and 10x scopes shooting out to 600yds. We also don’t shoot rapid fire in mid range prone competition.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by rost495
You good. Maybe it was another postal type match then. Or maybe I shot with the sling and used the rest for photo. Not sure. LOL. Doesn't matter. One thing is sure it was rusty and piss poor shooting.

Were is that target stuff anyway, I might get a laugh out of seeing that picture again.


Go shoot that ol 458 a few times maybe it will jar your memory


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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