Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters H414 discontinued 😡

Just buy up every 8lb jug of WW-760 you can find.

Or BG, which I'm using where I may have used 760. I think it's cleaner and reportedly more temp stable.

Would like to see comparisons from those who have used both of those side by side in a round.

IME, it would be hard to beat BG in rounds like the '06, 7-08 and similar, although I agree that H-414/W-760 is pretty good.

DF


Edited to add, I agree with you on H-380 in the .338-06, although it's pretty close to Pw Pro 2000 LR and CFE-223, (some say those are very similar if not the same), also close to LVR, which is sorta a niche powder. I understand when something works, it's hard to go looking...

Those are all newer powders, may be cleaner, etc. Not sure but would suspect that to be the case. I haven't tried those in the .338-06. H-380 works.

BG and the like have always been unobtanum powders here, 760 will get it done, in the case of it and 380, the rifles I fire them in are not long range affairs, don't believe I can 'hold' the difference in the field to notice a few fps more or less in velocity.

Did you try my H-380 load in 338-06?

Yeah, H-380 is good stuff in the 338-06, for sure.

Powder Valley is a good source for powder you don’t see locally. I like BG better than 760, which is good, proven powder. BG just better, IMO

DF

10- foe neighbor, Thanks.

You and Seafire got me using H-380 in the .338-06 and it does work and very well. I'm not sure there aren't newer, better powders but I can see why you guys settled on that one for that round.

I have H-414 and W-760 sitting on the shelf, but use BG more because it's just that good, not that those aren't good. BG is just hard to beat in the '06 and 7-08. Pharmseller is right (he usually is)..

So, guess I'm sorta an ole fart, sticking with H-380 in the .338-06, but I'm moving on with BG, leaving 760/414 on the shelf. Now, if things get scarce and that's what's left, I'll use it.. Until then, it's BG for those selected rounds, 760/414 cans collecting dust.

DF

Got it, and, they certainly wont spoil waiting for lean times ; ]

I seen this coming. Now that Hodgdon has a virtual monopoly on powder, they will begin to discontinue many of the old favorites. Stock up while you can.

Hodgdon is about to become Hornady 2.0!

...it's not bad enough you have to stock up on powder (along with just about everything else) because of politician-induced panic buying, now you have to worry about powder you have used for years being dumped by the manufacturer, only to have to work up loads all over again.

Big jugs are your friend...

DF

Channeling Jorge?

This is simply a decision to simplify their inventory control management.
1 powder currently marketed as 2 individual powders = 2 inventory powders on hand and distributed for no gain in total sales for that powder type.

Delete 1 SKU and simplify the inventory management to distribute a single powder.

Interesting that they did not retain their own "self named" product. Just shows the product identification is greater in the market as Winchester 760 so that was the moniker retained. Its just smart business. I would expect to see more of this as their rationalize their product lines.

The bigger then better, the tighter the sweater...

Where does one buy those larger-than-8-lb jugs??

I would just start dumping WW760 in H414 jugs. Problem solved.

He may be onto something.



DF

Jorge,

The specific primer can play a definite role in accuracy, and to a certain extent temperature resistance in powders. But how much the powder fills the case can also be a factor in all of that.

In general, pressure labs have found most rifle powders to burn most consistently when the available powder space in a case/bullet combination is just about filled, and often even more so when the charge is slightly compressed.

All three factors--case fill, and the specific primer and powder--interrelate. Extruded powders in the medium burn-rate range tend ignite easily with just about any primer, so loads may not show much improvement with a magnum primer--though they still can when the powder charge gets to be big enough. The long-time rule of thumb is to use magnum primers in cases over about .30-06 powder capacity, and I have seen some very obvious examples. My .338 Winchester Magnum, for instance, gets great accuracy with 200-grain Ballistic Silvertips and a charge of 67 grains of Reloder 15, with 3-shot groups averaging around .6 to .7 inch. But that powder charge doesn't come close to filling the case, and is only accurate when ignited with a magnum primer. With standard primers it averages more like 1.3 inches.

Supposedly slower-burning spherical powders burn most consistently with magnum primers, due to being harder to ignite due to their deterrent coatings. I have found that to be generally true even in very small cases, such as the .17 and .22 Hornets, where CCI 450s tend to result in the smallest groups with "slow" powders (for the case size) such as Li'l Gun, Alliant MP-300 and CFEBLK. Haven't found it to be as true with faster-burning sphericals such as H110, where standard or even handgun primers sometimes work as well or better. But H110 burns enough faster than those other powders that with 40-grain bullets in the .22 Hornet it's not compressed, which may be why I've found it to work best with lighter bullets, in the 30-grain range.

Got an e-mail a month or two ago from a guy who had a new .22 Hornet and was getting 2-inch groups at 100 yards with H110 and 40-grain bullets, and was wondering if the barrel might be the problem. He knew I'd had one of those Hornets in the past and wondered how mine shot. I replied that it did very well with 40-grain bullets, Li'l Gun and CCI 450s--but not H110. He got some Li'l Gun and 450s and his groups shrank to well under an inch.

Another interesting example is my .375 H&H Whitworth with 300-grain bullets. I bought it almost 30 years ago and tried IMR4350, which needed some compression to reach the typical velocity of 2550 fps. Eventually H4350 appeared and wondered if I should switch due to it being more temperature resistant than IMR4350--but then I decided to see how my old load did in real cold. Tested it at zero F. and it only lost around 30 fps, right in the same range as H4350 does in other rounds. But in the .30-06 with 165s IMR4350 lost twice as much velocity, I am guessing because that powder charge isn't compressed. The load shot just as accurately at zero, but point of impact dropped two inches at 100 yards.

Thanks John. We've had this discussion before but I was asking about the differences between the two primers mentioned. i've tried to establish rules but the only one i can come up with is there are NO rules. Specifically, my 338s for example show definite improvement in accuracy when I use F210s vice 215s which is what all manuals call for and generally (for me), if I'm loading 79gr or less, non-magnim primers seem to work best, except for my Weatherbys. Also my most accurate 375 H&H load was with H416 (76gr) and F215 primers, yet with the TSX?TTSX and RL-15, (72-74gr depending on 270 or 300 grain bullets) F-210s were more accurate. Then the other day I picked up a Browing Safari in 338 and after a lot of testing with the 25 AB (not a fan but someone gave me a BUncH of them), the accuracy winner was H-4350 (72.5) and F-215 primers.

I don’t know but two of ‘em would more than a year’s supply.....for sure.......

I really liked this reply.

made me spit some water out.

Mathman nailed that one....

Out of the park...

DF