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The cook/political officer was true to reality also. It was the practice for the party to place both a publicly designated political officer and secret political officers.
‘TO LEARN WHO RULES OVER YOU, SIMPLY FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CRITICIZE’
Conspiracy theorists are the ones who see it all coming…
You are the carbon they want to eliminate !
I’m Uber Deplorable Ultra MAGA !
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Another vote for reading the book(s). A lot of good insight is missed in movies.
I've read most of Clancy's books to the point Ryan is president. Been awhile, I need to break them out again. Just finished listening to "Without Remorse"
"There is no excellance in Archery without great labor". Maurice Thompson 1879
Nothing clears a troubled mind better than shooting a bow. Fred Bear
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Cook was a KGB agent. Answers first and last question.
Radiation issues were falsified by Ramius as excuse to get his men off the boat. The book IS really much better, lest someone else take offense at humor... I did read the book once upon a time, and enjoyed it. It does jump around from one scene to the next and doesn't all come togther until the climax. You go from Ryan to Dallas, to Red October to Sec of State each chapter as I recall. I think Clancy was the one to popularize that kind of parallel storyline style of writing. I'd find myself caring a lot more about on story than another thread and then when they started merging having to go back and figure out what I missed! None of Clancy's books ever really made a decent movie but the closest was Patriot Games. I liked Clear And Present Danger. Killing drug dealers has always seemed like a good thing to me. Have you read "Without Remorse"?
-OMotS
"If memory serves fails me..." Quote: ( unnamed) "been prtty deep in the cooler todaay " Television and radio are most effective when people question little and think even less.
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Best one, I can't remember the name, but it's all about John Clark. Great book. Lesson learned to bad guys, careful who you screw with.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,560
Campfire Regular
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Clancy wove Ramius’ethnicity in the story line purposely and it may not have been fully appreciated by some readers or movie goers. In real life, the Soviet Navy would have never given the keys to Red October to a Lithuanian. They would have been concerned that as soon as Ramius made the North Sea, Moscow would start taking on the appearance of the back side of the moon.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228 |
Cook was a KGB agent. Answers first and last question.
Radiation issues were falsified by Ramius as excuse to get his men off the boat. The book IS really much better, lest someone else take offense at humor... I did read the book once upon a time, and enjoyed it. It does jump around from one scene to the next and doesn't all come togther until the climax. You go from Ryan to Dallas, to Red October to Sec of State each chapter as I recall. I think Clancy was the one to popularize that kind of parallel storyline style of writing. I'd find myself caring a lot more about on story than another thread and then when they started merging having to go back and figure out what I missed! None of Clancy's books ever really made a decent movie but the closest was Patriot Games. I liked Clear And Present Danger. Killing drug dealers has always seemed like a good thing to me. Have you read "Without Remorse"? Yes, John Kelly became John Clark to escape the law after he killed some bad guys in Baltimore after they killed a woman that he was trying to save. John Clark killed a lot of bad guys in a lot of different venues, just like you'd expect a SEAL to do.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228 |
Clancy wove Ramius ethnicity in the story line purposely and it may not have been fully appreciated by some readers or movie goers. In real life, the Soviet Navy would have never given the keys to Red October to a Lithuanian. They would have been concerned that as soon as Ramius made the North Sea, Moscow would start taking on the appearance of the back side of the moon. IIRC, Ramius' father was a high ranking member of the Soviet Communist Party, so it was assumed that Ramius was a loyal communist.
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In real life, it is unimaginable that any Balt since WW ll could have been placed in a key command position in the Soviet military system. There was just too much bloody history between the Balts and Soviets for that to happen. However, I have a few cousins in Vilnius with whom I correspond and I’ll ask if they are aware of any Balts that made it to the top of the pile in the Soviet military.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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In real life, it is unimaginable that any Balt since WW ll could have been placed in a key command position in the Soviet military system. There was just too much bloody history between the Balts and Soviets for that to happen. However, I have a few cousins in Vilnius with whom I correspond and I’ll ask if they are aware of any Balts that made it to the top of the pile in the Soviet military. Correct. They felt that only a true Russian would have an unwavering allegiance to the homeland.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Tom Clancy movies are, like "Lord of the Ring" movies, entertaining in the fact that it is interesting to see how the director might depict a specific scene here or there.
But neither the works of Clancy, nor Tolkien has ever been, nor ever will be totally and successfully rendered to film. The written volumes are just too complex to do so. Even a production equal to "Game of Thrones" could not accurately capture either of these authors.
Admittedly I last read Clancy in 2002 when Red Rabbit was released. But as I remember with Clancy and especially with Tolkien, the authors spend much time depicting their characters' thought processes and feelings. Emotions are fairly well expressed on the screen, feelings less so, and I have never seen any director/actor combination who could actually tell us what is going through a character's mind.
The Clancy novels depicting the life of "Jack Ryan" are best read in the order they were released, starting with "Red October" in '84 and ending with "Red Rabbit" in 2002.
Yes, the movies are entertaining in their own right. But to know the story, you gotta go read the book!
If you like the technology, science, and SONAR in Red October, look for another volume credited to Tom Clancy titled SSN. It is basically a tutorial to a Fast Attack Submarine Simulator also titled SSN. The book is written in novel form, and as a novel falls on its face. But as a read along while playing the scenarios in the video game it takes on a new life.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I cannot think of a case where the book was not better than the movie, but I still enjoy watching the movies to see how they depict what was written. One of the worst cases of "movie alteration" was with The Naked and the Dead, where the wrong deaths occurred. Also related to this is illustrators (especially of paperback covers) who do not bother to read the book before doing their drawing. MY favorite paperback cover of all time was on a Zane Grey's "Nevada Smith". Feller had a revolver - I think cap and ball, but maybe cartridge - firing - with the cases just flying out to the side. I wish I'd kept it.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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The Lord of the Rings movies were as good as the books. Not by a long shot. P I think his point is they both suck. At least that's my take.
There is nothing made by man, which cannot be broken by woman.
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The Hunt for Red October is one of my all time favorite movies. I've seen it multiple times, but have never taken the time to read the book. Like Hatari, I've wondered what the cook has to do with the whole story. He just comes out of nowhere towards the end of the movie for a dramatic gun fight with Ryan. I suspect he ties in the saboteur sub-plot. I guess reading the book would answer that question.
However, the one big head scratcher for me is the whole plot premise. The Russians spend lots of time and money to develop the super secret and stealthy Red October, only to be found out on its maiden voyage by a hot shot audio technician on the Dallas completely independent any of Ramius' plans. Bad luck for the Russians? Good luck for the Americans? Clancy's commentary on the sophistry of war? Maybe the book address this too.
As for Mr. Baldwin as Jack Ryan; I really hate, but gotta say that IMHO he's the best most believable of the four (by my count, Baldwin, Ford, Pine, and Krasinski) actors that have played him.
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