Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Another Bullet Discussion

OK here we go
Trophy list is Impala, Warthog, Blue W/B, Plains Zebra, Kudu, Eland

Rifle is .300 Weatherby

All else equal, velocity, accuracy etc. Swift A-Frame or Nosler Accubond?

No Barnes, Woodleigh, etc etc comments please. I have these two bullets on hand and the rifle likes them,
Thanx
Kevin

I'd take a good hard look at the 200gr Accubond.I've heard good things about them,I can push them to 3000fps out of my 300 Win Mag.,the bullet has a very good B.C. at .588.Here is a chart based off a 200gr Partition with a .481 B.C.,The Accubond at .588 will do a little better.



https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/300-weatherby-magnum/

Ask your PH.
I'd be very surprised if he didn't recommend the A Frame over the accubonds

Whichever shoots better, don't over think it. First choice A-Frame but if shots are longer which they usually are not in Africa then the Accubond. You didn't mention the weight, it will not matter but for Eland my pick would be the 200 grain model.

A-Frame then Accubond but either should work just fine.

I have to admit all of my African animals fell to Barnes out of 300 H&H, 375 H&H, and 404 Jeffery.

The Barnes outshot the Partition and GMX out of the 300.
Barnes outshot the GMX out of the 375.
Barnes outshot the A-Frame out of the 404.

I would shoot the A-Frames and Accubonds in 180 and 200gr weights and go with what your rifle likes.

They are both good bullets. Load and take both, make up your own mind and report the results back here.

Based on having used the Nosler Partition 180 PPT in a 300 WSM on all those animals, I would favor the A-Frame, . The controlled expansion works, providing sufficient penetration, as I would expect the SAF would as well.

Using your 300 on the WB, zebra and eland would favor the SAF construction IMHO.

Neither.

Swift A-Frame!

I've used both and the Swift wins.

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This AGAIN!

loaded A-Frames for both the '06 and the H&H on my last trip. No drama using either. Just wack 'em and stack 'em.

Of those choices, A-Frame all day and everyday.

I don't know crap because I've never used any of those bullets and have only hunted one game species that would require a bullet that stout. But keep writing and I'll keep reading and learning.

I don't think you could tell from the dead animals which of the two bullets was used. The important things are that the rifle be CRF, and load be capable of grizz defense.

Good bud killed a 41" cape in Zim last year with his .416 Rigby RSM Ruger. PH carried a PF M-70 .416 Rem; he liked the RSM, but said it was too heavy.

So, from what I hear and read, PH's are less CRF sensitive than many here on the Fire. PF rifles actually do kill stuff...

Evidently, PH liked his lighter weight M-70 PF .416 Rem more than the "better", heavier .416 Rigby, CRF Ruger RSM... Guess he figured he packed it a lot more than he shot it.

And, I'm sure the RSM is a better gun than the PF M-70, costs more for sure.

DF

None of the critters on your list are hard to kill with a well placed shot, use the one you like the most or load both and take both. Rio7

If it were me, I would go with the A-frame. Hunting buddy used A-frames on our first trip to Zim and they worked great on everything.

Curious about which bullet you would recommend for the PG cited?

I've had considerable experience with both bullets, and they penetrate very similarly. The AB doesn't retain quite as much weight, but doesn't open as widely as the A-Frame--and frontal area makes as much difference as weight

My only comment would to be avoid shooting a trophy eland bull in the heavy shoulder bones with either one. They are BIG animals, and I have seen their shoulder joint stop .30-caliber bullets in that weight range. However, wouldn't hesitate to put a monolithic from 180 up in the same place.

If you can afford the trip’s cost you can easily afford to expand your bullet selection. Get some TTSX’s.

OK here we go
Trophy list is Impala, Warthog, Blue W/B, Plains Zebra, Kudu, Eland

Rifle is .300 Weatherby

All else equal, velocity, accuracy etc. Swift A-Frame or Nosler Accubond?

No Barnes, Woodleigh, etc etc comments please. I have these two bullets on hand and the rifle likes them,
Thanx
Kevin

The AF’s are the better of the two but as Mule Deer wrote, avoid shooting into an eland‘s shoulder. The knuckle of the front leg is very tough as well. I wouldn’t use the Accubond.

I would rather have a .30 168 TTSX @ 2850 than anything you mention. Remember, if you hit it you pay for it regardless of the outcome. My experience is that the LR guys decide to shoot within 250 yards or so when faced with this financial reality.

Oh, by the way, I have only been on around 22-25 trips like you are planning.

200gr Swift-A-Frame with H-4831/H-1000 will be a temp stable plenty.

Yep.

I'd take MD's advice when it comes to Eland. When it was Eland time I switched rifles to the H&H & 270 gr. AF.

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THIS

Yep

I have used a 200 grain Swift A-Frame with good effect in a .300 Win Mag in both Africa and Argentina. These were loaded to just over 2800 fps in Remington Premier Grade Safari ammunition, unfortunately no longer in print.

I’ve never used either of those exact bullets but have used ( or seen used) a considerable number of .308 168 and 180TSX and 8mm 200 TSX on all sorts of game in Africa, including big bull eland. My dad shot a bull with 180 tsx out of his 300 Weatherby and I shot a bull with 8 rem mag with a 200tsx at about 45 yards. Both shoulder shots and both bulls were down very quickly. Bullets looked like advertising pix.

Ben

My first African safari was to Namibia, for Kudu, Gemsbok, Hartmann's Mtn. Zebra, and Warthog. I took a Wby. Mk.V. .300 Mag. with 200 gr. Swift A-Frames. The combo performed perfectly.

I used the accubond for my first plains game safari. Took ten animals. The accubond worked perfect. I was using a 375 H& H , 260 grain. Took a big kudu and a couple.zebra, perfect mushroom on the few I was able to recover.

My ph in Namibia just raved about the aframes as well. That is the bullet I have chosen for.my 458 if I can ever get back over there.

I have never seen an Accubond make two holes...

Good to know that they worked well for you. My 375 shoots the 260 gr Accubond very well, and I've used it on three black bear now, from 15 feet to just over 300 yards. I've been impressed with the accuracy and performance on game, but haven't yet hunted Africa.

Regards, Guy

I've never seen the accuracy that others talk about with accubonds, though they have killed well for me.

If your shots aren't too long, which they normally aren't in Africa, you should be just fine with either choice.

None. I have found not reccommending bullets saves many a friendship.
Since you are asking, however, personally, were I to plan for such an enviable trip - I hear eland brisket of the grill is to die for - I would choose a 180 gr. Barnes TTSX.

Use those bullets for hyenas, baboons, and jackals just to get rid of them

This sort of died when we went on the 11.5 month airline delay for the trip. At the moment 200gr A-Frame at 3022 average and excellent groups, honest 1/2", is the planned load. Do have time to experiment with others now but not sure there is any reason to.
Very sincere thanx to everyone that was in the conversation. I hope everyone is planning on making up for 2020 in '21. I sure am.
271 days to wheels up as of tomorrow
Kevin

Wise choice on both calls even if the delay wasn't a choice. Have a great trip and I wouldn't worry about any other loads, unless just to while away the time. I would give the 200 LRX consideration too.

Thats what I say. Why not a 200gr partition or Barnes? My 300WBY loves the 175 LRX..

I've had better luck with the partition in this regard...

I've no direct experience with African game, but I'd choose the A-Frame without hesitation... or a different option - the NP.

THIS

Yet another Campfire thread where members didn't keep reading the posts (or maybe never read them in the first place).

The OP has not only made up his mind, but the trip got delayed.

But some people still won't be reading the posts....

No worries MD, I sort of stirred it up again after posting fresh this week but I really did want to say Thank You to everyone that was involved.

Used Partition on 1st trip...A frame on last,,much better results with A Frame..

You can't go wrong with the 180 Accubond LR. Especially if and older or slower twist barrel.

Unlikely you'll need to shoot at anything beyond 150 yds, with the possible exception of the impala. Either bullet will work on all of them - I've taken all with the Nosler PPT 180 gr from a 300WSM.

I would favor the Swift A-Frame for the eland in case you need to take a quartering shot or need to get through the near shoulder.

Would appreciate hearing more details, such as the cartridges/bullets used, animals taken and ranges, and exactly how the A-Frame results were "much better."

Was waiting...

This African threads crack me up. The animals aren’t really any different than our animals of equal size. Surely not bullet proof. Both bullets will work. I have used both. Next month or two we cull eland. I won’t be traveling with a rifle so I will use a 7x64 I leave there. The horror of it. I will use a 160gr lead core bullet. We will take 200+ eland in that time. We are creating revenue by selling the meat so one shot kills. To think I use a 22-250 with 55gr SP’s sometimes to cull plains game most of the time. If I don’t have a head shot I will slip in behind the shoulder. Dead critter

Quicker kills and less tracking with the A-Frame.. Bullet was very accurate in a Tika 30/06 and a model 70 300 Win mag..Perfect mushrooms without a loss of weight..My personal experience anyway..I used Swift factory ammo..100 to 250 yards shots...Wife took a giraffe with one shot in 06..Mine took to two as it was 4 inches off center in chest and huge... With Phillip Hennings in Namibia...Both were180 grain ,,,most were 1 shot..Also got wildebeast.zebra,sprigbok wart hog..Other bullets work I'm sure...

On my first safari to Africa, I took along a .300 Wby. and 200 gr. Swift A-Frames. The bullets performed perfectly, on two Gemsbok, a Kudu, warthog, and a Hartmann's Mountain Zebra. It would be my choice of the two, based upon past performance of the A-Frames.

ManyMoons,

Thanks very much for the information.

The reason I asked is I've been on a number of safaris, including cull hunts that involved far more than the half-dozen or so animals taken on most, with far more hunters than just me--and far more bullets. The total is several hundred animals.

What I've found is that many hunters don't differentiate between the results of behind-the-shoulder shots, and shoulder-shots involving major bone--which tend to drop game quicker. Which is why I asked about shot placement, and the animals taken.

The big differences I have observed between Nosler Partitions and Swift A-Frames of the same diameter and weight are that Swifts make a bigger hole throughout the length of the wound channel, due to the bonded front core resulting in a wider mushroom, while Partitions make an initially bigger hole, due to the fragmentation of the front core, but the wound channel after that is smaller, due to the narrower mushroom. They both tend to penetrate about the same amount, even though Partitions generally lose more weight, due to the wider mushroom of the A-Frames. (The exception is larger-diameter Partitions, from about the 250-grain .338 up, which have the partition moved forward so they retain about as much weight as the A-Frames.)

There are a bunch of good bullets out there today, and am always looking for more info. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Mule Deer ,thanks for the info...I admit we did mostly behind the shoulder 1st trtp and and in the shoulder on 3rd...Our 2nd. we shot 180 Scirrocos and they penetate very well (deep) but tended to not retain much weight..Lost about 30 grains....

Thanks for the additional information.

Were they the Sciroccos the original model, or the Scirocco IIs?

Mule Deer,,They were Scirocco 2.I know there are other good bullets,, but we had such good luck with A-Frames I think I'll stay with them for heavier game but sure don't need them for deer..Want something quicker expanding on deer and pronghorn..Nearly too old too hunt anymore,,dangit..

I have to laugh at the notion that somehow any animal is surviving either of the OP’s two choices (last summer). I personally would choose the A-Frame, only because the PHs I hunted with and keep in contact, consider the A-Frame their preferred bullet.

Yep, a lot of PHs recommend the A-Frame, and it's a great bullet.

But one of the reasons the A-Frame is so highly regarded is that it was the first larger-caliber "bonded" bullet that was reasonably available, expecially in calibers from .375 up.

One of the reasons the A-Frame was developed by Lee Reid in the 1980s is that Nosler quit making .375 caliber Partitions when they switched from lathe-turning to impact-extruding Partitions. The machinery Nosler had at the time couldn't extrude larger caliber bullets, and the .375 A-Frame filled the void--as well a providing good, bonded bullets in larger calibers--which is why Remington chose the 400-grain A-Frame for their "soft" when they introduced the .416 Remington Magnum. As a result, many PHs started to recommen A-Frames, partly because they were also superior to most traditional "softs" loaded in other .375 and up ammunition.

But as I mentioned earlier in this thread, there are bunch of really good bullets today. As an example, I first saw a bunch of PHs exposed to Barnes TSXs in 2007, on a month-long cull hunt in South Africa. They were all very impressed--but were also impressed by another new bullet, the Nosler Accubond.

My point is that PHs tend to recommend bullets they've seen work over a long period, on a lot of game--for obvious reasons. But that doesn't mean newer bullets don't work as well, whether monolithics or lead-cored.

lots of Griz in Africa?

In these confusing times, it's best to be prepared!

No grizz, but lions, leopards, cape buffalo, rhinos, hyenas, and elephants. That is why the professional hunters say bring a CRF rifle.

Swift A Frame hands down.