Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters What is the most sensible big bore for white tail and black bear?

pointer, Indiana just past a PCR season[pistol cartridge rifle]. Rules say min. .35 cal/max case length 1.625". Will include .357,.41,.44 mag, .45LC, .454 casull, etc. My case length for the .45-70 is about 1/2" too long to qualify. Go figure, I can use the 45-70 in an encore/contender pistol with 12-15" barrel, but can't hunt with it in my 18 1/2" barrel guide gun.

Mad Dog

My experience is limited to a dozen or so deer cartridges but I have never seen anything kill faster than a 270 with a 130 gr bullet!

back to the question at hand, I built up a nice 350 rem mag on a win 70 action with a 24" shilen stainless barrel. it was a dandy! I eventually sold it as I never used it (the 25-06) worked too well. a fellow in oregon bought it to hunt elk and that makes more sense. when discussing the virtues of the 350 rem mag with Mule Deer, he favored the 358 win, very close in performance to the 350 rem with less fuss.

maddog- Just found the reference. Looks like I might have an excuse for a levergun after all...

Once again, I find no reason to diagree with Phil . . .

BMT

358 Win, 35 Rem, 444 Marlin, and...drum roll please....348 Winchester. Dogger wants to limit recoil so I'm skipping the 405. 45/70 always works, but need to avoid the heavy loads to meet the low recoil requirement.

Aside from the 38-55 I suggested earlier, another to consider would be the 45-90 in the timeless 1886 Winchester lever action rifle.

Lots of pull for the 35 cal, but that is not a big bore. Big bore really starts from 40 or 45 cal and goes up from there. True big bores start at 50 and then up.

But the most common of today's big bores would be 45-70, 44 mag, 454 casull, 444 marlin, 458 winchester.

Most sensible is the one that is the most common and well know for performance. Of these, the 45-70 is the most common and the most suited to our N. american needs.

I cannot imagine a better deer and bear rifle for shots out to 200 yards. It simply is an awesome old platform.

Maybe I am a natural skeptic, but I don't believe a bigger slow moving bullet kills deer and black bear consistently quicker than a fast moving small bullet from a 7 mag. or 300 mag.

A bolt action rifle chambered in 358 Win. 20" barrel with express sights. Talley Lever QR rings. I could easily favor said barreled action in a full-length mannlicher stock or a mcmillan edge compact stock.

Experience here bears that out completely. I have SEVERAL "big bore" friends and they're constantly blood trailing their game even when hit very well.

What I shoot with my 300SAUM rifles is inevitably found dead in their tracks and since I use Nosler Partitions I can eat right up to the hole.

Big bores poke big holes but usually don't kill very fast. Shock is usually necessary for a fast kill unless it's a direct CNS hit and if you want shock with a big bore you're talking enough velocity with that heavy bullet that recoil is a MONSTER!!!

$bob$

Thanks for making a case for big-bores. Your big-bore buddies follow blood trails because they can. Big holes cause big blood trails - especially big exit holes. Just about any 400 grain bullet with a blunt nose fired from a 45-70 at around 1700 fps is a dead-reliable game killer. If I know the range I will encounter on the day's hunt will not exceed about 150 yards, and if I don't have another new rifle or caliber with which to experiment, then the 45-70 goes along. It's absolutely reliable.

_

Blood trailing is something I don't have to or want to do... That's the difference.

Here in the piney woods there's always a nearby briar patch or swamp that a wounded game animal can crawl into. Blood trailing them in those conditions can be a very unpleasant task.

If you like poking big holes and then blood trailing animals then I'm glad you're happy. I prefer bang/flop.

$bob$

The problem with most medium to big bore cartridges is their bullets are built very stout, so they do not open up that big on small animals like deer.

With that said i have to agree with the .358win, 444marlin, or 45-70 crowd. Just use the right bullet and the animal will be down very quickly, WITH a good blood trail.

The problem with fast moving bullets/ hydro-static shock crowd is that you cannot depend on this happening every time, so then what happens when your animal moves off, and has no blood trail?

Use a rem core-lokt 200gr round nose in the .358 win, a 250gr Nosler partition in the 444 and a 300gr partition in the 45-70 and you will have a dependable deer/ black bear slayer.

Blood trailing, contrary to some people's opinion, is not a bad thing, its actually an art that most will inevitably need for good woodsmanship. When ever i hear someone complain about blood trailing it tells me one thing, they sure as hell aint no bow hunter

All the above advice is good and cartridge choice is generally a matter of preference with the larger bores (30 - 45 caliber). I prefer the 358 Winchester - it has the power and heft to get the job done fast.

These are the two that screamed at me when I read the requirements.

I'd pick something in the 35 caliber or 44 cal.

35 Remington, 35 Whelen
44 Magnum, 444, etc...

You can do what 2ndwind does.

Shoots a 35 whelen with some super duper premium punch bullets and shoot a high shoulder shot.

He usually complains if the deer fall more than a foot from where they were standing.

I often use my 35-284 which is about the same as a 35 Whelen and my Ruger #1 in 45-70. I simply make sure I break one or both shoulders and no deer, elk or bear is going anywhere. I have never seen an animal make more than a step or two before collapsing. I have used Sierra 225 gr Game Masters in my 35 and have driven slugs completly through Elk from so seriously bad angles. Of course the ex sourts say the Sierra is NO GOOD for hunting and pennetration. I don't know, I have never recovered a spent 225 Sierra from any game shot and it will shoot repeatedly into 1 1/4" or so at 200 yards.

Thanks for the varied responses and recommendations. Alas, I am no closer to a decision on an "over 30". To save some $ on the front end, perhaps I should use some heavy for caliber bullets in the rifles I have... perhaps I should try some 175s in my 7x57, and concentrate on shoulder shots? I have never tried a shoulder shot before. I have some Speer 175 grain Grand Slams on hand, I think they are of recent manufacture, perhaps 3 years old at the most.

I was looking back over my hunting notes from my forays on the Massanutten mountain. Most of my encounters with deer have been from still hunting. I am a cautious shooter, and never shoot at running deer. On three occasions, I spooked deer who were ready to cross the logging trail I was edging along. They saw me first, at ranges within 30 yards. On all those occasions they made their escape without presenting to me a shot I was willing to take. On three occasions I came up on groups of two or three does feeding in small mountain laurel pockets. On one of those occasions, I totally spazzed out trying to get the crossbolt safety disengaged on my 30-30 and by the time I did the deer were enroute to the next county. On two occasions, I busted deer up out of brushy thickets, and did not take the shot because they were small does. All of these engagement ranges would have been well within 30 yards. When hunting from ground blinds, the only one with any good fortune has been my son, he has had them walk right up on top of him (I can at least take credit for putting him in his spot). When I see deer from ground blinds, they tend to be sightings right at the end of shooting light, with just the flicker of a tail or an ear in the woods alerting me to the presence of the deer. These ranges have all been within 75 to 100 yards. I think the lessons here are that I am rushing too much when still hunting, I don't have the rifle in a high state of readiness when I come up on the deer, I am not using my binos to good effect, and perhaps I just suck at picking locations for ground blinds. A magnum rifle would be out of place in any of these situations I think. Something fast handling, carried safely but quick into action, with plenty of thump, would be right at home.

Looking back over my last post, it seems to scream out for a pump action centerfire rifle carried offsafe with an empty chamber...