Lots of cities burned, businesses destroyed and innocent people killed because of this. Some of the cities ( Twin Cities, Seattle, Portland ...) will never return to normalcy. Very good chance this event could affect the upcoming elections and the future existence of the U.S.
Waiting for all the internet detectives' analysis. Quite a few of the experts on here said Floyd never resisted arrest based on edited MSM video.
I'm no Soothsayer but I would imagine GF would have survived at least that day had he gotten in the car like he was ordered to. I'm sure with the condition of his heart he would be dead by now even if he hadn't tried to pass a fake Benjamin that day.
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Ever try and reason with a multi convicted violent felon high on large doses of meth and fentanyl?
I can't say that I have. I can say that I have had a few of the pleading (several even crying) types like that and have been able to calm them to some degree with a modicum of effort. There's really not much to lose in trying, particularly not after they are in cuffs. I know what would reflect more favorably on the officer at this point. Juries can arrive at emotional rather than logical conclusions.
They fugged up, he fugged up now he dead and family won the Ghetto Lottery.
No matter what he did there was no need to knee his neck to the pavement for that long with FOUR male officers on scene. Roll his big ass on his side and pin him to the car wheel.
And I have arrested and detained people on every drug known most likely. Many larger than me at 6'3 280 yoked out like a gorilla back in the day.
And no this was not murder or a hate crime. Just fugging stupidity all around.
They fugged up, he fugged up now he dead and family won the Ghetto Lottery.
No matter what he did there was no need to knee his neck to the pavement for that long with FOUR male officers on scene. Roll his big ass on his side and pin him to the car wheel.
And I have arrested and detained people on every drug known most likely. Many larger than me at 6'3 280 yoked out like a gorilla back in the day.
My biggest heartache with it, and what will prove to be a big hurdle in court, is why Chauvin did absolutely nothing when his partner told him that he couldn't detect a pulse on Floyd. I'd like to slap the schidt out of Chauvin for that.
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Ever try and reason with a multi convicted violent felon high on large doses of meth and fentanyl?
I can't say that I have. I can say that I have had a few of the pleading (several even crying) types like that and have been able to calm them to some degree with a modicum of effort. There's really not much to lose in trying, particularly not after they are in cuffs. I know what would reflect more favorably on the officer at this point. Juries can arrive at emotional rather than logical conclusions.
The longer you're on the street in the inner city the higher chance of a violent and unruly crowd forming during an arrest and then a SHTF scenario. That just a fact you have to consider in these situations. Again totality of the circumstances. If Floyd was 5 2" old lady with no violent criminal history I would agree with you.Floyd was a very seasoned violent felon and was physically big and powerful and high on drugs which results in erratic violent behavior and sometimes super human strength and no pain response.
Pretty easy to armchair qb this from the comfy white suburbs though. And the narrative all along was that Floyd never resisted arrest. Im not justifying the long term knee on the neck but this will affect the court outcome.
They fugged up, he fugged up now he dead and family won the Ghetto Lottery.
No matter what he did there was no need to knee his neck to the pavement for that long with FOUR male officers on scene. Roll his big ass on his side and pin him to the car wheel.
And I have arrested and detained people on every drug known most likely. Many larger than me at 6'3 280 yoked out like a gorilla back in the day.
My biggest heartache with it, and what will prove to be a big hurdle in court, is why Chauvin did absolutely nothing when his partner told him that he couldn't detect a pulse on Floyd. I'd like to slap the schidt out of Chauvin for that.
Maybe i'm just too much of a jaded a-hole to care after so many years or dealing with scum in the 80's and 90's but I say both Floyd and Chauvin got and are getting whats coming to them. Them other officers were dumdasses as well. JFC grab your partners arm and tell him to move to a different position.
They fugged up, he fugged up now he dead and family won the Ghetto Lottery.
No matter what he did there was no need to knee his neck to the pavement for that long with FOUR male officers on scene. Roll his big ass on his side and pin him to the car wheel.
And I have arrested and detained people on every drug known most likely. Many larger than me at 6'3 280 yoked out like a gorilla back in the day.
My biggest heartache with it, and what will prove to be a big hurdle in court, is why Chauvin did absolutely nothing when his partner told him that he couldn't detect a pulse on Floyd. I'd like to slap the schidt out of Chauvin for that.
I've not the talent or internet connection for it, but I'm sure there is a great GIF for this.
Not claustrophobic is his own car but claustrophobic in their car.
Claustrophobic in the back seat of their car. He clearly asked if he could sit in the front.
Next time I fly coach Ill ask the pilot if I can sit in the cock pit with him.Sounds reasonable .
I wonder why they have steel cages in police vehicles separating the front and back seats? HHHmmmmm They should just remove them based on your analysis.
Video just shows me that police have alot more patience than I do, and also just like every other body cam video I have seen.....just shut up and do what they ask and you won't die.
They deserved each other same as Trayvon and Zimmerman.
Good to know Paul Barnard could have talked him down. Geez
I am not guaranteeing I could have. I am telling you that I would have put more effort into it. It's one of the things I was fortunate to be good at. I rarely dealt with hardened criminal types though.
They fugged up, he fugged up now he dead and family won the Ghetto Lottery.
No matter what he did there was no need to knee his neck to the pavement for that long with FOUR male officers on scene. Roll his big ass on his side and pin him to the car wheel.
And I have arrested and detained people on every drug known most likely. Many larger than me at 6'3 280 yoked out like a gorilla back in the day.
My biggest heartache with it, and what will prove to be a big hurdle in court, is why Chauvin did absolutely nothing when his partner told him that he couldn't detect a pulse on Floyd. I'd like to slap the schidt out of Chauvin for that.
I've not the talent or internet connection for it, but I'm sure there is a great GIF for this.
Slap? You pedal biker you.
Bitch slaps aren't just for women anymore. Get woke!
Not claustrophobic is his own car but claustrophobic in their car.
Originally Posted by antlers
Claustrophobic in the back seat of their car. He clearly asked if he could sit in the front.
Originally Posted by ribka
Next time I fly coach Ill ask the pilot if I can sit in the cock pit with him. Sounds reasonable.
Originally Posted by antlers
About as reasonable as your comparison.
Originally Posted by ribka
wonder why they have steel cages in police vehicles separating the front and back seats? HHHmmmmm They should just remove them based on your analysis.
No analysis at all. Just pointed out that he clearly had a problem sitting in the back seat of the police car...and didn’t seem to have a problem sitting in the front seat of the police car. Which would go along with his claim of claustrophobia.
Not claustrophobic is his own car but claustrophobic in their car.
Originally Posted by antlers
Claustrophobic in the back seat of their car. He clearly asked if he could sit in the front.
Originally Posted by ribka
Next time I fly coach Ill ask the pilot if I can sit in the cock pit with him. Sounds reasonable.
Originally Posted by antlers
About as reasonable as your comparison.
Originally Posted by ribka
wonder why they have steel cages in police vehicles separating the front and back seats? HHHmmmmm They should just remove them based on your analysis.
No analysis at all. Just pointed out that he clearly had a problem sitting in the back seat of the police car...and didn’t seem to have a problem sitting in the front seat of the police car. Which would go along with his claim of claustrophobia.
He also said, "I din do nuffin" but we all know that was a lie too.
Floyd knew once he was in that car and moving he was going back to prison so he was pulling out all the stops in desperation.
That is a Big Buck. Let's go back in time 180 years, take away the meth and the fentanyl, I bet he could have picked a bale of cotton a day. What a waste.
All you need to know that the cops didn’t do anything wrong is read Floyd’s real autopsy. It found no significant damage to his neck/throat and no evidence of strangulation. Floyd killed himself by taking meth+fentanyl, being in poor health and foolishly resisting arrest which caused him to have a heart attack. The progressive fascists want blacks to be angry so they will be motivated to vote. For this reason they are lying to the public.
This is such a Bull Sh***t case. This guy is the new national martyr for black people? Absurd.
Let's go back to the Occupy Wall Street movement in 2011. Just more Socialist BS.
The current George Floyd movement shows that there is a large group of anti-American, Socialist radicals ready to charge out in the streets and start destroying things, at a moment's notice. There aren't that many of them but, they are radicals, they are violent, and they are ready to try to overthrow our country. Mostly, upper class white kids.
They deserved each other same as Trayvon and Zimmerman. Good to know Paul Barnard could have talked him down. Geez
I am not guaranteeing I could have. I am telling you that I would have put more effort into it. It's one of the things I was fortunate to be good at. I rarely dealt with hardened criminal types though.
Mr. Paul: Are you a LEO, or counselor of some type?
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Ever try and reason with a multi convicted violent felon high on large doses of meth and fentanyl?
I can't say that I have. I can say that I have had a few of the pleading (several even crying) types like that and have been able to calm them to some degree with a modicum of effort. There's really not much to lose in trying, particularly not after they are in cuffs. I know what would reflect more favorably on the officer at this point. Juries can arrive at emotional rather than logical conclusions.
They fugged up, he fugged up now he dead and family won the Ghetto Lottery.
No matter what he did there was no need to knee his neck to the pavement for that long with FOUR male officers on scene. Roll his big ass on his side and pin him to the car wheel.
And I have arrested and detained people on every drug known most likely. Many larger than me at 6'3 280 yoked out like a gorilla back in the day.
My biggest heartache with it, and what will prove to be a big hurdle in court, is why Chauvin did absolutely nothing when his partner told him that he couldn't detect a pulse on Floyd. I'd like to slap the schidt out of Chauvin for that.
The world should be a better place without that piece of garbage. He should have been in prison still, likely would be alive. LOL
People that think you can talk to somebody on drugs with a thug mentality should do a ride along with a cop that deals with a lot of the current black culture. You’ll change your mind pretty quick and realize they typically have a lot of patience.
And other than my friends that are cops I really don’t care for them as a group.
They deserved each other same as Trayvon and Zimmerman.
Good to know Paul Barnard could have talked him down. Geez
I am not guaranteeing I could have. I am telling you that I would have put more effort into it. It's one of the things I was fortunate to be good at. I rarely dealt with hardened criminal types though.
How many meth heads high on meth have you managed to have a logical and meaningful conversation with at your work the past ten years? Do you have the slightest, I mean the slightest clue how illogical and manipulative drug addicts are? Particularly those who don't want to go back to prison? lmao
How long has George been drug-free now? I've lost count. He's never going to catch up with Janis Joplin, John Belushi, Michael Jackson, or Prince, no matter how hard he tries!
1.starting the conversation with a gun in the face did not end well. Seemed to be the point of escalation. 2. what was the underlying detention for? The counterfeit $20? Is that a misdemeanor in MN? If so, is it even an arrestable offense if it did not occur in the presence of the officers? In most states it would be a misdemeanor and not arrestable, rather, go get warrants and then arrest.
Which brings us back to the initial encounter and the gun in the face.
1.starting the conversation with a gun in the face did not end well. Seemed to be the point of escalation. 2. what was the underlying detention for? The counterfeit $20? Is that a misdemeanor in MN? If so, is it even an arrestable offense if it did not occur in the presence of the officers? In most states it would be a misdemeanor and not arrestable, rather, go get warrants and then arrest.
Which brings us back to the initial encounter and the gun in the face.
Watch the video again.
The point of escalation with Floyd not showing his hands.
This is such a Bull Sh***t case. This guy is the new national martyr for black people? Absurd.
Let's go back to the Occupy Wall Street movement in 2011. Just more Socialist BS.
The current George Floyd movement shows that there is a large group of anti-American, Socialist radicals ready to charge out in the streets and start destroying things, at a moment's notice. There aren't that many of them but, they are radicals, they are violent, and they are ready to try to overthrow our country. Mostly, upper class white kids.
No. this guy is the new national excuse for a communist insurgency to attempt to overthrow a duly elected president.
1.starting the conversation with a gun in the face did not end well. Seemed to be the point of escalation. 2. what was the underlying detention for? The counterfeit $20? Is that a misdemeanor in MN? If so, is it even an arrestable offense if it did not occur in the presence of the officers? In most states it would be a misdemeanor and not arrestable, rather, go get warrants and then arrest.
Which brings us back to the initial encounter and the gun in the face.
Curious what was Floyd's criminal history? Was he on probation? The media referred to him as a hard working gentle giant who had a CDL and was hard working. and a wonderful father to his children. Is that true? What is the entire background story that led up to his arrest? Was it just the counterfeit bill? Why did they wait so long to release the body cam video? BTW it was released not by the PD , someone leaked it.
Curious if you have all of the information or just media obfuscation?
What is the big deal? If a big black cop had a huge uncooperative white chronic criminal that was out of it on a cocktail of drugs and this criminal happened to die while being manhandled by the police, the white citizenry would shrug and say "oh well"
I am not guaranteeing I could have. I am telling you that I would have put more effort into it. It's one of the things I was fortunate to be good at. I rarely dealt with hardened criminal types though.
I am not guaranteeing I could have. I am telling you that I would have put more effort into it. It's one of the things I was fortunate to be good at. I rarely dealt with hardened criminal types though.
Did I hear him say at one point I was just hooping? Isn't that slang for hiding drugs up his prison wallet?
I'm still disgusted by the cop kneeling on him that long despite his and the other peoples pleas. Pride is a deadly sin. Cop was too proud to back off a bit. Floyd my have still od'd and died but at least he wouldn't have died with a cop kneeling on his neck.
Everything I see a clip of this i still want to kick Chauvin in the head and knock him off.
Chauvin appears to be a burnt out prick. That aside, Floyd was clearly high as a kite. I get the feeling several here would still be on the street arguing with him to get into the car.
1.starting the conversation with a gun in the face did not end well. Seemed to be the point of escalation. 2. what was the underlying detention for? The counterfeit $20? Is that a misdemeanor in MN? If so, is it even an arrestable offense if it did not occur in the presence of the officers? In most states it would be a misdemeanor and not arrestable, rather, go get warrants and then arrest.
Which brings us back to the initial encounter and the gun in the face.
Passing a fake $20 bill is a felony and you can add defrauding a storekeeper.
Did I hear him say at one point I was just hooping? Isn't that slang for hiding drugs up his prison wallet?
I'm still disgusted by the cop kneeling on him that long despite his and the other peoples pleas. Pride is a deadly sin. Cop was too proud to back off a bit. Floyd my have still od'd and died but at least he wouldn't have died with a cop kneeling on his neck.
Everything I see a clip of this i still want to kick Chauvin in the head and knock him off.
Bb
The question I've had in my mind from the beginning, why did Chauvin have his hand in his pocket? Is he getting his jollys? Is that why he wouldn't stop? It looks like some kind of sick sexual satisfaction on his face.
1.starting the conversation with a gun in the face did not end well. Seemed to be the point of escalation. 2. what was the underlying detention for? The counterfeit $20? Is that a misdemeanor in MN? If so, is it even an arrestable offense if it did not occur in the presence of the officers? In most states it would be a misdemeanor and not arrestable, rather, go get warrants and then arrest.
Which brings us back to the initial encounter and the gun in the face.
Passing a fake $20 bill is a felony and you can add defrauding a storekeeper.
In MN, up to $1000, it appears to be a misdemeanor.
The question I've had in my mind from the beginning, why did Chauvin have his hand in his pocket? Is he getting his jollys? Is that why he wouldn't stop? It looks like some kind of sick sexual satisfaction on his face.
Floyd didn’t seem to be much of a flippin’ threat to Chauvin who...as you mentioned...had his hand in his pocket...!
I don't think Chauvin even pointed a pistol at the belly of a pregnant woman though.
lol
Is that supposed to make a difference regarding the alleged tax crimes committed by Chauvin...?
Well I thought this thread was about Chauvin and Floyds behaviour at the time of Floyd's arrest but you seem to want to cast [bleep] upon Chauvin for an unrelated matter.
I'd still like to see the fake 20. Probably fresh off the copy machine and nicely cut with plastic round nosed scissors.
One time in a township in South Africa called Tickeyline near Tzaneen I had to stop a group of guys who were holding a man down while another was getting the ax. He came up with the ax and they were all shouting chop him. I knew the guy with the ax so I asked him what the guy had done to deserve chopping. He said he passed a fake 50 rand note at the little shop down the street. They showed me the note and it was a really bad photo copy on cheap paper.
I talked him out of chopping him up. The guy looked like he had got 50 rand worth of ass kicking already. Fifty rand was about $15 at the time but that was a very poor area and that much could feed a small family corn meal for a month. Made more sense why they were so pissed when I thought about it later.
Well I thought this thread was about Chauvin and Floyds behaviour at the time of Floyd's arrest but you seem to want to cast [bleep] upon Chauvin for an unrelated matter.
lol
Some people can see the utter hypocrisy of Chauvin’s disproportionate response to Floyd passing a fake 20, when Chauvin himself has reportedly filed fraudulent tax returns for 6 consecutive years. You’re clearly not one of em’.
Well I thought this thread was about Chauvin and Floyds behaviour at the time of Floyd's arrest but you seem to want to cast [bleep] upon Chauvin for an unrelated matter.
lol
Some people can see the utter hypocrisy of Chauvin’s disproportionate response to Floyd passing a fake 20, when Chauvin himself has reportedly filed fraudulent tax returns for 6 consecutive years. You’re clearly not one of em’.
It's actually irrelevant to what happened but you can read whatever you want into it - it's your opinion.
Obvious Floyd resisted and did not comply, however he was pleading for his life the minute the encounter with the cops started. However he did not get violent or physical or threatening other then he was big and black. This is all in broad daylight and the cops generally had him under control. The dude was fuggin scared chitless.... i think a well trained leo would recognize the situation and deal with it differently than sitting on him till he dead. Chauvin fugged up and now we got a gawdam mess. Still think there was words between them.
If dealing with uneducated drug abusing criminals upsets you , why are you cops ? Isn't that what the job is about, I mean besides harassing joe six pack to keep the funds coming in ?
I'm surprised that none of the bystanders didn't kick Chauvin in the face. His blood test will show that he was as high as big George, the cop was on something or he is a full blow psychopath, he enjoyed what he was doing far to much !
We as a country, are the losers in all of this, and police forces don't see the need for them to better serve their communities they will be replaced by more idiots like the leaderships these cities have in place todays, democrats will not ever let this die.
Got him cuffed quick. Dont know why after 2 or 3 mins of that act he was putting on they didnt just pepper spray his azz. Heaved ho him into the back seat and got his stupid azz to booking and been done with him.
That groid knew he was gonna face fed charges and possible fed time passing counterfeit bills with his past record.
At least the balloon of fentanyl or whatever he had packed up his azz mighta burst in a holding cell at booking insted of on a viral video for the world to see, unknown at the time to all. Aggravated by the neck/ leg pin to the ground for a excessive amount of time and no sign of a pulse communicated...
JFC.........
Fugging country implodes cause of a dumb groid and cops who couldnt man handle him away to booking.
And the Liberal Socialist Democrats and media minons seized 100% upon the situation to exploit it to the max.
I'm no Soothsayer but I would imagine GF would have survived at least that day had he gotten in the car like he was ordered to.
I doubt it. I think he suddenly became "claustrophobic" because he was so high he knew he was about to code. He would have coded whether he was in the back seat or on the ground or on a train or in a plane.
Lots of cities burned, businesses destroyed and innocent people killed because of this.
Can't prove it, but I think the commies would have found something else to riot, burn, and pillage over this year.
It was interesting that Floyd started the "I can't breathe" stuff just as he was rolling out of the car before Chauvin "took a knee". Could be that the issues he had (heart problems, stress, meth, etc) were kicking in and he was already in the process of assuming room temperature. But his constant whining and excuses threw the cops off of the trail that something really could have been wrong.
Geez, put yourself in the cop's position. This is not a one off for them, this is EVERY FREAKIN DAY.......having to put up with these mouthy criminal lowlifes and their BS.
It was BS from the getgo. I "dindunuffin", please don't shoot me, I'm not a bad guy, I'm claustrophobic, I am not trying to win....and finally I can't breathe. Never once did he actually do what the cops asked him to do. I knew it all along from other footage....you could see that big George was not doing what he was supposed to. And its this way EVERY DAY if you are a cop in one of these "sophisticated urban areas".
I can't even see firing Chauvin, much less crucifying him.
When you look at his criminal record posted above just think about how many charges that were dropped or plea bargain to move him through the system quicker. And to keep the prosecution’s conviction rate high. This incident could have happened to any officer any time. Again ...I’m glad I’m retired .
He also said, "I din do nuffin" but we all know that was a lie too.
You know for a fact that he ‘knew’ he was passing a fake 20...? Prosecutors have to ‘prove’ that the defendant acted with the intent to defraud.
Originally Posted by 12344mag
Floyd knew once he was in that car and moving he was going back to prison so he was pulling out all the stops in desperation.
He likely knew that once he was handcuffed behind his back, he was at least goin’ to jail.
Yeah, he was a good boy.
That's it Mag old Buddy, when a carrier criminal dies in the street, IDGAFF, be it by the POPO, armed Citizen, gang bangers or getting backed over by a garbage truck, bottom line, the POS is dead!
Anybody that talks schit about Chauvin being a POS or stupid is woefully ignorant.
The technique they used to keep Gentle George restrained has been used for decades. Not a single person can determine the weight ratio from Chauvin's right knee to his left. It is likely somewhere around 95/5. This is done to keep the subject from turning their head or inducing self-injury.
Floyd lost his schit because he knew he saw the cage (very common with people that have been in jail before) in combination with being high/paranoid.
His death had nothing to do with being restrained.
1.starting the conversation with a gun in the face did not end well. Seemed to be the point of escalation. 2. what was the underlying detention for? The counterfeit $20? Is that a misdemeanor in MN? If so, is it even an arrestable offense if it did not occur in the presence of the officers? In most states it would be a misdemeanor and not arrestable, rather, go get warrants and then arrest.
Which brings us back to the initial encounter and the gun in the face.
My biggest heartache with it, and what will prove to be a big hurdle in court, is why Chauvin did absolutely nothing when his partner told him that he couldn't detect a pulse on Floyd. I'd like to slap the schidt out of Chauvin for that.
Why do cops handcuff people after they shoot them?
If dealing with uneducated drug abusing criminals upsets you , why are you cops ? Isn't that what the job is about, I mean besides harassing joe six pack to keep the funds coming in ?
I'm surprised that none of the bystanders didn't kick Chauvin in the face. His blood test will show that he was as high as big George, the cop was on something or he is a full blow psychopath, he enjoyed what he was doing far to much !
We as a country, are the losers in all of this, and police forces don't see the need for them to better serve their communities they will be replaced by more idiots like the leaderships these cities have in place todays, democrats will not ever let this die.
Chauvin was high on drugs? lmao. Cant make up the complete idiocy on here sometimes
Obvious Floyd resisted and did not comply, however he was pleading for his life the minute the encounter with the cops started. However he did not get violent or physical or threatening other then he was big and black. This is all in broad daylight and the cops generally had him under control. The dude was fuggin scared chitless.... i think a well trained leo would recognize the situation and deal with it differently than sitting on him till he dead. Chauvin fugged up and now we got a gawdam mess. Still think there was words between them.
pretty much everyone the cops arrest plays the same Im scared, Im having a heart attack ........schtick but I'm sure you know that living in white wonder bread land
If dealing with uneducated drug abusing criminals upsets you , why are you cops ? Isn't that what the job is about, I mean besides harassing joe six pack to keep the funds coming in ?
I'm surprised that none of the bystanders didn't kick Chauvin in the face. His blood test will show that he was as high as big George, the cop was on something or he is a full blow psychopath, he enjoyed what he was doing far to much !
We as a country, are the losers in all of this, and police forces don't see the need for them to better serve their communities they will be replaced by more idiots like the leaderships these cities have in place todays, democrats will not ever let this die.
They deserved each other same as Trayvon and Zimmerman. Good to know Paul Barnard could have talked him down. Geez
I am not guaranteeing I could have. I am telling you that I would have put more effort into it. It's one of the things I was fortunate to be good at. I rarely dealt with hardened criminal types though.
Mr. Paul: Are you a LEO, or counselor of some type?
Retired Coast Guard LE. I have always acknowledged that CG LE is markedly different from being a street cop. Street cops have a much tougher job.
Anybody that talks schit about Chauvin being a POS or stupid is woefully ignorant.
The technique they used to keep Gentle George restrained has been used for decades. Not a single person can determine the weight ratio from Chauvin's right knee to his left. It is likely somewhere around 95/5. This is done to keep the subject from turning their head or inducing self-injury.
Floyd lost his schit because he knew he saw the cage (very common with people that have been in jail before) in combination with being high/paranoid.
His death had nothing to do with being restrained.
He's a piece of schidt for showing absolutely NO concern and taking no action when his partner told him Floyd had no pulse. A steaming pile of schidt.
They deserved each other same as Trayvon and Zimmerman. Good to know Paul Barnard could have talked him down. Geez
I am not guaranteeing I could have. I am telling you that I would have put more effort into it. It's one of the things I was fortunate to be good at. I rarely dealt with hardened criminal types though.
Mr. Paul: Are you a LEO, or counselor of some type?
Retired Coast Guard LE.
How many felony arrests in your career where you personally handcuffed combative multi convicted felon resisting arrest?
How many times have you testified in court? And how many prisoners have you booked into jail and transported to court?
Have ever written and executed a high risk search warrant in a diverse neighborhood?
Does the CG employ many violent felons in their ranks?
curious because you seem to be a bit disconnected from reality
1.starting the conversation with a gun in the face did not end well. Seemed to be the point of escalation. 2. what was the underlying detention for? The counterfeit $20? Is that a misdemeanor in MN? If so, is it even an arrestable offense if it did not occur in the presence of the officers? In most states it would be a misdemeanor and not arrestable, rather, go get warrants and then arrest.
Which brings us back to the initial encounter and the gun in the face.
Passing a fake $20 bill is a felony and you can add defrauding a storekeeper.
In MN, up to $1000, it appears to be a misdemeanor.
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Be careful. Another bicycle rider was unceremoniously thrown overboard last week. After 18 years and almost 30,000 posts. It was heartrending to watch.
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Be careful. Another bicycle rider was unceremoniously thrown overboard last week. After 18 years and almost 30,000 posts. It was heartrending to watch.
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Ever try and reason with a multi convicted violent felon high on large doses of meth and fentanyl?
Answer:
No. He fugkin hasn't.
Which doesn't keep him from running his yapper about something he has no experience with.
I do have experience verbally calming aggressive and non-aggressive/mildly resistive subjects such as Floyd. I can't be sure if they were on meth and fentanyl or not, but I doubt it. One thing is for damn sure, if I were Chauvin the video would show me putting more effort into deescalating. There was nothing at all to lose in trying, especially once Floyd was cuffed. If you think there was, tap into your LE training and tell me what it was. The video would also show me responding with concern when my partner told me the life had apparently passed from the person on whom I was kneeling. But hey, nothing bad can ever come out of actions like Chauvin's right?
For decades I said that I would defend with my life and the lives of all my family under my dominion... your 1st Amendment right to call me a honky or groid.
Didn't really matter why... but I saw the Constitution as perfect and the United States as flawless in her effort to better all human beings... defense of that ideal seemed the least I could contribute.
My family and I were just citizens (a mere few people of millions) ment only to hold America strong with all of our fellow "mere citizens".
I am not a jaded sort... but the older I get the more I realize how few people understand the Constitution .. have read it... or even know there is such a document.
The Constitution has become so maligned with bad laws... it is at best... a tools to fight with now... and no longer a guiding principle document of a unified people.
A good 50%+ of my fellow citizens would see it dissolved for the Antifa manifesto du jour... or whatever "feels happy" in the moment.
So, the Constitution is no longer as crystal clear for me as I once saw it...
...as well as very large percentages of my fellow citizens would slit my throat in 3 seconds to better Gentle George's chances at scoring more dope or passing a bucket of funny money.
Holding ideals perfect is magnificent... but in the world where it is one man... against 1 million rats sooner or later every Knight's sterling armor become tarnished.
For decades I said that I would defend with my life and the lives of all my family under my dominion... your 1st Amendment right to call me a honky or groid.
Didn't really matter why... but I saw the Constitution as perfect and the United States as flawless in her effort to better all human beings...
My family and I were just citizens (a mere few people of millions) ment only to hold America strong with all of our fellow "mere citizens".
I am not a jaded sort... but the older I get the more I realize how few people understand the Constitution .. have read it... or even know there is such a document.
The Constitution has become so maligned with bad laws... it is at best... a tools to fight with now... and no longer a guiding principle document of a unified people.
A good 50%+ of my fellow citizens would see it dissolved for the Antifa manifesto du jour... or whatever "feels happy" in the moment.
So, the Constitution is no longer as crystal clear for me as I once saw it...
...as well as very large percentages of my fellow citizens would slit my throat in 3 seconds to better Gentle George's chances at scoring more dope or passing a bucket of funny money.
Holding ideals perfect is magnificent... but in the world where it is one man... against 1 million rats sooner or later every Knight's sterling armor become tarnished.
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Ever try and reason with a multi convicted violent felon high on large doses of meth and fentanyl?
Answer:
No. He fugkin hasn't.
Which doesn't keep him from running his yapper about something he has no experience with.
I do have experience verbally calming aggressive and non-aggressive/mildly resistive subjects such as Floyd. I can't be sure if they were on meth and fentanyl or not, but I doubt it. One thing is for damn sure, if I were Chauvin the video would show me putting more effort into deescalating. There was nothing at all to lose in trying, especially once Floyd was cuffed. If you think there was, tap into your LE training and tell me what it was. The video would also show me responding with concern when my partner told me the life had apparently passed from the person on whom I was kneeling. But hey, nothing bad can ever come out of actions like Chauvin's right?
Yeah, You Keep on drinkin that "We're all in this together" kool-aid.
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Ever try and reason with a multi convicted violent felon high on large doses of meth and fentanyl?
Answer:
No. He fugkin hasn't.
Which doesn't keep him from running his yapper about something he has no experience with.
I do have experience verbally calming aggressive and non-aggressive/mildly resistive subjects such as Floyd. I can't be sure if they were on meth and fentanyl or not, but I doubt it. One thing is for damn sure, if I were Chauvin the video would show me putting more effort into deescalating. There was nothing at all to lose in trying, especially once Floyd was cuffed. If you think there was, tap into your LE training and tell me what it was. The video would also show me responding with concern when my partner told me the life had apparently passed from the person on whom I was kneeling. But hey, nothing bad can ever come out of actions like Chauvin's right?
Yeah, You Keep on drinkin that "We're all in this together" kool-aid.
There's always snark when you don't have a substantive response!
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Ever try and reason with a multi convicted violent felon high on large doses of meth and fentanyl?
Answer:
No. He fugkin hasn't.
Which doesn't keep him from running his yapper about something he has no experience with.
I do have experience verbally calming aggressive and non-aggressive/mildly resistive subjects such as Floyd. I can't be sure if they were on meth and fentanyl or not, but I doubt it. One thing is for damn sure, if I were Chauvin the video would show me putting more effort into deescalating. There was nothing at all to lose in trying, especially once Floyd was cuffed. If you think there was, tap into your LE training and tell me what it was. The video would also show me responding with concern when my partner told me the life had apparently passed from the person on whom I was kneeling. But hey, nothing bad can ever come out of actions like Chauvin's right?
Yeah, You Keep on drinkin that "We're all in this together" kool-aid.
There's always snark when you don't have a substantive response!
Your stated training and experience does not equate to the reality of a street cop working in the ghetto. You are entitled to an opinion, even if it is not informed by reality. Staying in your own lane is never a bad idea.
To be completely honest I get the feeling Chauvin is probably an asswhole but he's not responsible for Floyds death. Floyd is responsible for Floyds death.
If Chauvin is responsible for Floyds death Floyds family should be thanking Chauvin, he finally got George to do something worthwhile for the family............
One thing about it: I wouldn't want Chauvin policing my neighborhood. I wouldn't want him talking to my kids. He seems pretty indifferent and jaded. I blame the fact that he ends up having to deal with all of those worthless C h i m p s.
White and blacks went nutzo over Chauvin’s facial expression while his knee was on George Money Floyd’s neck....
Seeing what they described as a look of superiority and uncaring, and then claiming he’s guilty of murder....
It’s exactly the same thing people said about that high school white kid wearing a Trump hat who was face to face with that fake Indian protester.
Assuming an intentional act based on a facial impression cost the media millions of dollars in payments to the high schooler who sued for being made out as a villain, when in fact, he was the victim.
Get ready to wash out your panties after Chauvin and company walk free....If, they get a fair trial.
For decades I said that I would defend with my life and the lives of all my family under my dominion... your 1st Amendment right to call me a honky or groid.
Exactly!! And I can tell you that in the mid 80's (85/86) in the military (USN) it was perfectly fine for blacks to call us whites "Crackers" but in no uncertain terms would I have ever called a black person a N igger.
I had a bunch of black friends but I wouldn't even call them that in jest, but they sure did to me (which didn't bother me at all).
To be completely honest I get the feeling Chauvin is probably an asswhole but he's not responsible for Floyds death. Floyd is responsible for Floyds death.
If Chauvin is responsible for Floyds death Floyds family should be thanking Chauvin, he finally got George to do something worthwhile for the family............
Agreed, queen george ruptured the sack of dope she had in her nasty ass, fentanyl OD, BOOM! good riddance you liver lipped sombitch!
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Ever try and reason with a multi convicted violent felon high on large doses of meth and fentanyl?
Answer:
No. He fugkin hasn't.
Which doesn't keep him from running his yapper about something he has no experience with.
I do have experience verbally calming aggressive and non-aggressive/mildly resistive subjects such as Floyd. I can't be sure if they were on meth and fentanyl or not, but I doubt it. One thing is for damn sure, if I were Chauvin the video would show me putting more effort into deescalating. There was nothing at all to lose in trying, especially once Floyd was cuffed. If you think there was, tap into your LE training and tell me what it was. The video would also show me responding with concern when my partner told me the life had apparently passed from the person on whom I was kneeling. But hey, nothing bad can ever come out of actions like Chauvin's right?
Yeah, You Keep on drinkin that "We're all in this together" kool-aid.
There's always snark when you don't have a substantive response!
Your stated training and experience does not equate to the reality of a street cop working in the ghetto. You are entitled to an opinion, even if it is not informed by reality. Staying in your own lane is never a bad idea.
mike r
Mike, how would it have made matters worse for Chauvin to have made greater efforts to calm Floyd, especially after he was handcuffed? Root your response in your law enforcement training or experience.
White and blacks went nutzo over Chauvin’s facial expression while his knee was on George Money Floyd’s neck....
Seeing what they described as a look of superiority and uncaring, and then claiming he’s guilty of murder....
It’s exactly the same thing people said about that high school white kid wearing a Trump hat who was face to face with that fake Indian protester.
Assuming an intentional act based on a facial impression cost the media millions of dollars in payments to the high schooler who sued for being made out as a villain, when in fact, he was the victim.
Get ready to wash out your panties after Chauvin and company walk free....If, they get a fair trial.
😎
The legal case against Chauvin is not a slam dunk one way or another. Chauvin's utter lack of concern/action as he was told Floyd was without a pulse is morally reprehensible. I expect peace officers to possess a little more humanity than that. It's not like Floyd had committed a violent crime that brought him into contact with the officers. He didn't assault the officers.
What I don't understand is why Chauvin kept kneeling on Floyd's neck after he knew Floyd did not have a pulse, AND he knew that the other groids were videoing him doing that.
Doesn't make any sense.
If I wanted to do something bad I sure wouldn't do it on camera.
PB, a fair question that serves to illustrate your lack of experience. In certain communities [the ghetto] it is common for the arrested to make a lot of noise hoping to attract and incite the locals in hope of escape and to garner street cred. It is good practice to restrain, search and transport the subject before a hostile and belligerent crowd can form. In these environs the indigenous peoples do not cooperate in a manner expected of normal citizens.
Try investigating a shooting in a gang controlled neighborhood. Killers of children will not be identified.
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Ever try and reason with a multi convicted violent felon high on large doses of meth and fentanyl?
Answer:
No. He fugkin hasn't.
Which doesn't keep him from running his yapper about something he has no experience with.
I do have experience verbally calming aggressive and non-aggressive/mildly resistive subjects such as Floyd. I can't be sure if they were on meth and fentanyl or not, but I doubt it. One thing is for damn sure, if I were Chauvin the video would show me putting more effort into deescalating. There was nothing at all to lose in trying, especially once Floyd was cuffed. If you think there was, tap into your LE training and tell me what it was. The video would also show me responding with concern when my partner told me the life had apparently passed from the person on whom I was kneeling. But hey, nothing bad can ever come out of actions like Chauvin's right?
Yeah, You Keep on drinkin that "We're all in this together" kool-aid.
There's always snark when you don't have a substantive response!My
Your stated training and experience does not equate to the reality of a street cop working in the ghetto. You are entitled to an opinion, even if it is not informed by reality. Staying in your own lane is never a bad idea.
mike r
My substantive response is you have neither the training nor the experience to make that kind of judgment call..
What I don't understand is why Chauvin kept kneeling on Floyd's neck after he knew Floyd did not have a pulse, AND he knew that the other groids were videoing him doing that.
Doesn't make any sense.
If I wanted to do something bad I sure wouldn't do it on camera.
What I don't understand is why Chauvin kept kneeling on Floyd's neck after he knew Floyd did not have a pulse, AND he knew that the other groids were videoing him doing that.
Doesn't make any sense.
If I wanted to do something bad I sure wouldn't do it on camera.
Doing what on camera? Making a legit arrest, using a police sanctioned and authorized training method?
Saint George died from a butt full of drugs he onboarded himself causing his heart to explode from the trauma he created knowing he just blew his parole and was headed back to the can.
Move past the liberal and black folk screaming and crying.
What I don't understand is why Chauvin kept kneeling on Floyd's neck after he knew Floyd did not have a pulse, AND he knew that the other groids were videoing him doing that.
Doesn't make any sense.
If I wanted to do something bad I sure wouldn't do it on camera.
Anyone who doesn't think Chauvin killed floyd has got his head firmly planted in his arse hole
And covid has killed 10% of our country's population too.....right? 30 million?
Quit letting the liberal media fill in the blanks for you.
Originally Posted by johnn
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
What I don't understand is why Chauvin kept kneeling on Floyd's neck after he knew Floyd did not have a pulse, AND he knew that the other groids were videoing him doing that.
Doesn't make any sense.
If I wanted to do something bad I sure wouldn't do it on camera.
Anyone who doesn't think Chauvin killed floyd has got his head firmly planted in his arse hole
What I don't understand is why Chauvin kept kneeling on Floyd's neck after he knew Floyd did not have a pulse, AND he knew that the other groids were videoing him doing that.
Doesn't make any sense.
If I wanted to do something bad I sure wouldn't do it on camera.
Anyone who doesn't think Chauvin killed floyd has got his head firmly planted in his arse hole
Yep great analysis. Did you watch the arrest body cam video? An Overdose of fentanyl and meth sure can't kill a life long drug addict with heart problems. lmao
Anybody that talks schit about Chauvin being a POS or stupid is woefully ignorant.
The technique they used to keep Gentle George restrained has been used for decades. Not a single person can determine the weight ratio from Chauvin's right knee to his left. It is likely somewhere around 95/5. This is done to keep the subject from turning their head or inducing self-injury.
Floyd lost his schit because he knew he saw the cage (very common with people that have been in jail before) in combination with being high/paranoid.
His death had nothing to do with being restrained.
He's a piece of schidt for showing absolutely NO concern and taking no action when his partner told him Floyd had no pulse. A steaming pile of schidt.
You might not suck a black convict cock, but you'd hold one in your mouth till a f a g came along.
And covid has killed 10% of our country's population too.....right? 30 million?
Quit letting the liberal media fill in the blanks for you.
Originally Posted by johnn
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
What I don't understand is why Chauvin kept kneeling on Floyd's neck after he knew Floyd did not have a pulse, AND he knew that the other groids were videoing him doing that.
Doesn't make any sense.
If I wanted to do something bad I sure wouldn't do it on camera.
Anyone who doesn't think Chauvin killed floyd has got his head firmly planted in his arse hole
What I don't understand is why Chauvin kept kneeling on Floyd's neck after he knew Floyd did not have a pulse, AND he knew that the other groids were videoing him doing that.
Doesn't make any sense.
If I wanted to do something bad I sure wouldn't do it on camera.
Anyone who doesn't think Chauvin killed floyd has got his head firmly planted in his arse hole
Yep great analysis. Did you watch the arrest body cam video? An Overdose of fentanyl and meth sure can't kill a life long drug addict with heart problems. lmao
Easy to see why so many white daughters are pushing the BBC agenda, isn't it?
What I don't understand is why Chauvin kept kneeling on Floyd's neck after he knew Floyd did not have a pulse, AND he knew that the other groids were videoing him doing that.
Doesn't make any sense.
If I wanted to do something bad I sure wouldn't do it on camera.
Anyone who doesn't think Chauvin killed floyd has got his head firmly planted in his arse hole
Can you copy and paste the part of the autopsy that supports your assertion?
Anybody that talks schit about Chauvin being a POS or stupid is woefully ignorant.
The technique they used to keep Gentle George restrained has been used for decades. Not a single person can determine the weight ratio from Chauvin's right knee to his left. It is likely somewhere around 95/5. This is done to keep the subject from turning their head or inducing self-injury.
Floyd lost his schit because he knew he saw the cage (very common with people that have been in jail before) in combination with being high/paranoid.
His death had nothing to do with being restrained.
He's a piece of schidt for showing absolutely NO concern and taking no action when his partner told him Floyd had no pulse. A steaming pile of schidt.
You might not suck a black convict cock, but you'd hold one in your mouth till a f a g came along.
Anybody that talks schit about Chauvin being a POS or stupid is woefully ignorant.
The technique they used to keep Gentle George restrained has been used for decades. Not a single person can determine the weight ratio from Chauvin's right knee to his left. It is likely somewhere around 95/5. This is done to keep the subject from turning their head or inducing self-injury.
Floyd lost his schit because he knew he saw the cage (very common with people that have been in jail before) in combination with being high/paranoid.
His death had nothing to do with being restrained.
He's a piece of schidt for showing absolutely NO concern and taking no action when his partner told him Floyd had no pulse. A steaming pile of schidt.
You might not suck a black convict cock, but you'd hold one in your mouth till a f a g came along.
That's about what I'd expect from an intellectually vacant blowhard like you.
PB has struck me over the past few months that I've actually paid any attention to this website... as a reasonable and intelligent man.
This site has more drive-by cheap shot shooters than Chicago.
With all of that said... I struggle with the sanitary perfection by which he views George's arrest... or the failing there in.
I respect that he has ideals... and am in some way jealous of this...
But my ideals are long gone... filthy vile vermin dashed the small pocket change compassion that I tried to keep around, so the next time I found a 15 girl gang raped behind a dumpster... or a dead hooker decomposing in an abandoned home... in an abandoned neighborhood... in an abandoned city run by fools for decades... I could even slightly care.
I wish there was a way to despise those animals less...
I wish I had Paul's hope for better, cleaner and kinder society.
PB has struck me over the past few months that I've actually paid any attention to this website... as a reasonable and intelligent man.
If you were a defendant would you want PaulCovtard on the jury, knowin he's only interested in "how things look" rather than what actually happened?
Fair enough...
I have never met Paul...
I have never met Chauvin...
I never met George...
Hard math and Engineering types... are the only folks that really ever make any sense to me... but mostly that is my fault... I think my compassion chromosome got clobbered with mom's thalidomide meds.
PB has struck me over the past few months that I've actually paid any attention to this website... as a reasonable and intelligent man.
If you were a defendant would you want PaulCovtard on the jury, knowin he's only interested in "how things look" rather than what actually happened?
Paul's a decent guy and does have his moments of lucidity .... at times. And I give him credit for taking criticism
I am not at all afraid to take the heat. LE is going to change. It is going to change sooner rather than later. Many of the values I espouse will be more strongly emphasized in training and will receive greater cultural acceptance within the LE community.
I am not at all afraid to take the heat. LE is going to change. It is going to change sooner rather than later. Many of the values I espouse will be more strongly emphasized in training and will receive greater cultural acceptance within the LE community. [/quote]
Oh I agree. Back to community policing. That being said the community and black leaders have to step up and come on board, stop the race baiting, anti snitch campaigns etc otherwise, community policing will never work. And a lot of departments, even the small rural ones, have became too militarized relying on SWAT teams. Seems every cop wants to be on the SWAT team and not be a cop. I was on SWAT 20 years ago and the mentality sure has changed. And Ive had so many SW's, evidence, possible CI's and witnesses figged up by SWAT teams I ve lost count.
Police Mgt have to acknowledge PTSD and burn out is a big issue with veteran cops and need to address fixing this.
PB has struck me over the past few months that I've actually paid any attention to this website... as a reasonable and intelligent man.
If you were a defendant would you want PaulCovtard on the jury, knowin he's only interested in "how things look" rather than what actually happened?
Fair enough...
I have never met Paul...
I have never met Chauvin...
I never met George...
Hard math and Engineering types... are the only folks that really ever make any sense to me... but mostly that is my fault... I think my compassion chromosome got clobbered with mom's thalidomide meds.
These cases have nothing to do with meeting or knowing people.
It has to do with understanding the Constitution and how it applies to the use of force by police in the United States.
It's not law enforcement that requires a change of behavior.
Mike, I beg to differ. Tactics and priorities must evolve with society. Remember how we used to fill the jails up with recreational pot smokers? Now in most jurisdictions a small amount of pot won't get you arrested. Hell, it won't even get you a ticket. Cops walk past pot smokers in downtown NOLA all the time.
PB has struck me over the past few months that I've actually paid any attention to this website... as a reasonable and intelligent man.
If you were a defendant would you want PaulCovtard on the jury, knowin he's only interested in "how things look" rather than what actually happened?
Paul's a decent guy and does have his moments of lucidity .... at times. And I give him credit for taking criticism
I am not at all afraid to take the heat. LE is going to change. It is going to change sooner rather than later. Many of the values I espouse will be more strongly emphasized in training and will receive greater cultural acceptance within the LE community.
On that point I will actually disagree.
The LEO community will be told to stand softer or stand down to future Floyd types...
This will be a force multiplier for crime and criminals... and in the end... that softshoe will harm and kill far more people... mostly innocent victims.
Crime will double to 4x in cities like Minneapolis...
Anybody that talks schit about Chauvin being a POS or stupid is woefully ignorant.
The technique they used to keep Gentle George restrained has been used for decades. Not a single person can determine the weight ratio from Chauvin's right knee to his left. It is likely somewhere around 95/5. This is done to keep the subject from turning their head or inducing self-injury.
Floyd lost his schit because he knew he saw the cage (very common with people that have been in jail before) in combination with being high/paranoid.
His death had nothing to do with being restrained.
He's a piece of schidt for showing absolutely NO concern and taking no action when his partner told him Floyd had no pulse. A steaming pile of schidt.
You might not suck a black convict cock, but you'd hold one in your mouth till a f a g came along.
That's about what I'd expect from an intellectually vacant blowhard like you.
Says a guy that spent his career sucking dick at MSO's/MSD's.
Excessive drug use and a lack of respect for law and order is our future?
No thanks.
I take no responsibility for their cultural decline. Every government program is there.....no more excuses.
No free reparation money. No free get-out-of-jail card.
Repeat customers get special treatment.
How much child-support did Floyd pay? Or.......how much did 'we' pay for Floyd's child, because Mom didn't put Dad's name on the birth certificate?
Who, again, should change their behavior?
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by MIKEWERNER
It's not law enforcement that requires a change of behavior.
Mike, I beg to differ. Tactics and priorities must evolve with society. Remember how we used to fill the jails up with recreational pot smokers? Now in most jurisdictions a small amount of pot won't get you arrested. Hell, it won't even get you a ticket. Cops walk past pot smokers in downtown NOLA all the time.
Anybody that talks schit about Chauvin being a POS or stupid is woefully ignorant.
The technique they used to keep Gentle George restrained has been used for decades. Not a single person can determine the weight ratio from Chauvin's right knee to his left. It is likely somewhere around 95/5. This is done to keep the subject from turning their head or inducing self-injury.
Floyd lost his schit because he knew he saw the cage (very common with people that have been in jail before) in combination with being high/paranoid.
His death had nothing to do with being restrained.
He's a piece of schidt for showing absolutely NO concern and taking no action when his partner told him Floyd had no pulse. A steaming pile of schidt.
You might not suck a black convict cock, but you'd hold one in your mouth till a f a g came along.
These cases have nothing to do with meeting or knowing people.
It has to do with understanding the Constitution and how it applies to the use of force by police in the United States.
You do know that Pelosi has rewritten the preamble?
"We the People of our New World Order to form a more happy populus, eliminate justice, insure domestic terror as providence for no common defense or law, promote Welfare, and seize the Blessings of the wealthy for ourselves and for the Posterity of all victims now and forever do ordain and establish this revised Constitution for the United States of America."
PB has struck me over the past few months that I've actually paid any attention to this website... as a reasonable and intelligent man.
If you were a defendant would you want PaulCovtard on the jury, knowin he's only interested in "how things look" rather than what actually happened?
Fair enough...
I have never met Paul...
I have never met Chauvin...
I never met George...
Hard math and Engineering types... are the only folks that really ever make any sense to me... but mostly that is my fault... I think my compassion chromosome got clobbered with mom's thalidomide meds.
These cases have nothing to do with meeting or knowing people.
It has to do with understanding the Constitution and how it applies to the use of force by police in the United States.
I am looking at this from sveral different angles. The human side, the legal side, the tactical side and the cost/benefit side. I find Chauvin's utter disconcern when the life passed out of Floyd's body detestable. I expect better from a peace officer whose duty is to serve an protect.
Then there's the legal side. Does an officer have a legal responsibility for a person when the officer seizes that person? All I'll say about that is that it's not a legal slam dunk. Does anyone here think that if this goes to trial the jury decision will be unanimous one way or another?
FWIW I have been batting .1000 on the legal outcomes of some of these high profile cases. Zimmerman, Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, Alton Sterling and Eric Garner to name a few. With the exception of the Sterling case, the officers could have made tactical decisions that would have precluded their need to use the force they did when they did. Cops don't like to be second guessed. I say we are cheating ourselves out of an opportunity to learn and grow if we don't look for ways to achieve better outcomes.
When a non-aggressive man ends up dead and riots, mayhem and destruction envelop a country, all over the passing of a small amount of counterfeit , smart people will question what could have been done better or differently. Officer's decision making is going to become more complicated in the future. Temporary tactical disengagement or even momentary retreat will become more routine.
Excessive drug use and a lack of respect for law and order is our future?
No thanks.
I take no responsibility for their cultural decline. Every government program is there.....no more excuses.
No free reparation money. No free get-out-of-jail card.
A repeat customer got special treatment.
How much child-support did Floyd pay? Or.......how much did 'we' pay for Floyd's child, because Mom didn't put Dad's name on the birth certificate?
Who again should change their behavior?
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by MIKEWERNER
It's not law enforcement that requires a change of behavior.
Mike, I beg to differ. Tactics and priorities must evolve with society. Remember how we used to fill the jails up with recreational pot smokers? Now in most jurisdictions a small amount of pot won't get you arrested. Hell, it won't even get you a ticket. Cops walk past pot smokers in downtown NOLA all the time.
I am not denying that The George Floyd's of this world don't need to change their behavior. It may have been this thread in which I opined that the value of compliance is grossly undersold. Until then our LE community will have to adapt. There will be growing pains.
The goal of communists like Covtard is for the police to stop law enforcement, as it is a step towards anarchy that the communists dream will allow them to take over the country.
Organized, funded terrorism isn't an argument in support of emasculating the police.
Anybody that talks schit about Chauvin being a POS or stupid is woefully ignorant.
The technique they used to keep Gentle George restrained has been used for decades. Not a single person can determine the weight ratio from Chauvin's right knee to his left. It is likely somewhere around 95/5. This is done to keep the subject from turning their head or inducing self-injury.
Floyd lost his schit because he knew he saw the cage (very common with people that have been in jail before) in combination with being high/paranoid.
His death had nothing to do with being restrained.
He's a piece of schidt for showing absolutely NO concern and taking no action when his partner told him Floyd had no pulse. A steaming pile of schidt.
You might not suck a black convict cock, but you'd hold one in your mouth till a f a g came along.
That's about what I'd expect from an intellectually vacant blowhard like you.
Says a guy that spent his career sucking dick at MSO's/MSD's.
I know your suck ass type.
You are one dumb mutherfukker. I never did a tour of duty at an MSO/MSD. WLB, Taclet/Ledet, Station, Station, Support Center, Station. You won't find anyone I served with who would describe me as a suck-up.
PB has struck me over the past few months that I've actually paid any attention to this website... as a reasonable and intelligent man.
If you were a defendant would you want PaulCovtard on the jury, knowin he's only interested in "how things look" rather than what actually happened?
Fair enough...
I have never met Paul...
I have never met Chauvin...
I never met George...
Hard math and Engineering types... are the only folks that really ever make any sense to me... but mostly that is my fault... I think my compassion chromosome got clobbered with mom's thalidomide meds.
These cases have nothing to do with meeting or knowing people.
It has to do with understanding the Constitution and how it applies to the use of force by police in the United States.
I am looking at this from sveral different angles. The human side, the legal side, the tactical side and the cost/benefit side. I find Chauvin's utter disconcern when the life passed out of Floyd's body detestable. I expect better from a peace officer whose duty is to serve an protect.
Then there's the legal side. Does an officer have a legal responsibility for a person when the officer seizes that person? All I'll say about that is that it's not a legal slam dunk. Does anyone here think that if this goes to trial the jury decision will be unanimous one way or another?
FWIW I have been batting .1000 on the legal outcomes of some of these high profile cases. Zimmerman, Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, Alton Sterling and Eric Garner to name a few. With the exception of the Sterling case, the officers could have made tactical decisions that would have precluded their need to use the force they did when they did. Cops don't like to be second guessed. I say we are cheating ourselves out of an opportunity to learn and grow if we don't look for ways to achieve better outcomes.
When a non-aggressive man ends up dead and riots, mayhem and destruction envelop a country, all over the passing of a small amount of counterfeit , smart people will question what could have been done better or differently. Officer's decision making is going to become more complicated in the future. Temporary tactical disengagement or even momentary retreat will become more routine.
Much of America is far more vile than I believe you have hope, innocence or compassion to overcome... but with genuine sincerity I wish you well.
The media reporting is more to blame for the riots and looting........than actions of law enforcement.
Remember the 12-year-old pics of Trayvon? The hands up reporting of Brown?
There is no desire for actual truth. Only desire for predetermined outcome.
I know that Zimmerman was a damn idiot. I know that Wilson could have employed a brief tactical disengagement until back-up arrived and the outcome would have likely been different. I suspect if you were to ask Wilson today if he had to do that all over again and this time make another call for back-up and maintain remote contact until they arrived, that he would. Brown had already tried to disarm him once, it was all but guaranteed that he'd do it again. I am a strong advocate for taking actions that can buy more time. More time almost always results in better decisions, especially under stress. Do you think combat units unfailingly move forward immediately toward an enemy?
It's not law enforcement that requires a change of behavior.
Mike, I beg to differ. Tactics and priorities must evolve with society. Remember how we used to fill the jails up with recreational pot smokers? Now in most jurisdictions a small amount of pot won't get you arrested. Hell, it won't even get you a ticket. Cops walk past pot smokers in downtown NOLA all the time.
And society has gotten so much better hasn't it.....
It's not law enforcement that requires a change of behavior.
Mike, I beg to differ. Tactics and priorities must evolve with society. Remember how we used to fill the jails up with recreational pot smokers? Now in most jurisdictions a small amount of pot won't get you arrested. Hell, it won't even get you a ticket. Cops walk past pot smokers in downtown NOLA all the time.
And society has gotten so much better hasn't it.....
Police can do very little to affect societal decay.
It's not law enforcement that requires a change of behavior.
Mike, I beg to differ. Tactics and priorities must evolve with society. Remember how we used to fill the jails up with recreational pot smokers? Now in most jurisdictions a small amount of pot won't get you arrested. Hell, it won't even get you a ticket. Cops walk past pot smokers in downtown NOLA all the time.
And society has gotten so much better hasn't it.....
Police can do very little to affect societal decay.
LMAO!, you really believe that? What do you think the world would look like inside of 60 days if all law enforcement walked off the job today?
I was surprised, after watching the whole video, to see Floyd complaining “I can’t breathe” while in the backseat of the cruiser. Since that is the case, it may prove difficult for the prosecution to prove that it was Chauvin that killed him rather than a sudden cardiac arrest brought on by the stress and anxiety of the arrest. I bet that defense attorney is studying that closely. I would not put much stock in a guilty verdict after watching the details of the entire video. I would guess 50/50 for a guilty verdict at best.
Every cop imagines they are "making a difference". The truth is that they likely are. It just isn't the positive difference they tell themselves it is. That's a truth they won't face. Ever. Because at heart they are cowards. The act put on here only makes it more apparent to the rest of us who aren't jaded in the same way.
Every cop imagines they are "making a difference". The truth is that they likely are. It just isn't the positive difference they tell themselves it is. That's a truth they won't face. Ever. Because at heart they are cowards. The act put on here only makes it more apparent to the rest of us who aren't jaded in the same way.
Every cop imagines they are "making a difference". The truth is that they likely are. It just isn't the positive difference they tell themselves it is. That's a truth they won't face. Ever. Because at heart they are cowards. The act put on here only makes it more apparent to the rest of us who aren't jaded in the same way.
I was surprised, after watching the whole video, to see Floyd complaining “I can’t breathe” while in the backseat of the cruiser. Since that is the case, it may prove difficult for the prosecution to prove that it was Chauvin that killed him rather than a sudden cardiac arrest brought on by the stress and anxiety of the arrest. I bet that defense attorney is studying that closely. I would not put much stock in a guilty verdict after watching the details of the entire video. I would guess 50/50 for a guilty verdict at best.
Two possible complications of an overdose level of fentanyl are cardiac arrest and respiratory arrest. The fact that the guy was complaining before even getting on the ground makes it near impossible to PROVE cause of death. Not saying the cop's actions didn't kill him. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But it's a lot harder to prove. That's if proof has anything to do with the trial.
At this point, the only thing I can see that anyone can prove is that the cop didn't notice the guy went unconscious and render immediate aid. That may or may not be negligent homicide depending on who argues the case.
The one person who should be charged with negligent homicide is the Democrat attorney general who withheld evidence and was complicit in a narrative that resulted in riots and death based on incomplete information.
Every cop imagines they are "making a difference". The truth is that they likely are. It just isn't the positive difference they tell themselves it is. That's a truth they won't face. Ever. Because at heart they are cowards. The act put on here only makes it more apparent to the rest of us who aren't jaded in the same way.
Every cop imagines they are "making a difference". The truth is that they likely are. It just isn't the positive difference they tell themselves it is. That's a truth they won't face. Ever. Because at heart they are cowards. The act put on here only makes it more apparent to the rest of us who aren't jaded in the same way.
Walmart greeter?
I say Loss Prevention Agent. They certainly make a difference
The media reporting is more to blame for the riots and looting........than actions of law enforcement.
Remember the 12-year-old pics of Trayvon? The hands up reporting of Brown?
There is no desire for actual truth. Only desire for predetermined outcome.
I know that Zimmerman was a damn idiot. I know that Wilson could have employed a brief tactical disengagement until back-up arrived and the outcome would have likely been different. I suspect if you were to ask Wilson today if he had to do that all over again and this time make another call for back-up and maintain remote contact until they arrived, that he would. Brown had already tried to disarm him once, it was all but guaranteed that he'd do it again. I am a strong advocate for taking actions that can buy more time. More time almost always results in better decisions, especially under stress. Do you think combat units unfailingly move forward immediately toward an enemy?
Ah, retreat in the face of aggression. Is that what they taught you in the CG?
Every cop imagines they are "making a difference". The truth is that they likely are. It just isn't the positive difference they tell themselves it is. That's a truth they won't face. Ever. Because at heart they are cowards. The act put on here only makes it more apparent to the rest of us who aren't jaded in the same way.
Really?
What's happened to the violent crime rate in every city that downsized their police force since this mess started?
Every cop imagines they are "making a difference". The truth is that they likely are. It just isn't the positive difference they tell themselves it is. That's a truth they won't face. Ever. Because at heart they are cowards. The act put on here only makes it more apparent to the rest of us who aren't jaded in the same way.
Really?
What's happened to the violent crime rate in every city that downsized their police force since this mess started?
The heroes emerged from the shadows apparently lol
Every cop imagines they are "making a difference". The truth is that they likely are. It just isn't the positive difference they tell themselves it is. That's a truth they won't face. Ever. Because at heart they are cowards. The act put on here only makes it more apparent to the rest of us who aren't jaded in the same way.
Every cop imagines they are "making a difference". The truth is that they likely are. It just isn't the positive difference they tell themselves it is. That's a truth they won't face. Ever. Because at heart they are cowards. The act put on here only makes it more apparent to the rest of us who aren't jaded in the same way.
Really?
What's happened to the violent crime rate in every city that downsized their police force since this mess started?
The heroes emerged from the shadows apparently lol
Members from safe white wonder bread rural Idaho and rural Montana areas probably have more knowledge of inner city violent black crime rates and patterns than any seasoned Detective .
Members from safe white wonder bread rural Idaho and rural Montana areas probably have more knowledge of inner city violent black crime rates and patterns than any seasoned Detective .
The media reporting is more to blame for the riots and looting........than actions of law enforcement.Remember the 12-year-old pics of Trayvon? The hands up reporting of Brown? There is no desire for actual truth. Only desire for predetermined outcome.
I know that Zimmerman was a damn idiot. I know that Wilson could have employed a brief tactical disengagement until back-up arrived and the outcome would have likely been different. I suspect if you were to ask Wilson today if he had to do that all over again and this time make another call for back-up and maintain remote contact until they arrived, that he would. Brown had already tried to disarm him once, it was all but guaranteed that he'd do it again. I am a strong advocate for taking actions that can buy more time. More time almost always results in better decisions, especially under stress. Do you think combat units unfailingly move forward immediately toward an enemy?
Ah, retreat in the face of aggression. Is that what they taught you in the CG?
There are a few like him in most departments. Want to be a cop until it's time to deal with somebody dangerous or uncooperative. Like that school cop down in Florida waiting for back-up.
The media reporting is more to blame for the riots and looting........than actions of law enforcement.
Remember the 12-year-old pics of Trayvon? The hands up reporting of Brown?
There is no desire for actual truth. Only desire for predetermined outcome.
I know that Zimmerman was a damn idiot. I know that Wilson could have employed a brief tactical disengagement until back-up arrived and the outcome would have likely been different. I suspect if you were to ask Wilson today if he had to do that all over again and this time make another call for back-up and maintain remote contact until they arrived, that he would. Brown had already tried to disarm him once, it was all but guaranteed that he'd do it again. I am a strong advocate for taking actions that can buy more time. More time almost always results in better decisions, especially under stress. Do you think combat units unfailingly move forward immediately toward an enemy?
The media reporting is more to blame for the riots and looting........than actions of law enforcement.Remember the 12-year-old pics of Trayvon? The hands up reporting of Brown? There is no desire for actual truth. Only desire for predetermined outcome.
I know that Zimmerman was a damn idiot. I know that Wilson could have employed a brief tactical disengagement until back-up arrived and the outcome would have likely been different. I suspect if you were to ask Wilson today if he had to do that all over again and this time make another call for back-up and maintain remote contact until they arrived, that he would. Brown had already tried to disarm him once, it was all but guaranteed that he'd do it again. I am a strong advocate for taking actions that can buy more time. More time almost always results in better decisions, especially under stress. Do you think combat units unfailingly move forward immediately toward an enemy?
Ah, retreat in the face of aggression. Is that what they taught you in the CG?
There are a few like him in most departments. Want to be a cop until it's time to deal with somebody dangerous or uncooperative. Like that school cop down in Florida waiting for back-up.
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
The media reporting is more to blame for the riots and looting........than actions of law enforcement.
Remember the 12-year-old pics of Trayvon? The hands up reporting of Brown?
There is no desire for actual truth. Only desire for predetermined outcome.
I know that Zimmerman was a damn idiot. I know that Wilson could have employed a brief tactical disengagement until back-up arrived and the outcome would have likely been different. I suspect if you were to ask Wilson today if he had to do that all over again and this time make another call for back-up and maintain remote contact until they arrived, that he would. Brown had already tried to disarm him once, it was all but guaranteed that he'd do it again. I am a strong advocate for taking actions that can buy more time. More time almost always results in better decisions, especially under stress. Do you think combat units unfailingly move forward immediately toward an enemy?
Didn't work in Waco, dude.
By all means let's focus on the exception rather than the rule.
If you were being shot at from someone in a position of cover. Would you stand in the open and return fire or would you move for cover?
Too many GD felon defenders here Dirt, reminds me of that other obama couple that used to hang out here!
It takes critical thinking to get this, so you'll probably come up short, but my advocating for strategic retreat or temporary tactical disengagement in certain circumstances is for the benefit of the officers.
Every cop imagines they are "making a difference". The truth is that they likely are. It just isn't the positive difference they tell themselves it is. That's a truth they won't face. Ever. Because at heart they are cowards. The act put on here only makes it more apparent to the rest of us who aren't jaded in the same way.
Walmart greeter?
I've had three jobs that are statistically more dangerous than "cop". And I got hurt. Several times. So I have nothing to prove to a bunch of boomers who will kiss whomever's ass to keep the status quo.
It's pretty obvious around here who has the courage to face reality, and who needs to cower behind platitudes. It is nearly always about some fear-based status quo.
If ANYONE thinks that their ability to follow orders is a source of pride and honor, they are stupid and/or brainwashed.
If ANYONE thinks that cops in their current form are anything but a tyrannical enforcement operation for criminal politicians, they are stupid and/or brainwashed.
If ANYONE imagines that cops have anything to do with freedom, or maintaining the American promise of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, they simply have blinders on.
Why didn't George Washington establish an army? Why didn't he establish a federal law enforcement agency? Why did the US go 100 years before municipal law enforcement agencies existed? How were laws enforced before that?
There are lots of forces at work here. The main one is the media pushing an agenda meant to overthrow the Republic in every way. Cops can't hold it together, no matter how many "criminals" die, because the real criminals act with impunity, and always have. Enforcing laws designed by European Whites for European Whites to maintain a European White society has never worked with any other group and will never work. Africans will never get it. Hispanics by and large don't get it. Asians don't get it. None of those other groups ever embraced individual freedom as a necessity.
If we want to solve the problems that are obvious in the Floyd video, sending cops into areas populated by these non-white groups isn't going to do any good. It never did. All they do is risk harm, kill people, and fill up taxpayer-funded prisons. Blacks are not capable of living according to the laws that have been made for all of us. We have known this for many centuries. We have simply been propagandized otherwise. All men are NOT created equal, and all men are NOT capable of living under the system laid out by our Founding Fathers. They understood the African "problem" quite well.
The blacks need to separate from the whites, and the whites need to be separate from the blacks. Anything else is open warfare.
The media reporting is more to blame for the riots and looting........than actions of law enforcement.Remember the 12-year-old pics of Trayvon? The hands up reporting of Brown? There is no desire for actual truth. Only desire for predetermined outcome.
I know that Zimmerman was a damn idiot. I know that Wilson could have employed a brief tactical disengagement until back-up arrived and the outcome would have likely been different. I suspect if you were to ask Wilson today if he had to do that all over again and this time make another call for back-up and maintain remote contact until they arrived, that he would. Brown had already tried to disarm him once, it was all but guaranteed that he'd do it again. I am a strong advocate for taking actions that can buy more time. More time almost always results in better decisions, especially under stress. Do you think combat units unfailingly move forward immediately toward an enemy?
Ah, retreat in the face of aggression. Is that what they taught you in the CG?
There are a few like him in most departments. Want to be a cop until it's time to deal with somebody dangerous or uncooperative. Like that school cop down in Florida waiting for back-up.
I guess Paul's never heard of "Surprise, speed, and violence of action".
Too many GD felon defenders here Dirt, reminds me of that other obama couple that used to hang out here!
It takes critical thinking to get this, so you'll probably come up short, but my advocating for strategic retreat or temporary tactical disengagement in certain circumstances is for the benefit of the officers.
Not talking about that crap, I want you to lose that mindset, hope it never happens, but you'll reason [analyze] yourself to death in a gun fight.
Too many GD felon defenders here Dirt, reminds me of that other obama couple that used to hang out here!
It takes critical thinking to get this, so you'll probably come up short, but my advocating for strategic retreat or temporary tactical disengagement in certain circumstances is for the benefit of the officers.
Not talking about that crap, I want you to lose that mindset, hope it never happens, but you'll reason [analyze] yourself to death in a gun fight.
Too many GD felon defenders here Dirt, reminds me of that other obama couple that used to hang out here!
It takes critical thinking to get this, so you'll probably come up short, but my advocating for strategic retreat or temporary tactical disengagement in certain circumstances is for the benefit of the officers.
Not talking about that crap, I want you to lose that mindset, hope it never happens, but you'll reason [analyze] yourself to death in a gun fight.
He who hesitates is lost...
Yes, had to pound that through my Mothers head, I'd hate to have to shoot one of gods children................... gods children DONT require shooting Mama!!!!!
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
Tamir Rice was straight up murder any way you slice it. The officer was released from another department for mental issues. Worst of the armed shoots in the bunch IMO.
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
Sorry about the delay in replying sir but I was busy killing army worms today. Tamir Rice pulled a replica 1911 Colt on the officers as soon as they pulled up.Young Mr. Rice appears to weigh close to 200 pounds. I don't see any way the officers could have retreated safely had this been a .45 Colt. They had no idea it was a pellet gun. I never had to shoot anyone in my 30 year career although there were times I legally could have. My training emphasized that a kid could and would kill you. I suspect the officers had no idea of this boy's age, not that it would have made any difference. Maybe those of us that haven't dealt with ghetto trash ought not be to quick on the trigger to second guess those that have to ride that herd. Law enforcement deserves a lot of criticism at times but you have picked out Trayvon Martin in Florida, Michael Brown in Missouri, and Tamir Rice in Ohio as examples. All three of those young men found what they were looking for.
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
I don't know you from Adam, Paul. But based on your posts I am going to assume your LE experience with the Coast Guard was dealing with coworkers on a boat, or on base. Is that fairly accurate?
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
I don't know you from Adam, Paul. But based on your posts I am going to assume your LE experience with the Coast Guard was dealing with coworkers on a boat, or on base. Is that fairly accurate?
I only called the Coast Gaurd for help one time. It was at Cocodrie Louisiana during the BP oil spill. We were trying to get the crew off of a sinking shrimp trawler that was contracted to BP. The boat was going down stern first and we still had a deckhand in the cabin which was awash. USCG had boats and crews tied to the wharf 15 minutes away. They advised us to tell the captain to send a report to New Orleans CG within 3 weeks.
Well I thought this thread was about Chauvin and Floyds behaviour at the time of Floyd's arrest but you seem to want to cast [bleep] upon Chauvin for an unrelated matter.
lol
Some people can see the utter hypocrisy of Chauvin’s disproportionate response to Floyd passing a fake 20, when Chauvin himself has reportedly filed fraudulent tax returns for 6 consecutive years. You’re clearly not one of em’.
You apparently aren't paying attention to Floyd's behavior.
I have friends who worked as criminal investigators in the army, airforce, Navy. Cant speak for CG. They said the majority of their cases were for simple drug possession, lots of Dv's, simple assaults and rape charges . They advised that the majority of the rape allegations were BS. Husband deploys, wife bangs a bunch of husband's friends , gets pregnant and blame it on rape.
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
I don't know you from Adam, Paul. But based on your posts I am going to assume your LE experience with the Coast Guard was dealing with coworkers on a boat, or on base. Is that fairly accurate?
I have friends who worked as criminal investigators in the army, airfare, Navy. Cant speak for CG. They said the majority of their cases were for simple drug possession, lots of Dv's, simple assaults and rape charges . They advised that the majority of the rape allegations were BS. Husband deploys, wife bangs a bunch of husband's friends , gets pregnant and blame it on rape.
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
I don't know you from Adam, Paul. But based on your posts I am going to assume your LE experience with the Coast Guard was dealing with coworkers on a boat, or on base. Is that fairly accurate?
That was my point. I'm not diminishing Paul's experience, but simply putting it into perspective. To keep it hunting centric, it'd be like a guy used to shooting deer off a corn feeder from a permanent stand with a cooler of drinks, critiquing public land elk hunting in the rockies. Some things correlate, many do not.
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
Sorry about the delay in replying sir but I was busy killing army worms today. Tamir Rice pulled a replica 1911 Colt on the officers as soon as they pulled up.Young Mr. Rice appears to weigh close to 200 pounds. I don't see any way the officers could have retreated safely had this been a .45 Colt. They had no idea it was a pellet gun. I never had to shoot anyone in my 30 year career although there were times I legally could have. My training emphasized that a kid could and would kill you. I suspect the officers had no idea of this boy's age, not that it would have made any difference. Maybe those of us that haven't dealt with ghetto trash ought not be to quick on the trigger to second guess those that have to ride that herd. Law enforcement deserves a lot of criticism at times but you have picked out Trayvon Martin in Florida, Michael Brown in Missouri, and Tamir Rice in Ohio as examples. All three of those young men found what they were looking for.
Well I thought this thread was about Chauvin and Floyds behaviour at the time of Floyd's arrest but you seem to want to cast [bleep] upon Chauvin for an unrelated matter.
lol
Some people can see the utter hypocrisy of Chauvin’s disproportionate response to Floyd passing a fake 20, when Chauvin himself has reportedly filed fraudulent tax returns for 6 consecutive years. You’re clearly not one of em’.
It should be a patriotic duty to file fugg the IRS
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
Sorry about the delay in replying sir but I was busy killing army worms today. Tamir Rice pulled a replica 1911 Colt on the officers as soon as they pulled up.Young Mr. Rice appears to weigh close to 200 pounds. I don't see any way the officers could have retreated safely had this been a .45 Colt. They had no idea it was a pellet gun. I never had to shoot anyone in my 30 year career although there were times I legally could have. My training emphasized that a kid could and would kill you. I suspect the officers had no idea of this boy's age, not that it would have made any difference. Maybe those of us that haven't dealt with ghetto trash ought not be to quick on the trigger to second guess those that have to ride that herd. Law enforcement deserves a lot of criticism at times but you have picked out Trayvon Martin in Florida, Michael Brown in Missouri, and Tamir Rice in Ohio as examples. All three of those young men found what they were looking for.
Here's the video on Tamir Rice. Maybe you can make a more informed statement after viewing.https://www.theguardian.com/usnews/video/2014/nov/26/cleveland-video-tamir-rice-shooting-police
Yes sir: I couldn't tell if you were pointing out that video to me or Mr. Paul.I watched the video and I'm sure the police were quite alarmed when he pulled that very real looking .45 Colt replica on them. Shreveport police shot a man that pulled a cell phone on them and assumed a shooting stance. Acting like you intend to shoot armed police is a really bad idea.
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
Tamir Rice was straight up murder any way you slice it. The officer was released from another department for mental issues. Worst of the armed shoots in the bunch IMO.
No it wasn't murder. It was bad police tactics that led to a legally justifiable shooting. Had the officers taken better advantage of time, distance and cover, Tamir would be alive. Time, distance and cover can all buy better decisions.
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
I don't know you from Adam, Paul. But based on your posts I am going to assume your LE experience with the Coast Guard was dealing with coworkers on a boat, or on base. Is that fairly accurate?
My LE experience comes with an asterisk. Coast Guard LE is a very different animal than street LE. It's a different environment, a different tactical field and an often different public. I am always very up front about that and quick to admit that street cops have a much tougher job. Now having said that, that doesn't mean that some of the training, tactics and constitutional law don't transfer reasonably well. I also earned my certification as a reserve deputy in Harrison County MS. I didn't have much experience with that before Katrina hit, and I ended up moving and changing jobs.
Having been trained by the country and the state of Mississippi and having cross trained with officers from all kinds of local, state and federal agencies, I can say that our training and our emphasis needs to change. Far, far more time is spent training on shooting, and on when shooting is legally justifiable, than on tactics and strategies that deliver non-lethal outcomes. I well remember the first time I read in our LE policy manual that a "retreat may be the best option in certain circumstances" I laughed. We all did. Machismo runs deep in our ranks. It almost has to. But over time I saw that it could indeed be the best option in certain circumstances.
Wilson/Brown would have been a great time to use a tactical disengagement. An unarmed Brown had already tried to take Wilson's gun. We can draw two reasonable conclusions from that. Brown wasn't armed and he'd likely do it again. When Wilson immediately reengaged him, and did so without the benefit of the immediately available cover, he put himself in a situation in which he was all but guaranteed to have to shot an unarmed man.
Had he waited until back-up arrived and/or put his car between him and Brown, we may not have BLM today. But the shoot was legally justifiable, so it was the best outcome right?
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
Sorry about the delay in replying sir but I was busy killing army worms today. Tamir Rice pulled a replica 1911 Colt on the officers as soon as they pulled up.Young Mr. Rice appears to weigh close to 200 pounds. I don't see any way the officers could have retreated safely had this been a .45 Colt. They had no idea it was a pellet gun. I never had to shoot anyone in my 30 year career although there were times I legally could have. My training emphasized that a kid could and would kill you. I suspect the officers had no idea of this boy's age, not that it would have made any difference. Maybe those of us that haven't dealt with ghetto trash ought not be to quick on the trigger to second guess those that have to ride that herd. Law enforcement deserves a lot of criticism at times but you have picked out Trayvon Martin in Florida, Michael Brown in Missouri, and Tamir Rice in Ohio as examples. All three of those young men found what they were looking for.
Here's the video on Tamir Rice. Maybe you can make a more informed statement after viewing.https://www.theguardian.com/usnews/video/2014/nov/26/cleveland-video-tamir-rice-shooting-police
Yes sir: I couldn't tell if you were pointing out that video to me or Mr. Paul.I watched the video and I'm sure the police were quite alarmed when he pulled that very real looking .45 Colt replica on them. Shreveport police shot a man that pulled a cell phone on them and assumed a shooting stance. Acting like you intend to shoot armed police is a really bad idea.
It's an equally bad idea to drive in that close to someone you suspect may be armed, then not make use of any cover. Time, distance and cover buy better decisions. Bad tactics are more likely to deliver bad decisions.
Well I thought this thread was about Chauvin and Floyds behaviour at the time of Floyd's arrest but you seem to want to cast [bleep] upon Chauvin for an unrelated matter.
lol
Some people can see the utter hypocrisy of Chauvin’s disproportionate response to Floyd passing a fake 20, when Chauvin himself has reportedly filed fraudulent tax returns for 6 consecutive years. You’re clearly not one of em’.
It should be a patriotic duty to file fugg the IRS
That sir, is a fact.
If Hollywood can make a movie like once upon a time in Hollywood and write off a hundred and fifty million dollars of classic cars as a tax write-off, I am damn sure going to claim a few extra hundred miles next year.
Liberals have been gang-raping the IRS for decades. Not saying that fat cat Republicans don't do the same thing, but us middle-of-the-road conservatives are about sick of paying for these clowns + 100 million sack of crap on welfare or related.
Prince William County Virginia one of the top 10 wealthiest counties in America is where I'm forced to live part-time because of a custody arrangement. My son is a sophomore at a public school. Actually one of the better public schools in the county. Again this is a very wealthy County because of proximity to Washington DC. 63% of all the students at the school get free breakfast lunch and dinner through the various poor poor pitiful me programs. It's absolutely disheartening to try to do the right thing and yet observe A system that so f****** broken around you.
Mr. Barnard: Your remarks are not portraying yourself as at all understanding of ghetto policing. If criminals were (dis) engaged with the tactics you recommend what would stop them from just walking off into the jungle never to be identified or apprehended? Unlike a USCG patrol boat with a crew on board dealing with a usually slower vessel out on open water an urban cop is often alone and in need of control of a seasoned career criminal that badly doesn't want to go back to the big house. Add to that the fact that unlike your USCG stop of a vessel there are plenty of willing confederates available to the detainee and plenty of escape routes. I gather from your comments that you are a mild mannered kindhearted person. That might be good to have around once a subject is subdued but as a street cop in the ghetto it is doubtful you would ever make a meaningful arrest. Policing the urban criminal underclass is a different world from the one you find out on the water where you at least usually have a captain or boat owner who are not usually thugs with nothing to lose even if they are hauling dope. If an urban police department adopted the policies you recommend they would soon face successful hostile resistance 90% of the time. Which is exactly what we are seeing in many cities the last few weeks.
Extremely poor health, combined with being doped up on a dangerous concoction of drugs, combined with vigorously resisting police during a lawful arrest, is what killed George Floyd. The whole thing was a scam perpetrated on the American people by the MSM from the start for the purpose of provoking racial unrest. Right out of the Bolshevik playbook.
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
Tamir Rice was straight up murder any way you slice it. The officer was released from another department for mental issues. Worst of the armed shoots in the bunch IMO.
No it wasn't murder. It was bad police tactics that led to a legally justifiable shooting. Had the officers taken better advantage of time, distance and cover, Tamir would be alive. Time, distance and cover can all buy better decisions.
Tamir would also be alive had he not made a furtive movement and reach for what any reasonable person would assume was a weapon either
The fact someone is trying to compare being in the coast guard policing and an inner city cop being a policeman is laugh out loud funny. Talk about apples and oranges. Thanks needed the laugh this morning.
3X the 'lethal' dose of fentanyl is likely what killed him.
One thing is certain.......the liberal Democrat politicians in Minnesota will quickly label jurors as racists.......in an effort to keep their hands clean, when things start burning again.
Originally Posted by BuckHaggard
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
It showed a mildly resistive subject, an officers who could have put a better effort into deescalating and calming the subject.
Yep. The cops actually escalated the situation up until the point that what's his name murdered him.
I stand by what I said on the matter. You disagree. Fine. No big deal. To me.
The two are not related. Look up “causality.” You’ll find this:
Description: Causality is influence by which one event, process or state contributes to the production of another event, process or state where the cause is partly responsible for the effect, and the effect is partly dependent on the cause.
I’ll bet cops speed sometimes, too, but still pull people over.
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
I don't know you from Adam, Paul. But based on your posts I am going to assume your LE experience with the Coast Guard was dealing with coworkers on a boat, or on base. Is that fairly accurate?
My LE experience comes with an asterisk. Coast Guard LE is a very different animal than street LE. It's a different environment, a different tactical field and an often different public. I am always very up front about that and quick to admit that street cops have a much tougher job. Now having said that, that doesn't mean that some of the training, tactics and constitutional law don't transfer reasonably well. I also earned my certification as a reserve deputy in Harrison County MS. I didn't have much experience with that before Katrina hit, and I ended up moving and changing jobs.
Having been trained by the country and the state of Mississippi and having cross trained with officers from all kinds of local, state and federal agencies, I can say that our training and our emphasis needs to change. Far, far more time is spent training on shooting, and on when shooting is legally justifiable, than on tactics and strategies that deliver non-lethal outcomes. I well remember the first time I read in our LE policy manual that a "retreat may be the best option in certain circumstances" I laughed. We all did. Machismo runs deep in our ranks. It almost has to. But over time I saw that it could indeed be the best option in certain circumstances.
Wilson/Brown would have been a great time to use a tactical disengagement. An unarmed Brown had already tried to take Wilson's gun. We can draw two reasonable conclusions from that. Brown wasn't armed and he'd likely do it again. When Wilson immediately reengaged him, and did so without the benefit of the immediately available cover, he put himself in a situation in which he was all but guaranteed to have to shot an unarmed man.
Had he waited until back-up arrived and/or put his car between him and Brown, we may not have BLM today. But the shoot was legally justifiable, so it was the best outcome right?
That's a long long winded way to say "yes". You are putting yourself on the podium, using your experience as a resume to tell us all you know what you are talking about, and you're not just being emotional. But your experience doesn't correlate with any of the incidents you are pontificating on here about as an SME.
I’m gonna manhandle you for passing a fake 20. Even though I’ve filed fraudulent tax returns for 6 consecutive years.
Sounds about right.
That's not what happened...
But that's the narrative. lol As the facts come out, and the real picture doesn't fit the painting they made on day one, they need to change the focus. Saint George wasn't "manhandled" for passing a forged currency, he could've simply went with the officers, got a ride in the car, and had his day in court. That it didn't go that way is solely on the dearly departed. Not holding people accountable for their actions is a large part of why this country is spiraling downward so fast. What the officer paid in taxes is so irrelevant to the topic at hand it's comically baffling.
The fact someone is trying to compare being in the coast guard policing and an inner city cop being a policeman is laugh out loud funny. Talk about apples and oranges. Thanks needed the laugh this morning.
I have been very clear in stating that the tactics don't always translate. If I have made a specific comment with which you disagree, comment on that.
But that's the narrative. lol As the facts come out, and the real picture doesn't fit the painting they made on day one, they need to change the focus. Saint George wasn't "manhandled" for passing a forged currency, he could've simply went with the officers, got a ride in the car, and had his day in court. That it didn't go that way is solely on the dearly departed. Not holding people accountable for their actions is a large part of why this country is spiraling downward so fast. What the officer paid in taxes is so irrelevant to the topic at hand it's comically baffling.
If you are not familiar with the Tamir Rice incident, read up on it. Tell me that law enforcement delivered the best possible outcome. Tell me that a little more time and/or space couldn't have delivered a better outcome. When I was a kid I had a few contacts with LE when I was carrying a pellet gun or BB pistol. I never got shot.
I don't know you from Adam, Paul. But based on your posts I am going to assume your LE experience with the Coast Guard was dealing with coworkers on a boat, or on base. Is that fairly accurate?
My LE experience comes with an asterisk. Coast Guard LE is a very different animal than street LE. It's a different environment, a different tactical field and an often different public. I am always very up front about that and quick to admit that street cops have a much tougher job. Now having said that, that doesn't mean that some of the training, tactics and constitutional law don't transfer reasonably well. I also earned my certification as a reserve deputy in Harrison County MS. I didn't have much experience with that before Katrina hit, and I ended up moving and changing jobs.
Having been trained by the country and the state of Mississippi and having cross trained with officers from all kinds of local, state and federal agencies, I can say that our training and our emphasis needs to change. Far, far more time is spent training on shooting, and on when shooting is legally justifiable, than on tactics and strategies that deliver non-lethal outcomes. I well remember the first time I read in our LE policy manual that a "retreat may be the best option in certain circumstances" I laughed. We all did. Machismo runs deep in our ranks. It almost has to. But over time I saw that it could indeed be the best option in certain circumstances.
Wilson/Brown would have been a great time to use a tactical disengagement. An unarmed Brown had already tried to take Wilson's gun. We can draw two reasonable conclusions from that. Brown wasn't armed and he'd likely do it again. When Wilson immediately reengaged him, and did so without the benefit of the immediately available cover, he put himself in a situation in which he was all but guaranteed to have to shot an unarmed man.
Had he waited until back-up arrived and/or put his car between him and Brown, we may not have BLM today. But the shoot was legally justifiable, so it was the best outcome right?
That's a long long winded way to say "yes". You are putting yourself on the podium, using your experience as a resume to tell us all you know what you are talking about, and you're not just being emotional. But your experience doesn't correlate with any of the incidents you are pontificating on here about as an SME.
Billy, you are speaking in generalities rather than specifics. I suspect that is purposeful. If you want to take a specific comment that I have made and tell me how or why it wouldn't have worked in the referenced situation, I'll be happy to have that discussion with you.
I stand by what I said on the matter. You disagree. Fine. No big deal. To me.
Likely, but it's hard to keep track of it all, the dumbest damned premise ever offered here on the 'Fire. Absolutely irrelevant. But like Pharm says, you win. Laughing.
Billy, you are speaking in generalities rather than specifics. I suspect that is purposeful. If you want to take a specific comment that I have made and tell me how or why it wouldn't have worked in the referenced situation, I'll be happy to have that discussion with you.
The fact someone is trying to compare being in the coast guard policing and an inner city cop being a policeman is laugh out loud funny. Talk about apples and oranges. Thanks needed the laugh this morning.
I have been very clear in stating that the tactics don't always translate. If I have made a specific comment with which you disagree, comment on that.
I disagree with your whole premise. You were in the coast guard!!! You have never worked as an inner city cop so you have zero experience as to what the hell you’re talking about. Is that plain enough for you?
PB will continue to dig his grave w/ his mouth. Anyone dull enough to equate CG law enforcement w/ the daily life of a metropolitan street cop will not know when it is a good time to retreat and seek cover.
PB will continue to dig his grave w/ his mouth. Anyone dull enough to equate CG law enforcement w/ the daily life of a metropolitan street cop will not know when it is a good time to retreat and seek cover.
mike r
Another person who is quick to make a general quip but not delve into specifically what I said that won't work. And for those who are literate, they have read many times that I am not equating maritime LE with street LE. I am saying that some of the skills and tactics transfer and have explained certain instances in which they will. Several members who are dead certain I am wrong are intent on avoiding direct conversation. There's a reason for that.
The fact someone is trying to compare being in the coast guard policing and an inner city cop being a policeman is laugh out loud funny. Talk about apples and oranges. Thanks needed the laugh this morning.
I have been very clear in stating that the tactics don't always translate. If I have made a specific comment with which you disagree, comment on that.
I disagree with your whole premise. You were in the coast guard!!! You have never worked as an inner city cop so you have zero experience as to what the hell you’re talking about. Is that plain enough for you?
What LE experience do you have that places you in a position to state that with any degree of authority? It's borderline hilarious that people that never had the stones to do the job are telling me I am ill qualified to make a comment. I'll point out again that you are dabbling in generalities rather than discussing specifics. There's a reason for that.
I find humor in the senior citizens throwing around that he was 3x’s over the lethal level of fetanyl... and was aggressively resisting arrest.
I get it, not a lot of fug’d up dope heads in the retirement community.... but wtf lol!! Your not OD’ing on a super dose of opiates, enough to kill you... while being strong enough to be physical threats to healthy cops.
The fact someone is trying to compare being in the coast guard policing and an inner city cop being a policeman is laugh out loud funny. Talk about apples and oranges. Thanks needed the laugh this morning.
I have been very clear in stating that the tactics don't always translate. If I have made a specific comment with which you disagree, comment on that.
I disagree with your whole premise. You were in the coast guard!!! You have never worked as an inner city cop so you have zero experience as to what the hell you’re talking about. Is that plain enough for you?
What LE experience do you have that places you in a position to state that with any degree of authority? It's borderline hilarious that people that never had the stones to do the job are telling me I am ill qualified to make a comment. I'll point out again that you are dabbling in generalities rather than discussing specifics. There's a reason for that.
Unlike you doofus I never said I was. You are comparing a stint in the coast guard to officers in the inner city. That’s it!!! I also said it made me laugh and it did then and does now. 😂😂😂
The fact someone is trying to compare being in the coast guard policing and an inner city cop being a policeman is laugh out loud funny. Talk about apples and oranges. Thanks needed the laugh this morning.
I have been very clear in stating that the tactics don't always translate. If I have made a specific comment with which you disagree, comment on that.
I disagree with your whole premise. You were in the coast guard!!! You have never worked as an inner city cop so you have zero experience as to what the hell you’re talking about. Is that plain enough for you?
What LE experience do you have that places you in a position to state that with any degree of authority? It's borderline hilarious that people that never had the stones to do the job are telling me I am ill qualified to make a comment. I'll point out again that you are dabbling in generalities rather than discussing specifics. There's a reason for that.
Unlike you doofus I never said I was. You are comparing a stint in the coast guard to officers in the inner city. That’s it!!! I also said it made me laugh and it did then and does now. 😂😂😂
Come back when you have training, education and experience in some kind of LE discipline. Until then you are nothing but a run-of-the-mill internet blowhard.
What LE experience do you have that places you in a position to state that with any degree of authority? It's borderline hilarious that people that never had the stones to do the job are telling me I am ill qualified to make a comment. I'll point out again that you are dabbling in generalities rather than discussing specifics. There's a reason for that.
Sir: You are in way over your head opining on urban law enforcement. You have already indicted the shooters of Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, and Trayvon Martin, one of whom pointed a 1911 Colt replica at officers and the other two made sudden unprovoked attacks apparently playing (and lost) the knockout game so in vogue with black "youths". Those are 3 specifics that most any sensible person studying the incidents would take issue with you about. I worked 30 years as a state game warden mostly without any hope of backup and believe it or not we arrested a good many felons. I probably have way more experience than you in arresting people in boats, sober, drunk, doped up, combative, you name it. Almost all were armed with serious weaponry. We also had to frequently go into town and pick up people on warrants in some pretty ugly neighborhoods not to mention helping the sheriff constantly with the white trash dopers out in the boondocks. I wouldn't care to debate you about the three above named incident because I am not inclined to debate someone who obviously doesn't understand the situation.
PB will continue to dig his grave w/ his mouth. Anyone dull enough to equate CG law enforcement w/ the daily life of a metropolitan street cop will not know when it is a good time to retreat and seek cover.
mike r
Another person who is quick to make a general quip but not delve into specifically what I said that won't work. And for those who are literate, they have read many times that I am not equating maritime LE with street LE. I am saying that some of the skills and tactics transfer and have explained certain instances in which they will. Several members who are dead certain I am wrong are intent on avoiding direct conversation. There's a reason for that.
My general quip illustrates that , despite your quest for relevancy, you have no training or experience to support your rainbow striped theories on dealing w/ resisting felons in an environment totally hostile to LE or the norms of decent society. You have chosen to bloviate outside of the reality in which the incident occurred and with which you have exactly zero knowledge. It may be the time that a thinking person might decide to STFU. Skills and tactics transfer appropriately among the problem solvers that understand reality. Those that don't live the life should recognize their inadequacies. try it.
What LE experience do you have that places you in a position to state that with any degree of authority? It's borderline hilarious that people that never had the stones to do the job are telling me I am ill qualified to make a comment. I'll point out again that you are dabbling in generalities rather than discussing specifics. There's a reason for that.
Sir: You are in way over your head opining on urban law enforcement. You have already indicted the shooters of Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, and Trayvon Martin,
I don't know if you are illiterate or you missed it, but I'll type it yet again. Those were legally justifiable shootings. They weren't even close calls. I have mentioned that several times. I had arguments on other forums at the time with people who thought the shooters were guilty of murder. I knew the shooters would be cleared.
That said, I have a hunch that Zimmerman and each of the officers involved would employ different tactics each one of those cases if they had to do it all over again. I always trained my officers that taking someone's life, even in clearly justifiable conditions, would be one of the worst things that could ever happen to them. As surely as an officer must be willing to unhesitatingly defend their life ,or the life of others, with deadly force, they must also keep an eye toward non-deadly tactics.
If you served for 30 years you can probably reflect back on times you could have legally used deadly force but didn't. You can probably look back and see where you employed deescalation techniques that likely precluded the need for higher level force. You can probably look back and recall circumstances in which you are glad you weren't being videoed by 20 people. The LE world is not the same one you entered over 3 decades ago.
I will invite you, as I have others who have refused, to tell me specifically what I have suggested that won't work. You'll turn me down too.
PB will continue to dig his grave w/ his mouth. Anyone dull enough to equate CG law enforcement w/ the daily life of a metropolitan street cop will not know when it is a good time to retreat and seek cover.
mike r
Another person who is quick to make a general quip but not delve into specifically what I said that won't work. And for those who are literate, they have read many times that I am not equating maritime LE with street LE. I am saying that some of the skills and tactics transfer and have explained certain instances in which they will. Several members who are dead certain I am wrong are intent on avoiding direct conversation. There's a reason for that.
My general quip illustrates that , despite your quest for relevancy, you have no training or experience to support your rainbow striped theories on dealing w/ resisting felons in an environment totally hostile to LE or the norms of decent society. You have chosen to bloviate outside of the reality in which the incident occurred and with which you have exactly zero knowledge. It may be the time that a thinking person might decide to STFU. Skills and tactics transfer appropriately among the problem solvers that understand reality. Those that don't live the life should recognize their inadequacies. ty it.
mike r
Look, another person avoiding specifics. I am really good at this.
Billy, you are speaking in generalities rather than specifics. I suspect that is purposeful. If you want to take a specific comment that I have made and tell me how or why it wouldn't have worked in the referenced situation, I'll be happy to have that discussion with you.
Paul,
Outside of your pedal biker threads, I have made it a point not to call you names or bust your chops unnecessarily. I respect the fact you come on here and take the heat for putting on pink spandex and a helmet and giving it your all, and then bandying words back and forth.
I speak in "generalities" in regards to your approach to LE, because your approach to LE in a general sense is fugged up. I've played this game before, I specify a situation and who/what/why it and then what I said in regards to a specific situation at that exact time and place, gets transposed to an approach to a totally different situation where that response might or might not be appropriate. I had a whole big thing typed up, but then realized it still didn't explain it plain enough.
Bottom line, when you pin on a badge and take the oath, the taxpayers aren't paying you to be a puzzy. You are expected to step up and do the job. If your response to an aggressive contact is to retreat and call for backup then I am glad you are retired. That being said, you are not Judge Dredd. That is why LE is such a demanding job, and requires so much of it's folks. You need to be able to go up and down the use of force continuum at a moments notice, and be right EVERY time.
I'd be happy to buy you a White Claw or dessert coffee and visit further, but this is as specific as I'm going to get.
Billy, you are speaking in generalities rather than specifics. I suspect that is purposeful. If you want to take a specific comment that I have made and tell me how or why it wouldn't have worked in the referenced situation, I'll be happy to have that discussion with you.
Paul,
Outside of your pedal biker threads, I have made it a point not to call you names or bust your chops unnecessarily. I respect the fact you come on here and take the heat for putting on pink spandex and a helmet and giving it your all, and then bandying words back and forth.
I speak in "generalities" in regards to your approach to LE, because your approach to LE in a general sense is fugged up. I've played this game before, I specify a situation and who/what/why it and then what I said in regards to a specific situation at that exact time and place, gets transposed to an approach to a totally different situation where that response might or might not be appropriate. I had a whole big thing typed up, but then realized it still didn't explain it plain enough.
Bottom line, when you pin on a badge and take the oath, the taxpayers aren't paying you to be a puzzy. You are expected to step up and do the job. If your response to an aggressive contact is to retreat and call for backup then I am glad you are retired. That being said, you are not Judge Dredd. That is why LE is such a demanding job, and requires so much of it's folks. You need to be able to go up and down the use of force continuum at a moments notice, and be right EVERY time.
I'd be happy to buy you a White Claw or dessert coffee and visit further, but this is as specific as I'm going to get.
Good enough brother!
There is a lot of reading out there on tactical disengagement or retreat. It is often the best course of action when doing so won't further endanger yourself or others. I am not the only person who see value in its APPROPRIATE use. It is going to become more prevalent in training, use and organizational acceptance.
Brown/Wilson. It is important to note that I am not criticizing Wilson. He was in a highly charged deadly force situation and was likely very amped up. If he had remained in his unit after the initial confrontation, confirmed back up was coming, maintained visual contact with Brown, and engaged once he had back-up he would be better off today. In fact I think we can all agree that much would be better today had he waited. There was very little risk in doing so, and much potential for gain. We have to be willing to review and learn from these situations or we are doomed to repeat them.
You mentioned the taxpayers. We do indeed have to be good stewards of their hard earned dollars.
I did a post on Karelian Bear Dogs a week ago or so.
Somewhere in the responses or supplemental reading I forget, someone mention the delta between a wolf and a dog... as well as a coyote and a domesticated dog.
The gist of the conversation was that a wolf or coyote has spent its entire life killing for a living. It knows nothing else and it has no compunction whatsoever about killing. It does it to survive and it is perfectly moral and Perfectly Natural for a wolf and a coyote to kill. It's actually unnatural for them not to.
As a Christian I believe that all human life is sacred and from birth all children are born as Innocents.
At some point in time people diverge from that innocence.
Some people are raised by parents learning right from wrong and spending a career in a white man's world such as the Coast Guard. I am not bashing the Coast Guard I am just saying it is a proper moral respectable and responsible trade where in 98% of the people you run into on the open ocean are damn glad to see you.
The opposite of those are the human beings that are raised with no morality at all... have no father figures and have no guiding forces in their life whatsoever except murderers and criminals. Obviously these individuals become coyotes and wolves and equally obvious they Prey Upon the weak for their very survival. These people would put a knife in your ribs as easy as they would smoke a cigarette. That makes them subhuman...
Many might consider it a reasonable fight to allow their German Shepherd to engage with a wolf. Or their Assiedoodle to engage with a coyote. It is not. The wolf and the coyote have no sense whatsoever of domestication.
This is not a bash upon you Paul... in reality I applaud your Noble intent and you're compunction to always do the right thing. The point that I'm trying to make is that you are more of a domesticated American then a cold blooded natural vermin and you seem naive in what Vermin do for a living.
There's an old military joke that says if you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck.
The overhaul of policing that will come in many cities either through defunding of the police or expecting social workers to do work they are incapable of doing or some special hands off chamomile tea and scented candle approach to detaining the Gorge Floyd's of the world is going to get thousands of people killed. I genuinely expect the murder rates in cities like Minneapolis or Chicago or Richmond Virginia or Portland OR Seattle to double or more... in the next 2 years.
And in the "put on your tinfoil hat world"... I believe this is all deliberate in an attempt to disarm the American people before the actual coup d'etat occurs. In other words, I believe the doubling of the murder rate or worse that we are about to see is deliberate by the power Brokers of the world and that the victims of these murders are just sacrificial unknown Pawns to those that will disarm us, dissolve the Constitution that you (and I) so love... and eventually enslave the citizenry in a new world order dictatorship.
I did a post on Karelian Bear Dogs a week ago or so.
Somewhere in the responses or supplemental reading I forget, someone mention the delta between a wolf and a dog... as well as a coyote and a domesticated dog.
The gist of the conversation was that a wolf or coyote has spent its entire life killing for a living. It knows nothing else and it has no compunction whatsoever about killing. It does it to survive and it is perfectly moral and Perfectly Natural for a wolf and a coyote to kill. It's actually unnatural for them not to.
As a Christian I believe that all human life is sacred and from birth all children are born as Innocents.
At some point in time people diverge from that innocence.
Some people are raised by parents learning right from wrong and spending a career in a white man's world such as the Coast Guard. I am not bashing the Coast Guard I am just saying it is a proper moral respectable and responsible trade where in 98% of the people you run into on the open ocean are damn glad to see you.
The opposite of those are the human beings that are raised with no morality at all... have no father figures and have no guiding forces in their life whatsoever except murderers and criminals. Obviously these individuals become coyotes and wolves and equally obvious they Prey Upon the weak for their very survival. These people would put a knife in your ribs as easy as they would smoke a cigarette. That makes them subhuman...
Many might consider it a reasonable fight to allow their German Shepherd to engage with a wolf. Or their Assiedoodle to engage with a coyote. It is not. The wolf and the coyote have no sense whatsoever of domestication.
This is not a bash upon you Paul... in reality I applaud your Noble intent and you're compunction to always do the right thing. The point that I'm trying to make is that you are more of a domesticated American then a cold blooded natural vermin and you seem naive in what Vermin do for a living.
There's an old military joke that says if you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck.
The overhaul of policing that will come in many cities either through defunding of the police or expecting social workers to do work they are incapable of doing or some special hands off chamomile tea and scented candle approach to detaining the Gorge Floyd's of the world is going to get thousands of people killed. I genuinely expect the murder rates in cities like Minneapolis or Chicago or Richmond Virginia or Portland OR Seattle to double or more... in the next 2 years.
And in the "put on your tinfoil hat world"... I believe this is all deliberate in an attempt to disarm the American people before the actual coup d'etat occurs. In other words, I believe the doubling of the murder rate or worse that we are about to see is deliberate by the power Brokers of the world and that the victims of these murders are just sacrificial unknown Pawns to those that will disarm us, dissolve the Constitution that you (and I) so love... and eventually enslave the citizenry in a new world order dictatorship.
Personally I think a good rule of thumb is that if a politician wants it then it is bad for the rest of us.
I did a post on Karelian Bear Dogs a week ago or so. Somewhere in the responses or supplemental reading I forget, someone mention the delta between a wolf and a dog... as well as a coyote and a domesticated dog. The gist of the conversation was that a wolf or coyote has spent its entire life killing for a living. It knows nothing else and it has no compunction whatsoever about killing. It does it to survive and it is perfectly moral and Perfectly Natural for a wolf and a coyote to kill. It's actually unnatural for them not to. As a Christian I believe that all human life is sacred and from birth all children are born as Innocents. At some point in time people diverge from that innocence. Some people are raised by parents learning right from wrong and spending a career in a white man's world such as the Coast Guard. I am not bashing the Coast Guard I am just saying it is a proper moral respectable and responsible trade where in 98% of the people you run into on the open ocean are damn glad to see you. The opposite of those are the human beings that are raised with no morality at all... have no father figures and have no guiding forces in their life whatsoever except murderers and criminals. Obviously these individuals become coyotes and wolves and equally obvious they Prey Upon the weak for their very survival. These people would put a knife in your ribs as easy as they would smoke a cigarette. That makes them subhuman... Many might consider it a reasonable fight to allow their German Shepherd to engage with a wolf. Or their Assiedoodle to engage with a coyote. It is not. The wolf and the coyote have no sense whatsoever of domestication. This is not a bash upon you Paul... in reality I applaud your Noble intent and you're compunction to always do the right thing. The point that I'm trying to make is that you are more of a domesticated American then a cold blooded natural vermin and you seem naive in what Vermin do for a living. There's an old military joke that says if you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck. The overhaul of policing that will come in many cities either through defunding of the police or expecting social workers to do work they are incapable of doing or some special hands off chamomile tea and scented candle approach to detaining the Gorge Floyd's of the world is going to get thousands of people killed. I genuinely expect the murder rates in cities like Minneapolis or Chicago or Richmond Virginia or Portland OR Seattle to double or more... in the next 2 years. And in the "put on your tinfoil hat world"... I believe this is all deliberate in an attempt to disarm the American people before the actual coup d'etat occurs. In other words, I believe the doubling of the murder rate or worse that we are about to see is deliberate by the power Brokers of the world and that the victims of these murders are just sacrificial unknown Pawns to those that will disarm us, dissolve the Constitution that you (and I) so love... and eventually enslave the citizenry in a new world order dictatorship.
I wish I could write and explain to someone "you don't have a clue" as thoroughly and politely as you did. A very well written and well thought out response.
Probably not the worst generalization. What does Trump want this morning? Probably bad for the rest of us, treasonous anti-American, left wing democrats.
At the end of the day the officers arresting Gentle George used the lowest level of force they could use on an active resistant subject.
The veterans will attest to using the same techniques 100’s of times over the span of two decades.
The city will be shown to have trained the officers to use the technique.
Graham vs Connor will solidify that an officer does not have the luxury of hindsight and that they have no obligation to stop the arrest based on unknown medical issues.
Everything else people say is emotionally driven garbage. AKA horse schit.
At the end of the day the officers arresting Gentle George used the lowest level of force they could use on an active resistant subject.
The veterans will attest to using the same techniques 100’s of times over the span of two decades.
The city will be shown to have trained the officers to use the technique.
Graham vs Connor will solidify that an officer does not have the luxury of hindsight and that they have no obligation to stop the arrest based on unknown medical issues.
Everything else people say is emotionally driven garbage. AKA horse schit.
The fact someone is trying to compare being in the coast guard policing and an inner city cop being a policeman is laugh out loud funny. Talk about apples and oranges. Thanks needed the laugh this morning.
I have been very clear in stating that the tactics don't always translate. If I have made a specific comment with which you disagree, comment on that.
I disagree with your whole premise. You were in the coast guard!!! You have never worked as an inner city cop so you have zero experience as to what the hell you’re talking about. Is that plain enough for you?
What LE experience do you have that places you in a position to state that with any degree of authority? It's borderline hilarious that people that never had the stones to do the job are telling me I am ill qualified to make a comment. I'll point out again that you are dabbling in generalities rather than discussing specifics. There's a reason for that.
Aye Aye Captain Blood... You keep believing all that coast guard training would have made a difference and I will keep laughing at you because you do. I’m obviously not the only one who is. But hey you have a great day.
Actually Paul, you are criticizing Wilson, and almost in the same breath exposing yourself as a narcissist by relaying your CG experience. Then trying to down play that by qualifying to everyone that CG LE is nothing like an inner city patrol cop. The simple fact is. Guys on the street don't have the luxury of backing off and waiting for back up. Let's take Wilson/Brown.....we have an individual who has already assaulted an officer and attempted to disarm him. First where do you think the liability falls if that same suspect is allowed to continue his tirade on the public while an officer "patiently maintains distant contact" while waiting for back up? Give your writings here I am quite certain you would sleep very soundly if that same subject killed some granny while you were waiting for back up instead of engaging him. You and I aren't the same.
In fact for a large part of my career many, many times my closest back up was 30-40 minutes away and that was only if the State Police had some one on that side of the county.
Actually Paul, you are criticizing Wilson, and almost in the same breath exposing yourself as a narcissist by relaying your CG experience. Then trying to down play that by qualifying to everyone that CG LE is nothing like an inner city patrol cop. The simple fact is. Guys on the street don't have the luxury of backing off and waiting for back up. Let's take Wilson/Brown.....we have an individual who has already assaulted an officer and attempted to disarm him. First where do you think the liability falls if that same suspect is allowed to continue his tirade on the public while an officer "patiently maintains distant contact" while waiting for back up? Give your writings here I am quite certain you would sleep very soundly if that same subject killed some granny while you were waiting for back up instead of engaging him. You and I aren't the same.
In fact for a large part of my career many, many times my closest back up was 30-40 minutes away and that was only if the State Police had some one on that side of the county.
He doesn't have a clue. If he did actually encounter crime during his career it would have been aboard a fast boat in the company of plenty of help with no hostile crowd gathering and catcalling to build up nerve to intervene. You and I have done it both ways, with an isolated criminal and plenty of backup, and out in the boondocks on foot one on one or even one on multiple with a subject that could just run off and continue his criminal life if we "disengaged". No need to discourse with him any further.
Actually Paul, you are criticizing Wilson, and almost in the same breath exposing yourself as a narcissist by relaying your CG experience. Then trying to down play that by qualifying to everyone that CG LE is nothing like an inner city patrol cop. The simple fact is. Guys on the street don't have the luxury of backing off and waiting for back up. Let's take Wilson/Brown.....we have an individual who has already assaulted an officer and attempted to disarm him. First where do you think the liability falls if that same suspect is allowed to continue his tirade on the public while an officer "patiently maintains distant contact" while waiting for back up? Give your writings here I am quite certain you would sleep very soundly if that same subject killed some granny while you were waiting for back up instead of engaging him. You and I aren't the same.
In fact for a large part of my career many, many times my closest back up was 30-40 minutes away and that was only if the State Police had some one on that side of the county.
Fantastic post and thank you for your service. I did not in any way mean to sidetrack this thread. I just found Paul’s posts funny. All of you stay safe and have a great day.
Plain and simple George Floyd sold drugs to children! He should have been strung up by the neck until dead on a public street for all drug dealers to see and ANYONE who sales drugs should receive the same punishment! Problem is we live in a pussy society where criminals who destroy the lives of children have more rights than the children they are destroying
Unfortunately the kinder gentler world of police work that PB advocates is probably the future. Politicians will castrate street cops in many areas by removing tools and tactics that work and cops will become much less aggressive in trying to limit the power of the savages among us.
Paul spoke theoretically of de escalation of volatile situations as if it is little used. Every good street cop I ever knew, even those that liked a good fight, was very adept at gerbil voodoo and constantly honed his vocabulary and maximized his command presence. This is nothing new. But when you tell some slobbering, drug crazed awhole to do something he better believe that you mean it and that he will never, ever win.
Actually Paul, you are criticizing Wilson, and almost in the same breath exposing yourself as a narcissist by relaying your CG experience. Then trying to down play that by qualifying to everyone that CG LE is nothing like an inner city patrol cop. The simple fact is. Guys on the street don't have the luxury of backing off and waiting for back up. Let's take Wilson/Brown.....we have an individual who has already assaulted an officer and attempted to disarm him. First where do you think the liability falls if that same suspect is allowed to continue his tirade on the public while an officer "patiently maintains distant contact" while waiting for back up? Give your writings here I am quite certain you would sleep very soundly if that same subject killed some granny while you were waiting for back up instead of engaging him. You and I aren't the same.
In fact for a large part of my career many, many times my closest back up was 30-40 minutes away and that was only if the State Police had some one on that side of the county.
We've already seen that dumbass liberal model. It's called Parkland.
Plain and simple George Floyd sold drugs to children! He should have been strung up by the neck until dead on a public street for all drug dealers to see and ANYONE who sales drugs should receive the same punishment! Problem is we live in a pussy society where criminals who destroy the lives of children have more rights than the children they are destroying
We've already seen that dumbass liberal model. It's called Parkland.Yeah. It failed.. hideously.
Did it ever FAIL. Perfect example of why you don't disengage and wait on backup. If I was that school deputy I would either shoot myself or change my name and move far far away.
We've already seen that dumbass liberal model. It's called Parkland.Yeah. It failed.. hideously.
Did it ever FAIL. Perfect example of why you don't disengage and wait on backup. If I was that school deputy I would either shoot myself or change my name and move far far away.
I'm not going to condone what that deputy did but that was protocol until post-Columbine.
And BCSO never trained their people on the new protocols.
That's why Israel was removed as he should have been.
We've already seen that dumbass liberal model. It's called Parkland.Yeah. It failed.. hideously.
Did it ever FAIL. Perfect example of why you don't disengage and wait on backup. If I was that school deputy I would either shoot myself or change my name and move far far away.
I'm not going to condone what that deputy did but that was protocol until post-Columbine.
And BCSO never trained their people on the new protocols.
That's why Israel was removed as he should have been.
Absolutely correct. Scott Israel is right at the helm of responsibility for Parkland.
If you're streaming Fox News, you will be amazed at the number of "Reinstate Scott Israel" ads being run. Where the hell is all that money coming from?
We've already seen that dumbass liberal model. It's called Parkland.Yeah. It failed.. hideously.
Did it ever FAIL. Perfect example of why you don't disengage and wait on backup. If I was that school deputy I would either shoot myself or change my name and move far far away.
I'm not going to condone what that deputy did but that was protocol until post-Columbine.
And BCSO never trained their people on the new protocols.
That's why Israel was removed as he should have been.
That begs the question of whether he was actually stupid or another administrator that doesn't believe in "warrior cops".
We are 20 years past columbine. It's hard to believe an agency that size has not been trained on current standards and protocols. Christ even the itty bitty agencies in our county have had most of their guys go to active shooter trainings.
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gods children DONT require shooting Mama!!!!!
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