Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 358 Win Pre-64 Fwt

What was the runout on the cartridges assembled from the expanded 243 brass?

The cases were very uniform, necks not thinner (at least looking at them, didn't mic them). They're as concentric as others.

I was surprised how easily they expanded from .243 to .358, really no harder than expanding a .308 to .358.

And, all this was with fired brass, no new stuff. Forming .240 Wby from 25-06 takes a good bit of muscle power. With those, virgin brass is MUCH easier to use than fired stuff.

With .358 forming, fired brass works very well, but I didn't try virgin brass as a comparison.

I split 3 .243 cases forming 40 or so. Only split one .308 out of nearly 50.

I have no .358 ammo with correct headstamp. But quoting a renowned sage from the North, "it's the boolit, not the headstamp...."

DF

I thought that much expansion may lead to some runout in the loaded rounds.

You 358 guys are giving me the new cartridge itch which I really don't need these days. I should have bought one at a gun show a number of years ago. A vendor who had a lot of Ruger stuff had one at a very fair price. I don't remember if it was a MkII or a Hawkeye.

Runout was checked on my Sinclair gauge and all expanded cases are very concentric. And, I'm using Lee dies. I went with them because I wasnted a Lee Factory Crimp die for cast bullets and that was the least expensive way to go. I got the 3 die set, not the 4 die set with Collet Neck sizer.

One more issue to solve.

The set up as shown with the 4200 3-9x40 in Weaver Med rings, the bolt handle does touch the ocular a bit and any is too much.

I subsequently mounted it with high Weavers (.332), and they work, just wish the scope was a tad lower.

I would like QD type rings that are .250" or so high. Weaver Med .164" is too low.

Warne Maxima QD low is .250, but they are $57 wholesale at Brownells. Leupold QRW2 low is .250. It looks like they'll fit Weaver bases, but they offer their own QRW bases.

I want QD so I can use other scopes for pistol bullets, etc, without a new sight in. I plan to keep the Bushnell 4200 dedicated to my hunting loads.

Any suggestions?

DF

How about the Warne Maxima Horizontal? The low is .250". Midway sells them for $48.

Now, that's not a bad idea. I don't really need QD, just return to zero, which those do.

May get a set.

Thanks,

DF

Just ordered a set of Warnes from Midway. $47, less than Brownell's wholesale and free shipping. I've noticed that Brownell's prices aren't competitive in many cases.

I added a small set of punches to exceed the $48 minimum needed to save $7 shipping. So, the punches ended up pretty cheap.

I looked at Leupold PRW rings, but on comparing those two, the Warnes seem to be better thought of by BG hunters using the QD versions.

I can remove the scope with a Torx wrench, replace it with no loss of zero.

I have an old Bushnell Banner 4X with fine crosshair that fits the rifle well with Med Weavers. The ocular is smaller, doesn't touch the bolt handle. It's not much of a scope, but does track and is clear enough to play around with pistol bullets. I also have a 4-12x40 Simmons Pro Hunter that will work. The Banner actually mounts better, the Pro Hunter has a short ER.and short 1" tube, doesn't mount as well, can't get it pulled back far enough.

I had a Vari X III 1.5-5x20 Duplex I mounted, but couldn't sight it in. POI went all over the place with adjustments, so it goes back. Not the first one. They'll probably replace it with a VX-3i 1.5-5x20, which I'll give to my son to sell on eBay, still sealed in the factory box. It's a friction adjustment version, so it's pretty old but wasn't used that much, never abused. Gloss finish is perfect without marks. So, doubt they'll fix it. If they do, I'll give it another try.

DF

Here's what they look like with 200 FTX seated. I left the cannelure high, didn't need to seat that deep. The Pre-64 Box Mag is pretty generous, the throat not a problem.

Back row are 158 gr RN revolver bullets over Unique and 2400. Will use another scope for those.

DF

I saw where MidwayUSA had a special on the 200 FTX at a good price, so I bought a box. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022919956?pid=520778

Except, they looked a bit different so I weighed one. They are 180 gr., not 200 gr. So, I thought they may be the 180 gr FTX for the 350 Legend. But those are .355", these measure the same as the 200 gr. FTX, which is reported to be .358", (actually closer to .357"+). An odd bullet for sure, maybe that's why they're sold in a blue Midway box. Usually Midway won't ID blue box bullets, but did these, except with the wrong info.

Notice the Midway label and compare the two bullets. I've shot 180 gr. Speer Flat Nose .35 Rem bullets and these 180 FTX (whatever they are) may shoot pretty well. I see they're sold out, so this is probably a one time thing. Just another curiosity.

DF

I also seat short of the cannelure for my BLR with Hornady 200 ILs both RN and SP over IMR-3031.

What's your best 200 gr. load with 3031?

DF

49 gr was max in my rifle, at which recoil noticeably stiffened, but not intolerable at the bench (using CCI#200 primers). I settled on 47.5 gr but could run 48.5 and not be pushing it with similar accuracy. Your mileage may vary. I referenced Lee Modern Reloading Manual, 2nd Ed for data.

I informed Midway about the 200 gr. FTX bullets being 180 gr. They offered a return and refund. I told them because they're not .355", but closer to .358", I'd use them. My message was more FYI than anything else. Sorry was their only response...

DF

The Midway label explains the FTX logo. Flex Tip eXpanding. I got the FT part, wasn't sure where they came up with the X...

For sure, this is trivia that would only interest a Loony...

I can now rest better at night, this issue having been settled.

DF

Took your advice, worked perfectly. Can remove without losing zero. No bolt handle drag, low enough for good cheek weld.

Just not as retro looking as the Weavers with older style, big attachment screws with knurled edged for hand tightening.

These require a Torx wrench, which is not a big deal. Don't need QD in this application.

DF

Good deal!

Well, I shot this afternoon. I didn't get thru all the ammo I brought, was also shooting other guns.

These days, I tend to run out of gas before I run out of ammo. A few decades ago, it was always the other way around.

Pistol bullets shot very well, the 170 Gold Dot and the 180 XTP over RL-7 were both sub MOA. I used 44 gr. with the 170, 42 gr. with the 180. Nathan Foster in NZ likes the 170 GD more than the 180 XTP, says it holds up better at .358 velocities, suggest slowing the XTP down, full speed for the GD.

Those 180 gr. Midway FTX's that I mentioned earlier shot .9" over 42 gr. RL-7

The ten 200 gr. FTX loads I pictured, well I got thru half of them. 47 gr. 8208 and 48 gr. 748 were both MOA.

Speer 180 flat point 180's shot .85" with 42 gr. RL-7.

Midway had some more of those blue box 200 FTX's, so I bought another box. Bet they're 180's, but they do shoot well.

I've yet to try 225's and other loads.

I was worried about fouling, but a look thru the Hawkeye, not so bad. Gun is soaking with Patch Out and should clean up even easier than before. DBC works that way.

I don't remember a round with this many options and this much fun.

DF

Absolutely!

Glad you guys have discovered the fun. Be Well, RZ.

Yeah, pretty cool round.

Shooting the remaining test loads, I did not get decent 200 gr FTX groups with TAC, RL-10 or H335. Did pretty well with Benchmark, H-322 and 2230 (similar to X-Terminator). Seems TAC does very well with heavier bullets shot faster. May use it with 225 Sierras, 200 NAB's. Can't find 225 NPT's. I'm not a fan of 250's in the .358 Win.

So the good ones with the 200 FTX are 8208, 748, Benchmark, H-322 and 2230. Fortunately I have enough of those (except H-322) to last for a while. With some powder now hard to find, I can make do with those for now.

The 180 FTX (uncatalogued Midway blue box bullet) shoots very well, actually it's a bit more accurate than the 200 FTX. It and the Speer 180 flat nose should kill about anything I'm gonna be shooting. I don't want to push either one to the max the gun will do, trying to stay within their design velocity windows, trying to not exceed 2,500 fps.

The heavy .357 pistol bullets (170 Gold Dot and 180 XTP), while not that streamlined and with B.C.'s not as good as rifle bullets, did shoot very well, should kill stuff at reasonable ranges just as dead.

For plinking, looks like the 150 Sierra and 158 Horn revolver bullets over 20 gr. 2400 will do just fine. I was getting inch groups at 50 yds. Cast pistol bullets were shooting patterns not groups. Cast may need to go slower with Unique, Red Dot, etc. With those, I am using a cheap Bushnell Banner 4X scope with fine cross hairs. I wouldn't give you $30 for it, but it works well for that use and tracks well. Glass isn't bad for a $30 scope. I can swap out scopes and not have to change scope settings.

DF