Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors How to blow up a Savage 99

True confession time, pertaining to heat (and not much of it relatively speaking) detonating a cartridge.

Long ago in a galaxy far away, I was in the basement pulling bullets out of some old .25-20 Single Shot cartridges to salvage the brass to make R2 Lovell's out of them. All went swimmingly until I got to the very last one which refused to budge. Sooo, I got the bright idea of drilling a tiny hole down through the tip of the jacketed bullet with the idea of running a tiny Easy-Out in to twist it free. I know, I know. With the cartridge held snugly in a chuck, I didn't get maybe barely through the bullet with the bit, when BANG! The case ruptured like a banana peel, the primer went God knows where, and mysteriously the bullet disappeared too. Never found it. Thankfully not a mark on me, but I had some 'splainin' to do with the wife.

Heat was the only possible explanation because the bit didn't go barely beyond the bullet base, certainly not deep enough to engage the primer. That ruptured case remains in view on my loading bench to this day 40 years later as a constant reminder to not be a dumbass.

Yes?? this is the impression i had too. that the extractor was engaged on the rim, then that might explain the bolt/lever being stuck in nearly-cocked position with the case not quite chambered?? I might have tried yanking the lever open, even at the risk of wrecking the extractor, the firing pin would have been moving away from the primer with every action.

Still glad it turned out for the best with your friend, that's the bottom line in all of this.., too close to serious for me.

I just had a similar jam last Friday without the KaBoom. 358 Brush Gun and handloads with the 200 gr Hornady spire point and a compressed powder charge. 2nd round of the day, when I pulled the trigger, I got 'click'. Figured it was a misfire, waited a minute and tried to eject the round. The lever dropped a little but then it wouldn't move. I could close it but couldn't open it very far at all.

Took the gun home, took off the stock and looked closely. The back of the bolt was dropping out of engagement with the rear of the receiver so I grabbed a straight blade screw driver and there was enough clearance at the front of the bolt to insert it between the bolt and the front of the receiver and gently pry the bolt backwards.

The case came back minus the bullet which dumped the powder into the magazine. The bullet was stuck in the rifling bad enough I had to use a light tap on the cleaning rod with a hammer to get it out, couldn't do it with just my hand. I held the rifle upside down and used a can of compressed air to blow the powder out of the magazine.

The bullet had marks from the rifling on it. I measured the other 16 rounds in the box, all were a touch under the OAL limit. I'm guessing bullet creep from the compressed powder charge caused that one round to be too long. But I've loaded to that length for a couple of years now, with no problems. I used to seat the bullets deeper and never had any problems then either.

I was at the range on Tuesday, everything worked just the way it is supposed to. Anyhow, glad the other guy is OK. Glad I'm OK too!

Dale

I talked to John today. He said he dug some plastic out of his finger. Jag or bullet tip I don't know.

To answer some questions-

The bolt was open when he tapped on the cartridge.

He did get very aggressive with the lever trying to get it closed. It was wedged in there tight, somehow, against whatever it was.

He was single loading them, so no bullet creep.

I haven't seen the rifle, so I don't know how badly it's damaged. He thinks the rotor is bent.

Anything I missed?

If the bullet was rapidly driven farther into the case of a already compressed load the pressure in the case would have risen exponentially possibly causing the primer or the powder or both to detonate.

Member when we were kids and used to hit the the whole roll of pop gun caps with a hammer?

Ker-Pow.

The bolt was open, not up against the cartridge. I assume he pulled the lever back down hard enough the extractor was able to pull over the rim of the cartridge. How else could he get it open? Maybe the extractor never engaged, I really don't know. I've not studied that.

Gary, as far as things being tweaked and all, I'd retire that gun if it was mine, just on general principle. How in the world could anyone ascertain what damage may have been done, and why risk it? Just buy another one, they're plentiful. He just loves this one in particular because he got his biggest blacktail ever with it. You guys may remember this photo of me with his 99R and buck. We spotted him about 600 yards away and I guided John to within about 60 yards and the R made a good shot. He was a dandy.

You're a brave man.

Dale K's comment on the brush gun is interesting. I tried to load some heavy for caliber, probably 250 grain, pointed bullets for my brush gun and the powder was compressed to the point that it was pushing the bullet back out as soon as I took them out of the reloading press. I went to something lighter but wasn't getting good accuracy. Some day I'll try some other loads. I want to sell the gun but won't let it go till I know the bad accuracy was the loads and not something wrong with the rifle. This incident is scary. I've pushed a few stuck bullets out with a cleaning rod.

The fact that the bolt was open certainly saved him from serious injury or possibly worse. If the bolt had been closed the force of the explosion would have had only way way to escape.

Up the barrel.

But then again how would you get the live round out with the bolt closed?

I'm just happy for your buddy he wasn't seriously injured.
I know I'm the odd duck here, but that is one reason I do not shoot reloads.
My buddy has been reloading for years. He loves it and appears quite good at it. He's very detail oriented.
He got a new rifle a number of years ago and brought it and his hand loads to Montana Deer and Elk hunting. He went to unload his rifle one morning to get back in the truck and the bullet stayed in the chamber and dumped powder in the action. No cleaning rod in the truck and he was done for the day. Apparently the OAL was a hair+ too long.
I loaned him a handful of my factory loads and he was good to go the next day........

I would dispute those 4 words.

If someone would like to point out the flaw in the reloading program I would be very grateful so it could be avoided in the future.

He had a cartridge fail to chamber by, in his words, about an 1/8". I'm not seeing an 1/8" as a reloading procedural problem. Ammunition is built in batches, not one a day over the course of months, with the dies constantly being reset between single loadings, thereby introducing the potential for operator error.

The dies are set, a batch is produced at those settings. As mentioned, this batch of ammunition was being used in three different 300 Savages that day. I helped him sight in his sons and grandfathers 300's while he sighted in this 99R. He had already fired several rounds when he had this one fail to chamber. He took it home and blew the gun up at home.

If it has to do with the reloads, I need to understand how. Of course we considered the possibility, but so far can't make a connection.

Maybe *more crimp on the bullet would have prevented the bullet from pushing into the case? Maybe that's the answer?

Apparently!
He "blew it".

Yep, the more I think about it, the more that makes sense. A heavily crimped bullet would completely eliminate the possibility of primer ignition from compression of the powder column inside the case.

What do you all think of that?

The initial problem was why it didn't chamber all the way.

Likely problems: case wasn't properly resized down, the bullet was extended too far forward, or there was something in the chamber. I'd say #1/#2 are most likely based on watching a lot of guys shoot at the range. Never seen anybody with something in the chamber.. seen a number of bad reloads.

The actual explosion I still think was most likely from the force of pounding on the bullet. I don't think more crimping would help for a bullet that's seriously jammed in, brass is soft enough to push in with enough force.


Prime 200 empty cases. Then start depriming them. See if any go off from pressure pushing down on the primer.

I'm betting that cartridge had its bullet seated way too far out and it jammed solidly into the leade when he tried to chamber it. Most likely cause: inadvertently short stroking the press handle. The fact that he couldn't subsequently eject the cartridge says that bullet fit in those cartridges was/is pretty darn tight, so crimping would've been superfluous (and would be in future with the same lot of brass/bullets). Normally in a situation like that the bullet stays put- jammed into the leade- and the case pulls away from it when ejection is attempted, unless like now it was inordinately tight in the case neck.

Any cartridges left over from that batch? If so, maybe it's time to start pulling bullets to see if I'm all wet with this conjecture. Mic the neck wall thicknesses and inside diameter of necks (maybe after running a couple back through the sizing die to get a true pre-seating measurement), and compare to the bullets y'all were using. You only need a couple thousandths interference fit to secure a bullet in a case neck.

Compressed powder charge that could've pushed the bullet back out of the case too far? It happens. But then the case would've shucked itself off the bullet upon attempting ejection.

It would seem you guys experienced a perfect storm of small things that added up to a catastrophe. Just what each of those small things were remain a mystery.

Me neither. Unless they were shooting in the middle of a sand storm, not likely.

While I know this can happen, I don't think it happened in this case. If the bullet was stuck in the lands and the bolt was open, hammering it out wouldn't have pressed the bullet into the case. Seems like the case itself was wedge in the chamber somehow with the bullet free and able to move.



Agreed. We'll probably never know.

How about case length?

An 1/8" too long? Never. Not. Ever. Brass is trimmed in batches as well.




Picture this. Cartridges side by side in one of those plastic ammo boxes, 50 per. A sea of pretty brass and blue tips sticking up. Except for that one. It's an 1/8" taller than the rest. And we didn't notice it when we loaded it, or subsequently at any time the box was opened.

Uh, no.