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Originally Posted by tzone
I find it a bit strange you won’t have him there on opening weekend. He’s either part of the crew or not.

It’s kinda like telling the kids they can come sit at the table for dinner after you’ve eaten the best pieces of steak before they’re allowed to eat.

Struck me as odd as well. Also the thing about the other camp and the new guy shooting a big buck. Any crew I ever hunted with would be thrilled if a new guy lucked into a great buck. At our lease in AL all members and their guests are treated like first class members no matter how long they been around. Its all part of being a good host or hunting partner.


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Originally Posted by tzone
I find it a bit strange you won’t have him there on opening weekend. He’s either part of the crew or not.

It’s kinda like telling the kids they can come sit at the table for dinner after you’ve eaten the best pieces of steak before they’re allowed to eat.



Turning Deer camp into the equivalent of a Presidential inauguration seems a little over the top..."Ok, you will sit here, and here is your choreographed camp protocol..However, it first must be confirmed and officially authorized by the consensus of the 24 Hour Campfire...So the final format has yet to be confirmed...All will be worked out by the evening prior to the opener. This additional individual will require us to work around unfamiliar circumstances. In addition we are short on beds, so he will sleep on the couch, unless one of you wants to give up your bunk."

Either he fits in and is invited back or doesn't. Something that in most cases can be easily determined ahead of the event. In addition some fit in immediately, while others take time on both sides to do the same. Around here the individual who brings another in is the one who gets the raz if it doesn't work out...Then again things work the other way also wink ....

The number of individuals here, who make relatively easy decisions based on 24 Hour consensus, is an interesting internet phenomenon ...

Last edited by battue; 09/07/20.

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You don't know how pleased I am I don't have to go thru this hunting camp B.S. I hunt where I want, when I want, and what I want, With us every critter killed is a trophy to the person that killed it, and we are happy for them. this whole hunting camp thing sounds petty as hell. Rio7

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Originally Posted by RIO7

You don't know how pleased I am I don't have to go thru this hunting camp B.S. I hunt where I want, when I want, and what I want, With us every critter killed is a trophy to the person that killed it, and we are happy for them. this whole hunting camp thing sounds petty as hell. Rio7


Much the same here. Of course sometimes there may be a new guy. In the camp, car, motel or field..How it will workout is usually a given...There can be issues, handle them and move on...


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Not really sure I would want to go hunt where there’s 3 shots a minute flying for 4 hours on opening day. Does everything within a 2 mile radius have dozens of bullet holes in it?

I brought a guy to camp once. He stayed drunk the entire trip and made an ass of himself regularly. I haven’t invited anyone since.

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I have been in the same club for 10 years. Game is pretty abundant. This will be my last season there. I just got tired of it. Rules about this, rules about that, size of bucks etc. etc. I guess I am getting tired of hunting and not having fun. My club is 2 hours from home and the drive is getting old too. I enjoy the range more and more.


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Have you discussed with the new member to see what he thinks? If not, maybe layout both options and let him decide. He might be aligned with you already and then you don’t have an issue.

I can see your points and including him at all is very nice of you but either he is going to fit in or he won’t no matter how you introduce him. Nothing is like the feeling of opening morning. If you are nervous about turning him “loose” by himself then have him hunt with you opening morning.

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Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by RIO7

You don't know how pleased I am I don't have to go thru this hunting camp B.S. I hunt where I want, when I want, and what I want, With us every critter killed is a trophy to the person that killed it, and we are happy for them. this whole hunting camp thing sounds petty as hell. Rio7


Much the same here. Of course sometimes there may be a new guy. In the camp, car, motel or field..How it will workout is usually a given...There can be issues, handle them and move on...



I know a guy who came to hunt and killed a nice one the first day. Everybody was helpful and happy for him! I hope all is well with you Harry.


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Originally Posted by lastround
Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by RIO7

You don't know how pleased I am I don't have to go thru this hunting camp B.S. I hunt where I want, when I want, and what I want, With us every critter killed is a trophy to the person that killed it, and we are happy for them. this whole hunting camp thing sounds petty as hell. Rio7


Much the same here. Of course sometimes there may be a new guy. In the camp, car, motel or field..How it will workout is usually a given...There can be issues, handle them and move on...



I know a guy who came to hunt and killed a nice one the first day. Everybody was helpful and happy for him! I hope all is well with you Harry.



That was a great day and one that had more memories than just a fine Deer...Again I thank all of you for not only the memory, but also the friendship extended...
And for those that don't know, they gave me the best stand on the place, and didn't mind when I put on my own little walkabout... wink

I hope all is well with all of you also...Things are fine here...right now arm wrestling with a rusted trailer hitch....I almost have it pinned....almost.


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Originally Posted by TheKid
Not really sure I would want to go hunt where there’s 3 shots a minute flying for 4 hours on opening day. Does everything within a 2 mile radius have dozens of bullet holes in it?

I brought a guy to camp once. He stayed drunk the entire trip and made an ass of himself regularly. I haven’t invited anyone since.


Actually, no. Even though there are that many shots flying, it all stays well contained. That's not 3 shots per minute. It's 3 shot-strings per minute. I count multiple shots from one source as one shot string. I've seen a WWII vet crawl up in a ball over this kind of incoming. There are a lot more singles now than 20 years ago. The old timers would empty their 30-30's and reload and blast away again until something dropped. Now that sons and grandsons are using more aught-sixes and such that's become a bit of a history. I resided a 100-yr old farmhouse after we moved in and there were no signs. I did have a close shave with a round whizzing past the first year as I was passing between the house and the sheds, but I think that was a disgruntled neighbor tell me what he thought me posting my property. However, this is life in Zone 1 of Kentucky. It's the Big Show.

This fellow is well known to my sons, but unknown to my oldest guest. SuperCore is a retired professor, and I'm sure he's going to underwrite the choice. He was my boss at one time. We've known each other for over 30 years. We're both mentoring types. The whole point here is to bring NewGuy in and show him the ropes.

I love this from The Big Kahuna:


“- Bob Walker: Throw me in the water and see if I can swim?
- Larry Mann: I think you're missing the point here Bob, we're about to throw you off a cliff and see if you can fly.”


Too many rules? No. We have a fairly do-what-ye-may kind of rule book. Nobody goes out drunk. Most guys take a buck before going for a doe, but that's due to the dynamics of the season. Points? Inside spreads? I'd rather pull my own head off. My one rule is that the dinky-doo spikes get mounted in the dining room with a trophy shot. I've got a couple up there myself. The other is Rule 1: Obey all rules. We obey all KY hunting rules, because we're non-residents, and I'm a semi-retired semi-public semi-pro. If a CO wanted to gig someone at our camp, we might be open to Lacey Act violations. We stay spotless.


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Originally Posted by ejo
Have you discussed with the new member to see what he thinks? If not, maybe layout both options and let him decide. He might be aligned with you already and then you don’t have an issue.


He's down with the plan completely as it stands. I discussed this with #2 and #3 son over the past few years, and they've been kind of building up to this in general terms for some time. The watershed was NewGuy spending the money for a full non-resident tag to go squirrel hunting. Other guys have come up to September and looked at the license and tag fees in KY and stay on the other side of the Ohio. He gets 4 tags in Zone 1, one of which can be a buck. Without much effort, he could fill all 4 even if he started the second weekend of season. My guess is he's going to hold out for a buck and fill his freezer, burning just his first tag and go home leaving puddles joy.


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the land i own is kinda small 200 acres so its basically son and i and we have shot some very nice bucks over the years,i have grandkids coming up soon so i save it for my close knit family,i do the minerals and food plotts and just enjoy watching deer every day of the seasons. i never did care much to be in hunting groups to many arguments ,drunks, some don`t pay their fare share and some are just lazy ! i like not seeing people in my deer woods in northern Minnesota.

Last edited by pete53; 09/07/20.

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Shaman - you've obviously put a lot of thought and a lot of heart into your plans for deer camp.

Deciding to spend more time with the new kid and show him the ropes is a far better idea than letting him be lost in the crowd and left to figure things out by himself.

He'll feel more at ease and less like he's going to screw something up in front of a group of strangers.

Have a nice little celebration with him and the rest of your crew when he gets his deer - but you've probably already thought of that.

Then get him into a work crew next year getting the camp ready so he feels he has some investment in the whole process and gets some more time to get to know the regulars.

I predict he'll be a happy, lifelong member of your group.

Well done!


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Originally Posted by czech1022
Shaman - you've obviously put a lot of thought and a lot of heart into your plans for deer camp.

Deciding to spend more time with the new kid and show him the ropes is a far better idea than letting him be lost in the crowd and left to figure things out by himself.

He'll feel more at ease and less like he's going to screw something up in front of a group of strangers.

Have a nice little celebration with him and the rest of your crew when he gets his deer - but you've probably already thought of that.

Then get him into a work crew next year getting the camp ready so he feels he has some investment in the whole process and gets some more time to get to know the regulars.

I predict he'll be a happy, lifelong member of your group.

Well done!




Mister Czech: It's funny you mention work crews. My sons have been pretty good about dragging folks out for campouts/shooting party/work dates. NewGuy is the first one to actually hunt deer or turkey, but if I ask for a work weekend, it gets pretty well attended with able bodies. Folks like the camping and shooting so much, they're happy to come out. As with this past Labor Day, I get treated like royalty. I eat and drink for free.


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Originally Posted by shaman
Interesting reactions. I really had not thought about some of these angles. Let me explain in a bit more detail.

Originally Posted by stealthgoat
hey shaman,

That is an excellent thing for you to do.

I have been that "new guy" in a camp or a lease several times. It can be hard being the new guy coming into a established tight-knit group with history, and trying to learn the culture and fit in.

And great idea to ease him in after the opener, and on a new area that has deer but where he isn't taking someone else's favorite spot.

Tim



I think Tim has the right understanding, but let me go a bit deeper.

1) We have a rather small camp filled with some very large people. NewGuy is similarly sized. I'm sure if we set up for it, we could house 20 guys, but that would take considerable work. At this point, NewGuy will be sharing the attic with SuperCore. If we wait until after The Opener, Angus will undoubtedly be back to work, and it frees a bunk.

2) The Opener is a bit of a ritual. It's a practical ritual in that anything spiritual that comes of it is an afterthought. There is a 1-hour mad dash to get everyone in and settled with the final act being everyone adjourning to the Thoughtful Spot to catch their breath, wipe down the sweat, and drink a stiff scotch. We go from everything stashed in the vehicles to a fully action-ready camp. A new guy, unfamiliar with the drill would throw things into a cocked hat. He would also feel like he was caught in a whirlwind.

3) The Opener itself can be daunting. With 3 shot strings per minute for 4-hours straight, the noise alone can be unnerving to a newbie. It really starts hitting the fan about mid-morning for us, when calls start coming in for "Deer Down." I would rather see him be the only tag filled that day so we can give him full support, and not feel like the odd man out.

4) This fellow is the Buckless Youper. He has heart, he has experience, but his luck has been bad. I think this is his first gun hunt and he's walking into a target-rich environment. It's not like we're going to kill all the deer before he gets there. It is not like he's getting the leavings. I'm sure that if he walks out with a deer, he'll be happy. He'll have an un-hunted area that should be holding a sizeable number of deer chased off the adjoining properties by the Orange Army.

5) We have one member that will probably not be hunting too many more seasons. He's recently had a bunch of heartbreak as well. This is the situation where the old dog is seeing the new pup arrive. I don't want to make this Opener all about the new guy arriving.

6) This isn't a dues-paying camp. It's not like he's not getting his money's worth, and if he shows up mid-week, he's got time to settle in before the second Saturday which is almost as frenetic as The Opener. I'm planning to be down the whole two weeks this year, so I'm sure it might be just him and me for a few days. My guess is that NewGuy will be the cat in the corncrib. Normally, I deliberately space my tags throughout the season. I'll try to fill my tags as quickly as possible this year and then give him 1 on 1 support.

7) I gave y'all the story about the newbie getting the camp record, to show how things can go wrong. In our case, I'm sure this guy would be over the moon if he got The Big One, and none of us would be jealous. We've all had our big moments, and it is time to share them. On the other hand, a lot of other stuff can go wrong. If it does, I'd rather it happen mid-week when it can be handled better.


My expectation is that NewGuy is going to be with us for many seasons to come. My guess is that by next year, he'll be in the bucket brigade slinging gear in the door on Friday night and joining us at the Thoughtful Spot hoisting his dram to the moonlit woods and saluting those that are about to die.


None of that changes my opinion.

If he’s not part of the opening day ritual this season, why do you think he’ll be used to it next season? It just doesn’t make any sense. It sounds more like you don’t want him there but the kids do.


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Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by tzone
I find it a bit strange you won’t have him there on opening weekend. He’s either part of the crew or not.

It’s kinda like telling the kids they can come sit at the table for dinner after you’ve eaten the best pieces of steak before they’re allowed to eat.



Turning Deer camp into the equivalent of a Presidential inauguration seems a little over the top..."Ok, you will sit here, and here is your choreographed camp protocol..However, it first must be confirmed and officially authorized by the consensus of the 24 Hour Campfire...So the final format has yet to be confirmed...All will be worked out by the evening prior to the opener. This additional individual will require us to work around unfamiliar circumstances. In addition we are short on beds, so he will sleep on the couch, unless one of you wants to give up your bunk."

Either he fits in and is invited back or doesn't. Something that in most cases can be easily determined ahead of the event. In addition some fit in immediately, while others take time on both sides to do the same. Around here the individual who brings another in is the one who gets the raz if it doesn't work out...Then again things work the other way also wink ....



I agree.


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Originally Posted by RIO7


this whole hunting camp thing sounds petty as hell. Rio7


It’s usually not. It’s typically a blast and more fun than should be allowed. Probably not different than your hunting leases, but there is usually a “shack” of some sort built with varying degrees of creativity.


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UPDATE: I was able to reach SuperCore and we had a bit of adventure this PM. One of his old buddies is clearing out and we went over to the other side of town and picked up a gun cabinet that will eventually find its way to deer camp after the addition gets built. I let him in on NewGuy joining the Shamanic Dream Team. He concurred on all counts. He is the most recent addition, and he was quite overwhelmed by The Opener. It was partly because of SuperCore that I thought of easing the next guy in. SuperCore did great. He managed to kill 2 deer at his first sitting. However, he was quite overwhelmed. I wasn't quite sure if he was coming back. I waited until March to ask. Yes, he'd made it through, and thought long and hard about it, and finally decided it was the most fun he had ever had. He's been coming ever since. He mentioned all that this afternoon. He still can bring himself to bite his fingernails-- long story. I tell y'all sometime when we're at the campfire together.


BTW: I want to thank y'all for expressing your opinions. I honestly had not looked at it any other way. I went as far as calling down to the farm and double-checking with Moose. Yes, even NewGuy is happy to show up after The Opener.

Last edited by shaman; 09/07/20.

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tzone, There are many hunting camps of various sizes all over Texas, some are on public land most are on private land, our place is all private land, we do not lease any land, we do lease out 16000 acres but not for hunting, for cattle. our smallest pasture is 2500 acres, S. Texas, is a whole different world than what you all are talking about. Rio7

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What do you guys do for the “ritual” of getting all your stuff out and into the cabin that’s so crazy as to potentially give the new guy a fatal case of PTSD?

Our elk/deer camp has been going uninterrupted since 1955. There’s probably been 100 or more guys cycle through as friends or guests over that time. Some were family, some friends, some just guys who knew someone we knew and asked if they could come along. Some of them came once and couldn’t hack hunting in the mountains or made an ass of themselves and were uninvited, some came every year for over 50 years. But we expect all hands on deck when we hit camp and everyone pitches in to put up the wall tent, build the meat pole, erect the schit palace, cut firewood, plumb lights, assemble bunks, whatever needs to be done. It’s part of going to camp. Someone stands around with their hands in their pockets they might be handed a shovel and asked to trench the tent.

You can do as you see fit obviously, it’s your place and your guest. Just seems like there couldn’t possibly be that much “going on” if it’s just some guys unloading a week’s groceries into an old house. Hell we plumb in gas lights and cooking range, put up a real 300lb wood stove, build a dining table and 12 bunk beds, and lay out carpet, in a tent. Plus digging a hole and erecting a tent for the outhouse.

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