I’ve got a new CZ 75D PCR with more than twice the magazine capacity of my .38 Special J-frame. The issue is that while I have some 9mm 115 grain hardball ammo, there is no defensive 9mm ammunition to be found anywhere. Do you think that a person should carry a 9mm with hardball or a .38 Special with +P hollow point loads?
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
I’ve got a new CZ 75D PCR with more than twice the magazine capacity of my .38 Special J-frame. The issue is that while I have some 9mm 115 grain hardball ammo, there is no defensive 9mm ammunition to be found anywhere. Do you think that a person should carry a 9mm with hardball or a .38 Special with +P hollow point loads?
You are not by any means unarmed when carrying a 9mm with ball ammo. The militaries of many nations have been doing it for 118 years. I would score that contest as a win for the 9mm, especially if I liked the CZ better than the snubby. You could always be extravagant and carry both.
Life is like a purple antelope on a field of tuna fish...
I would carry ball, but you haven’t looked too hard for ammo. First site I popped up (sg ammo) has 200 round case of federal 124 gr punch jhp in stock.
By "anywhere" I meant locally and not only 9mm, its like bare shelves for anything in a city of over 100k. UPS goes anywhere and mail order is my only option short term it would seem. As far as we are concerned, the ammo companies should have essential workers.
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
15+1 9mm ball in the bigger, easier shooting pistol.
I'd chose that all day, every day, over a j-frame 38Spl.
Real downside of this pistol are it's large size and heavy weight especially with fully loaded magazine. Unless I lived and or worked in economicaly-challenged neighborhood I would choose J-frame .38. With S&W-branded combat rubber grip J-frame is remarkably easy to shoot using .38+P ammo.
Not sure I buy the Phillips head, solid copper, bullet concept as a stopping round for two legged predators. Seems like it wouldn't be much more destructive than FMJ.
Not sure I buy the Phillips head, solid copper, bullet concept as a stopping round for two legged predators. Seems like it wouldn't be much more destructive than FMJ.
You may want to take another look because they produce large wound channels and penetrate about like an good expanding hollow point
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
15+1 9mm ball in the bigger, easier shooting pistol.
I'd chose that all day, every day, over a j-frame 38Spl.
Real downside of this pistol are it's large size and heavy weight especially with fully loaded magazine. Unless I lived and or worked in economicaly-challenged neighborhood I would choose J-frame .38. With S&W-branded combat rubber grip J-frame is remarkably easy to shoot using .38+P ammo.
Yeah, I had one of the S&W 642 in stainless steel many years back. It was small and handy. I'd prefer to use it for a backup, or deep concealment, rather than EDC. But everybody's situation is different. Main thing, have a gun.
All you will have to do is just shoot close to the bad guy to vaporize him in a red mist with that 9MM Miraculose Farce. That is the reason it is know as the Miraculose Farce is it is beyond description concerning its power.
I AM THE GOOD FRIEND OF RENEGADE50. HE MENTORS ME. HE PUNISHES ME WHEN I AM WRONG. HE CALLS ME OUT WHEN I AM LYING. HE CARES GREATLY ABOUT ME.
I'd rather put a 9mm fmj between a mans eyeballs than a 38+p into his bicep. Haven't yet met a person who can actually shoot a j frame worth a crap . . .
Not sure I buy the Phillips head, solid copper, bullet concept as a stopping round for two legged predators. Seems like it wouldn't be much more destructive than FMJ.
It doesn't do any better than hardball in gel and flesh tests.
I'd carry the hard ball, and an extra mag or two.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
"The FMJ 9mm is over 100 years old. It's killed more folks than all the HPs put together. 'nuff said. "
I don't care if it 'killed' them. Heck a .22 has 'killed' more than any of 'em. But I want it to stop them from killing ME.
Like I said, If I'm gonna use hardball ammo (FMJ) I'll use a .45 Automatic.
Sure, when forced to use fmj I would rather have 11.43mm vs 9mm. In a perfect world we would be presented with J-frame vs Glock 30s, but alas the world will never be perfect. With guns like S&W Shield, XDs as EDC the .45ACP has really come into its own.
If I'm gonna use hardball ammo (FMJ) I'll use a .45 Automatic.
Yep.
But I’d still choose the 9mm with 15 rounds of hardball over the j-frame smith with only 5 rounds any old day and twice on Sunday. At least you can carry spare 15 round mags.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
"The FMJ 9mm is over 100 years old. It's killed more folks than all the HPs put together. 'nuff said. "
I don't care if it 'killed' them. Heck a .22 has 'killed' more than any of 'em. But I want it to stop them from killing ME.
Like I said, If I'm gonna use hardball ammo (FMJ) I'll use a .45 Automatic.
How many world wars and global conflicts has the .22 LR been in widespread use by various nations miliary? How many police departments issue the .22 LR? "The .22 has killed more men than any of them" is often said, but I highly doubt that's true.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
If I'm gonna use hardball ammo (FMJ) I'll use a .45 Automatic.
Yep.
But I’d still choose the 9mm with 15 rounds of hardball over the j-frame smith with only 5 rounds any old day and twice on Sunday. At least you can carry spare 15 round mags.
I personally know a man that used the 9mm in a self defense situation using hardball. He hit the assailant in the thigh with the bullet taking an upward path into the abdomen stopping the attack and killing the assailant rather quickly
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Just buy some Buffalo Boar 9mm Hard Cast Outdoorsman loads. I can tell you from personal experience it works damn well on hogs here at the Ranch. And a well known Alaskan guide here stopped a Grizz with just one shot of it. 🤠
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
Just buy some Buffalo Boar 9mm Hard Cast Outdoorsman loads. I can tell you from personal experience it works damn well on hogs here at the Ranch. And a well known Alaskan guide here stopped a Grizz with just one shot of it. 🤠
Not one shot, he emptied his pistol into the bear and the bear ran a short distance and died
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Just buy some Buffalo Boar 9mm Hard Cast Outdoorsman loads. I can tell you from personal experience it works damn well on hogs here at the Ranch. And a well known Alaskan guide here stopped a Grizz with just one shot of it. 🤠
Not one shot, he emptied his pistol into the bear and the bear ran a short distance and died
Got it.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
Just buy some Buffalo Boar 9mm Hard Cast Outdoorsman loads. I can tell you from personal experience it works damn well on hogs here at the Ranch. And a well known Alaskan guide here stopped a Grizz with just one shot of it. 🤠
Not one shot, he emptied his pistol into the bear and the bear ran a short distance and died
Got it.
That, and Phil was shooting the bear broadside through the ribs, while it was harassing his clients.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
Not sure I buy the Phillips head, solid copper, bullet concept as a stopping round for two legged predators. Seems like it wouldn't be much more destructive than FMJ.
Uncanny timing on this thread, just talked a Bud into giving me 1K Remington small pistol primers from his massive stash for an old man that's afraid he's going to die soon and wants to load 1K 9mm rounds for his daughters and grand daughters, the old man is worried sick on current affairs in the country/world.
I drove the two hours South the other day to bring the man his primers, saw he had a small cardboard box of 115gr fmj flat point bullets, I asked if he had/wanted any hollow point or other type of defense bullet, he smiled and said I aint worried son, these work, so, based on what the old man said, and what I saw from the little 115gr XPT I hand loaded for Wifes P365's, I'd not worry about 9mm FMJ's either, it's going to drill deep holes and break bones.
Not sure I buy the Phillips head, solid copper, bullet concept as a stopping round for two legged predators. Seems like it wouldn't be much more destructive than FMJ.
It is.
SURE is.
Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Mike Day is a Navy SEAL that was shot 27 times. He survived, during the incident he had a close range gunfight with several enemy fighters. Senior Chief Day killed two al Quidah with his 9mm handgun. In an interview he was asked what his favorite ammo was and he said it didn't matter. The interviewer said something about hollowpoint ammo and the SEAL said "I use what I have. If it is FMJ I would shoot them a couple extra times."
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
15+1 9mm ball in the bigger, easier shooting pistol.
I'd chose that all day, every day, over a j-frame 38Spl.
This times 10x.
Lots of people been killed with 9mm ball ammo.....................just sayin'.
Would a prefer a Federal 124 gr HST against a 275 lb, hyped-up close encounter, yes, but in the absence of that ammo, I'd not think twice about using the ball ammo.............but if I could get it, 147 or 124 ball would be preferred over 115 ball.
I’ve got a new CZ 75D PCR with more than twice the magazine capacity of my .38 Special J-frame. The issue is that while I have some 9mm 115 grain hardball ammo, there is no defensive 9mm ammunition to be found anywhere. Do you think that a person should carry a 9mm with hardball or a .38 Special with +P hollow point loads?
Quite a dilemma.
how many licks until you get to the chocolate center of a tootsie pop? 5 or 10?
"The FMJ 9mm is over 100 years old. It's killed more folks than all the HPs put together. 'nuff said. "
I don't care if it 'killed' them. Heck a .22 has 'killed' more than any of 'em. But I want it to stop them from killing ME.
Like I said, If I'm gonna use hardball ammo (FMJ) I'll use a .45 Automatic.
How many world wars and global conflicts has the .22 LR been in widespread use by various nations miliary? How many police departments issue the .22 LR? "The .22 has killed more men than any of them" is often said, but I highly doubt that's true.
Id wager a 6 shot 38 has done in more than an automatic in 9mm, ball and otherwise. Its all about bullets, til its about capacity, until its something else.
9mm ball is just fine if that's all you can find for the time being. Keep an eye out and get JHP as soon as possible, but FMJ will be just fine in the interim.
For a carry gun I'd also consider the quality of the ball ammo. Even the big names put out some duds when it comes to practice ammo.
The 'Nato' marked stuff is loaded to higher velocity and pressure. The 147gr flat point commercial loads can be used for critter defense when camping in woods. Elephant hunters said flat point bullets penetrate better than rounded nose stuff.
Promo price for FMJ (115gr or 124gr)from S&B, Magtech, Geco-Nato is usually around 200€ per 1000. Specialty stuff like 147gr subsonic can go for 300€ or more per 1000.
I'd say a 35 caliber hole all the way through will definitely gets someones attention, shoot for the pelvic bone. If your fighting for your life make em hurt.
147 gr FP ball if I have to carry my Browning HP. The Winchester FPs were in 50 round boxes. I don't know if you can find any now. I have mine. Be Well, RZ.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
I know a hollow pointer is made for the 22LR, to convert RN to HP.
Wouldn't the same principal work using a drill on FMJ 9MM?
Virgil B.
Probably not a good idea, unless we’re in TEOTWAWKI situation. Lawyers will have a field day with a guy that shoots someone with a “modified “ bullet and juries will suck that up like hobo on a ham sandwich.
"May the LORD bless you and keep you, may His face shine upon you, may He be gracious and give you peace" from Numbers 6:24-26
I know a hollow pointer is made for the 22LR, to convert RN to HP.
Wouldn't the same principal work using a drill on FMJ 9MM?
Virgil B.
Probably not a good idea, unless we’re in TEOTWAWKI situation. Lawyers will have a field day with a guy that shoots someone with a “modified “ bullet and juries will suck that up like hobo on a ham sandwich.
You have any proof of this
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
I know a hollow pointer is made for the 22LR, to convert RN to HP.
Wouldn't the same principal work using a drill on FMJ 9MM?
Virgil B.
Probably not a good idea, unless we’re in TEOTWAWKI situation. Lawyers will have a field day with a guy that shoots someone with a “modified “ bullet and juries will suck that up like hobo on a ham sandwich.
You have any proof of this
It's of the same spirit as what I've been told my real lawyers in this area.
I asked about using reloads for self-defense and was advised it was fine, so long as I used common bullet designs from established manufacturers, so long as I didn't modify the bullets. The same principle extended to the use of cast bullets. I was advised to use common designs by established manufacturers. If I designed my own mold, it could present difficulties in a civil suit.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
I know a hollow pointer is made for the 22LR, to convert RN to HP.
Wouldn't the same principal work using a drill on FMJ 9MM?
Virgil B.
Probably not a good idea, unless we’re in TEOTWAWKI situation. Lawyers will have a field day with a guy that shoots someone with a “modified “ bullet and juries will suck that up like hobo on a ham sandwich.
You have any proof of this
Nope. Just what I’ve been reading for the last 45 years. But why take the chance? We’ve pretty much established that hardball works. And, I suspect that “hollow pointing” a FMJ bullet would result in a pretty crappy bullet anyway.
"May the LORD bless you and keep you, may His face shine upon you, may He be gracious and give you peace" from Numbers 6:24-26
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