Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Product evaluation advice from LEO's

Lawsuit

Get some pepper spray. It works further out, is hands off and is defensible in court as a non lethal form of self defense. Hose the bad guy down and disengage. Is a sap effective? Yep, sometimes. And sometimes not, and any strike on the head can be viewed as lethal force. Some states may have laws that classify a sap as a prohibited weapon, much like a pair of brass knucks.

Entrenching tool. A pretty good discussion-stopper.

My dad had one with real lead in the end. I remember the scenes from 'Mulholland Falls' and wish I had hung onto it.

D-cell lights and saps have been off limits as impact weapons since before I started my career.





Minding one's own business goes a long way in avoiding problems. You really need to research use of force laws in your state and maybe attend some real training. Shooting someone who isn't "shooting or stabbing" you can still be justified.There are doctrines within use of force that important to know and understand such as disparity of force, lethal force, less lethal and non-lethal. Impact weapons can be lethal. Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown are real good examples of this, in that "unarmed" doesn't mean they're not dangerous. If you are carrying a firearm or a blade, there is already a firearm or blade in the mix. Understand that keeping those weapons away from someone who is already demonstrating their willingness for violence is your top priority. Afterall, you didn't invite them to attack you, right?

A good shoot is a good shoot whether it's one shot or a mag dump. If lethal force is justified, it doesn't matter if you shoot them, run a bayonet through them or run them over with a pickup. No law requires you to accept grievous bodily harm before using lethal force.

Pepper spray is a good choice. Be aware of its types and limitations and keep your choices within a small range of reputable brands. Don't dismiss blades as another tool. Again training is important here. Michael Janich has probably done one of the best jobs of distilling blade defense down into its simplest form using the doctrine of "defanging the snake". Some of his vids are online.

JiminIdaho: Back in the late sixties (1968 - 1969) I was a new Poh-liceman in a large west coast city. I bought my uniform pants at J.C. Penneys (2nd & Union) I was/am a taller person and the sales clerk asked if I wanted to save some money and buy and "older version" of the uniform pants they still hand on hand. I said sure whats the difference in the older version - turns out they had two on hand of and the older version. The salesman not knowing I was a rookie smiled and showed me the difference - the "older version" had two secretive "sap" (black jacks we called them!) pockets each below the standard rear pockets. I bought them both but wondered WHY would anyone need two "saps" (blackjacks)?
Once assigned to a walking beat on the original "skid road" I soon found out.
The veteran officers carried a "heavier" sap in the right sap pocket and a lighter sap in the left hand sap pocket.
The reason being the heavier sap was used to put the lights out on Negros and the lighter sap was used on Asian and Caucasian folks!
And of course the heavier sap which was in the right rear pocket was used more often and thus kept closer to ones dominant hand.
I still have several of my old "black jacks" and a few of my custom made night-sticks - I got pretty proficient twirling my night-stick if I do say so myself.
I can NOT imagine the hulabaloo that would be raised today in THAT city should a police officer swat an assaultive young negro criminal up a'side his punkin head (thus instantly putting an end to his dangerous/offensive tactics!)!
I probably turned the lights out on 100 (one hundred!) criminal cretins with my black jacks and double that number with a properly applied choke hold.
Sap's (black jacks) were a great and injury saving and time saving tool.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

It seems wise, if a lethal force weapon is called for, choose one with stand off effectiveness. And one proven to be an effective fight stopper.

I've been a cop 38 years. That thing is useless unless you want to torture someone.

Get a small Gerber hatchet.

Grandfather was a carpenter for a large builder back in the 60's. They were doing a big job in a terrible neighborhood. Guy told GP to keep a claw hammer on the seat of his truck cause they will try to dive in at stop signs. He did. He said one day on the way to the job a skinny fellow of color jumped in the passenger window with a knife. He said 3 quick thumps with a 24oz hammer changed the guys mind real fast. That day he went home turned an about inch and a half dowel on his lathe about 18 inches long. Drilled out the end and filled it with lead than capped it real nice like and fire hardened it so it looked nice. Till the day he died it was under his bed. U could cave a mans head in with that thing for sure.

PM me for specifics.

It depends on whether or not you are LE and your department policies.
If not, it can get you into legal trouble with the same, if you are unfortunate enough to need to use it.

There's options. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I give legal advice. Perhaps we can come up with options. No way to do so with a forum over 50 states and countries.

Whatever you get, the training is far more practical than the weapon IF it's practical and IF its quality. That is extremely rare though.

Losing an argument with a Honda Gold Wing at 60 MPH with a blown rear tire left me with a couple of titanium splints from knee to ankle and 15 screws in there. My "conversation piece" is a hollow aluminum cane with the bottom 5 inches poured full of bullet casting alloy. It's a pretty good GTFOM device that I can use while drawing my carry piece or the half-serrated thumb-assist knife clipped into my weak side front pants pocket. Having more than one self defense option is a good thing!