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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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By definition a Pharisee is one who follows rules, liberal or conservative, as a means of earning God’s favor and salvation. Well that ain’t the way that Jesus saw them. He didn’t just call em’ hypocrites, He also called em’ vipers, and whitewashed tombs...which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness. Meaning that they also outwardly appeared righteous to others (and themselves), but within they were full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. Jesus’ opinion of the Pharisees was clearly different than yours is. ALL denominations within Christianity follow traditions. All are liturgical in that all follow an order of service be it high order or low order. No they don’t. Sayin’ it’s so doesn’t make it so. Man-made ‘traditions’ of doctrine and obedience, just like man-made creeds and catechisms, are clearly all important to some...while others choose to put their hope and salvation in the righteousness and resurrection of Jesus alone. The definition of Pharisee does not apply as you are using it. Yes it does. Jesus’ opinion of them...which He made very clear...is an opinion that I happen to share with Him. And it applies to the Pharisees of His day, and to the modern-day Pharisees of today. Neither does your definition equate needless tradition that is extra Biblical to traditions that are sound examples of Christian orthodoxy. The history of the church is ripe with examples of ‘Christian orthodoxy’ that is extra Biblical to the Nth degree. If one chooses to live by man-made creeds and catechisms and man-made traditions of rules and regulations and doctrines and obedience...all man-made standards of holiness...that’s their prerogative. Others prerogative is to put their hope and salvation in the righteousness and resurrection of Jesus alone. So who are the modern day Pharisees in your opinion? Which historic confessions, creeds and catechisms to you hold as teaching doctrine contrary to scripture?
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
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It's all well, and good to get into the fine points, never forget the Gift of His Grace.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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No disagreement with that. The finer details help us see the graciousness of Grace all the better.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So who are the modern day Pharisees in your opinion? Those who place more importance on religious rules and regulations than on other people, including other believers. They place their own holiness above that of others; because of the importance they place on religious rules and regulations and creeds and catechisms...they think they’re better and holier than others, including other believers. They love their religion, and especially the minutiae of its rules and regulations and creeds and catechisms, more than they love the people for whom the religion was given. And when other believers disagree with some of the theology of modern-day Pharisees, the Pharisees openly doubt, and even openly deny, that that believer has knowledge or is even a Christian. Such as: I appreciate your zeal but zeal is not evidence for or a substitute for knowledge....stop acting as though you are an authority on the subject. You have no ground to stand upon other than that which you have made. ...I find nothing related to Christianity in what I’ve been able to understand from your posts. Modern-day Pharisees castigate others for not believing the right things, according to them, and also criticize others for not fitting into one of their religious categories...or for not going by everything that they consider to be orthodoxy. Modern-day Pharisees exhibit no grace toward others...they look down upon others for not believing as they do regarding religious rules and regulations. They major in minor things, like religious rules and regulations and creeds and catechisms, to the neglect of major things, like grace and love toward others. They are the polar opposite of Jesus, and what He taught.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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If you will read carefully the statement that you quote in isolation you should realize that it does not question the Christianity of whoever it was that I was responding to. To say that there is nothing Christian in what is read is not to say that person isn’t a Christian. I used to say a lot of unbiblical things as a Christian before I knew the issues better.
Do you find offense in the Westminster Confession of Faith? The Apostles Creed? The Nicene creed? The Athanasian Creed? The 1689 Baptist Confession? The Book of Concord? The Heidelberg Catechism? The Lutheran Small and Large Catechisms? The Shorter and Longer Westminster Catechisms?
Last edited by IZH27; 09/23/20.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,544 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,544 Likes: 11 |
The history of the church is ripe with examples of ‘Christian orthodoxy’ that is extra Biblical to the Nth degree. Which historic confessions, creeds and catechisms do you hold as teaching doctrine contrary to scripture? “Examples of ‘Christian orthodoxy’ that is extra Biblical...” are: That the communion elements become the actual blood and body Jesus. Praying to saints That the Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation. That sacred tradition is equal to scripture. That grace can be merited. That the Catholic Church is the one true church. That forgiveness of sin and salvation is by faith ‘and’ works. Indulgences. Purgatory. The infallibility of the Roman Catholic Church. That only the Roman Catholic Church has the authority to interpret Scripture. Mary as Mediatrix. Full benefit of salvation is only through the Roman Catholic Church. That penance is necessary for salvation. That Mary delivers souls from death, and that she brings us the gift of eternal salvation.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
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Do you find offense in the Westminster Confession of Faith? The Apostles Creed? The Nicene creed? The Athanasian Creed? The 1689 Baptist Confession? The Book of Concord? The Heidelberg Catechism? The Lutheran Small and Large Catechisms? The Shorter and Longer Westminster Catechisms? Nope. But I don’t deem ‘any’ of em’ bein’ important in relation to the message of the Gospel, or the extension of grace and love and forgiveness to other people, or in putting my hope and salvation in the righteousness and resurrection of Jesus alone.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Thank you for being specific. That helps with the conversation immensely.
Last edited by IZH27; 09/23/20.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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33....same age as Jesus was when he died
Hardin284
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