Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Lets talk Iron back up sights for a bit

I havent measured, but somewhere around 30". If i were to guess. Whatever it is, its very comfortable and easy to get behind. In all, im pretty happy with the sights. Also, the rear peep is removable and interchangeable. With it removed, it allows for quicker target acquisition, but is less precise. For a SHTF situation it would work fine. I was watching a video on these sights and guys were getting on targets almost as fast and just as accurately as a red dot. Of course red dots are better in low light, but these work well, for what they are. I also believe they were designed for 3 gun competition. The sizes of aperatures im using are more for precision, rather than speed.

Well, the proof is in the pudding. It looks like you are shooting pretty well with them, so the front ap can't be too far off for you.

Thanks buddy. There is definitely room for improvement on my abilities. Keep in mind im also shooting weak side (right handed) because my right eye is better. Sometimes i feel like i have to concentrate more, than when im shooting southpaw. I think in the hands of a better shooter, these sights would do just as well as a magnified optic.

NO NO NO. You can't do anything almost as good with irons as you can with a red dot. LOL.

To be honest the RMRs on our Glocks I sometimes have a hard time finding the dot on spur of the moment. Bothers me a bit since they are our bear guns. But I'm getting used to it. New grip frame on the Glock from Lone Wolf IIRC seems to have made it a bit easier to see them. And taller suppressor sights now help that aquistion. I had a bit taller on to be able to barely shoot irons with the RMR on, and gave up, decided to try the suppressor height and I"m good with that theory now. LOL.

Cats azz to me is always adjustable rear just dial it in, and adjustable front, just dial it in. But not cheap and probably not rugged at all.

On service rifle we carried different size screw in rear with hoods to match lighting conditions as needed, 3 sizes were all we really needed. And of course colored lenses in the glasses for different lighting, again 3. Clear, light orange and light green.

Remember the way you shoot optics on a proven gun, you can come really close with irons so you know its not your form so to speak. Or the gun. Thats a huge plus to me, but I'd be shooting my most accurate gun not the least FWIW. I forget where this one falls accuracy wise.

This rifle shoots 1.1 moa consistently with the 69gr sierra load. I think i posted a pic of one of the targets i shot when scoped, in the black rifle challenge. Again, this rifle is one ive considered selling quite a few times. Even listed it on a different local site. Like i said, im going to start working on a consistent sub moa load for this rifle. It may just happen with the 75gr hornady bthp's i just bought. It actually really likes the 77TMK loads ive tried. Im definitely not out to win any national matches with this set-up, but i think i'll be able to put a little hurting on the local competition. You'll see improvement over time buddy. The 100-5x was a little sloppy, but still good enough for around here. Also, i intend to beat your score on the black rifle challenge, so you better pull ol bessie out and start practicing with her... keep in mind i already beat your 99-3x score..

Cool. Sounds like fun. And if the gun shoots 1.1 with scope, then 1.2 with irons won't be bad!

Me, you have me beat hands down. I have time to type. Just no time to shoot.

And now I get the unexpected call need to be in AK for guaranteed paycheck in a month appx. Will pay for my quarantine time etc... don't want to miss that. And I"m not even close to done with the 284 load playing.. in fact I won't get there now. Got to tied up in carpentry type stuff for folks to pay some bills... Gotta fast track the 284, the 458 going to have to be good enough as is around 1.5 inches at 100.

Yep, excuses excuses excuses. Plus I'm going to use more shooting time to rebuild my 400,500 and 600 yard benches and retop our moveable 25 yard bench hopefully before I leave.

Now who knows.. if I had time to take irons to AK, I might be getting paid to sit around... that would suck. LOL

Damn, you sound busy!!! Good luck with all your projects.

Here's a little update on these Ultradyne C4 sights I recently bought. Some here may get a kick out of these little flip up iron back up sights. I know I'm liking them. They are different for sure, but I wish there was more of a fine micrometer dial for windage and elevation on the rear sight. But, nevertheless, these things are made for a purpose. That purpose is to precisely hit objects out to 600 yards with an iron sight. The graduation dial on the rear sight is set up for 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450, 500, 550 and 600 yards with the use of military ball ammo (55gr.). Not really my cup of tea, as I don't shoot ball ammo in any of my rifles. However, I plan on using these sights in our local AR matches. I have them dialed in for 100 yards, as that is what we will be shooting at my club. Today when my buddy and I first got to the range, it was lightly sprinkling on us, but it looked like it was going to start getting better. The wind had died down and we set up our targets. There for a while the sun even came out. My buddy was getting his Ruger predator 6.5 cm dialed in with some handloads I loaded for him, and also a savage predator 22-250. So, the first target I shot was to see if the sights had moved from me flipping them up and down. As you can see, it looks like they didn't move at all, as the other day I had adjusted for the wind I was getting and since it was calm now, the poi had shifted to the right. That's to be expected. I was very pleased to see that there was not much of a change in the vertical placement of the shots either... Here's target #1 from today:


Now, since it was looking like it was going to be nice for the rest of the time, I stapled up another target. Keep in mind, I'm stapling these targets over the black rifle/moa all day long challenge target because with irons, you need a good solid target to focus on at 100 yards. Don't fool yourself into thinking I can see that little orange dot I put on those targets when they are set up at 100 yards and I'm looking downrange with iron sights. Like rost said in one of his posts, you need a bigger aiming point for irons and 79s suggested the mr31 target for a 100 yards. That is just a reduced down 600 yard target. These targets I use are basically the same dimension, only a slightly larger black bulls eye than the NRA mr 31 target 79s uses... So, I shot 4 shots, then a member came over from the pistol range to see if we had any extra target stands and to bs for a little while. During this time (approx. 15 minutes), the weather started taking a turn for the worse again. The rain came in and the wind picked up bigtime... After I was done talking to one of the members of the club, I proceeded to try and finish off my last 6 shots. I looked downrange and my target stand had blown over. It generally takes quite a bit to blow my heavy stand over, so I unload and walk down range in the rain. I told my buddy that my next 6 shots are going to be chidt because of this weather. No chance in hell of beating rost's score in the black rifle challenge!!!! Damn, I was pizzed, especially when I saw my first 4 shots:



Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that I adjusted my sights over 2 clicks to the left before shooting these 4 shots.....



There will be a day when its not raining like a cow pizzing on a flat rock and when the wind isn't howling like a siren... Sights are performing flawlessly so far. I think I'm going to like them... Oh, I'm running out of 69gr sierra's too. Good thing I ordered 1000 75gr Hornady BTHP bullets the other day from midsouth.... I'll be throwing my Burris ar556 scope back on this Noveske and working on a sub moa load for it, then I should be in the money with these irons...

Here you go

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/sierra-224-22-69-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail-matchking/

Thanks buddy. I have a couple hundy loaded up, but im hoping the 75gr hornadies prove to be better shooters. They will be better at longer range anyhow..

Gonna be tough to beat those 69s!

Dang tyrone, don't say that buddy:




They were my go to bullet, then I tried the 73gr eld match bullets, then the 77TMK. Both of those bullets seem to shoot better than the 69's in my other rifles. The Noveske always seemed to like the 69's better than the other rifles did. However, after shooting a few AR's side by side and working on loads with the 77TMK, the Noveske surprised me and turned is the best groups of the 3 rifles. I'll end up giving those 75gr Hornady BTHP match bullets a try. It seems like a lot of guys like them. They are $75.00/500, so they are quite a bit cheaper than the sierra's... The link John sent me says the sierra's are $116.24. That's a $41.00 dollar difference and $82.00 difference if I would have ordered 1000 sierra's... We'll see, hopefully they shoot about the same. If not, I'll post up my experience on the other thread 75gr vs 77gr . Because what I've been seeing is the 77TMK trumps everything I've been shooting lately. And that is at 100 yards. Stretch that out to 5-600 and the TMK should really shine.. as should the 75gr Hornady match bullet...

Really?! Those 69s have shot very well for me. I think only 52s have shot better for me in absolute grouping ability. Just goes to show, every barrel has it's preferences. And it may just show how few times I shoot for group.

Half the fun is in trying different loads!

Yeah, but most of the fun is after the load is developed... I agree with you on the 69's. They are hard to beat. Probably not the best bullet for 100 yard shooting, as sometimes the old flat based match bullets do better. Or at least they did in my bolt guns. I'm still a newbie to these AR black rifles though, so keep that in mind... I figure with a 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 twist, they are better suited to a heavier bullet than my bolt actions that have had 1 in 12 and 1 in 9 twist barrels..

52/53s might surprise you out of a 7 twist. They shoot VERY well.

I have a sample of the 77TMKs.
Where do you suggest I start? Krieger with a CLE chamber.

Thanks Tyrone. I may at some point give them a try. I have a couple hundred of those laying around..

Personally I'd run AR comp. I like those CLE chambers, but they run faster than others, so you don't have to use as much powder. I'm still experimenting with the TMK's as well, but have noticed they shoot better at slower speeds. Good if you are only shooting 100 yard practice, but I don't know what they do further out. I know there are a lot of us that have been messing with the 77TMK lately. 79s, Beretzs, and some others. My first impression was damn these bullets fly straight:


That was marked "load #2", so in case you are wondering what load #2 is, here goes:


I was shooting in a downpour that day, so I couldn't bring my chrono out. Later I was told by MontanaMan that my speeds may be kind of slow and I should check them and he was right. Running right around 2,550 fps average in that new barrel. That is the reason I started experimenting with these TMK's in 3 of my other AR's and a Savage bolt gun. Just from preliminary load work up, I was able to hit 2744 avg with AR comp in my new WW barrel with CLE chamber, but accuracy was not where I wanted it (1.5 moa for 10 shots). That was with 22.3gr of powder. So a good starting point would be where you feel most comfrotable with as far as velocity. I'm running 20" tubes on my AR's, but that range in velocity is 2,550 fps with 20.5gr of AR comp up to 2744 with 22.3gr of ar comp. Your barrel may be a little slower, if it is shorter...

Nice start for irons!!

Thanks rost. I shot the other day for a little bit. I posted the target pics in the other thread. Shot a sloppy score of 100-7x at around 1.7 moa and then a 100-6x with a group size of 1.2 moa. I was at the range more to check my 22 target rifles for a rimfire match ill shoot this Saturday