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Those earlier filibustering lads like Philip Nolan and Anthony Glass were trading for horses and mules from the Comanche circa 1795-1805. They were all heading west out of Natchitoches. Nolan had his connection to the traitorous Gen. James Wilkenson as he was Wilkenson’s secretary. ( Jane Long was Wilkenson’s niece. But that’s another story)

The comanches were the premiere horse and mule traders at that time, before their cattle raising days.

Glass ended up involved with the retrieval of the Texas Iron;

https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/texas-iron

And Nolan ended up taking a spanish cannon ball in the face.

Fun times!!

Yep. Slinging Sammy Baugh. One of the greatest QB’s to ever play the game! His Ranch is The Double Mountain Ranch. I believe his son runs it now.

Of course, it's only fitting that Texas has the largest meteorite, KW.

🤣

Back at Adobe Walls

I believe William Bent (remember Bent’s Fort) l, established Adobe Walls as a trading house with the Comanche and Kiowa. It was never a popular spot. Best I remember the reasoning behind this was due to different tribal rivalries caused situations when several different groups would meet up unexpected like at his fort.

For the most part the Southern Cheyennes and the Comanche-Kiowas all got along pretty good. ( There was a lot of pony raids went on between them tho). But other bands that occasionally visited caused issues. William’s 1/2 breed son George explains some of this in the bio written about him named "The Life of George Bent”. He also explains a bit about the Second battle in the same book from a southern Cheyenne perspective.

A good rendition of Kit Carson’s first battle can be found in Hampton Sides book “Blood & Thunder". An excellent read on Carson and the southwest!

Bob, is that book still in print ???

I don’t know if Bent’s bio is but there should be affordable used copies available on Amazon

The carson book is pretty easy to find. And I believe still in print. Used copies ought to be pretty cheap.

Thanks! I’ll have to see if I can locate one.

When they were filming Lonesome Dove, Tommy Lee Jones took Robert DuVall out to meet Slingin' Sammy. DuVall said he crafted his portrait of Gus based on talking to Sammy that day.

Pekka Hamalienen in his recent "Comanche Empire" had it that the Comanches were trading horses and mules to Americans on a scale unprecedented in history. Certainly the popular stories of rapine and pillage were most all true, but there was apparently a whole 'nother side to the Comanches generally overlooked: Pragmatic businessmen, which is why them trading cattle on a large scale to the Army in New Mexico in '73 was not unprecedented.

A whole bunch of trade by Mexicans to the Americans too. In 1840 when the residents of Linnville on the Texas Coast saw a herd of 2,000 horses approaching. They assumed it was another bunch of Mexican traders en route to the US. In fact it was Comanches and Kiowas driving that stock during their Great Comanche Raid. But the Linnville people were almost right, that herd had been stolen outside of Victoria, from Mexican traders en route to Louisiana.

Likewise Olmstead, in 1857, observed herds of Mexican horses and mules driven regularly up for trade in San Antonio and beyond, by Mexicans.

And then there were the hundreds of Mexican carretas (ox carts) and their poorly-armed owners, regularly creeping across the plains at around five to ten miles a day, throughout that whole period. Early Texas commerce rolled on Mexican ox carts, which is why the Texas Rangers responded so swiftly when certain Anglo residents of Victoria took up piracy in 1857 (AKA The Cart War). Them thieves were stepping on the wealthy merchants' toes.

I have participated in (2) 1 mile shoots with black powder cartridge rifles. Didn't make it this year, both times in the past I used my 45 2 7/8" Shiloh sharps, it's a Business rifle model with a 30" round barrel and an original style chamber for original style paper patch bullets. The mold is an adjustable for length and weight I run them 1.462" long at 540 grains 1-50 alloy pushed by 106 F g black. The target is a 12x7' piece of steel with a black paint job and 5' white bullseye. It is small but very visible at 1760 yards. 9/20 is the best I've done. My gun and load are more capable than I am. Elevation you can dial but windage is the great equalizer. Last time I shot it I had on 348 moa of elevation and was 52 moa left windage to connect. Even when the wind isn't blowing you need 2.5-3 moa for precession it takes 7-8 seconds for the bullet to get there. So you can shoot follow thru take a drink of water then look thru the spotting scope to watch your shot hit. Last shoot I went to was won by a wyo guy shooting his 50 2 1/2" shiloh with 700 gr bullets and a big dose of Fg. Once you have the equipment it is practice that gives you the ability. Mb

New Mexico Military Institute (NMMI) does the same job as VMI in the East, and as Canastego speaks of in 1744. Mari Sandoz wrote the Buffalo Hunters known as
hide hunters. Both Wyatt Earp and James Hickok spent time in hide wagons before using Sharps cartridge rifles. The percussion era still used
Springfields and some used lost or issued 1873 45-70 Springfields later. The Sharps were better rifles until the 1885 Winchester SS
came about in 1885 and later. By then the bison were almost wiped out.

Ole Sammy was definitely a character!

Josiah Gregg on his last trip to Santa Fe (1838-39 I think) anyway the basically followed the Canadian west instead of the usual Santa Fe trail route. They stayed with the Comanches about a week or so!

There is a reference to his demonstrating his Colt’s repeating pistol to a Comanche chief somewhere in the vicinity of the 100th Meridian after crossing into " Mexican” territory. Gregg unholstered and showed the chief the gun then fired several shots in rapid succession. He mentioned the chief caught on to his demonstration and took his bow and shot just as many arrows in just as many seconds!

Ya, accounts say Plains Indians fired from a bow held horizontal and fired by "feel" or "instinct" rather than sighting down the arrow. Texas Ranger Captain RIP Ford in his memoirs places the bow and revolver on a rough parity, An Indian on a running horse could put multiple arrows into the air in quick succession and hit your horse or you at 100 yards. Ford specifies that at 60 yards or more, if you witnessed the Indian in the act of loosing the arrow, an active man could dodge. Less than 60 yards or if you weren't looking, no so much.

IMHO the impact of the revolver on Plains combat is way overblown. 50% odds aren't very good for a career Ranger, and the big problem was getting within range of a fleeing Indian with anything, let alone a handgun. The rifle ruled the Plains, what you did is get within range, dismount, and shoot the other guy off his horse.

Birdy,

I seem to remember a band of comanche staying just west of San Felipe for a week or so fraternizing with the locals. 1830-ish???? I think it was mentioned in Deshields book.

If its the account I'm recalling, observers said they were short, skinny and hungry. In a bad way. Not too impressive.

During the big drought in the 1850's that left many Comanches hungry and drove numbers onto the Brazos Reserve (??) for the first time, I do note that these hungry ones just didn't relocate to join their tribesmen further West. I suppose some did, but perhaps not all Comanches knew or felt especially charitable to each other.

Even flock shooters can get lucky 😯

Iron front sight at that range would pretty much cover all your Indians at the same time.

The Colt Patterson's were no doubt, less effective than subsequent models. The Walker and the ensuing Dragoons were much better guns and when the Navy came along, combining effectiveness with a much more manageable size, then you have guns which could certainly change the outcome of a given close-quarters engagement, especially in a running fight on horseback where rifles couldn't be brought into serious play. Ask the damnyankees that faced the Missouri "bushwhackers" about the effectiveness of cap and ball revolvers. This plus the fact that you aren't necessarily talking about weapons making the opposing force "better" than the Indians, but rather putting them on a parity with them in a running fight. Before that, a heavy Plains rifle was outclassed by the Comanches' bow and arrow in a horseback battle, as far as firepower. This particular battle demonstrates how the rifle ruled the field of battle anytime you were talking about fortified positions vs. the Indians attacking with no cover. Much is made of the extreme shot, but the battle was already over by then and the Indians would have soon quit the field anyway. Even without the Sharps rifles, the hunters probably would have won, even with old antique Plains rifles.