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Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard


If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.





I don't know you from Adam, Paul. But based on your posts I am going to assume your LE experience with the Coast Guard was dealing with coworkers on a boat, or on base. Is that fairly accurate?


My LE experience comes with an asterisk. Coast Guard LE is a very different animal than street LE. It's a different environment, a different tactical field and an often different public. I am always very up front about that and quick to admit that street cops have a much tougher job. Now having said that, that doesn't mean that some of the training, tactics and constitutional law don't transfer reasonably well. I also earned my certification as a reserve deputy in Harrison County MS. I didn't have much experience with that before Katrina hit, and I ended up moving and changing jobs.

Having been trained by the country and the state of Mississippi and having cross trained with officers from all kinds of local, state and federal agencies, I can say that our training and our emphasis needs to change. Far, far more time is spent training on shooting, and on when shooting is legally justifiable, than on tactics and strategies that deliver non-lethal outcomes. I well remember the first time I read in our LE policy manual that a "retreat may be the best option in certain circumstances" I laughed. We all did. Machismo runs deep in our ranks. It almost has to.
But over time I saw that it could indeed be the best option in certain circumstances.

Wilson/Brown would have been a great time to use a tactical disengagement. An unarmed Brown had already tried to take Wilson's gun. We can draw two reasonable conclusions from that. Brown wasn't armed and he'd likely do it again. When Wilson immediately reengaged him, and did so without the benefit of the immediately available cover, he put himself in a situation in which he was all but guaranteed to have to shot an unarmed man.

Had he waited until back-up arrived and/or put his car between him and Brown, we may not have BLM today. But the shoot was legally justifiable, so it was the best outcome right?



That's a long long winded way to say "yes". You are putting yourself on the podium, using your experience as a resume to tell us all you know what you are talking about, and you're not just being emotional. But your experience doesn't correlate with any of the incidents you are pontificating on here about as an SME.


Billy, you are speaking in generalities rather than specifics. I suspect that is purposeful. If you want to take a specific comment that I have made and tell me how or why it wouldn't have worked in the referenced situation, I'll be happy to have that discussion with you.

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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by irfubar
Antlers has amazing deductive reasoning skills and this is an example of his amazing talent...... for being wrong! hahahahhahahaha
Floyd passed a fake 20.

According to Forbes, Chauvin filed fraudulent tax returns for 6 consecutive years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...sure-a-conviction-for-derek-chauvin/amp/

I stand by what I said on the matter. You disagree. Fine. No big deal. To me.

Likely, but it's hard to keep track of it all, the dumbest damned premise ever offered here on the 'Fire. Absolutely irrelevant. But like Pharm says, you win. Laughing.


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Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Absolutely irrelevant.
Not according to this guy...
https://www.co.washington.mn.us/1672/County-Attorney-Bio


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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Absolutely irrelevant.
Not according to this guy...
https://www.co.washington.mn.us/1672/County-Attorney-Bio

Who gives a phucqk what he thinks? you're being retarded here.


"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022


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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

Billy, you are speaking in generalities rather than specifics. I suspect that is purposeful. If you want to take a specific comment that I have made and tell me how or why it wouldn't have worked in the referenced situation, I'll be happy to have that discussion with you.


Jesus Christ dude.

Just hang it up.

You have no clue what you're talking about.


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by Springcove
The fact someone is trying to compare being in the coast guard policing and an inner city cop being a policeman is laugh out loud funny. Talk about apples and oranges. Thanks needed the laugh this morning.


I have been very clear in stating that the tactics don't always translate. If I have made a specific comment with which you disagree, comment on that.


I disagree with your whole premise. You were in the coast guard!!! You have never worked as an inner city cop so you have zero experience as to what the hell you’re talking about. Is that plain enough for you?

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PB will continue to dig his grave w/ his mouth. Anyone dull enough to equate CG law enforcement w/ the daily life of a metropolitan street cop will not know when it is a good time to retreat and seek cover.


mike r


Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
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I have met and worked with a number of Coasties that do in fact understand the 4th Amendment and how it applies to Gentle George.

Paul does not.



Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Originally Posted by lvmiker
PB will continue to dig his grave w/ his mouth. Anyone dull enough to equate CG law enforcement w/ the daily life of a metropolitan street cop will not know when it is a good time to retreat and seek cover.


mike r


Another person who is quick to make a general quip but not delve into specifically what I said that won't work. And for those who are literate, they have read many times that I am not equating maritime LE with street LE. I am saying that some of the skills and tactics transfer and have explained certain instances in which they will. Several members who are dead certain I am wrong are intent on avoiding direct conversation. There's a reason for that.

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Originally Posted by Springcove
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by Springcove
The fact someone is trying to compare being in the coast guard policing and an inner city cop being a policeman is laugh out loud funny. Talk about apples and oranges. Thanks needed the laugh this morning.


I have been very clear in stating that the tactics don't always translate. If I have made a specific comment with which you disagree, comment on that.


I disagree with your whole premise. You were in the coast guard!!! You have never worked as an inner city cop so you have zero experience as to what the hell you’re talking about. Is that plain enough for you?


What LE experience do you have that places you in a position to state that with any degree of authority? It's borderline hilarious that people that never had the stones to do the job are telling me I am ill qualified to make a comment. I'll point out again that you are dabbling in generalities rather than discussing specifics. There's a reason for that.

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I find humor in the senior citizens throwing around that he was 3x’s over the lethal level of fetanyl... and was aggressively resisting arrest.

I get it, not a lot of fug’d up dope heads in the retirement community.... but wtf lol!! Your not OD’ing on a super dose of opiates, enough to kill you... while being strong enough to be physical threats to healthy cops.

Back to your meaningless drivel.

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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by Springcove
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by Springcove
The fact someone is trying to compare being in the coast guard policing and an inner city cop being a policeman is laugh out loud funny. Talk about apples and oranges. Thanks needed the laugh this morning.


I have been very clear in stating that the tactics don't always translate. If I have made a specific comment with which you disagree, comment on that.


I disagree with your whole premise. You were in the coast guard!!! You have never worked as an inner city cop so you have zero experience as to what the hell you’re talking about. Is that plain enough for you?


What LE experience do you have that places you in a position to state that with any degree of authority? It's borderline hilarious that people that never had the stones to do the job are telling me I am ill qualified to make a comment. I'll point out again that you are dabbling in generalities rather than discussing specifics. There's a reason for that.



Unlike you doofus I never said I was. You are comparing a stint in the coast guard to officers in the inner city. That’s it!!! I also said it made me laugh and it did then and does now. 😂😂😂

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Originally Posted by antlers
I’m gonna manhandle you for passing a fake 20. Even though I’ve filed fraudulent tax returns for 6 consecutive years.

Sounds about right.


Your moral equivalence argument is a solid lefty move....... congrats....... hahahahahah


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Originally Posted by Springcove
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by Springcove
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by Springcove
The fact someone is trying to compare being in the coast guard policing and an inner city cop being a policeman is laugh out loud funny. Talk about apples and oranges. Thanks needed the laugh this morning.


I have been very clear in stating that the tactics don't always translate. If I have made a specific comment with which you disagree, comment on that.


I disagree with your whole premise. You were in the coast guard!!! You have never worked as an inner city cop so you have zero experience as to what the hell you’re talking about. Is that plain enough for you?


What LE experience do you have that places you in a position to state that with any degree of authority? It's borderline hilarious that people that never had the stones to do the job are telling me I am ill qualified to make a comment. I'll point out again that you are dabbling in generalities rather than discussing specifics. There's a reason for that.



Unlike you doofus I never said I was. You are comparing a stint in the coast guard to officers in the inner city. That’s it!!! I also said it made me laugh and it did then and does now. 😂😂😂


Come back when you have training, education and experience in some kind of LE discipline. Until then you are nothing but a run-of-the-mill internet blowhard.

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Originally Posted by irfubar
Originally Posted by antlers
I’m gonna manhandle you for passing a fake 20. Even though I’ve filed fraudulent tax returns for 6 consecutive years.

Sounds about right.


Your moral equivalence argument is a solid lefty move....... congrats....... hahahahahah


You mean a 6x time felon sportimg a badge who kills a guy for a fake $20 is legit?

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Originally Posted by Ejp1234
Originally Posted by irfubar
Originally Posted by antlers
I’m gonna manhandle you for passing a fake 20. Even though I’ve filed fraudulent tax returns for 6 consecutive years.

Sounds about right.


Your moral equivalence argument is a solid lefty move....... congrats....... hahahahahah


You mean a 6x time felon sportimg a badge who kills a guy for a fake $20 is legit?


What part of the medical examiner's report led you to the conclusion that Chauvin killed Floyd?

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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
What LE experience do you have that places you in a position to state that with any degree of authority? It's borderline hilarious that people that never had the stones to do the job are telling me I am ill qualified to make a comment. I'll point out again that you are dabbling in generalities rather than discussing specifics. There's a reason for that.
Sir: You are in way over your head opining on urban law enforcement. You have already indicted the shooters of Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, and Trayvon Martin, one of whom pointed a 1911 Colt replica at officers and the other two made sudden unprovoked attacks apparently playing (and lost) the knockout game so in vogue with black "youths". Those are 3 specifics that most any sensible person studying the incidents would take issue with you about. I worked 30 years as a state game warden mostly without any hope of backup and believe it or not we arrested a good many felons. I probably have way more experience than you in arresting people in boats, sober, drunk, doped up, combative, you name it. Almost all were armed with serious weaponry. We also had to frequently go into town and pick up people on warrants in some pretty ugly neighborhoods not to mention helping the sheriff constantly with the white trash dopers out in the boondocks. I wouldn't care to debate you about the three above named incident because I am not inclined to debate someone who obviously doesn't understand the situation.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by lvmiker
PB will continue to dig his grave w/ his mouth. Anyone dull enough to equate CG law enforcement w/ the daily life of a metropolitan street cop will not know when it is a good time to retreat and seek cover.


mike r


Another person who is quick to make a general quip but not delve into specifically what I said that won't work. And for those who are literate, they have read many times that I am not equating maritime LE with street LE. I am saying that some of the skills and tactics transfer and have explained certain instances in which they will. Several members who are dead certain I am wrong are intent on avoiding direct conversation. There's a reason for that.



My general quip illustrates that , despite your quest for relevancy, you have no training or experience to support your rainbow striped theories on dealing w/ resisting felons in an environment totally hostile to LE or the norms of decent society. You have chosen to bloviate outside of the reality in which the incident occurred and with which you have exactly zero knowledge. It may be the time that a thinking person might decide to STFU. Skills and tactics transfer appropriately among the problem solvers that understand reality. Those that don't live the life should recognize their inadequacies. try it.


mike r

Last edited by lvmiker; 08/07/20.

Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
What LE experience do you have that places you in a position to state that with any degree of authority? It's borderline hilarious that people that never had the stones to do the job are telling me I am ill qualified to make a comment. I'll point out again that you are dabbling in generalities rather than discussing specifics. There's a reason for that.
Sir: You are in way over your head opining on urban law enforcement. You have already indicted the shooters of Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, and Trayvon Martin,


I don't know if you are illiterate or you missed it, but I'll type it yet again. Those were legally justifiable shootings. They weren't even close calls. I have mentioned that several times. I had arguments on other forums at the time with people who thought the shooters were guilty of murder. I knew the shooters would be cleared.

That said, I have a hunch that Zimmerman and each of the officers involved would employ different tactics each one of those cases if they had to do it all over again. I always trained my officers that taking someone's life, even in clearly justifiable conditions, would be one of the worst things that could ever happen to them. As surely as an officer must be willing to unhesitatingly defend their life ,or the life of others, with deadly force, they must also keep an eye toward non-deadly tactics.

If you served for 30 years you can probably reflect back on times you could have legally used deadly force but didn't. You can probably look back and see where you employed deescalation techniques that likely precluded the need for higher level force. You can probably look back and recall circumstances in which you are glad you weren't being videoed by 20 people. The LE world is not the same one you entered over 3 decades ago.

I will invite you, as I have others who have refused, to tell me specifically what I have suggested that won't work. You'll turn me down too.

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