Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Current Winchester Model 70 production

I am considering purchase of a new Model 70 Featherweight in 22-250. How is the quality control at the production facility in Portugal. Are these rifles assembled in the USA or elsewhere. Generally, I hear that this is still good quality. Wasn't there some problems before production was moved to Portugal. Thanks for any feedback.

They are assembled/made in Portugal. The only thing I've noticed on some of the rifles made after about 2010-2011 (before they started production in Portugal), was some of their barrels were copper mines. I've personally seen a few like this. One that my buddy has is an EW chambered in 300WSM and it was so bad he got pizzed at it and had a shooting fest with the rifle. Ran that mo fo until it was smoking hot. It smoothed out the barrel, but not what I would have done to it. It went from shooting 4" 3 shot groups, down to 1/2" now. I've also seen some bedding issues with some of theses rifles that were made here in the states. I've had to correct many a poor BACO bedding job... I tend to steer away from the Portugal Brownings, as it's not really a model 70 anymore if it's not made here in the USA... If I were to buy another BACO, it would be a first year (2008) limited edition. I think that was when FN had more of their hand in the production end of the model 70's and they were a great rifle then, with great barrels FN is known for...

Buy the rifle and go kill critters with it.

I'm very happy with mine.

Have 2. Both are excellent fit and finish. People whine about Portuguese assembly... but don't want to pay for the same gun assembled here. They're as nice as any M70 you're going to find, regardless of era.

And pay big bucks for certain Browning firearms, no complaints.

DF

Good to hear on the fit and finish being good. I got a push feed Win 70 with the black synthetic stock and just like the beautiful lines of a Featherweight. I look to the 22-250 because I don't have a blazing fast .22 centerfire and want to see what that's like. I got plenty of .30 calibers and am looking for something different. Thanks for the feedback.

E Blair, do you know what the twist rate is on the new Winchester model 70 22-250?

This. ^^
So they're made in Europe, so are Mausers, CZs, and Zastavas. Who gives a rats azz ? They're good quality.

The ones I've seen are of overall good quality.. Just too bad about the totally dumbazz decision by Browning to install that pos trigger...

+1

Dam fools.

I totally agree.. They should have left well enough alone, but they wanted to put their tramp stamp on it..

Lawyers

And Marketing Department wonks.

It had nothing to do with Lawyers. The old style trigger is a "tried and true", safe design. Browning thought that was the best upgrade the model 70 had seen in 72 years. Damn, they were creaming theirselves talking about this new and improved design... Guys like redneck and myself can fine tune the oldstyle trigger to damn near perfection. No need for the complicated box type MOA trigger at all. They just thought they were improving the rifle and wanted their own twist on it, so they could claim it as their own.. I'm sure you guys have seen all the videos they put out on the model 70 and the new production BACO. Unless you were living under a rock back then. The new one was said to be better than all others every to leave the factory... However, I've seen more that needed work than I've ever heard about with the pre 64's. Like bobin used to say, the pre's were "coddled" more in the factory and when they were sent out, they worked 100%. The same can't be said about the new Brownings.. The problems I've seen are poor working extractors, bad bedding, copper fouling barrels and sometimes bad moa triggers... Most times, though, the MOA only needs a lighter spring and then they are pretty good. As with all box triggers though, they can freeze up and get gummed up on you and ruin a hunt. You don't have that problem with the old tried and true design...

The Winchester website gives a 14" twist.

Is an aftermarket trigger available, Timney maybe? I got a CZ with a crap trigger too.

For fuggs sake.. A timney is not going to do a damn thing, except for cost you money. Its a total lateral move. Read my post above..

Seems those twists are chiseled in granite, no way to modernize?

SAAMI specs I guess. but 8 twist sure beats 14 twist, IMO.

DF

BS must have [bleep] luck!

I have 8, I think, BACO Model 70s. Both South Carolina and Portugal. Never had a problem with the extractors, copper fouling or anything like that. Bedding always gets re-done anyways and I adjust the dreaded MOA trigger. The rifles are vastly better machined than their Yankee/Union ancestors.

Some, if not most of the later Winchester Model 70 Classics had problems too. Shifty bedding, heavy triggers and crappy safeties, soft extractors, crooked barrels, cockeyed scope mount screw holes and generally sloppy machining and assembling. Good base for a build, but I wouldn't trust one fresh out of the box any farther than a Remington or Ruger!

OP, buy the BACO rifle and enjoy it for what it is!

I also have been looking at .204 Ruger in a CZ 527. Maybe save about $400 over the Winchester.

I own several model 70's in Classic configuration as well as two pre 64's. The Portugal versions are very well put together with good fit and finish. The Portugal version I own has a Timney trigger and all seems excellent. I bought it used with the trigger installed.

To configure the action so the old style trigger cannot be retrofitted was a big error in judgement.

DF

Amen. I have a new 325 WSM and it's going to likely get a Timney before I am through...

The old trigger just made life easy...

I believe it was BobinNH who said a NH M-70 was a “project in a box” or something to that effect. The later ones, for sure.

I’ve never fooled with an MOS trigger, but some say with some tweaking, spring swaps, MOS can be about as good as a Timney. Think I’d rather have the Timney or a Trigger Tech.

DF

Yup, it was Bob who said that, and he wasn't wrong. I have some good Classics but they have been far away from perfect outta the box.

Agreed about the MOA, if Trigger Tech made a trigger for them, it'd be on order.

I typed MOS instead of MOA. Not sure if that was an accident or a spin off of POS...



I have an early NH, .375 H&H. It did need some tweaking, but is a pretty nice shooter. Barrel was too heavy, but a flute and chop job helped. Those barrels shoot too good to discard.

And, the old style trigger, as noted by others, can be tuned into a really nice, crisp pull. I did mine and it's great. And, about as bullet proof as any trigger.

DF

HA! It could have been a slip I guess! I'd agree with it.

Yeah, the old trigger is a danged good hunting trigger, but I have even seen Classic triggers that were crap and just needed to be replaced. Sloppy tolerances and the MIM sorta metal just didn't do much for them. I have adjusted a few myself, Kevin Weaver has done a few, but the best I have ever felt to date with the Simillion reworked and thinned trigger shoes.. My God are they sweet.

Nothing like the touch of a master...

DF

Are we ragging on the old M70's or loving the new M 70's?????

I am confused.

Hmmm ...

By “old” you mean NH? If so what era, as quality varies. I assume you’re not including Pre-64.

By “new” you mean SC or BACO?

DF

Well ,

I know every Pre-64 , that I scoped , had to have the bases shimmed. There are quite a few.

I still have them.

I’ve had to do the same myself. They aren’t infallible either.

That... IIRC, I contacted TT a few months ago and they indicated they're working on it...

That's good to hear. Might just spring mine for now and wait a bit to see if TT releases one. I have nothing but praise for their 700 triggers.

I'm confused. I thought the primary complaint regarding the MOA trigger is that it is "enclosed" and therefore more subject ot getting clogged by dust, ice, WD40, etc.

Looking at the TriggerTech website, it appears that their trigger is enclosed, also. I have found the BACO triggers to be good out of the box and very good with a new Ernie spring. Not sure I understand the desire to switch.

Not trying to start anything, just trying to learn....thanks

ST, I don’t particularly care that it’s enclosed but it has a pile of parts in there that could get gummed up much easier than a TriggerTech. None of them are horrible but I’ve just never gotten an MOA down to 2.5lbs which is where I like my bolt gun triggers. This new one is pretty heavy but I’ll try a spring and see what happens first before investing in the TriggerTech or Timney.

ok, thanks for the clarification!

I feel the same here. I have 2 South Carolina Featherweights that are far and above much better than my New Haven Featherweight. Better tolerances, very smooth bolt movement. The New Haven gun is a 6 digit gun bought new in the mid 90's and the action is very sloppy, lots of tool marks and of course the POS OEM trigger is floppy side to side like all of them are, giving you varying weights of pull. The BACO guns are the best M70's ever made. RJ

I don't have any M 70's after NH production.

No bias .....and would have some if I was in the right place at the right time.

But, I am pretty full of M 70's.

I really was filled up when I was in a little GS in Northern WI. and the owner had the opportunity to buy out his distributor's inventory of M 70's , just when NH went tits up.The GS often had a lot of deals that his distributors came to him with.

So I poked my head in the door......it wasn't long until I bought a bunch of them . As if M 70's come in bunches.

I've owned several M70's over the years.

Pre 64's and NH guns. No Baco guns, but I've owned A-bolts from the same era and have no complaints.

I've sold all the pre 64's. Still have 2 1980's NH Featherweights. A 270 and a 280. In fact I prefer them to anything pre 64 I've ever owned.

Been some really good M70's made since 1964. Some better than others. Too each their own.

The Portugal rifle work just fine.

After learing more about the current Model 70's .......I don't think I would hesitate to buy one .On the other hand, the Pre. 64's have much less allure for me .

The reason Browning / Winchester moved assembly to Portugal : is the assembly did not fit with the military items manufactured in North Carolina.

Now , what do you think / know about the new Pythons??

I guess between my sons and I, we have 10 model 70s we use. I bought my sons New Haven Classics because that was when they needed their first rifle. One of my sons is now a brown bear guide in Alaska and his guide rifle is a M70 .375 New Haven custom model he was given as a tip. The rifles I use are all pre-64s: some factory, some custom barrels. I've not seen any of the newest editions of the M70. I continue to use the pre-64s because I believe the actions are superior in reliability. I hunt occasionally in Alaska and when going to places like that I want to reduce the likelihood of any equipment failures. So little things like one piece bolts, reliability of a trigger design become big things to me. I've read a few posts about some of the post-64s having issues and I don't worry about that with my current rifles. And don't let anyone kid you about pre-64 accuracy. With some tuning, the factory models I own and use a lot, can shoot really good. I hunt coyotes thru-out the year and use primarily a tuned factory pre-64 that shoots really good. My most recently purchased pre-64 is a factory .375 barreled action in another bedded factory stock and the rifle shoots so accurately (with a 3x Leupold) that I won't state how good as you'd think I was lying. I don't doubt the newest models are fine rifles, but there are a few things about the action that I believe were a step backwards as far a reliability.

Interesting ruffed grouse,

So, am I to understand , you like me,have no experience with the new 70's ?

mr. cisco: You are correct. I have no experience with the newest models. I'm referring to the very newest ones made somewhere else with the newest trigger design. This is only my opinion, so take it for what its worth. Insofar as the trigger issue alone, I read somewhere that the lion's share of all rifles made in this country end up as whitetail rifles. That's believeable to me. So with all the emphasize today on accuracy and long range shooting, and with all the gun press that has very little knowledge of gun design, Winchester felt they had to come up with a design that felt better to the average guy than the un-tuned pre-64 trigger. My son in Alaska used to work for Phil Shoemaker on the Alaskan pennisula. One of Phil's brown bear guides is pretty knowledgeable on rifle design. In one of our conversations he told me that one of the things he's seen while guiding is that the fancy, super precise triggers some of the hunters have on their rifles have failed in the elements up there. This same guide really likes, and uses, the M70 .375 New Haven rifle, but also plans on, or maybe does by now, use a Ruger 77 for his guiding. While up on Kodiak the last time, I had a chance to handle and shoot, the old (1950) M70 .375 that Morris Talifson used that I referred to. Ross Seyfreid called this rifle "the most experienced brown bear rifle on the planet." When you look at a rifle like that, that was used over 40 years in both a spring and fall season in some of the roughest conditions you will see, and learning that his rifle, along with his partners, an almost identical one made in 1949, both having never had a functional hick-up, then you realize why so many experienced hunters think so highly of the pre-64s. Its one thing to do a little hunting where you're never far from home, or a shop. Its another to be dropped off for 10-12 days in the wilderness to hunt. For that kind of experience, you want all the reliability you can get. That's why I like of old models. But again, its just my opinion.

Yep.. The 'elements' can and will get to an enclosed trigger... That's why the pre-64s and post-64's to 2006 still wear that wonderful, very simple trigger that just plain WORKS, period..