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Joined: Aug 2012
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I can’t believe nobody has volunteered to become a felon yet😂 This^^^^^!
"Keep your mouth shut, work hard. Life is tough. Work through it.” -- Stetson Bennett, Quarterback, Georgia Bulldogs
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Question 21.a on the 4473... You can legally do what he asks as long as the rifle ships to an FFL in AK and HE fills out a form 4473 on it as part of the transfer process. .... However, asking someone to ship directly to him or his FFL is the wrong way to word it in the original post. OP stated shipped to his FFL Not exactly, he did say shipped to "me/or my local FFL" in the original post. I don't think my reading comprehension is that far off. I am trying to find someone that will purchase the rifle and ship it to me/or my local FFL. If you are in the Minneapolis / St. Paul area and would be willing to facilitate this transaction for me please let me know what you would want in exchange for your service. Thanks in advance for the help.
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Shipping to an FFL for OP to fill out a 4473 is not a straw purchase. OP did state ship to him or his FFL. Shipping directly to him is a no no of course.
Buying for purpose of turning an occasional profit is not illegal.
From ATF pamphlet in a quick google search- "As a general rule, you will need a license if you repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. In contrast, if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal collection, you do not need to be licensed."
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Joined: Sep 2016
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OP
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Silly me I assumed that there would be multiple members on this site that hold FFL's and one might be in a position to help me out. Thanks to those who have offered constructive suggestions. To the rest that want to flame me, enjoy. If you don't want to help out please feel free not to.
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Joined: Sep 2016
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OP
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Question 21.a on the 4473... You can legally do what he asks as long as the rifle ships to an FFL in AK and HE fills out a form 4473 on it as part of the transfer process. As long as the OP can pass the background check on his end when he picks the rifle up from his transfer agent there is no straw purchase. If he can't then the transfer agent in AK gets a free rifle to sell as I wouldn't refund the money or pay to have it shipped back to me. However, asking someone to ship directly to him or his FFL is the wrong way to word it in the original post. The best bet for the OP would be he pays a premium to have the guy who is selling the rifle deliver it to a local FFL and pay to have them ship it if he wants the rifle that badly. If I lived in the area I'd sure as charge extra for my time and efforts to go buy a rifle, package it, insure, and ship it to the OP's FFL so he could do the form 4473 on it. There are two on Gunbroker.com right now and both of the seller ship to AK. I'd buy the one for $219 buy it now with $20 ground shipping from TN even though it needs some cleaning up as it looks a little worn. I have, and do see the one for $700 but that is beyond my threshold of how bad I want one. I do not see the listing for the other one. If you could provide a link I would greatly appriciate it.
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I don't know that it would be a straw purchase, as long as the gun was shipped to the OP's FFL... and it would have to, to be legal. The ATF still gets their background check on the OP. I'm not sure how local FTF sales go in MN. Maybe they require a FFL for an instate FFL transfer also, which means that both buyers get checked.. Still, I agree with finding a FFL and arranging for a drop off. I've done that for folks that are skiddish on shipping a gun. Could be the current owner doesn't want any paperwork trail, and that could be a red flag as previously suggested. Could also just be someone that doesn't want to go through the hassle of shipping. Might even think it is illegal to ship a firearm. I've spoken with a lot of folks that are just spooked by the ATF.
Perry
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Joined: Feb 2012
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Deadeye,
Make the seller an offer that is compelling in terms of price for them to ship it FFL to FFL for you. You’re not going to get any members here to get involved in what I think you might not realize is called a “straw purchase.” Look that phrase up and learn.
If you do realize what you’re asking and don’t care then piss off. Think you need to read up on straw purchase. Hes going through a FFL to receive the rifle, meaning paper work and background check I may put myself on ignore after reading my comment and your response! Yeah, if he doesn’t take possession directly from his proxy but rather goes through an FFL to take possession, should be fine. I read that he wanted direct shipment from the buyer to him. He states that as an option but I think maybe he didn’t mean it that way. Either way, open mouth, insert foot on my part. My apologies to the OP for my mistake.
Fear the crabcat.
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isn't it illegal to buy a gun for sole purpose of selling it? Don't gun dealers do that for a living yes , they are gun dealers.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Question 21.a on the 4473... You can legally do what he asks as long as the rifle ships to an FFL in AK and HE fills out a form 4473 on it as part of the transfer process. As long as the OP can pass the background check on his end when he picks the rifle up from his transfer agent there is no straw purchase. If he can't then the transfer agent in AK gets a free rifle to sell as I wouldn't refund the money or pay to have it shipped back to me. However, asking someone to ship directly to him or his FFL is the wrong way to word it in the original post. The best bet for the OP would be he pays a premium to have the guy who is selling the rifle deliver it to a local FFL and pay to have them ship it if he wants the rifle that badly. If I lived in the area I'd sure as charge extra for my time and efforts to go buy a rifle, package it, insure, and ship it to the OP's FFL so he could do the form 4473 on it. There are two on Gunbroker.com right now and both of the seller ship to AK. I'd buy the one for $219 buy it now with $20 ground shipping from TN even though it needs some cleaning up as it looks a little worn. Yeah you can mail a guy a rifle in AK FFL to FFL like you say, but that's not happening here. This is really easy. Prospective buyer goes and tries to buy this rifle and the 4473 is laid out in front of him. He gets to Q 21. 21.a Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) (ATF Form 5300.9A)? Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer, the licensee cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. Exception: If you are only picking up a repairedfirearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 21.a. and may proceed to question 21.b. The answer of course is no, the fella picking up this rifle with intent to forward it to AK can't say "yes" to this question. End of deal.
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[quote=JAC43]Question 21.a on the 4473... You can legally do what he asks as long as the rifle ships to an FFL in AK and HE fills out a form 4473 on it as part of the transfer process. As long as the OP can pass the background check on his end when he picks the rifle up from his transfer agent there is no straw purchase. If he can't then the transfer agent in AK gets a free rifle to sell as I wouldn't refund the money or pay to have it shipped back to me. However, asking someone to ship directly to him or his FFL is the wrong way to word it in the original post. The best bet for the OP would be he pays a premium to have the guy who is selling the rifle deliver it to a local FFL and pay to have them ship it if he wants the rifle that badly. If I lived in the area I'd sure as charge extra for my time and efforts to go buy a rifle, package it, insure, and ship it to the OP's FFL so he could do the form 4473 on it. There are two on Gunbroker.com The answer of course is no, the fella picking up this rifle with intent to forward it to AK can't say "yes" to this question. End of deal. Thought you would be buying it, filling out a 4473, sell it to him, and then ship to his FFL where he fills out a 4473, done deal
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I do not see the listing for the other one. If you could provide a link I would greatly appriciate it.
The answer of course is no, the fella picking up this rifle with intent to forward it to AK can't say "yes" to this question. End of deal.
I've done it a few times, then turned around and shipped a rifle to an FFL of a deserving soldier or other person who I felt deserved a nice rifle. It wasn't a lie, I bought the rifle with the sole intent of giving it to someone else. That doesn't change the fact at the time I filled out the 4473 I was the actual transferee/buyer. Then the person I shipped it to became the actual transferee, this time the OP would be the buyer.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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I do not see the listing for the other one. If you could provide a link I would greatly appriciate it.
The answer of course is no, the fella picking up this rifle with intent to forward it to AK can't say "yes" to this question. End of deal.
I've done it a few times, then turned around and shipped a rifle to an FFL of a deserving soldier or other person who I felt deserved a nice rifle. It wasn't a lie, I bought the rifle with the sole intent of giving it to someone else. That doesn't change the fact at the time I filled out the 4473 I was the actual transferee/buyer. Then the person I shipped it to became the actual transferee, this time the OP would be the buyer. Once you are able to rationalize dishonesty there is no limit to what you might accomplish.
"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
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....well, damn....just damn....
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IMO if you pay seller enough he will get it to a FFL. Up the ante if it's that special to you or keep looking. WTB posts on several sites may get a gun for you as well. Many options!
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I do not see the listing for the other one. If you could provide a link I would greatly appriciate it.
The answer of course is no, the fella picking up this rifle with intent to forward it to AK can't say "yes" to this question. End of deal.
I've done it a few times, then turned around and shipped a rifle to an FFL of a deserving soldier or other person who I felt deserved a nice rifle. It wasn't a lie, I bought the rifle with the sole intent of giving it to someone else. That doesn't change the fact at the time I filled out the 4473 I was the actual transferee/buyer. Then the person I shipped it to became the actual transferee, this time the OP would be the buyer. Once you are able to rationalize dishonesty there is no limit to what you might accomplish. All the form asks is if I'm the actual buyer, it never asks or states that I have to be the actual end user or I have to own it for a certain amount of time. This question is to prevent Straw Purchases for someone who can't legally buy/posses a firearm. This is not the case if you're shipping to a receiving FFL for a legal transfer across state lines to a private individual.
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Edited for legal clairity
The first gun I ever bought as a kid was a Remington 582. About 40 years ago while I was visiting my grandparents someone decided they wanted it more than I did and stole it out of my car. I have always missed owning that gun and over the last few years have been trying to find one to replace it. I have found that they are few and far between. I have located one for sale in the Minneapolis / St. Paul area but the owner will only sell to a local buyer (I am now in Alaska). I am trying to find someone that will purchase the rifle and ship it from a local FFL to my local FFL. If you are in the Minneapolis / St. Paul area and would be willing to facilitate this transaction for me please let me know what you would want in exchange for your service. Thanks in advance for the help. Put out a WTB over on Rimfire Central. Sounds like as mentioned above, your seller may be concealing non ownership.
Moe
"Pick out two!"
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For the first sale, if it is face to face, on a long gun, there would be no paperwork needed. At least if the seller and buyer were both from the same state. If the seller is a dealer, then there would need to be FFL paperwork filled out.
Then the buyer decides he doesn't want the gun any longer, and knows of a buyer in Alaska. He ships it to a FFL transfer dealer in Alaska, and everything is kosher. The gun wouldn't even have to be shipped from a FFL dealer.
Why overcomplicate a fart?
Here is the specifics on Minnesota:
Q: Do the restrictions above apply to person-to-person gun sales?
A: Minnesota doesn't require background checks or permits with private sales, like those at gun shows. A buyer who is 18 can purchase a handgun or assault-style rifle in a person-to-person sale at a gun show or in a personal transaction, and a 14-year-old can buy any other kind of rifle or shotgun in a person-to-person transaction 'without' the permission of a parent.
Last edited by KenMi; 08/12/20.
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I can’t believe nobody has volunteered to become a felon yet😂 This^^^^^! My thoughts also! 😳
"If I couldn't laugh I would go insane." JB
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Why overcomplicate a fart?
Thats the way the guys are on the fire, there key board lawyers
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Better off to just file a KMA 5teD form and be done with it!
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